- Location
- Germany
[X]Shut up and let me write
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A true hero... in training (Pokemon Gym Leader's apprentice quest)
- Thread starter Luxicato
- Start date
New and Improved Combat System
Luxicato
nº1 Squid Fairy
- Location
- Star sea
Well. I can probably call it here. It seems unanimous for now and I don't see the votes changing anytime soon. Time for some specifics.
We've all seen how good I am at creating mechanics and battle systems, so with this new one decided we just need to make clear some rules. Everyone needs to be on the same page.
First of all, dice rolling will stay the same. After each post where you propose a plan I will roll the dice. They are not 100% responsible of the success or failure of a plan, but they will help determine how lucky you are in that situation (Unless you roll crit or crit fail. Those are the will of superior beings at play and who I am to defy them?).
When battle starts I will ask for a strategy. The strategy will not be for all combat, if the enemy has more than one pokemon the strategy will only be for the pokemon you are fighting in that moment. Once we decided on a strategy I will roll the dice we need and start writing until I decide to stop for another vote. When I stop? Well, when a change in strategy is needed. The main reasons might be because your previous strategy is actually going horribly wrong, the dice screwed you over and everything goes horribly wrong or the enemy changes pokemon and you need a new strategy. Most of the time when I ask for a new strategy is because you are going to lose at this rate.
If everything goes alright I will not ask for a new strategy and you can read how your pokemon kicks everyone's asses thanks to you expert strategy.
Ranks, moves, types, terrain... Everything matters but now that you don't control combat step by step you should think about those things for your initial plan.
Another thing I'm adding is the "wound" system. Not going to lie. It's basically HP but cooler sounding and in reverse. Every healthy pokemon starts with 0 wounds (With situational exceptions) and can have up to 3 wounds before fainting. Wounds are not just HP, you need more than a simple attack to cause a wound. They don't only count damage. A "Wound" can mean exhaustion or even mental damage. Anything that drives you closer to fainting. One exception to this rule is boss pokemon. That can mean legendaries, last pokemon of important trainers or plot important battles. Those pokemon might have up to 5 wounds depending on the occasion, and also will your pokemon to make the fight slightly longer and more epic.
Non-damaging moves still matter even if they don't cause wounds. An attack plan that has a couple dragon dances will be a lot more effective that one that doesn't. The same with plans that include modification to the terrain or other interesting tactics. I reward creativity (As long as it actually can work).
What happens when a pokemon reaches 3 or 5 wounds? Well, usually the pokemon just faints if there is another waiting, but if that pokemon is the last one before the battle is over you have some options. I will let you vote on what you want to do. If it's a wild pokemon you can throw a pokeball or scare it off so they run away. Most combats will end in a final finishing move. Once the enemy has maximum wounds they are defenseless and gives you a chance to use something more flashy to make the enemy faint. No dice rolls, just a fun way to end combat.
One rule I have is to not make plans overly-complicated. I also don't want plans that only say "Use X attack until opponent faints". I want a medium amount of complication at least. I still like convoluted plans that think about what can go wrong and have counter-mesures, but remember. No plan survives contact with the enemy.
I'm pretty sure that's all for now until someone reminds me the obvious thing I forgot to talk about and I have to edit this.
But for now... let the story continue!
We are changing battle systems mid-battle so everything has to change too! (fun~). I will show you the situation. Things are the same but now we have Wounds~
Houndour A 1/3 Wounds, slowed.
Houndour B 1/3 Wounds, Heavily Infatuated.
Houndour C 1/3 Wounds, Heavily Infatuated.
Houndour D 2/3 Wounds.
Houndour E 2/3 Wounds, fire disabled.
Houndoom 1/3 Wounds.
Lily 1/3 Wounds.
Battle Points are gone but everything else stays the same.
Now time to vote on a strategy for the rest of combat, not only for the next "round". Yes, you can add in the vote a plan to finish off Houndour D and then what your pokemon do after that.
