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Age of Ice and Blood: A Pathfinder System Heroic Fantasy Quest

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DragonParadox said:
Order in this case is not so much an institutional thing as it is a reflection of your inner values. You can be a member of an Order without ever inducting another soul. At level 2 you really do not have that much use of those abilities and I would really prefer for the order to be born of your choices and not just mechanical fiat

That said if you guys really want an order for the mechanics I can work with that, but you should keep in mind that mechanics inform character. It may well be that what order you choose will end up self-reinforcing.
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I want the order for mechanics and fluff, actually. I think I can make this blend into how Sir Verely lost his faith in those who claim to lead the fight for Christendom, if that isn't presumptuous of me.
 
DragonParadox said:
That said if you guys really want an order for the mechanics I can work with that, but you should keep in mind that mechanics inform character. It may well be that what order you choose will end up self-reinforcing.
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By Level 2, do we already have access to the mechanics associated with the Orders? Kinda at work so I can't even get into the SRD sites.
 
Crake said:
By Level 2, do we already have access to the mechanics associated with the Orders? Kinda at work so I can't even get into the SRD sites.
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You start with access to them. Order impacts Challenge, starting skills, and various other aspects at a mechanical level. It also heavily informs character.
 
Snowfire said:
You start with access to them. Order impacts Challenge, starting skills, and various other aspects at a mechanical level. It also heavily informs character.
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I agree having an initial order selected is important. It's just the details I guess that determines how we go about deciding on that.

If it's mechanically important for most things involved with the class, I'd say we'd need to have one to start. And I also feel "self reinforcing" basically determining it as being "locked in" is somewhat inaccurate, since we could do the ASWAH way and customize later on.
 
Snowfire said:
I want the order for mechanics and fluff, actually. I think I can make this blend into how Sir Verely lost his faith in those who claim to lead the fight for Christendom, if that isn't presumptuous of me.
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I mean sure, that feels reasonable if you guys want to vote for it. He is your main character, if something gets voted, even background as long as it is non-contradictory with what has been written so far you can go with it.

To me personally it would feel more engaging to have the order develop on screen fully, but that is not my choice as GM
 
The first info tab is up with what little you know about the ship as well as the number of your retainers. I did not really have a place to put a number in the chapter. They are all Warriors because they are not what you would call highly trained, but they are all also level 2 because they are veterans.
 
[X] Take the lead and try to calm the spirits of the crew
-[X] Use your rank as an ordained knight and command your men at arms to retain order among the ship. Reassure the men that if we could survive the disastrous affair that was the Fifth Crusade, we can easily survive whatever tribulations may come our way.

What do y'all think of this? Use a combination of our rank among those for whom that matters and a sense of shared struggle for those for whom it doesn't.
 
[X] My Body Was To Guard the Servants of the Lord
-[X] Point Buy: STR 12, DEX 13, CON 13, INT 12, WIS 10, CHA 16 (14 +2 racial)
-[X] Archetypes: Courtly Knight, Honor Guard
-[X] Order: Order of the Dragon
-[X] Feats: Combat Reflexes, Noble Scion of War
-[X] Traits: Influence(Diplomacy), Cooperative Combatant
-[X] Skill Ranks (12): 2 Diplomacy, 2 Handle Animal, 2 Intimidate, 2 Perception, 1 Ride, 2 Sense Motive, 1 Survival
--[X] Final skill bonuses: Diplomacy +10, Handle Animal +8, Intimidate +9, Knowledge (Nobility) +3, Perception +5(+7 when adjacent to Mount), Ride +5, Sense Motive +6 (+8 when adjacent to Mount), Survival +4 (+5 when to provide food and water for his allies or to protect his allies from harsh weather)
-[X] Mount: Horse! (Bodyguard Companion Archetype)
-[X] Order Ability: Aid Allies

Now for the fluff that drove this so hard.

My intent here builds off of what @DragonParadox has already given us, with the idea that part of what so disgusted Sir Verely and indeed broke his faith in Christendom was how those meant to lead it would abandon their own for conversation or peace with those he'd been taught were ungodly. They would betray the cause that so many had died for, and do so seemingly without care. This slams hard into the core tenets of Order of the Dragon, and the build presented here only makes it worse because the combination of social skills and social awareness via a not-terrible Sense Motive bonus meant he'd probably be able to see the corruption and self-service in those 'Chosen By God' to lead the failed Crusade.

This can also be shown in his training, in that he was never one who took a path towards singular glory. All of his martial training was focused towards protecting his comrades on the battlefield, and this would make the betrayal of their sacrifices cut all the deeper.

Thoughts? Opinions? Declarations of my insanity (as if I needed more of those)? All are welcome.
Not doing the social voting (yet) but I like the options from @Crake and @Raichu1972.
 
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The problem with usurping authority from the Captain is we don't know what he's keeping in the ship below-deck, we don't know what baggage he or the rest of the crew have. It's not just a matter of it being risky to jump into a guaranteed partnership, but also that we could needlessly make enemies if we go on a power trip from the outset rather than determine if we need to take greater command authority.

