Very impartial for who wins the first vote, since I'm starting to think that Selune is well worth the arete spent but arete is still a very precious resource and both the other options have also caught my interest one way or another.

[X] The Ring of Power: Crimson Flare

As someone who's always supported Edeldross-boosting options, I can't exactly place why this time it doesn't click to me as well as before. Maybe I've just been swayed by the tantalizing utility effects the Ring promises us, coupled with an impressive amount of combat power... I've also been thinking of how we could make us of that "refunding" feature, for example we could buy Augment Dominion shortly after Crimson Flare, improve our mastery of blood to an even greater Rank and then get back what we spent for it once we free the Azure Ring. Efficiency! :grin:
 
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I mean, maybe there's no other contestants at all and we are just being paranoid. But using two of the three examples Rihaku gave of a possible contestant, Sliver is definitely not enough. We'd basically have to gamble that it's just dudes somewhat above Hunger, and not an Armament Pilot, or even Human Sphere higher-ups who can deploy Armaments, etc. If the thread thinks it's too risky now; I don't think they will be able to accept it even after Sliver.

In that case, we'll have to get Flare as our third panoply EFB anyway and make ruling ring our second Ring EFB, unless you don't think getting a special advancement or the effects of flare are useful pre Ruling Ring. If we take Flare now, we'll have to put it off till after we get a Evening Star anyway. Best case scenario we work up to getting the Ring while benefiting from being a mercenary for the Inner Temple, but Wreath, Ennoblement, and having multiple high power protectors on it's own isn't nothing for us to sell.

Keep in mind here, that we don't get the capabilities you're talking about in your earlier till after we save the ring, so any social solution is going to involve us having to convince them to both give us this sort of leverage and that we're capability before we have the ability to carry it out with their acceptance relying in their trust in us.
 
[ ] Gondar Hrsillimas

Gondar Hrsillimas is a man on a mission. Not only did this presumptuously-named "Lord Hunger" brutally dismember his apprentice and slay his best (and only) friend, he has all but disappeared from the Temple environs, presumably on some form of training trip. Given his demonstrated speed of advancement (or hidden powers), this can only bode poorly for the society in the Temple. The Inners have always favored a passive strategy, their well-regimented lives of luxury leaving their minds feeble and lax. For all that the administration is worthless, however, ten million innocent lives are at stake. Gondar can do nothing less than his utmost; to forsake his path would be unconscionable dereliction of duty. Now that Chief Coordinator Thran has passed the matter of the R-type to him, he will do what he does best: hunt.

Gondar is hostile, but socially inept. He could be convinced of your sincere desire to defect, but would not be happy about it. This will bias him against you; he will shoot first and ask questions later. Unlike the others, Gondar will not wait for Hunger to return to the Temple; he is actively hunting you within the Voyaging Realm, and depending on how much time you spend outside, may ambush you while you are traveling.

*Rank 4.5
*Defensive Rank
*Physical Parameters: Slightly superior AGI, vastly inferior STR and CON compared to Hunger.
*Soul Evocation: The Arrow. Gondar is an unparalleled master of the ranger arts. His skill with a bow is second to none among all ten million souls of the Temple's civilization. He is a terrifyingly proficient tracker, hunter, marksman and survivalist. His arrows can produce countless offensive exotic effects; rare is the foe he cannot fell in one shot, though none of these individual effects can match Vanreir's thrust in potency.
Enthusiasm: Fanatical. Gondar is determined to end your life.
The easiest encounter if it comes to combat but easier does not mean easy and it will turn to combat if we pick this. He can be convinced that we're ready to defect, sure, but given that he'll shoot first and ask questions later... Also, the most dangerous choice for our allies.
[ ] High Marshall Avecarn

The world-weary High Marshall served seven decades in the outriders before finally retiring to the Inner Ring. A mighty warrior and tactician beyond compare, he is resentful at being summoned out of his now-idyllic life to steamroll some uninteresting R-type. That the Council considers itself unquestionable does not mean it can expect the enthusiasm of its hunting hounds when it would deny them even basic knowledge of the entity they face. He suspects, perhaps rightly, that the Council's divinations were defeated by this R-type's protections and they have decided to drop the hammer, employing massive overkill in lieu of more direct solutions.

