Yes.
Also yes.
Japan to Cape Verde in about six minutes.
Slim chance it could have been Doormaker shenanigans, except that Cauldron refused to use Doormaker tactically until Golden Morning.
Alchemical Solutions [Worm/Exalted] Thread 23: We Wonder Where Who Wanders When Watchers Wane
- Thread starter Gromweld
- Start date
Japan to Cape Verde in about six minutes.
Slim chance it could have been Doormaker shenanigans, except that Cauldron refused to use Doormaker tactically until Golden Morning.
That reads (potentially) to me as just having more personal motes to get more Charms. Which would normally be fine, but we're currently quite pressed for XP, and thus would likely have...fairly major concerns with actually purchasing the extra Charms. It could also be that Grom just throws in an extra Charm or 2, but even then...We'd also have little control over what the extra Charms actually are - we can choose the role, but that's it - as long as we chose a role that a Parahuman power meshed with fine, that'd almost certainly be better.
Which just reinforces my point - that we'll have quite some time before we've got access to Weaving Engines on anyone other than EoA.
Why not both? She uses her flight momentum a lot in her canon fight with Levi.
But travel time does not necessarily mean combat time.
Primordials. There's degrees of wakefulness involved, from what happened to Sacheverell's complete shutdown to Oramus's dreaming fugue acting on his passive impulses and over here, Autochton's limited, focused attention.
Look at his awareness level:
-He's paying attention to a single point in space in Nowhere.
-His lowest ex-machina are active(these would be approximately on the scale of individual nerve and muscle cells each) and some are moving at his direction instead of being preoccupied with survival.
-He is designing and inventing, but as the Primordial of Innovation and Technology, this would be closer to something like heartbeats for him.
So on the below scale:
-Awake <- Resources would run out far more rapidly and probably kills him
-Sleepwalking <- In this state when we deliver an Alchemical
-Lucid Dreaming <- In this state while the Cradle stays open
-Dreaming
-Comatose/Hibernating <- In this state, resources would run out the slowest, but Autochton will begin suffering degeneration of unmaintained functions. Autochtonia will become a LOT less survivable.
-Dying <- We will notice this. Iris will not survive it unchanged.
Noting that if we send Autochton a Tinker shard he'd fill it with Essence based designs as well. This is one thing he's very good at.
It also probably would bridge the gap between Tinkertech's "Built in a day, continuously refined, lasts about a day of active use" versus, Essencetech's "Built over nine months, static after production, lasts until sufficient dedicated force is applied" in some way, we have no way to know without sending a Tinker over.
This is one thing that the books aren't very consistent about, since you can hit 3 dots off about a modern residential city block's worth of population and a medium sized modern city is already 5. No idea how @Gromweld intends to deal with it until we start on the process either, but based on his statements, this is intended to be a long term means to stave off Autochton's degeneration.
I do want to consider efficiency losses, would it be more efficient to partition the prayers out to each part of his soul hierarchy and then have each of those parts funnel the Essence upwards? Mechanically yes, a hundred exmachina with Cult 3 funneling the regain to their progenitor, who funnels it to their progenitor, who funnels it to Autochton should massively increase yields.
We know a few things about the whole thing:
-Lisa never knew Taylor before and after conversion. Her shard has interpreted HumanTaylor and AlchemicalTaylor as two modes of the same being. While AlchemicalTaylor cannot be measured directly, indirect measurements correspond to HumanTaylor
-Lisa knew Marrow before conversion. Her shard has interpreted the divergences and produced the following results:
--C53Marrow(readable) is not the same being as AlchemicalVajra(unreadable), as indirect measurements do not match.
--C53Marrow(readable) do not match the observed elements of HumanSirkalla(readable).
--AlchemicalVajra's(unreadable) indirect measurements match the observed elements of HumanSirkalla(readable)
-Lisa then interpreted this information and formed an incorrect conclusion, that C53Marrow is dead and that AlchemicalVajra is a very good fake.
-Based on her shard, incorrect information is processed as true if the host believes it, Lisa then misinterprets everything in that light because a fundamental base of her logic is wrong.