A Captain's ship is his kingdom, his word is law while on it. Undermining that lightly will not go over well with sailors. He lends legitimacy (and we lend muscle).
 
Snowfire said:
[X] My Body Was To Guard the Servants of the Lord
-[X] Point Buy: STR 12, DEX 13, CON 13, INT 12, WIS 10, CHA 16 (14 +2 racial)
-[X] Archetypes: Courtly Knight, Honor Guard
-[X] Order: Order of the Dragon
-[X] Feats: Combat Reflexes, Bodyguard
-[X] Traits: Helpful, Noble Scion of War
-[X] Skill Ranks (12): 2 Diplomacy, 2 Handle Animal, 2 Intimidate, 2 Perception, 1 Ride, 2 Sense Motive, 1 Survival
--[X] Final skill bonuses: Diplomacy +9, Handle Animal +8, Intimidate +9, Knowledge (Nobility) +3, Perception +5(+7 when adjacent to Mount), Ride +5, Sense Motive +6 (+8 when adjacent to Mount), Survival +4 (+5 when to provide food and water for his allies or to protect his allies from harsh weather)
-[X] Mount: Horse! (Bodyguard Companion Archetype)
-[X] Order Ability: Aid Allies

Now for the fluff that drove this so hard.

My intent here builds off of what @DragonParadox has already given us, with the idea that part of what so disgusted Sir Verely and indeed broke his faith in Christendom was how those meant to lead it would abandon their own for conversation or peace with those he'd been taught were ungodly. They would betray the cause that so many had died for, and do so seemingly without care. This slams hard into the core tenets of Order of the Dragon, and the build presented here only makes it worse because the combination of social skills and social awareness via a not-terrible Sense Motive bonus meant he'd probably be able to see the corruption and self-service in those 'Chosen By God' to lead the failed Crusade.

This can also be shown in his training, in that he was never one who took a path towards singular glory. All of his martial training was focused towards protecting his comrades on the battlefield, and this would make the betrayal of their sacrifices cut all the deeper.

I'm aware that the Honor Guard archetype gives Bodyguard as a bonus feat at level 3, but I also don't really care. If DP is generous to grant us a bonus feat in exchange for it, that's his call. I won't be asking for one.

Thoughts? Opinions? Declarations of my insanity (as if I needed more of those)? All are welcome.
Not doing the social voting (yet) but I like the options from @Crake and @Raichu1972.
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I don't know too much about Pathfinder builds (my only experience being playing Kingmaker and the Wrath of the Righteous beta games), but the archetype of a team player bodyguard style knight seems like a nice one.
 
Just to make clear a little of what was in the update, since it was admittedly more inferred than said Ser Verley was actually horrified not just at the fact that his fellow knights were betrayed by the swift negotiated withdrawal from Egypt but by the fact that the Sack of Damieta was well a sack. It was the contradiction of 'they are heathens so nothing done to them matters' when it comes to the common people and 'yeah we are totally striking a deal with their leadership'. It is not just that he sees that as a war that meant nothing but as being from the start a war that for the aggrandizement of princes, be they secular or of the Church.
 
We are probably going to be a attack of opportunity guy. And that's pretty cool. Also great diplomatic skills.

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[X] My Body Was To Guard the Servants of the Lord
 
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BTW I normally like to do at least 2 updates per day, maybe even 3, but for these first few updates it make sense to do one per day so people have time to discuss and consider the options.
 
DragonParadox said:
war that meant nothing but as being from the start a war that for the aggrandizement of princes
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Is he a bit thick in the head? Or raised on fairy tales and pixie dust? Because Knights were basically just dedicated-to-task killers and thugs sometimes. I'm not saying he's really focused on the romanticism of Knighthood so much as it is surprising that someone raised to be a Knight as a minor noble isn't aware of the political realities of his station and whom he is sworn to.

Correction, I'm gravely skeptical of it.

A commoner raised to Knighthood, it would make more sense, I guess. No parents and close associates to dissuade them from ignoring how the elite aren't often as beholden to the Church as the Church would like, and more than the Elite would prefer.
 
No7sHere said:
This build does remove or seriously modify a lot of the cavaliers base abilities, like tactician and charge which are really cool.
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Tactician is really hard to use effectively without adding enormous amounts of busywork to DP's docket in combat situations. Not denying that charge is cool, mind.

Crake said:
Is he a bit thick in the head? Or raised on fairy tales and pixie dust? Because Knights were basically just dedicated-to-task killers and thugs sometimes. I'm not saying he's really focused on the romanticism of Knighthood so much as it is surprising that someone raised to be a Knight as a minor noble isn't aware of the political realities of his station and whom he is sworn to.

Correction, I'm gravely skeptical of it.