Avecarn wishes only to get this over with as soon as possible. He would much rather be tending his gardens and spoiling his grandchildren than have anything to do with you. His expansive experience and formidable Rank make him difficult to deceive, however.

*Rank 6.5
*Active Astral Rank
*Physical parameters: Generally below Hunger's. A battle would not be as suicidal as your respective Ranks would indicate, though his Soul Evocation, below, does further advantage him against beings of lower Rank.
*Soul Evocation: The Administration. While he fights best alongside a group of underlings, Avecarn has a broad and deep enough well of effects to comport himself well in personal combat. Order and hierarchy in all their forms are his weapons. Authority equals asskicking, after all.
*Enthusiasm: Minimal. If he can be convinced of your sincerity, motivated reasoning would ensure he would have no problem accepting that you've turned your coat. One does not grow to be a solider of Avecarn's age by taking undue risks in battle. Who is to say you do not have some sort of trump card that could narrow or overcome the apparent harrowing gap between you?
A risky option... It should be a lot easier to convince him that we want to defect than Gondar but if it does turn into a fight the prospects are pretty bad. Sure, it's not as suicidal as the respective Ranks of Hunger and Avecarn indicates but it's still probably pretty suicidal.
[ ] Selune vi Tries [Cost: 4 Arete]

As you may have guessed from her name, Selune is actually a very, very distant cousin of your very own Letrizia von Artriez! She is excited to meet another member of her family, especially from Outside - and positively ecstatic to witness their family legacy, the legendary Devouring Armament, in action herself!

This is her first major assignment. She politicked herself onto the post due to going stir-crazy from the circumscribed lifestyle of an Inner Temple heiress. Though she is powerful for her age, her techniques are unrefined, having never been exposed to the fires of true battle. Surely this misunderstanding between Hunger and the Temple can be quickly resolved now that she's on the case!

Selune somewhat resembles Letrizia, though her Soul Evocation grants her superhuman Appearance and Manipulation. She thinks Hunger is totally awesome and could be convinced to escort him past all manner of security checks, waving off the concerns of her fellows by virtue of her Council-granted privilege. Selune sits the Council as a junior member and her authority cannot be countermanded by any Outrider, bureaucrat, military commander, or non-Council nobleman or woman.

If unselected, the vi Tries family does not exist on the Council of the Inner Temple. They may not exist at all...

*Rank: 3.5
*Bodyguard's Rank: 5
*Defensive Rank
*Physical parameters: vastly below Hunger's, but her bodyguard is almost a match for him.
*Soul Evocation: The Lunar. Selune possesses superhuman grace and shapeshifting capabilities, and can call upon a number of moon-based evocations to blast, banish, confuse or disorient her foes.
Enthusiasm: Friendly. Selune could care less about stuffy concerns like Temple security. She will not doubt be exceedingly distraught if her easily-proofread trust is betrayed. Should her suspicions be roused, her superhuman social instincts will ferret out deception instantly, but she is far too careless to be overmuch concerned at this juncture.
The safe option that's going to get us exactly where we want to be with the less fuss possible. The only problem is that 4 Arete price tag when we're this close to getting an EFB... Also, some people don't want us to have to betray someone this friendly?
[ ] The Ring of Power: Crimson Flare - 25 Arete. (0 picks, but requires Chief Dominion)

Call'd the ring in direst hour;
Azure's brethren faces turned.
Yet came the Lord its cause to flower;
then saw its keepers, to ruin burned.

Forgotten not, the debt of Time
when all its kind had turned their backs;
Not Hunger ring, its steed to ride,
brought Temple low, rapine and sack.

And debt unpaid shall not abide.


The crimson jewel blazes with a hallowed, piercing light, its glory to outshine sun and stars, all made abject by its presence. This is attainment of a height that disdains mere power, the Jewel of Blood unveiled in truth.

Elevates the wielder's Rank by a variable amount [Currently: to 5]
+2 Rank for purposes of wielding the Chief Dominion.

