KleverKil'Vanya
Ortillery Operator
So Autochton?
A Song in the Fog [REBOOTED]
- Thread starter Einsig
- Start date
meganeshounen
*tips glasses*
- Location
- Far East Asia
Rules lawyering.
You're getting better at this, Hana.
Peer pressure is a bitch to deal with, isn't it?
I really hope Reyvateils don't have some sort of built-in "Easter egg" coding that makes them... lewd every now and then?
Then again... semi-AIs in squishy bodies.
So that's what Hana forgot to emulate with her Fogtech body. Bodily waste.
I'm guessing Hana could even forgo breathing.
Obligatory Luvia pic.
And I'm somehow surprised Hana knows about anime. Maybe it's from those fake human memories she got in the beginning as a pseudo-SI.
That feeling when someone comes along when you're having a really bad time during coding, points out a simple yet devastatingly effective fix for your problem and skips away~
So that's why she sorta kinda looks like Mir.
*Shadowruns start to intensify for Sono*
Spectrum
Tell me a secret~
- Location
- Behind you~
Baughn
Healing-type writer
- Location
- Dublin
But they're such good friends!
...
Really. This is them being good friends.
At some point, I started questioning the meaning of the word "biological". There's an analogue to Clarke's law in high-level technology: "Any sufficiently advanced nanotech is indistinguishable from biotech, and vice versa".
That said, Reyvateils are definitely not biological. Ignoring Third-Gens, who are a mistake.
She couldn't do it if she wanted. Remember her tests? Any loose hair would rapidly disintegrate into exotic radiation.
Physically? Origin, or rather Alpha, since Origins are by definition linked to a tower; I pointed this out a couple chapters ago. Possibly with some modifications. You know, like Fog tech.
Mentally? Ah, but that would be telling, and I'll leave the telling to Einsig.
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Hazardine
Asura of Darkness
- Location
- Somewhere in Florida
I think Einsig mentioned she was an Alpha, aka Origin, class Reyvateil so one of the most powerful ones around and she was designed Mir who is very much a genius with Sound Science and Magic given what she both knows and did. Like making a Reyvateil and Fog hybrid that some how works perfectly together technically.
Actually we know what type of Reyvateil she is but she is also part Fog as well and that means she has a Ship class designation, so is she a Cruiser, Submarine, or even a Battleship? I'm mentioning Battleships because if she is technically among the most powerful class of Reyvateil she could also be among the most powerful of the fog as well.
lancelot
Completely worth it
IS there a particular reason you've emotionally regressed so far that you can barely hold a conversation with another person without lossing control of yourself?
- Location
- EXA_PICO
- Pronouns
- He/Him
This isn't an SI. I haven't even been trying to make it an SI since most of the way through the first arc. That's why I rewrote it.
And since you asked, Hana is NOT as old as she appears to be.
Admittedly, I do recognize that a rewrite of old chapters to make Hana's mental voice more consistent is probably needed.
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Perhaps Hana's emotions are given free reign when she needs to do some singing, or they're hard to control after singing? Something like that, I think, although it can be wrong.
I mean, she can desactivate her emotional drive (or something similar named) to be an unemotional being; or perhaps it was changed with the new edits made to the chapters?
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That's an interesting question, depending on whatever the fog added, she could have substantial amounts of processing power from there... Though I'm not really sure who would have better processing technology, Fog and Ar Tonelico tech are both kind of out there.
lancelot
Completely worth it
Oh I hadn't seen there had been a rewrite.
Ompedia Article: Codic Cortex
Baughn
Healing-type writer
- Location
- Dublin
$ op Codic Cortex
Tap. Tap.
"Useless."
-
Once upon a time, the story goes, there was a programmer. He was an amazingly productive programmer, producing thousands of working, debugged lines of code every day.
Then he learned about DO-loops.
One of the fundamental limitations of all known sapient species is their lack of intuitive understanding of software and related systems. Colloquially, a programmer is a blind painter—not just a blind painter, but a painter entirely lacking a visual cortex. We create our programs like an artist drawing one pixel at a time, and our programs suffer as a consequence.