Theory: This is because FPoP is a memory wiped Case 53. She has lost her memories, and is arguably, not the same person as Marrow or Sirkalla, but a synthesis of both. She exhibits cultural mannerisms and speech patterns which she could not have as Marrow.
Theory: Presented with HumanSaki, who is consistent across both incarnations, Lisa would arrive at one of the two conclusions:
-WoRI is a far superior fake that defeats all her analysis, as she has powers designed specifically for that.
--This reaffirms that Lisa is super smart and always knows better, and is thus her natural preference. It will probably annoy more people
-WoRI is Saki, and she is wrong about FPoP, attempt to acquire information about the discrepancy.
--This goes against one of Lisa's main drives(to be the most correct person in the room), but engages her desire to Know More.
---Which means Lisa will start digging into why FPoP has a different set of memories going in. Which means Lisa will start digging into Cauldron. Which means her big mouth is going to start working eventually.
!!Fun!! down both routes.
Pretty big step actually, since the hardest part of a full conversion is the brainmeats interface. A barely aware mind with no built in instincts is hardly that.
Seems like, but at the same time note that SV in general is very moralistic and judgmental. And that this is well...see Saki's intimacies. This is entirely in line with the type of person she believes Taylor to be.
That was kind of completely unrelated to why we're doing the nanites, and thus missing the point.
Also that we have this giant list of "things we could do on our own"...which we never do because there's a more optimal way to do it.
THIS is the main reason to do it.
As the creations go:
Soulgem:
-Assembly: Approval. Advances Assembly goals, which means putting Riley to good use.
-Public: Doubt. Rescue of Bonesaw appears in a more suspect light, because it's used to further our own agenda.
-Conclusion: Soulgem is a bad combo with Momchemical approach, as it looks like she replaced one kind of crazy parental figure with another. Ambivalent with the other two.
Nanites:
-Assembly: Approval. Advances the public good, which means putting Riley to good use. Also furthers Assembly goals indirectly by making redemption plots more believable.
-Public: Approval. Bonesaw is working to make amends for the harm she has caused, just like the cape formerly known as Crawler.
-Conclusion: Nanites is the most flexible with the Bonesaw approach. Any of the three can be employed effectively, whether leaving handling up to Saki who sees firsthand her making up for the harm done, being a substitute parental figure instilling positive morals(aka justifying Riley raising Compassion back from where Jack damaged it), or as a parole officer supervising her corrective work.
Weaverbots:
-Assembly: Cautious Approval. Makes the Assembly more capable of doing things, but it's mostly Weaver's personal power. Thus it descends from her trust.
-Public: Doubt. Looks like a bloody terrifying power grab to be honest.
-Conclusion: Risks with all the approaches, as the action doesn't match the message with the Penitent(corrective redemption means making your savior more powerful?), looks disturbing to the public with Momchemical, and basically treats her as a tool with passive handling(Noting that this is likely to backfire with Saki, negative intimacy for Bonesaw will conflict with Compassion)
Charm:
-Assembly: Cautious Approal. See Weaverbots.
-Public: Sees nothing.
-Conclusion: Benefits to any of the three approaches, as the general public silence means public opinion doesn't sway much.
If people believed top experts we probably wouldn't be in RL OR Wormverse political situations.
Not based on how the unaging was described. The nanites will repair damage to the body. In the absence of physical damage, they will work on the ravages of disease and age, gradually unaging the candidate(and for teenagers, there goes the acne). This probably would be a slow process to make everyone in their prime..
Length greatly exceeds stunt caps. 60 words I believe.
Not a problem for Alexandria though? She's indestructible, and given high altitude or even ballistic flight(she's not as vulnerable to suffocation as fanon would have it, since she still has superhuman strength and lung capacity to match if she knows to prepare beforehand), the sonic boom for a human sized projectile will be fairly limited even at hypersonic velocities.
- Location
- Illinois
- Pronouns
- Ze/Zer/Zem
Could you elaborate on what you mean here? I just want to make sure there are no misunderstandings, and over the internet I only have the text to go off of (which contains a minuscule amount of the information conveyed using speech).
Scify
It always starts with a lighthouse.
