you could just like, buy tankers
Probably need those for higher operational range too. What if aliums attack something not as close to us next time?
From what you know, there should be?
Gotcha.

[ ] Learning Our Lessons
-[X] Order more planes (150 Focus?, 55 000 + ??? IC)
--[X] 11 F-22A (50 Focus, 55,000 IC)
--[X] 2x Tanker (??? Focus, ??? IC)
--[X] 2x AWACS (???? Focus, ??? IC)
-[X] Organize XCOM (100 Focus)
--[X] Structure passing of experience from aces or otherwise those who fought aliens to new pilots (?? Focus, does it even go in this category?)
-[X] Status Reports (75 focus total)
--[X] Dr. Vahlen
--[X] Dr. Shen
--[X] Commander Pulford
-[X] Read Briefings (50 Focus)
--[X] Status of living Aces from conflicts of the last 25 years.
-[X] Recruit Staff (100 Focus)
--[X] Retired Aces to serve as instructors
--[X] Pilots
--[X] Logisticians
--[X] Ground defense forces for the base, engineers, scientists, etc


Total of, what, 475 Focus? And yet a question whether we have IC for all we want to buy.

Logic:
- Long Caster is grounded, and so we need AWACS
- We reaally need tankers
- We need to organize tactics of aliens and anti-alien warfare; systematize what we know of them tactically (this is not Vahlen's ballpark); etc, etc.
- SOUTHCOM seems to be handling defense of scientists, but we are probably expected to be able to handle it on our own once we get going.


Plan has too many question marks, so for now I am not voting for plan itself.


edit: aliens seem to be very maneuverable; maybe we should go for Su-47s instead if we expect more dogfights and less "fire a lot of missiles from far away"? They are half the price too.
 
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Wait a minute.

@huhYeahGoodPoint, do we have to manually order more ADMM's for ADMM's to be delivered to us? Or will the logisticians do that for us automatically?

[X] Learning Our Lessons v2


I'm voting for the plan that will buy tankers now. Also @ctulhuslp, why not recruit Mobius One's AWACS partner, Sky Eye? He's probably got more experience than even Long Caster. Also, why F-22's? We already ordered several SU-33 Flanker D's. Just order more for easier logistics and standardization.
 
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Wait a minute.

@huhYeahGoodPoint, do we have to manually order more ADMM's for ADMM's to be delivered to us? Or will the logisticians do that for us automatically?

[X] Learning Our Lessons
-[X] Order more planes (150 Focus?, 55 000 + ??? IC)
--[X] 11 F-22A (50 Focus, 55,000 IC)
--[X] 2x Tanker (??? Focus, ??? IC)
--[X] 2x AWACS (???? Focus, ??? IC)
-[X] Organize XCOM (100 Focus)
--[X] Structure passing of experience from aces or otherwise those who fought aliens to new pilots (?? Focus, does it even go in this category?)
-[X] Status Reports (75 focus total)
--[X] Dr. Vahlen
--[X] Dr. Shen
--[X] Commander Pulford
-[X] Read Briefings (50 Focus)
--[X] Status of living Aces from conflicts of the last 25 years.
-[X] Recruit Staff (100 Focus)
--[X] Retired Aces to serve as instructors
--[X] Pilots
--[X] Logisticians
--[X] Ground defense forces for the base, engineers, scientists, etc

I'm voting for the plan that will buy tankers now. Also @ctulhuslp, why not recruit Mobius One's AWACS partner, Sky Eye? He's probably got more experience than even Long Caster. Also, why F-22's? We already ordered several SU-33 Flanker D's. Just order more for easier logistics and standardization.

Because half of our planes atm are on F-22 lol. And arriving planes will indeed be Su-33. Daniel's gonna strangle us some day isn't he.

Also, why is "carrier-ok" a separate row in planes descriptions? I did not think that we could use carriers in timeframe of alien raids. Huh.
 
Because half of our planes atm are on F-22 lol. And arriving planes will indeed be Su-33. Daniel's gonna strangle us some day isn't he.

Also, why is "carrier-ok" a separate row in planes descriptions? I did not think that we could use carriers in timeframe of alien raids. Huh.

Ok. How about this? Six F-22's and Five SU-33's for that eleven plane order? We got to standardize from now on. Nothing else lower than an F-22 or an SU-33 from now on. Come on.
 