[][Strategy] Write-in
We've all seen how good I am at creating mechanics and battle systems, so with this new one decided we just need to make clear some rules. Everyone needs to be on the same page.
First of all, dice rolling will stay the same. After each post where you propose a plan I will roll the dice. They are not 100% responsible of the success or failure of a plan, but they will help determine how lucky you are in that situation (Unless you roll crit or crit fail. Those are the will of superior beings at play and who I am to defy them?).
When battle starts I will ask for a strategy. The strategy will not be for all combat, if the enemy has more than one pokemon the strategy will only be for the pokemon you are fighting in that moment. Once we decided on a strategy I will roll the dice we need and start writing until I decide to stop for another vote. When I stop? Well, when a change in strategy is needed. The main reasons might be because your previous strategy is actually going horribly wrong, the dice screwed you over and everything goes horribly wrong or the enemy changes pokemon and you need a new strategy. Most of the time when I ask for a new strategy is because you are going to lose at this rate.
If everything goes alright I will not ask for a new strategy and you can read how your pokemon kicks everyone's asses thanks to you expert strategy.
Ranks, moves, types, terrain... Everything matters but now that you don't control combat step by step you should think about those things for your initial plan.
Another thing I'm adding is the "wound" system. Not going to lie. It's basically HP but cooler sounding and in reverse. Every healthy pokemon starts with 0 wounds (With situational exceptions) and can have up to 3 wounds before fainting. Wounds are not just HP, you need more than a simple attack to cause a wound. They don't only count damage. A "Wound" can mean exhaustion or even mental damage. Anything that drives you closer to fainting. One exception to this rule is boss pokemon. That can mean legendaries, last pokemon of important trainers or plot important battles. Those pokemon might have up to 5 wounds depending on the occasion, and also will your pokemon to make the fight slightly longer and more epic.
Non-damaging moves still matter even if they don't cause wounds. An attack plan that has a couple dragon dances will be a lot more effective that one that doesn't. The same with plans that include modification to the terrain or other interesting tactics. I reward creativity (As long as it actually can work).
What happens when a pokemon reaches 3 or 5 wounds? Well, usually the pokemon just faints if there is another waiting, but if that pokemon is the last one before the battle is over you have some options. I will let you vote on what you want to do. If it's a wild pokemon you can throw a pokeball or scare it off so they run away. Most combats will end in a final finishing move. Once the enemy has maximum wounds they are defenseless and gives you a chance to use something more flashy to make the enemy faint. No dice rolls, just a fun way to end combat.
One rule I have is to not make plans overly-complicated. I also don't want plans that only say "Use X attack until opponent faints". I want a medium amount of complication at least. I still like convoluted plans that think about what can go wrong and have counter-mesures, but remember. No plan survives contact with the enemy.
I'm pretty sure that's all for now until someone reminds me the obvious thing I forgot to talk about and I have to edit this.
But for now... let the story continue!
We are changing battle systems mid-battle so everything has to change too! (fun~). I will show you the situation. Things are the same but now we have Wounds~
Houndour A 1/3 Wounds, slowed.
Houndour B 1/3 Wounds, Heavily Infatuated.
Houndour C 1/3 Wounds, Heavily Infatuated.
Houndour D 2/3 Wounds.
Houndour E 2/3 Wounds, fire disabled.
Houndoom 1/3 Wounds.
Lily 1/3 Wounds.
Battle Points are gone but everything else stays the same.
Now time to vote on a strategy for the rest of combat, not only for the next "round". Yes, you can add in the vote a plan to finish off Houndour D and then what your pokemon do after that.
[][Strategy] Write-in
Previously I was going to continue with our strategy, but well, we let Lily fight against two opponents and that's a no-no. We need to send one of the mons against Hound E.
Ofc we should let grunts fight their pokemon, so far they're doing great. And I'm SO GLAD we didn't interfere with Roselia fight. That would have backfired tremendously.