A Codic Cortex is an brain implant used to overcome this, through granting the recipient a shadow[OP:disputed] of the native understanding expected from a fully general artificial intelligence.[OP:NPOV][OP:research][OP:editorialized]
+ Etymology
+ History
+ Ethics
+ Medical concerns
+ Societal concerns
+ Security concerns
+ Financial constraints
+ Limitations
+ Accidents
+ Theory
+ See Also
| Artificial Intelligence | Candidates for Deletion |Hyrule Confed |Transspeciesism |Omega incident |
Tap. Tap.
"Useless."
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...as a programmer. Bullshit. Well, at least we know why that trail stuff was so shitty. They literally have no strategic thinking ability.
Baughn
Healing-type writer
- Location
- Dublin
And this is why that article had so many extra tags.
As another programmer: No, humans aren't very good at this. Programming is hard, and I've yet to see a nontrivial system without serious bugs. Allow them their hyperbole, the article is up for deletion anyway.
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We do have language centers, those are apparently involved in comprehending code(isn't surprising, compare how you see code with how someone who has never coded sees it). The best counterpoint to "AI is good at code" I've heard goes something like this: human intellect is built on neurons, but this doesn't mean that humans understand neurology. Just because the AI is made of code doesn't necessarily mean that it's any better at it than we are(now, it might be sensible to make the AI good at code if you plan on it working with it often).And this is why that article had so many extra tags.
As another programmer: No, humans aren't very good at this. Programming is hard, and I've yet to see a nontrivial system without serious bugs. Allow them their hyperbole, the article is up for deletion anyway.
AckermannFxn
Muffins?
- Location
- East USA-ish
Heh. I suspect one of the arguments against this view uses pointillism to turn the "one pixel" argument on its head. Sure, it still needs an understanding of the big picture, but pointillists turn a mental outline into a color picture one dab of paint at a time.
Mind adding another disputed after "suffer as a consequence."?
wouldn't an AI being familiar with coding be like a organic individual who's been trained in biology, medicine or first aid?
UrsaTempest
Don't Panic!
Huh, Hana is more... expressive, compared to previous snips. And cheerful.
because she's been forced out of her shell some. i've spent time as a recluse and it can really fuck with your ability to express yourself and your emotional state.
Oh dear. Sono and Oren have screwed up big time. They just got a genius scientist in the field of cybernetics interested in their superhuman friend. She's definitely not the kind of person that they want involved in this. Lyro might not mean any harm, but I can't see her involvement ending with Hana still living a fairly mundane life.
I'd been thinking that Hana would be exposed fending off a Space Pirate raid, but with Lyro involved we might see some Shadow Runners pull something instead. Lyro looks like she's a high ranking scientist in some sci-fi mega-corporation and that always means shenanigans.
I'd been thinking that Hana would be exposed fending off a Space Pirate raid, but with Lyro involved we might see some Shadow Runners pull something instead. Lyro looks like she's a high ranking scientist in some sci-fi mega-corporation and that always means shenanigans.
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I'm loving the story so far. You really do bring out your characters wonderfully @Einsig. And while the slice of life is quite nice I am left wondering where the real meat of the story is. The mystery you have going on with Hana's friends trying to figure out just what the hell is up with her is fun but I think it would be better told solely from their POV. At least while the "mystery" is going on. Hana herself is also likely going to have to leave at some point so she can go on a journey of self discovery or something to find out just what the fuck is up with her existence. Samus needs to show up at some point because the setting isn't really Metroid without her and the Metroids.
Don't get me wrong though, this is all quite enjoyable in and of itself but... I suppose I'm impatient? There isn't much to define this from your character in Generic Mc sci-fi Land as apposed to being in the Metroid universe. Yeah, she encountered space pirates but they themselves are somewhat generic.
Don't get me wrong though, this is all quite enjoyable in and of itself but... I suppose I'm impatient? There isn't much to define this from your character in Generic Mc sci-fi Land as apposed to being in the Metroid universe. Yeah, she encountered space pirates but they themselves are somewhat generic.