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Ok. How about this? Six F-22's and Five SU-33's for that eleven plane order? We got to standardize from now on. Nothing else lower than an F-22 or an SU-33 from now on. Come on.

I mean, I don't disagree, but I want to wait on QM's answer to the questions about IC prices of AWACS and tankers and total IC we have before making a final plan iteration.

I am not even voting for my own plan yet lol, it was just a proposal of what I think should be in one.
 
I mean, I don't disagree, but I want to wait on QM's answer to the questions about IC prices of AWACS and tankers and total IC we have before making a final plan iteration.

I am not even voting for my own plan yet lol, it was just a proposal of what I think should be in one.

Well, at the very least keep the Tanker order. We need Tankers. The AWACS? I think Long Casters AWACS plane is also present, its just not getting used. Just get Sky Eye on base and let him do AWACS duty. He's the most experienced AWACS on the planet at this moment.
 
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Ok. How about this? Six F-22's and Five SU-33's for that eleven plane order? We got to standardize from now on. Nothing else lower than an F-22 or an SU-33 from now on. Come on.
Saying "nothing else lower than an F-22 or an SU-33" doesn't really work, since F-22 is much better than SU-33 (5000 IC and 2000 IC respectively).
--[X] Ground defense forces for the base, engineers, scientists, etc
That would be recruiting three different types of staff, so this alone would be 75 Focus.
I thought the arriving planes were F-35Cs? I originally voted for 11 F-22As and 2 F/18s for the 12 new pilots we'd have and to replace the F-15 one of our pilots used. We got 6 new pilots last update and I'm assuming we"ll get 6 more in this vote.
The arriving planes are Su-33 Flanker-D's.
 
Personally I'd go with Su-30 instead of the Su-33. Both are good Flankers, but most of the Su-33's modifications are just to get its fat arse in the air faster off a ski jump equipped carrier, so an Su-30 (even the base model) would probably be a little better for the same price.

Actually, are we only sticking to planes that have been used in Ace Combat? If not (which would be ideal), ditch the Su-33 entirely and go with the MiG-29K. Both are carrier fighters, but the MiG-29K is more modernized, and it can buddy refuel like the Hornet. And unlike the Hornet, it actually is supermaneuverable IRL.
 
Saying "nothing else lower than an F-22 or an SU-33" doesn't really work, since F-22 is much better than SU-33 (5000 IC and 2000 IC respectively).

Then why were SU-33's even ordered in the first place if they aren't that good? IC savings?

As for me, wow. Does anyone have a tally of our current inventory of planes?
 
The arriving planes are Su-33 Flanker-D's.

How many? I don't see why we should use them. If some of the best pilots have trouble fighting in an F-22, the B-rank pilots will be cannon fodder in anything else.

Personally I'd go with Su-30 instead of the Su-33. Both are good Flankers, but most of the Su-33's modifications are just to get its fat arse in the air faster off a ski jump equipped carrier, so an Su-30 (even the base model) would probably be a little better for the same price.

Actually, are we only sticking to planes that have been used in Ace Combat? If not (which would be ideal), ditch the Su-33 entirely and go with the MiG-29K. Both are carrier fighters, but the MiG-29K is more modernized, and it can buddy refuel like the Hornet. And unlike the Hornet, it actually is supermaneuverable IRL.

Dogfight capable means dogfight capable and that includes every dogfight capable jet from the cold war era to the fictional Ace Combat aircraft. It doesn't mean they're good at fighting aliens.
 
Then why were SU-33's even ordered in the first place if they aren't that good? IC savings?

As for me, wow. Does anyone have a tally of our current inventory of planes?
Our accounting is....
IUN-PKF-XCOM Resources

Available Industrial Capacity: 39,150 per week

Spare Aircraft: paper airplanes lmao you don't have any extra aircraft

4x Alien Fighter Wrecks?


DANIEL: You have no fucking idea how to organize shit, wait 'till I'm done before you ask for this doc back
...work in progress
 
In spoilers is a list of aircraft. The only reason the MQ-101 is on the list is because it is unmanned. Everything from the F-35 to the Rafale is worth buying if we're strapped for IC. The 4,900 jets and F-22 is what we should be giving our C and B rank pilots. The super planes are what we should be giving to any S rank and higher pilots. We won't be able to afford more than one every few turns.