Ofc we should let grunts fight their pokemon, so far they're doing great. And I'm SO GLAD we didn't interfere with Roselia fight. That would have backfired tremendously.
DarkKing98
Certified Village Idiot
- Location
- USA
[X][Strategy] Have Fang use Charge and Thunder Fang on Houndour D while Maelstrom goes to take care of Houndour E with Aqua Jet to allow Lily to focus on the Houndoom, if not defeat the Houndour
- Location
- Wherever I feel like being
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Tell Fang you trust his judgement, have Maelstrom combine Aqua Jet and Harden to take down their current opponent. from there transition into a Bounce/Aqua Jet combo in order to hit whichever Houndour looks freshest.
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DarkKing98
Certified Village Idiot
- Location
- USA
Tempest we no longer have a limited amount of moves to order.
- Location
- Wherever I feel like being
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Edited my plan to account for that.
DarkKing98
Certified Village Idiot
- Location
- USA
I heavily advise just sticking to our own fight. One person explicitly told us to stay out of their's, the Houndoom is flat out to dangerous for us, and Houndour A seems to be easily getting handled by the Gligar. If Gligar needs help we can jump in but we have never fought along side someone before. We are just as likely, if not more so, to get in their way than to help them.
- Location
- France
[X][Strategy] Use bounce+aquajet to make sure Maelstrom can finish off the extinguished Houndour without much interference (if it is not enough or it dodges by dice's mercy, just harrass it with aqua-jet afterward). As for our little Shinx, use thunder fang to keep keep our current foe's attention, trying to finish it off while letting more room for the fish to work. The first done with his Houndour goes helping the other one, then we seize the battlefield situation.
Pretty simple. the movement pattern of bounce would make sure the houndour we are currently facing do not intercept maelstrom. We have two easy target here, and the terrain advantages concerns fights we are not (yet) a part of (the crater of gligar, the inher battling houndours, etc). Once we are done with our current houndours, we can spare a glance at the battlefield and consider who needs help (or not)
Pretty simple. the movement pattern of bounce would make sure the houndour we are currently facing do not intercept maelstrom. We have two easy target here, and the terrain advantages concerns fights we are not (yet) a part of (the crater of gligar, the inher battling houndours, etc). Once we are done with our current houndours, we can spare a glance at the battlefield and consider who needs help (or not)
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Okay, I think our current strategy parts can be summed thus:
1. Which Houndours do Maelstrom and Fang focus on first?
2. What moves do they perform, and on what conditions?
3. What do they do after potentially eliminating their opponents.
For point 1, I think DarkKing98 and Taenebras have it correct. We can't let Houndour E interrupt Lily again. So Fang to one, and Maelstrom to the other.
For point 2, just calling a single move or combo per pokemon might be enough here, since the Houndours are so raged and unlikely to do anything fancy. Still, I like Taenebras taking into account the chance that Bounce might fail to hit.
For point 3, TempestK suggests going for the freshest Houndors next, but I'm leaning more towards just helping Lily, and leaving the Grunts to handle themselves.
Also, preparing for the more unlikely, but still very much possible scenarios, could be point 4.
For point 4, I'd especially be concerned with the possibility that the Grunts either lose, or somehow else get their Houndours to attack us.
The above analysis is most important I feel, but I still made a strategy as well. Feel free to further improve this suggestion:
{X][Strategy] Prioritize Lily
-[X] Maelstrom takes Houndour D, Fang takes Houndour E. Maelstrom should focus on just keeping the Houndour away from Lily, while Fang should go for the KO.
-[X] Maelstrom: use Bounce + Aqua Jet to get maybe one surprise attack attempt in, before settling to harrass with just Aqua Jet. Fang: use Charge to close in, then Thunder Fang to finish. Both use the same combo when attacking other Houndours as well.
-[X] After eliminating their opponents: prioritize helping allies in the following order: 1. Any friend really struggling, 2. Lily, 3. Haru's other pokemon 4. Grunts.