-- Her power actively provides false information when Taylor activates Loom Server Migration as part of IAT.
Katsuragi
The 1%
I didn't say it does? Just that she has the capability of Alpha striking someone at mach 113. Even if she's incapable of "fighting" at that speed or reaching that speed without room to speed up, that doesn't mean she can't enter the fight via invulnerable facecheck at mach 113, and then do so again if she can pull back and do it again.
Pretty sure Saki is capable of more nuance than a lot of people are giving her credit for.
She may be traumatised, but she isn't stupid; look at her PRT Intimacy.
You've obviously missed my point then. I'm saying that might take time to get to max speed, and distance - neither of which she really has in combat (if it takes, say 3 mins to accelerate to max - she's probably crossed the US at that speed - she'd have to leave, and then come back, or just 'travel around the world' for a full wind up. Likely exaggeration, but that was my point). And we see her facecheck Levi in canon - and no way is she going even close to that fast. Add on that she's unlikely to be able to 'aim' at that speed (she'd have the reaction, but I doubt she'd have the manoeuvrability at top speed)?
Would giving case 53 souls help or hurt them in any way? Because if it helps we might be able to angle the Soul gem injector towards being the beginning steps of us trying to find a non-limited method helping them. It would also counter the fact that it would be impossible to hide that it s their as they stand out anyways and possibly make spinning it to the public easier
Possibly he might be able to even come up things that merge essence based technology with earth tinkertech, to produce something better than either is alone?
Has no one actually told Lisa that Prayer recovered her memories? Would seem like the obvious thing to happen/do?
Yeah. I would assume when it comes the pure robot part, Taylor could do that.
Not really. I simply believe that having two or more Taylors would allow Philadelphia to recover faster, which could also be credited to Bonesaws help, giving her the same kind of boost of "she is doing good and undoing harm she has caused". Nor do I believe that a robot is in any way more disturbing than nanites (if anything, the opposite). The nanites will also be in testing/red tape for a long while before they would be approved for public use (people won't easily trust Bonesaws creations for quite some time, and will suspect the nanites of having hidden boobytraps or programming or such), whereas 2nd Taylor could probably be approved pretty fast, giving something obviously good to the people of Philadelphia from Riley much faster. And Wyld could verify the proto-brain easily.
If people believed top experts we probably wouldn't be in RL OR Wormverse political situations.
Dragon is well enough respected to qualify (she is a top hero in addition to being an expert), and PRT has PR for this kind of reason. Humans in wormverse would also surely be used to needing PRT/Parahuman guidance when it comes to parahuman tinkertech and such.
It won't be instant, but the change is massive enough that you could easily argue (and no doubt there will be those who will do so) that Bonesaws nanites reprogram the brain to turn each person into something similar to a Simurgh-bomb.
Won't heal them unfortunately. To fix C53s would require altering the shards.
RoninSword
Sky God
- Location
- Canada
And to alter the shards, we need to give Iris a Cauldron vial or a Case 53 corpse.
Interlude: Accord
Gromweld
Learning By Mistake
Interlude: Accord
(Credit to @Slamu for most of this!)
(Credit to @Slamu for most of this!)
***
Accord sat in his office. Like many things recently, it grated on a level very few people could comprehend. Shortly after the Slaughterhouse Nine's defeat, he had been "housed" near the Camden PRT headquarters in an apartment block with a high number of residents that worked for the PRT in some capacity. That a number of the newly-arrived PRT troop transfers were quartered surrounding his own residence was not lost on him.
His residence was his sanctuary. The office was covered in sound-proofing tiles, the internet was almost acceptably reliable and swift, the furniture had been adjusted to his ergonomics. What he was to the PRT right now was in the air; in their eyes he was a defector twice over, former-king of an illicit empire, refugee to an S-class event that refused to leave. There were many that wished to see him imprisoned or worse. Their opinions mattered not at all.
It had been years since he had lived with this level of discomfort. The asymmetry that others so casually, easily overlooked was as sandpaper in his eyes. The irregular traffic on the road outside due to broken signal lights, the vibrations of other residents moving about elsewhere on this floor, the smell garlic wafting in from somewhere through the vents; a month ago, any one of those offenses would have been resolved by handing it off to an assistant to have the problem removed. It would have been done quickly, quietly, efficiently, and with a minimum of fuss.