MQ-101: Unmanned Combat Aircraft. 600
F-35C Lightning II: Stealth Multirole. 3,000
F-15 S/MTD: Air Superiority Fighter. 3,600
F-15SE Silent Eagle: Air Superiority Fighter. 3,600
Rafale M: Multirole. 4,100
Su-57: Stealth Air Superiority Fighter. 4,900
YF-23 Black Widow II: Stealth. 4,900
F-22A Raptor: Stealth Air Superiority Fighter. 5,000
CFA-44 Nosferatu: Stealth Carrier Air Supremacy Fighter. 15,000
ADFX-01 Morgan: Multirole. 17,000
XFA-27 Scarface: Stealth Multirole. 18,000
X-02S Strike Wyvern: Stealth Fighter. 20,000

Everything else isn't worth buying. If the superplanes come nowhere close to the Alien fighters we shouldn't be giving anyone planes worse than the Su-57. They may as well fly in coffins. The F-35C is modern enough it might not be complete suicide against the Aliens and that is why I included it. We shouldn't be buying it, the F-15 or Rafale M if we can get away with it.
 
In spoilers is a list of aircraft. The only reason the MQ-101 is on the list is because it is unmanned. Everything from the F-35 to the Rafale is worth buying if we're strapped for IC. The 4,900 jets and F-22 is what we should be giving our C and B rank pilots. The super planes are what we should be giving to any S rank and higher pilots. We won't be able to afford more than one every few turns.

I'd say that superplanes should be at least SS+, probably only for SSRs. At least until/unless we get, like, 100k IC and a decent number of good spare planes.
 
Then why were SU-33's even ordered in the first place if they aren't that good? IC savings?

As for me, wow. Does anyone have a tally of our current inventory of planes?
Yes, because ordering those Nosferatus cost nearly all IC on the first turn and we were in need of planes. And IC does not transfer between turns.
How many? I don't see why we should use them. If some of the best pilots have trouble fighting in an F-22, the B-rank pilots will be cannon fodder in anything else.
Three.
Thought it's just "ground defense forces" and so only 1 type. Just different deployments.
The way you worded it made it sound you were recruiting ground defense forces, engineers and scientists.

@huhYeahGoodPoint
What is our base security detail looking like? Is it necessary for us to order ground defense forces?
In spoilers is a list of aircraft. The only reason the MQ-101 is on the list is because it is unmanned. Everything from the F-35 to the Rafale is worth buying if we're strapped for IC. The 4,900 jets and F-22 is what we should be giving our C and B rank pilots. The super planes are what we should be giving to any S rank and higher pilots. We won't be able to afford more than one every few turns.

MQ-101: Unmanned Combat Aircraft. 600
F-35C Lightning II: Stealth Multirole. 3,000
F-15 S/MTD: Air Superiority Fighter. 3,600
F-15SE Silent Eagle: Air Superiority Fighter. 3,600
Rafale M: Multirole. 4,100
Su-57: Stealth Air Superiority Fighter. 4,900
YF-23 Black Widow II: Stealth. 4,900
F-22A Raptor: Stealth Air Superiority Fighter. 5,000
CFA-44 Nosferatu: Stealth Carrier Air Supremacy Fighter. 15,000
ADFX-01 Morgan: Multirole. 17,000
XFA-27 Scarface: Stealth Multirole. 18,000
X-02S Strike Wyvern: Stealth Fighter. 20,000

Everything else isn't worth buying. If the superplanes come nowhere close to the Alien fighters we shouldn't be giving anyone planes worse than the Su-57. They may as well fly in coffins. The F-35C is modern enough it might not be complete suicide against the Aliens and that is why I included it. We shouldn't be buying it, the F-15 or Rafale M if we can get away with it.
I agree. We should first have all of our pilots at least flying on either F-22, Su-57 or YF-23. Unless we suddenly start needing more planes and are low on IC.
 
Considering our logistics problem, I think we should hold off on getting more Pilots, and just buy planes for the Pilots we do have. Until we get a clearer idea of what's at our disposal, let's be conservative with our efforts.