-[X] Fang should be aware of any Houndours slipping from the Grunts, and intercept with Charge, even if it means that he has to fight 2v1 for a bit.
This plan prioritizes Lily clearing the Houndoom. It also takes into account that Maelstrom is weaker than the Houndours, and that Fang might have an edge against Houndour E, who was soaked by Lily. It also tries to prepare for the Grunts eventually betraying us in some way, be it low capability or low morals.
1. Which Houndours do Maelstrom and Fang focus on first?
2. What moves do they perform, and on what conditions?
3. What do they do after potentially eliminating their opponents.
For point 1, I think DarkKing98 and Taenebras have it correct. We can't let Houndour E interrupt Lily again. So Fang to one, and Maelstrom to the other.
For point 2, just calling a single move or combo per pokemon might be enough here, since the Houndours are so raged and unlikely to do anything fancy. Still, I like Taenebras taking into account the chance that Bounce might fail to hit.
For point 3, TempestK suggests going for the freshest Houndors next, but I'm leaning more towards just helping Lily, and leaving the Grunts to handle themselves.
Also, preparing for the more unlikely, but still very much possible scenarios, could be point 4.
For point 4, I'd especially be concerned with the possibility that the Grunts either lose, or somehow else get their Houndours to attack us.
The above analysis is most important I feel, but I still made a strategy as well. Feel free to further improve this suggestion:
{X][Strategy] Prioritize Lily
-[X] Maelstrom takes Houndour D, Fang takes Houndour E. Maelstrom should focus on just keeping the Houndour away from Lily, while Fang should go for the KO.
-[X] Maelstrom: use Bounce + Aqua Jet to get maybe one surprise attack attempt in, before settling to harrass with just Aqua Jet. Fang: use Charge to close in, then Thunder Fang to finish. Both use the same combo when attacking other Houndours as well.
-[X] After eliminating their opponents: prioritize helping allies in the following order: 1. Any friend really struggling, 2. Lily, 3. Haru's other pokemon 4. Grunts.
-[X] Fang should be aware of any Houndours slipping from the Grunts, and intercept with Charge, even if it means that he has to fight 2v1 for a bit.
This plan prioritizes Lily clearing the Houndoom. It also takes into account that Maelstrom is weaker than the Houndours, and that Fang might have an edge against Houndour E, who was soaked by Lily. It also tries to prepare for the Grunts eventually betraying us in some way, be it low capability or low morals.
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- Location
- il bel paese dove il sì sona
- Pronouns
- He
-[] Maelstrom takes Houndour D, Fang takes Houndour E. Maelstrom should focus on just keeping the Houndour away from Lily, while Fang should go for the KO.
-[] Maelstrom: use Bounce + Aqua Jet to get maybe one surprise attack attempt in, before settling to harrass with just Aqua Jet. Fang: use Charge to close in, then Thunder Fang to finish. Both use the same combo when attacking other Houndours as well.
-[] After eliminating their opponents: prioritize helping allies in the following order: 1. Any friend really struggling, 2. Lily, 3. Haru's other pokemon 4. Grunts.
-[] Fang should be aware of any Houndours slipping from the Grunts, and intercept with Charge, even if it means that he has to fight 2v1 for a bit.
Looks like a sound plan to me.
Edit: But on a second reading I have to concur with @Chopak. Charge is not to get closer, but to get stronger.
EDIT2: Sorry changed my vote
[X][Strategy] Jump up jump up and get down
- [X] Mael Bounces high, over Houndour D and Aqua Jets Houndour E. If that's not enough to KO it, he Bounces to dodge its attacks, and counters with Aqua Jet.
- [X] Fang keeps attacking Houndour D with Thunder Fang. If he has got a second (because his opponent is staggered, paralysed or KOed) he Charges up in preparation for another attack.
- [X] If their respective opponents are down, they assist each other using the same attacks. If both opponents are down. We take a moment to check how others are doing.