If the Azure Ring is saved:
Further increases the scope, power, and control of the Chief Dominion, beyond even the limits of the Ruling Ring.*
Obsoletes and refunds: Augment Dominion: Blood, Sublime Transfusion, Ennobling
The Azure Ring will submit to the Crimson in the next contest of primacy.

*Example effects: Individuals can be Ennobled in hours, small populations in days, large populations in months. Levels above Ennoblement can be researched and acquired, potentially without Arete expenditure. Verschlengorge can be healed to Rank 6 in hours, to Rank 7 in days, to Rank 7.5 in weeks. Enemies of Rank 4 or lower can be rendered comatose with a gesture; those of merely equivalent Rank (5) would suffer crippling disadvantage.
Thank you Rihaku. I was despairing at the fact that the Thread was committed to getting an EFB but didn't want to go for the triple blade achievement and that all the more power oriented EFBs were aligned with the blade, and here comes Rihaku with two non-blade power focused EFBs. Truly this is Grace, unasked for, undeserved.

That said Crimson Flare is very good. As Rihaku as stated, this is not far behind Once and Future in terms of immediate combat power and possibly even ahead, while providing far more utility. A lot of the abilities this provides are locked behind rescuing the Azure Ring, though. Less synergistic with our build than Silver too.
[ ] Evening Sky: Silver of Evening - 25 Arete (1 pick)

Inset in the crown of evening is a star of purest edeldross; its wearer becomes swift as nightfall after the sun's passing, beautiful as the naked stars, and sacred as midnight itself. For all spheres of magic in Evening reside: its wearer their master, and champion besides.

Double the Magnitude of present and future Edeldross enhancements.
+100% to the value of AGI and Charisma +s
+1 Defensive Rank
Once per sidereal month, perfectly defeat any one hostile effect to which the wearer would otherwise be subject. Applied against a Curse, grants two stages of mitigation for one day and one night. May apply even to the Doom of the Tyrant.
The most synergistic option, perfect for our current build. Provides a lot of power while still offering a non-negligible amount of potential as it continue to grow with our mastery of Edeldross. It's also better for our infiltration mission, as it provides a colossal improvement to our Charisma.
[ ] None: Do not invest Arete into long-term planning right now. You simply need every Arete you can spare.
This would commit us to taking either Once and Future or one of the Stance EFBs which the playerbase doesn't want to do, so this is not an option.

So my choice of EFB is pretty obvious but as for the encounter... It really hurts to give up 4 Arete right now when we're this close to an EFB but as a proud member of the Not Dying Party I simply cannot vote for anything but Selune.

[X] Selune vi Tries [Cost: 4 Arete]
[X] Evening Sky: Silver of Evening
- 25 Arete (1 pick)
 
We are also not locked into grabbing ruling ring next, only a ring EFB. If we don't feel ready for ruling ring, we can just grab it later.
And get what? Dead But Dreaming, something that literally showed up once and never again? All the amazing Ring EFBs we haven't seen and don't know how to unlock at all? Maybe we'd just get Flare anyway, and the immediate power of Sliver would leave us in a worse position for the contest than the amazing Pillars progression. Sliver just doesn't go with our long term plans.
In that case, we'll have to get Flare as our third panoply EFB anyway and make ruling ring our second Ring EFB, unless you don't think getting a special advancement or the effects of flare are useful pre Ruling Ring. If we take Flare now, we'll have to put it off till after we get a Evening Star anyway. Best case scenario we work up to getting the Ring while benefiting from being a mercenary for the Inner Temple, but Wreath, Ennoblement, and having multiple high power protectors on it's own isn't nothing for us to sell.
If we are planning to get Flare anyway, then switching Sliver for Pillars would be far better for the long term, both for the contest and just in general. Flare already gives us all the power we need. Sliver very likley won't be enough for the contest at all.
Offering something comparable is only useful if they listen to us in the first place
Keep in mind here, that we don't get the capabilities you're talking about in your earlier till after we save the ring, so any social solution is going to involve us having to convince them to both give us this sort of leverage and that we're capability before we have the ability to carry it out with their acceptance relying in their trust in us.
Good thing we have Selune and Gisena on our side! Ever heard of delegation? If we can just convince Selune, which likely doesn't need double Charisma given how she is described, we'd have a ton of social power already! What's the marginal utility of having three social Juggernauts anyway?
 