[X] Plan Build and Research
- [X] Organize XCOM (100 Focus)
- [X] Recruit (75 Focus Total)
-- [X] Engineers
-- [X] Scientists
-- [X] Logisticians
- [X] Briefings (100 Focus)
-- [X] Planes
-- [X] Status of living Aces from wars in the last 25 years
- [X] Delegate Tasks (25 Focus)
-- [X] Pilot Training, Mobius 1
- [X] Recquisition Aircraft (50 Focus, 35K Industry Points)
-- [X] 7 F-22A Raptors

Focus Total: 350 + 100 (Status Reports and such) = 450

We are pushing Long Caster dangerously close to incredible exhaustion, but we have little choice in the matter. Hopefully, the alien's newfound fear of us will give us some breathing room and we should be able to hire another AWACs for battlefield command next turn.

As for why we shouldn't buy Tankers for now, I suspect not having a briefing on them dirst will incure further costs in both industry points and focus, and I don't wanna risk that.

As for training, well, we have the most experienced Pilots with us who have fought the aliens before. Best to use him as a instructor rather than those who have had 0 experience on the matter.

Also, here's a list of our Pilots and what planes they're flying:

Mobius Squadron
Mobius 1, "Mobius 1": CFA-44 Nosferatu

Mobius 1's F-22 given to Huxian

Strider Squadron
Strider 1, "Trigger": CFA-44 Nosferatu
Strider 2, "Count": F-22
Strider 3, "Jaeger": F-15
Strider 4, "Huxian": F-22

Trigger's F-22 given to Count
Jaeger's F-15 shotdown in 1st contact, Pilot survived
Count's F-15 given to Jaeger

Salamander Squadron
Salamander 1: Flying a Unspecified Plane
Salamander 4: Presumed No Available Plane, wasn't present for the last battle

Salamander 1 shotdown in 1st contact, Pilot survived
Salamander 4 shotdown in 1st contact, Pilot survived

Skoll Squadron
Skoll 1: Su-37
Skoll 4: Flying a Unspecified Plane

Skoll 1 shotdown in 1st contact, Pilot KIA

Rigel Squadron
Rigel 1:
Rigel 2:

Waltz Squadron
Waltz 1: No Plane
Waltz 2: No Plane

Azdaha Squadron
Azdaha 1: No Plane
Azdaha 2: No Plane

Zvezda Squadron
Zvezda 1: No Plane
Zvezda 2: No Plane

Planes Available:
3 Su-33

Pilots with Unspecified/Low-tier/No Planes:
12

As for recruitment of staff, base building comes first. The more Engineers we have, the faster the Lighthouse can be repaired. The more Scientists, the faster we can have the Alien Wrecks examined. The more Logisticians, the faster we can get a clear view of what's at our disposal so we can buy planes and recruit pilots without wasting money and such.
 
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@huhYeahGoodPoint, do we have to manually order more ADMM's for ADMM's to be delivered to us? Or will the logisticians do that for us automatically?
It will cost something; the logisticians will do it without needing your Focus, but it'll cost IC; how much is something you'll have to ask your logisticians.
"Would you want a national holiday with that as well, sir?"
Pulford: "No. The schoolchildren don't need less education."
Can we spend some focus now to get a gist of how much the tankers cost?
Seconded, adding AWACS to the question.
Same rules as before; get a third person to voice support for "Briefing on Support and Logistics" airplanes, or just straight up request a full briefing on planes before the update.
Because half of our planes atm are on F-22 lol. And arriving planes will indeed be Su-33. Daniel's gonna strangle us some day isn't he.

Also, why is "carrier-ok" a separate row in planes descriptions? I did not think that we could use carriers in timeframe of alien raids. Huh.

carriers are super useful especially when the carriers can fly too
Actually, are we only sticking to planes that have been used in Ace Combat? If not (which would be ideal), ditch the Su-33 entirely and go with the MiG-29K. Both are carrier fighters, but the MiG-29K is more modernized, and it can buddy refuel like the Hornet. And unlike the Hornet, it actually is supermaneuverable IRL.
We are sticking pretty much solely to planes in Ace Combat, yeah. Presumably if a MiG-29K program exists it hasn't been finished yet, or otherwise is untested.
Thought it's just "ground defense forces" and so only 1 type. Just different deployments.
I'm going to count it as one recruitment action, yes.
What is our base security detail looking like? Is it necessary for us to order ground defense forces?
Let me put it another way: the ex-444 squadron was very nearly the majority of people on the base who had guns and were ready to use them.
If @huhYeahGoodPoint adds a mechanic to trade in planes and pay the cost in difference that would let us save IC.
Write it in and find out if it works.
 
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