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DarkKing98
Certified Village Idiot
- Location
- USA
You guys. We get creamed if we go after the Houndoom. It's to high in Rank. A soft rule of QM's is that if it's two Whole Ranks higher than the opposing Pokémon it's an instant lost. Also we should not interfere with the Grunts fights. Unless of course, you want to get hit by one of their attacks or distract them from fighting the Houndour. Because you need to keep in mind that Haru is a complete and utter noob that doesn't know the basics of Wild Pokémon encounters, let alone working side by side with other trainers in battle. We're more likely to fuck things up than we are to help because Haru knows pretty much jackshit for combat.
- Location
- Germany
Wrong bracket, please fix.
We're not directly fighting it, we're merely assisting Lily, who does have the necessary rank. It would be illogical that shooting a ranged attack at Houndoom while his attention is bound by Lily would cause an "instant loss".
DarkKing98
Certified Village Idiot
- Location
- USA
What ranged attack? If you looked at our moves you'd know we have no range moves.
- Location
- Germany
[X][Strategy] Have Fang use Charge and Thunder Fang on Houndour D while Maelstrom goes to take care of Houndour E with Aqua Jet to allow Lily to focus on the Houndoom, if not defeat the Houndour
I'd still rather not use the high risk pseudo Aqua Rocket unless Maelstrom at least had a chance to practice it. Plus, Aqua Jet has plenty of speed and mobility, which is about all we need against an almost defeated opponent with type disadvantage that can't even use ranged attacks.
I'd still rather not use the high risk pseudo Aqua Rocket unless Maelstrom at least had a chance to practice it. Plus, Aqua Jet has plenty of speed and mobility, which is about all we need against an almost defeated opponent with type disadvantage that can't even use ranged attacks.
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- Location
- Germany
Ah, it's been a while, I forgot about that, sorry. In that case, supporting Lily is quite a bit harder. I would definitely stack a few Harden/Charge before attacking Houndoom, and even then only because his temporary Anger trait should keep his attention in Lily.
Houndour E is already doused, so it seems sensible to use water against D, where that has yet to happen. Additionally, Fang doesn't have to worry about fire against a doused enemy.
[X][Strategy] Assisting Lily
-[X] Maelstrom attacks Houndour D with Aquajet, Fang uses Spark to close in and tackle Houndour E.
-[X] Once both are defeated, stack multiple Harden and Charge respectively and wait for an opening to assist Lily in her battle against Houndoom. Its anger should keep it focused on her, use that against it.
-[X] While waiting for the right moment, keep an eye out for Houndour. It's your job to keep them from Lily.
-[X] When the chance presents itself, use Maelstrom's Aquajet first so that Fang's Thunderfang (from a different direction a split second later) hits a wet target, then immediately disengage again before it can retaliate. The synchronized attacks from two directions might keep Houndoom off-balance, and at least it shouldn't be able to retaliate against both of your Pokémon.
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[X][Strategy] Jump up jump up and get down
- [X] Mael Bounces high, over Houndour D and Aqua Jets Houndour E. If that's not enough to KO it, he Bounces to dodge its attacks, and counters with Aqua Jet.
- [X] Fang keeps attacking Houndour D with Thunder Fang. If he has got a second (because his opponent is staggered, paralysed or KOed) he Charges up in preparation for another attack.
- [X] If their respective opponents are down, they assist each other using the same attacks. If both opponents are down. We take a moment to check how others are doing.
First of all, we need to get that Houndour from Lily, so she can fight Houndoom freely. I was convinced that Mael with his AquaJet is more likely to quickly attack that Houndour then Fang.
Second, we should focus on our two Houndours and not "help" others if its not needed. I just like Bounce+AquaJet combo especially that it's Super Effective here. Charge is good, but we shouldn't open ourselves to attack while using it.
- [X] Mael Bounces high, over Houndour D and Aqua Jets Houndour E. If that's not enough to KO it, he Bounces to dodge its attacks, and counters with Aqua Jet.