- Location
- EXA_PICO
- Pronouns
- He/Him
That's all happening next arc, which is coming rather soon.
Baughn
Healing-type writer
- Location
- Dublin
Kinda? Sorta?
The difference is—
Exactly that.
In real life, most of the "AIs" we've got aren't specialised for working with code, and they're primitive enough that only the things they're specialised in work at all. It's often assumed that, in order to get human-level AI, we first need to make a less clever AI that happens to be unusually good at coding AIs. That's not necessarily an absolute requirement, but it's a reasonable assumption.[1]
The difference between a human trained in coding, and an AI specialised in coding, is that the latter can be tailored from the ground up to work in whichever way is most beneficial for understanding programs.
All of that being said, Hana's "specialty" is in fact "being human". That was the entire point of that AI project; they already had military and other utility AIs, they wanted people, and they got them. They could have made them without any special facility in programming, except that song magic is a form of programming—which Hana is good enough at to do subconsciously.
To the best of my knowledge, the Metroid universe doesn't have any human-level AIs small enough that they could pass for human. That's her best defence here—it's very hard to believe that she is what she is.
---
1: So, when the young-but-clever AI slices through every computer security measure humanity has made as if they aren't there? That's actually a reasonable outcome, because in computer security you have to be perfect to absolutely exclude it, and humans aren't perfect. It's not a guaranteed outcome, by any means, but it's a reasonable one.
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- Location
- EXA_PICO
- Pronouns
- He/Him
There are the Elysians, but they definitely don't pass off as human in any way.
The biggest problem with coding and the difference between an AI and a biological entity isn't one of computational capability or even capacity to understand the code. We humans are presumably the ones who made the code in the first place even if it evolved and became more complex on it's own it would still be doing so in ways that we programmed and thus in ways we could understand. The problem is one of perception. You people being here, I will assume that you have read a book or two in your lives. How accurately can you recall the 8th or 30th page of a book by the time you are near the end? Can you quote the pages word for word? An AI wouldn't really need to because the book itself would be right there and available in it's entirety to it's whims. Unlike a human, an AI would be capable of observing code in it's entirety and thus finding conflicts, bugs, typos and other problems quite a bit more easily.
As a way of bypassing the typical input output limitations of not having a direct connection, the codex cortex could quite easily make someone a match for an equally intelligent AI. Hell, it would be a major boon even if it only provided the ability to upload language packs.
Thinking about how I would design an implant like this it would likely be non-networked if only for sake of security. Maybe with a port to allow for updates without going through surgery again but I suspect that proprietary high security models would lack that. At the lowest models it probably only acts as a boost to learning languages. Just providing enhanced recall would allow for a major boost in that area. Higher end models likely provide for the storage of uncompiled code that can be recalled on a whim and calculation assistance.
In the end though, it's really just a non-volatile memory augment that allows the brain to do what it does better. If it was anything more than that the mother wouldn't be bothering with a haptic interface and glasses in the first place.
As a way of bypassing the typical input output limitations of not having a direct connection, the codex cortex could quite easily make someone a match for an equally intelligent AI. Hell, it would be a major boon even if it only provided the ability to upload language packs.
Thinking about how I would design an implant like this it would likely be non-networked if only for sake of security. Maybe with a port to allow for updates without going through surgery again but I suspect that proprietary high security models would lack that. At the lowest models it probably only acts as a boost to learning languages. Just providing enhanced recall would allow for a major boost in that area. Higher end models likely provide for the storage of uncompiled code that can be recalled on a whim and calculation assistance.
In the end though, it's really just a non-volatile memory augment that allows the brain to do what it does better. If it was anything more than that the mother wouldn't be bothering with a haptic interface and glasses in the first place.
Baughn
Healing-type writer
- Location
- Dublin
Sono and Oren are treading a dangerous path, but this wasn't their fuckup. Sono would have likely invited Hana even if she had no ulterior motives at all, and Hana managed to interest Lyro all on her own.