Then was not now. He had some still loyal to him, though not as loyal as they may have once been. He had been a man of wealth and power, obeyed without question. Even the obedience was gone now. He'd seen it in the questioning looks they thought were hidden, the minute hesitation in accepting orders. The Ambassadors, those that remained to him, could contemplate existence without him, contemplate rebellion against him. A month ago, they would be chastised or removed. Now he tolerated it as he tolerated the minutely misaligned tile, the scuff mark on the edge of the counter, the smell of 2B's latest kitchen disaster. He even tolerated the unnerving lack of proper security, knowing the Teeth would seek him out soon. He tolerated this not because he must, nor because he had no other alternative.
He was making progress.
The grand plan, for which he had thrown away a comfortable, accommodating career with the financial watchdogs to accomplish, had been wrecked by the arrival of Autochthon's agents. His first, second, and third impulses had been to craft foolproof methods to remove them from the board, but he could not devise, calculate, and accommodate in a vacuum; he had spent considerable resources and manpower to accumulate information on these new variables.
His plan to properly exact payment from Saint and the Dragonslayers needed revising. Later.
But despite the mercenary's insult, despite the assimilation of the Case 53 leadership, despite Coil's treachery, these agents of Order heeded him, bringing talents to the table that shaved years off his revised timeline. They were creatures of Logic, and recognized his talents as he recognized theirs.
There was only one logical conclusion: he would become an agent of Order. A plan two hundred thirty seven pages long sat on his filing cabinet with the latest draft of how he would become the ideal candidate, if not for the Assembly being crafted by Enduring Order Administrator, then the next.
He had vision. The Soulsteel acknowledged that. He had utility. The Adamant understood this. He would have success. They all would see.
To that end, he exercised his self-control.
Section 3e (yellow tab) detailed a version of Administrator's regimen to improve his power of self-denial. It had only required two revisions to properly accommodate her "suggestions" to reign in his more destructive intrusive thoughts, but the degree of insight into his thought patterns had - more than once - caused him to consider whether she had gained telepathic capabilities with her most recent upgrade.
Since her intervention Accord had written seven different plans to remodel his apartment in some fashion, ranging from simply making it more bearable to live in, to recreating the extensive defensive mechanisms he had employed in his former place of residence. None of them were implemented, merely outlined as thought exercises and kept in his cabinets. Enduring Order Administrator would be receptive to his requests, he was sure, were he to couch them in the correct terminology. An afternoon using her Secondary Telefactor Assembly would yield Perfect environs for him to do his work in. A morning with the use of her construction drones would allow him to repel an armed assault by four of the largest local gangs. The itch to call her and request such a thing was almost overpowering at times.
The regimen already showed some modest results; a month ago, it would not have been almost.
He was not done yet, not by a long shot, but he noticed a subtle shift in how he treated others. One afternoon a frisbee had struck one of the windows of his apartment, startling him. Rather than ordering one of his Ambassadors to have the children killed and their bodies quietly disposed of, he had spent the afternoon investigating the culprits and written a schedule of academic activities that would make them - or any other lower-income youth - productive citizens with 1.9% probability of suicide due to a meaningless marriage or dead-end job before they were thirty-eight. He then had one of the Ambassadors deliver the instructions to their guardians, along with the required veiled threats about disturbing the recluse at the end of the hall.
After a long period of consideration, he had sent the results of his first impulse - a fifty six step program of how to make their demise look like an accident - to Enduring Order Administrator's adjunct as a demonstration of his intent to, in the vernacular, "play nice."
Lizardtail reported that the families involved were relocated within thirty six hours.
He was one of Enduring Order Administrator's most valuable assets, so she would accommodate him in such a simple request if he made it. But an Orichalcum-caste worked for the betterment of their society; he could endure the present circumstances for now. If he caved in for his own sake, indulged in his need for exacting Order while the reconstruction of Camden was underway, it would be a failure on his part.
He would never tolerate failure.