- [X] Fang keeps attacking Houndour D with Thunder Fang. If he has got a second (because his opponent is staggered, paralysed or KOed) he Charges up in preparation for another attack.
- [X] If their respective opponents are down, they assist each other using the same attacks. If both opponents are down. We take a moment to check how others are doing.
First of all, we need to get that Houndour from Lily, so she can fight Houndoom freely. I was convinced that Mael with his AquaJet is more likely to quickly attack that Houndour then Fang.
Second, we should focus on our two Houndours and not "help" others if its not needed. I just like Bounce+AquaJet combo especially that it's Super Effective here. Charge is good, but we shouldn't open ourselves to attack while using it.
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Lifeandlice
Practitioning side-character
- Location
- Usa
Edit: decided I'm gonna abstain from this vote as I really don't see any plans that look good and really wouldn't be able to make a better one myself.
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KidFromPallet
Pokemon Fan
- Location
- Pallet Town
Yeah, yeah, I totally get it. I really wouldn't want a huge 20 paragraph option either. I was just saying that we'd have to look at our opponents a bit more, because we'd have to come up with a general strategy before the battle. Things look looking at the fact that the trainer is a brash hothead and assuming that his Pokemon will be primarily attacking instead of using status moves. Or, like, planing around the assumption that a Machoke knows Thunderpunch because the trainer who sent it out is an electric-type enthusiast.
Like we're doing now, planning out the whole battle instead of just a single round.
[X][Strategy] Prioritize Lily
-[X] Maelstrom takes Houndour D, Fang takes Houndour E. Maelstrom should focus on just keeping the Houndour away from Lily, while Fang should go for the KO.
-[X] Maelstrom: use Bounce + Aqua Jet to get maybe one surprise attack attempt in, before settling to harrass with just Aqua Jet. Fang: use Charge to close in, then Thunder Fang to finish. Both use the same combo when attacking other Houndours as well.
-[X] After eliminating their opponents: prioritize helping allies in the following order: 1. Any friend really struggling, 2. Lily, 3. Haru's other pokemon 4. Grunts.
-[X] Fang should be aware of any Houndours slipping from the Grunts, and intercept with Charge, even if it means that he has to fight 2v1 for a bit.
One problem with this is that the move Charge is about Electrical charging, not physical charging. It boosts sp. def and raises the power of electric moves. Maybe it means to say have Fang use Charge as he's closing in?
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DarkKing98
Certified Village Idiot
- Location
- USA
Bounce takes time to actually work. Even getting to the Apex of the jump takes awhile. Aqua Jet + Bounce is basically High Jump Kick if it misses. Thusly majorly damaging Maelstrom.
Both Houndour D and E have been hit by Water. D thanks to Maelstrom's Aqua Jet, E thanks to Lily. So Maelstrom has better odds against E since his Physical Defense is far greater than his Special Defense.
Trying to "help" others could have major consequences. I feel like a broken record repeating this so many times but it feels this point keeps getting ignored. Haru is a brand new Trainer. He hardly knows how to Navigate forests and encounter wild Pokémon. So it's safe to assume he will cause negative penalties trying to help when he has never fought along side another trainer before. It's a real possibility we'll just end up getting in the way.
Both Houndour D and E have been hit by Water. D thanks to Maelstrom's Aqua Jet, E thanks to Lily. So Maelstrom has better odds against E since his Physical Defense is far greater than his Special Defense.
Trying to "help" others could have major consequences. I feel like a broken record repeating this so many times but it feels this point keeps getting ignored. Haru is a brand new Trainer. He hardly knows how to Navigate forests and encounter wild Pokémon. So it's safe to assume he will cause negative penalties trying to help when he has never fought along side another trainer before. It's a real possibility we'll just end up getting in the way.
- Location
- Germany
- Location
- Wherever I feel like being
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I see, I thought I'd updated the tally before I posted it. My bad.
@Paroni you've got a wrong bracket, so your vote is getting counted weird.
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