A commoner raised to Knighthood, it would make more sense, I guess. No parents and close associates to dissuade them from ignoring how the elite aren't often as beholden to the Church as the Church would like, and more than the Elite would prefer.
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Church and High Noble/Royal propaganda was one hell of a drug man. Also DP is explicitly writing a piece of heroic fantasy, so it makes sense that the MC be a bit less of the awful aspects of feudalism.
 
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I don't like this build. Because it's very defensive and passive almost.

It doesn't speak of a man that left the crusade after being disillusioned. It doesn't speak of the risk the man took.
 
Acolyte said:
I don't like this build. Because it's very defensive and passive almost.

It doesn't speak of a man that left the crusade after being disillusioned. It doesn't speak of the risk the man took.
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It's a build that places you in the centre of combat all the time so that you can actually use the gimmicks to protect your allies. That it is incapable of going "I cast smite" on the heathens is kinda the point.
 
Crake said:
Is he a bit thick in the head? Or raised on fairy tales and pixie dust? Because Knights were basically just dedicated-to-task killers and thugs sometimes. I'm not saying he's really focused on the romanticism of Knighthood so much as it is surprising that someone raised to be a Knight as a minor noble isn't aware of the political realities of his station and whom he is sworn to.

Correction, I'm gravely skeptical of it.

A commoner raised to Knighthood, it would make more sense, I guess. No parents and close associates to dissuade them from ignoring how the elite aren't often as beholden to the Church as the Church would like, and more than the Elite would prefer.
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Yes, but that is normal wars, a crusade is not supposed to be a normal war. It is proclaimed by the Church, it is supposed to wipe way your sins, for that to be true it has to be godly. When it failed to be that, when it failed to be that as men he knew were dying around him and he did not know what the fate of their souls would be he cracked.
 
@DragonParadox, any carryover house rules from ASWAH?
Well, besides from learning from the last mistakes and limiting the power of telefrag teleport available to the setting.

[] While we aren't ever getting into the "diplomance a God into submission"-territory here, the base dnd/pf can be... weird with social checks.
Are we still doing the weird mumbo-jumbo you did behind the screen, that handled characters as a list of key parameters that gave maluses or bonuses to an attempted diplomacy check?

[] Are the higher-power spells still performable by a group of lower-level mages doing a ritual?

I think you ought to put a hard limit there as well.
In aswah, it's the fact that a faction could have a hundred worthless practitioners chant together to rain fire and brimstone on an enemy through widespread rituals, that made a lot of the Starategic endgame weird.
...Weirder, anyway.
 
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Crake said:
Is he a bit thick in the head? Or raised on fairy tales and pixie dust? Because Knights were basically just dedicated-to-task killers and thugs sometimes. I'm not saying he's really focused on the romanticism of Knighthood so much as it is surprising that someone raised to be a Knight as a minor noble isn't aware of the political realities of his station and whom he is sworn to.

Correction, I'm gravely skeptical of it.

A commoner raised to Knighthood, it would make more sense, I guess. No parents and close associates to dissuade them from ignoring how the elite aren't often as beholden to the Church as the Church would like, and more than the Elite would prefer.
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Well he's probably grown up on stories of the crusades, thier righteousness and glory. And then to participate and find out that your target is just as human as you are and that you have committed and participated in atrocities, not for god but for the Princes and priests.

The crusades after all were supposed to be a way into heaven. The "good fight" so to speak. Distinct form the wars in Europe which everyone clearly knew were bad and where you were committing sin and all that.

Much like how many people in modern times still have this idea of a "just war". Despite having all the information of the world at their fingertips. I don't find it that far fetched. Besides it seems that our MC is young.
 
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egoo said:
@DragonParadox, any carryover house rules from ASWAH?
Well, besides from learning from the last mistakes and limiting the power of telefrag teleport available to the setting.

[] While we aren't ever getting into the "diplomance a God into submission"-territory here, the base dnd/pf can be... weird with social checks.
Are we still doing the weird mumbo-jumbo you did behind the screen, that handled characters as a list of key parameters that gave maluses or bonuses to an attempted diplomacy check?

[] Are the higher-power spells still performable by a group of lower-level mages doing a ritual?

I think you ought to put a hard limit there as well.
In aswah, it's the fact that a faction could have a hundred worthless practitioners chant together to rain fire and brimstone on an enemy through widespread rituals, that made a lot of the Starategic endgame weird.
...Weirder, anyway.
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  1. I think that for now while dealing with sane numbers we can just use the guidelines of standard PF for dealing with diplomacy, there are some detailed rules I will look into.
  2. There are actually limits in P6 as to what you can cast as ritual, like you can cast some level 4 spells, but no level 5 and certainly nothing higher. There will be no raining of fire and destruction from the local minor mage coven. That was a patch to a problem that thankfully does not exist here
 
I usually play as a kitsune swashbuckler or tengu gunslinger but sure, this sounds good for a melee build

[X] Crake
[X] My Body Was To Guard the Servants of the Lord
 
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