When Camden was not simply reconstructed as it was before the Nine attacked, but was economically par with the greater Philadelphia area, then - and only then - would he permit himself to upgrade his living conditions.
After that... perhaps a new revision of the Saint plan, as a treat.
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Wow. We really pushed his buttons didn't we?
Well, Accord would get my vote over GU, if it came to that.
sainen
Elder Lich
I'd rather scrap the Orihalcum(Resources 5 of magical materials) than have either of them.
but I'd vote Armsmaster, Miss Militia, Piggot, or even Lustrum over those two.
Oh it would take her some time, but as far as reaction speed goes? Alexandria is THE Flying Brick. As well as the ONLY one that also got super senses/super thinking/super brain as part and parcel of her power. Her flight is comparable to Legend's (when not attempting to go FTL) and her invulnerability is second only to The Siberian, who is basically lesser Sting as a projection. If she can accelerate to those speeds, I don't find it likely that her Thinker power (the one she got from an unrestricted, unbalanced, shard) can't keep up. At least, for the most part. So, maybe not Mach 113 body slams, but Mach 25? Easy. Now as to her not doing it in canon? Yeah, she didn't, because 1. Only an Endbringer would even warrant that sort of response and 2. She has to modulate her strength and the force of her blows so that she isn't causing more damage just by collateral.
On another note, loved the Accord interlude. You keep it up Accord, I'm rooting for ya.
Graypairofsocks
What is Grammar?
- Location
- earth
I thought Nukes in Exalted were arbitrary damage.
I would say we could derive her str atribute from what she was shown to lift, but there are a few problems with that:
The lifting table in exalted doesn't go past 20 total Str & athletics (at which point you can lift 4500 pounds), and that table doesn't scale smoothly so we can't deduce it for higher numbers.
If it did scale smoothly past that point it wouldn't make sense because of stuff like Mt Mostath (mountain sized mammoth thingy) has str 50, and that means it wouldn't be able to move something weighing much less than itself.
We could try to scale her str off of mount mostath (by assuming it could lift its own weight), but we don't actually know how much Mt mostath weighs.
We don't know how big mount mostath is either, so we can't try to find its weight by comparing it to mountains in real life.
Interestingly we do know that mount mostath stepping on you deals 100 levels (not dice) of aggravated damage, but that probably isn't useful here.
wingnut2292
<Verified Sugar Addict>
- Location
- Milwaukee Metro
Huh... Accord is improving. I hope psychotherapy is a part of the plan at some point. But wow, go Accord. We'll make you a half-way normal person yet.
Color me interisted.
Color me interisted.
That...was never part of my post:
Far more a case of if she's actually physically capable, than if she could see and react fast enough.
You compare her flight speed to Legends - I don't think she compares. Legend doesn't go FTL - he approaches light speed, but he doesn't want to get too close because it slows down his thought processes - i.e. Khonsu. Of course, 'approaching' light speed is still stupidly fast - even a measly 0.1% of light speed is 10x faster than Alexandra. He also shows a lot greater ability to accelerate (and thus dodge) in any direction.
Oh, I don't dispute Mach 25 as a very liable possibility. But there's a massive difference between Mach 113 and Mach 25.
Except one of the only times we see her fight in canon is against Levi - where she doesn't do that. She has a wind up charge, but from memory she doesn't even make a sonic boom from her flight.
(I'll try and hunt down 'her' fighting against Scion - definitely don't remember anything like that there either).
Did you just miss the second part? Where I said exactly why she doesn't? Because anything that might hurt them, is also liable to cause massive damage to everyone around them, and the infrastructure, and probably most people's eardrums which means a bunch of people die because no Endbringer is just gonna sit there when a human is leaving themselves so delightfully open.
But you know what? If that doesn't work for you, let's see which Endbringer she could even use this against. Behemoth, whose a dynakinetic, so that's a no go. Leviathan, whose likely fast enough to get out of the way unless he's distracted, which means she'd get a lot of people killed to get in one big, and overall useless, punch. And the Simurgh. I hope I don't have to explain why this one would be pointless.