Very impartial for who wins the first vote, since I'm starting to think that Selune is well worth the arete spent but arete is still a very precious resource and both the other options have also caught my interest one way or another.

[X] The Ring of Power: Crimson Flare

As someone who's always supported Edeldross-boosting options, I can't exactly place why this time it doesn't click to me as well as before. Maybe I've just been swayed by the tantalizing utility effects the Ring promises us, coupled with an impressive amount of combat power... I've also been thinking of how we could make us of that "refunding" feature, for example we could buy Augment Dominion shortly after Crimson Flare, improve our mastery of blood to an even greater Rank and then get back what we spent for it once we free the Azure Ring. Efficiency! :grin:
Huh, I completely missed the part where we could get Augment Dominion and then refund it. Well that's quite useful.

I don't think there's a lot off value in getting other blood advancements right now tho.
 
[X] High Marshall Avecarn
[X] The Ring of Power: Crimson Flare


Feel confident enough to go with this dude after reading Projectile's tactics post, but Jesus H. Christ am I looking forward to the Temple not being able to escalate by sending in an Even Stronger Powerhouse than the last fucker we killed.
 
@Prospalz Since the cause of None seems to have been lost, can I convince you to switch to Flare? It's way better long term than Sliver while still offering us a great amount of power. It likely allows us to get in a better position to go for Ruling Ring as well by making space for Pillars! I will even throw a vote marker in if you want.
 
If we are planning to get Flare anyway, then switching Sliver for Pillars would be far better for the long term, both for the contest and just in general. Flare already gives us all the power we need. Sliver very likley won't be enough for the contest at all.

Then it's good that if we get Silver and then Flare, we're free to start on a second Panoply set of EFBs rather then going straight for ring, allowing us to take either Pillars or Total Eclipse plus Once and Future before then, which we should already be doing regardless of which EFB we choose here due to the aforementioned potential power of the enemies we face. Keep in mind it's not like the power we get from Silver is going to stay same either, it buffs our Magnitude progression and makes any stats we gain even better.


Good thing we have Selune and Gisena on our side! Ever heard of delegation? If we can just convince Selune, which likely doesn't need double Charisma given how she is described, we'd have a ton of social power already! What's the marginal utility of having three social Juggernauts anyway?

Yes, and the benefits of Silver also apply to people we would delegate too because of the nature of how Edeldross works. That's in fact something i've been arguing this entire time.
 
Tally incoming:
Adhoc vote count started by Conjured Blade on Jun 29, 2020 at 6:11 PM, finished with 507 posts and 62 votes.
 
[X] High Marshall Avecarn
[X] The Ring of Power: Crimson Flare


Feel confident enough to go with this dude after reading Projectile's tactics post, but Jesus H. Christ am I looking forward to the Temple not being able to escalate by sending in an Even Stronger Powerhouse than the last fucker we killed.
"Hey Hunger, on how many levels of escalations are you right now?"

"Dunno Tharn, five? Why?"

"Pfft, you are like a little kid. Watch this!"

[ ] Grand Omega General Master Smashfucker
*Rank
Yes
*Reactive Astral Rank
*Physical parameters: Unknown level of infinite escalations
*Soul Evocation: The Paragon. Permanently increase value of Stats based on your Rank every subjective moment. Permanently increase value of Rank based on your Stats every subjective moment. Reflexively cancel any hostile effect as a free action if your Rank or Stats are superior to opposition. Can replicate any hostile effect you've canceled this way, with your Rank or Stats being used for magnitude of said effect.
*Enthusiasm: SMASHFUCKER SMASH
 