As for the other Endbringers? One copies powers, one warps areas while making multiple copies of himself, and one teleports and has a time dilation field similar to Behemoth's kill aura IIRC. I wasn't kidding when I said nothing likely warranted it. Maybe I should have added: nothing that could warrant it is likely to be damaged by it. At least not as much as everyone else.
Finally, the Mach 25 thing was because people were calculating her at Mach 2. Which, admittedly, is where she probably keeps her speed. I was just trying to say that she can go higher, and that she can probably react fast enough to move when she needs to. Heck, considering her perfect memory and other connected Thinker powers, she could probably pull a Numberman and calculate when she needs to move and do it in such a way that coincides with when she wants to make an attack even if she can't react fast enough (which I doubt).
This I can agree with.
No, hence why I mentioned Scion (which she again didn't do, as far as I can find). (Also, it'd be more accurate to say that the second was the entire reason she didn't do it - not totally accurate, but more accurate. Hence why I responded to only the first point - it isn't really an argument. The second is though, yes).
This is what I meant by an inability to 'aim' (more the first than the second, since Ziz). Nothing to do with reaction speed.
By this logic, she should never show up to an EB fight except against Levi (who's the only one who can kill her) and Ziz. I believe that she punches Behemoth fine (yes, dynakinetic - but I believe it only uses that offensively, or possibly with the occasional redirect. There's certainly plenty of energy attacks thrown at it in canon, and I don't remember any real issues with that), Khonsu's not an AoE around itself like Behemoth's kill aura - it's 5? separate fields that move around. They can be dodged, and Alexandria would be able to survive in them (likely not mentally fine, unlike Legend, but should be physically fine). Tohu copies powers - but that's no reason to not have Alexandria full body check it (it might be a good reason to not have her at the fight - but considering one of Tohu's copies in canon was Eidolon? They were definitely not concerned with that, at least in the early fights). Bohu didn't have multiple copies - one giant, immobile tower - actually perfect for this sort of wind up punch, since there's no concerns about collateral (or missing).
Don't disagree - but having a muck around myself, even Mach 25, there's still a very large energy difference between that and a nuke (even with a very rough approximation of her 'punch' energy). Of course, actual physics isn't the best thing to utilise for Exalted, Parahumans or game mechanics, but it's pretty much all we've got to go on other than arbitrary guesses essentially.
Random asides: Because I apparently have nothing better to do (despite having an exam tomorrow), did a quick bit of research on sonic booms. And, depending on what units NASA is using (psi or psf - they just have pounds 
. Pseudo edit: Found the bit that says its psf earlier.) even Mach 25 is potentially survivable without damage to eardrums (though 'damage' is likely to be a tad subjective here - I'd guess no permanent damage, and plenty of temporary deafness/disorientation) - or probably fatal for even just Mach 2.
Now, this is based on stuff for aircraft at altitude (neither of which really fit), but should give an idea. Even pretty much the most conservative (treating her like the most aerodynamic aircraft), at ~2 m above the ground and 1.8 m long gives ~220 psi at Mach 2 and ~430 at Mach 25 (as opposed to ~32000 and ~62500 psf respectively). For reference, NASA has "Damage to eardrums can be expected when overpressures reach 720 lb. Overpressures of 2160 lb would have to be generated to produce lung damage."
Of course, psf, so...
Treating her as having a much better 'shape' (because she likely would, not having the larger area of an actual aircraft) and at a greater height, Mach 2 is...potentially survivable. But that's quite an extreme assumption, mathematically (and I doubt the equations would really hold at such low altitudes). But just a random tangent. Sources: NASA Armstrong Fact Sheet: Sonic Booms, http://www.pdas.com/refs/tp1122.pdf. Edit: Also couldn't account for distance.
Edit: Also noticed this on NASA's page: Increasing speeds above Mach 1.3 results in only small changes in shock wave strength.
Also: Sonic booms produced by aircraft flying supersonic at altitudes of less than 100 feet, creating between 20 and 144 lb overpressure, have been experienced by humans without injury.
. Pseudo edit: Found the bit that says its psf earlier.) even Mach 25 is potentially survivable without damage to eardrums (though 'damage' is likely to be a tad subjective here - I'd guess no permanent damage, and plenty of temporary deafness/disorientation) - or probably fatal for even just Mach 2.Now, this is based on stuff for aircraft at altitude (neither of which really fit), but should give an idea. Even pretty much the most conservative (treating her like the most aerodynamic aircraft), at ~2 m above the ground and 1.8 m long gives ~220 psi at Mach 2 and ~430 at Mach 25 (as opposed to ~32000 and ~62500 psf respectively). For reference, NASA has "Damage to eardrums can be expected when overpressures reach 720 lb. Overpressures of 2160 lb would have to be generated to produce lung damage."
Of course, psf, so...
Treating her as having a much better 'shape' (because she likely would, not having the larger area of an actual aircraft) and at a greater height, Mach 2 is...potentially survivable. But that's quite an extreme assumption, mathematically (and I doubt the equations would really hold at such low altitudes). But just a random tangent. Sources: NASA Armstrong Fact Sheet: Sonic Booms, http://www.pdas.com/refs/tp1122.pdf. Edit: Also couldn't account for distance.
Edit: Also noticed this on NASA's page: Increasing speeds above Mach 1.3 results in only small changes in shock wave strength.
Also: Sonic booms produced by aircraft flying supersonic at altitudes of less than 100 feet, creating between 20 and 144 lb overpressure, have been experienced by humans without injury.
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There are multiple reasons why she still shows up for Behemoth and the others. But the simplest? They sandbag. A lot. Behemoth for instance, iirc, will redirect at least some of what he 'sees' (not what he actually sees, but what one would reasonably deduce his eyes would notice) when he could do far more. The other reasons include: she's a Triumvirate member, morale, possibility to save lives, invulnerable (Leviathan hasn't killed her in a decade, and I think the only reason Taylor did is because she got lucky. She wasn't expecting the bugs to coat her lungs, and water wouldn't stay in her lungs that way outside Leviathan's area of effect. She's immune to the other two (all three technically) unless they stop sandbagging), no recordings so she needs to be there to get all the info she can about what works and what doesn't (for Cauldron if nothing else). There are probably more, but I'm tired. I agree with everything else, mostly just wanted to make sure nobody left with incorrect information on a characters capabilities.This I can agree with.
No, hence why I mentioned Scion (which she again didn't do, as far as I can find). (Also, it'd be more accurate to say that the second was the entire reason she didn't do it - not totally accurate, but more accurate. Hence why I responded to only the first point - it isn't really an argument. The second is though, yes).
This is what I meant by an inability to 'aim' (more the first than the second, since Ziz). Nothing to do with reaction speed.
By this logic, she should never show up to an EB fight except against Levi (who's the only one who can kill her) and Ziz. I believe that she punches Behemoth fine (yes, dynakinetic - but I believe it only uses that offensively, or possibly with the occasional redirect. There's certainly plenty of energy attacks thrown at it in canon, and I don't remember any real issues with that), Khonsu's not an AoE around itself like Behemoth's kill aura - it's 5? separate fields that move around. They can be dodged, and Alexandria would be able to survive in them (likely not mentally fine, unlike Legend, but should be physically fine). Tohu copies powers - but that's no reason to not have Alexandria full body check it (it might be a good reason to not have her at the fight - but considering one of Tohu's copies in canon was Eidolon? They were definitely not concerned with that, at least in the early fights). Bohu didn't have multiple copies - one giant, immobile tower - actually perfect for this sort of wind up punch, since there's no concerns about collateral (or missing).
Don't disagree - but having a muck around myself, even Mach 25, there's still a very large energy difference between that and a nuke (even with a very rough approximation of her 'punch' energy). Of course, actual physics isn't the best thing to utilise for Exalted, Parahumans or game mechanics, but it's pretty much all we've got to go on other than arbitrary guesses essentially.
Random asides: Because I apparently have nothing better to do (despite having an exam tomorrow), did a quick bit of research on sonic booms. And, depending on what units NASA is using (psi or psf - they just have pounds
Now, this is based on stuff for aircraft at altitude (neither of which really fit), but should give an idea. Even pretty much the most conservative (treating her like the most aerodynamic aircraft), at ~2 m above the ground and 1.8 m long gives ~220 psi at Mach 2 and ~430 at Mach 25 (as opposed to ~32000 and ~62500 psf respectively). For reference, NASA has "Damage to eardrums can be expected when overpressures reach 720 lb. Overpressures of 2160 lb would have to be generated to produce lung damage."