Then it's good that if we get Silver and then Flare, we're free to start on a second Panoply set of EFBs rather then going straight for ring, allowing us to take either Pillars or Total Eclipse plus Once and Future before then, which we should already be doing regardless of which EFB we choose here due to the aforementioned potential power of the enemies we face. Keep in mind it's not like the power we get from Silver is going to stay same either, it buffs our Magnitude progression and makes any stats we gain even better.
Ah, your answer to Sliver plus Flare not giving us a good position for Ruling Ring is to just grab more EFBs, I see. Without even going with the obvious problems of that; Pillars for increased Progression so we can make ourselves safe enough for Ruling ring which gives even more increased Progression is obviously more efficient than anything else. Yes, the bonuses get better with time; but increased progression from Pillars improves everything we have, Edeldross included.
Yes, and the benefits of Silver also apply to people we would delegate too because of the nature of how Edeldross works. That's in fact something i've been arguing this entire time.
No, you see, the point of delegating is to do other things with our effort. If we are getting Sliver to help them then we aren't delegating at all.

The Magnitude boost helps our efforts, of course. +45% Charisma is quite good. But I think it's far from necessary when Selune and Gisena already have superhuman social attributes and and the former an important Council position. Not to mention getting 22 Charisma Hunger, which is complete overkill. Like, why? Must we actually be capable of doing literally everything? Just let the girls have this, please.
 
I mean, maybe there's no other contestants at all and we are just being paranoid. But using two of the three examples Rihaku gave of a possible contestant, Sliver is definitely not enough. We'd basically have to gamble that it's just dudes somewhat above Hunger, and not an Armament Pilot, or even Human Sphere higher-ups who can deploy Armaments, etc. If the thread thinks it's too risky now; I don't think they will be able to accept it even after Sliver.
I'm not convinced we're doomed if it's an Armament pilot and we take Silver
Being within the Voyaging Realm and having the perfect defense offer us considerable protection and between ++Progression, the Special Advancement, and multiplied Stats we could get considerably more powerful than initial estimates of where we'd cap out suggested. It also substantially increases our chances of even surviving to make that choice.

That said, I think the Jewel of Blood is cool as fuck and wanna get it, and it's certainly more suited to primacy than depending on Ruling Ring for our special advancement.
 
Sounds about right. After Smashfucker we take on Captain-Commander Killfuck Soulshitter, Guardian of the Ring, and then we can finally blow this fucking place and go back to the home we don't have anymore.
 
Although basically impossible because of aretenomics, if we had Flare on the way to the temple, we could have farmed some additional picks from monsters healed up Versch attacks.

Well, maybe it is still possible if we actually get one more update devoted to our mercenary girl while we are still inside of sovereignty, but I wouldn't count on it.
 
Silver also significantely increases the bonuses that we gain from ++all stats, going to +++all stats, and in a pinch, almost ++++all stats.
 
[X] High Marshall Avecarn
[X] Evening Sky: Silver of Evening

I, ah, don't want to destroy Selune? She's a spunky up and comer whose enthusiastic about meeting new family, and is doing well enough for herself that she's reached a decently high position even as a junior member, and generally seems to be well off.
And we're planning on ripping up the system she's a part of and doing nicely in by the roots after lying to her face about it so...
 
I'm not convinced we're doomed if it's an Armament pilot and we take Silver
Being within the Voyaging Realm and having the perfect defense offer us considerable protection and between ++Progression, the Special Advancement, and multiplied Stats we could get considerably more powerful than initial estimates of where we'd cap out suggested. It also substantially increases our chances of even surviving to make that choice.
I think Pillars would be safer for this anyway though. Like, the dream is just the Pillars grind into Ruling Ring ring without Flare at all, and we'd be super swole thanks to all that increased Progression and get Trinity. But if must take and EFB before; I think Flare would land us in a better position. Our jaunt into the Temple already has wrap the thread as is, I don't want the additional pressure of also having to worry about the contest right now...
 
[X] High Marshall Avecarn
[X] Evening Sky: Silver of Evening

I, ah, don't want to destroy Selune? She's a spunky up and comer whose enthusiastic about meeting new family, and is doing well enough for herself that she's reached a decently high position even as a junior member, and generally seems to be well off.
And we're planning on ripping up the system she's a part of and doing nicely in by the roots after lying to her face about it so...
By not voting for her you're unmaking her, that's worse than destroying her!
 
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