Of course, psf, so...
Treating her as having a much better 'shape' (because she likely would, not having the larger area of an actual aircraft) and at a greater height, Mach 2 is...potentially survivable. But that's quite an extreme assumption, mathematically (and I doubt the equations would really hold at such low altitudes). But just a random tangent. Sources: NASA Armstrong Fact Sheet: Sonic Booms, http://www.pdas.com/refs/tp1122.pdf. Edit: Also couldn't account for distance.
Edit: Also noticed this on NASA's page: Increasing speeds above Mach 1.3 results in only small changes in shock wave strength.
Also: Sonic booms produced by aircraft flying supersonic at altitudes of less than 100 feet, creating between 20 and 144 lb overpressure, have been experienced by humans without injury.
Oh, and in that spirit, Bohu does make smaller copies of himself in his terrain. He also layers the entire area with traps straight out of a Tinkers mind. Other then that, I think we're in agreement. It was a pleasure debating with you. I learned something and I hope you did too. For anyone that wants to fact check powers or abilities, the Worm feats thread has everything you need for canonical accuracy (well, mostly). Just type "worm feats thread" into google, it should be the first thing to pop up.
*Looks at the discussion of One Alexandria At Sufficient Velocity in bewilderment*
I'm not really sure how that's relevant.
Power is nice, but we're picking exaltation candidates by suitability for the caste and desire to see more of them. The rest is pretty flexible with the right charms.
And then couple that with both of them having high Compassion, factor in Saki's own low Conviction...she's not going to have a good time coming to terms with that, but it's part of what makes her respect Taylor to begin with.
We're keeping quiet on that. Making Lisa more happy at the risk of throwing a lit match into a fuel reservoir isn't worth it.
Expertise is respected, but only when it agrees with, or does not conflict with preconceived notions. That's why we have App5+ Alchemicals rather than an Assembly of ultra skilled Colins.
Persuasion and image are far bigger than actual competency per unit of effort.
I'm not really sure how that's relevant.
Power is nice, but we're picking exaltation candidates by suitability for the caste and desire to see more of them. The rest is pretty flexible with the right charms.
That Taylor acting to rehabilitate Bonesaw as a victim is not an unexpected outcome for Saki. It means two of her intimacies are going to be in contradiction, but Taylor's made a big deal of turning villains away from a life of crime.
And then couple that with both of them having high Compassion, factor in Saki's own low Conviction...she's not going to have a good time coming to terms with that, but it's part of what makes her respect Taylor to begin with.
Basically.
Well, if you are intending to start exposing Cauldron to the world, sure.
We're keeping quiet on that. Making Lisa more happy at the risk of throwing a lit match into a fuel reservoir isn't worth it.
Given how these things work, having multiple Taylors restoring order would be credited to...Taylor. It's not like it's anything she couldn't do before(as with the nanites, the argument that we could do it without Bonesaw stands, we're exalts, we can do a shitload). It's just an elaboration on the previous drones.
You mean the same wormverse which has been known to ignore the advice of Dragon, directly countermanding her in fact. Which then ignored Glenn and eventually forced his hand to override authority.
Expertise is respected, but only when it agrees with, or does not conflict with preconceived notions. That's why we have App5+ Alchemicals rather than an Assembly of ultra skilled Colins.
Persuasion and image are far bigger than actual competency per unit of effort.
Oh yeah, I was operating under the assumption that they were still jobbing to some extend. Otherwise? Unless we've got a much better equipped Assembly, everything's likely to go FUBAR anyway.
Someone said that Alexandria filled a role that no one else on the Assembly did (despite Prayer), then things spiralled (specifically, I was sort of curious to know how dangerous a sonic boom actually was).
- Location
- Illinois
- Pronouns
- Ze/Zer/Zem
Thank you for that. That explanation explained everything I wanted to know.
Is three dots low for a virtue? I thought 3 was reasonably high without being character defining.