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A Simple Transaction I

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After catching up I think I'm sticking with my initial vote for now. Hunger's gains have been well-explained by Wolfy, and I think one Thick as Thieves is enough for now. As has been stated, it's rare to get opportunities to increase intelligence or chrarisma after these first few votes, so I'd like to jump on that.
I honestly consider the heartlessness a positive, and not just because Most High conditioned me to p u s h t h e b u t t o n, I swear! We're required to do some pretty awful stuff in the future, such as going into politics or killing people we haven't met.

Having the chutzpah to push through that will be convenient!

More focus on Might's Repose: The Apocryphal curse is inconsistent, and lulls in our high-octane murder-spree could lead to us falling behind the curve. This hedges against that a bit, while also solving the immortality problem.
We're unlikely to continue until immortality is an issue, so that's minor. More important is that it makes our downtime less of a waste, mitigating a downside of Hunger. If we get Yoda'd and end up chilling in an abandoned location deep within some space monster, waiting for the hero of prophecy to fall into our lap, then we're not entirely without gains in the meantime!

I like Gisena. I think hanging out with the Nullity Sorceress will make it likely that we receive another option for antimagic-defense in the future. On the other hand, I think first impressions are irreplaceable, and we need a good one here, since I'm hoping to make us more of an asshole!
 
Thomasfoolery said:
Except we can gorge ourselves in a fraction of the time, and it doesn't need to be continuously budgeted either. Hero should also be able to super-speed eating if he really needs to.
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If we have food, sure. It's not like we will be thrown in a crisis situation next update as people struggle to recover from the giant monster attack. Just imagine demanding four times the normal amount of food, all meat, while having the Doom of the Tyrant; it's certain to go swimmingly.

I think given the situation your concerns about immediate risk are overblown. I'm not choosing Might because it is less risky, though I think it is, it's just that I don't think Feast will be very risky either. I'm choosing it because it is a option that boosts our capabilities in a general way while also letting us dodge Hunger's downside for non-fighting progression. It's more complete, one would say.
 
Tally incoming:
Adhoc vote count started by Conjured Blade on May 21, 2020 at 9:18 PM, finished with 181 posts and 35 votes.
  • [X] Trustworthy Enough
    [X] Sword That Was Stolen - Thick As Thieves
    [X] Hunger - Might's Repose
    [X] Trustworthy Enough
    [X] Sword That Was Stolen - Thick As Thieves
    [X] Hunger - Feast of Lives.
    [X] Trustworthy Enough
    [X] Sword That Was Stolen - Thick As Thieves
    [X] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear
    [X] Forebear's Blade - Fell-Handed Stroke
    [X] Trustworthy Enough
    [X] Forebear's Blade - Unshattered
    [X] Trustworthy Enough
    [X] Hunger - Might's Repose
    [X] Forebear's Blade - Fell-Handed Stroke
    [X] Trustworthy Enough
    [X] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear
    [X] Hunger - Might's Repose
    [X] Keep Your Distance
    [X] Forebear's Blade - Fell-Handed Stroke
    [X] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear
    [X] Trustworthy Enough
    [X] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear
    [X] Keep Your Distance - You know too little at this juncture. Best to prepare countermeasures if you can. [Gain Null Resistance - Your magic can't be reduced below 30% by any source]
    [X] Hunger - Feast of Lives.
    [X] Trustworthy Enough
    [X] Hunger - Might's Repose
    [X] Hunger - Feast of Lives.
    [X] Trustworthy Enough - But the chance is low enough that you aren't terribly concerned. There are far more pressing matters in play. [Take 1 extra Selection below, +Gisena]
    [X] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear - Cloud-shadow of the Forebear's might. Legendary strength and speed, and the resilience to exert them. Can be taken multiple times. [+Might, +Agility]
    [X] Hunger - Feast of Lives. The Ring Hunger brings unnatural vigor, staunching wounds and replenishing blood, but its true strength is evident only at the moment of triumph. Gain modest regeneration and improved health of the body. Briefly gain extreme regeneration upon defeating a non-trivial opponent. [2 picks]
    [X] Keep Your Distance
    [X] Forebear's Blade - Fell-Handed Stroke
    [X] Hunger - Feast of Lives.
    [X] Keep Your Distance
    [X] Keep Your Distance
    [X] Sword That Was Stolen - Thick As Thieves
    [X] Hunger - Might's Repose
    [X] Trustworthy Enough
    [X] Forebear's Blade - Fell-Handed Stroke
    [X] Hunger - Feast of Lives.
    [X] Keep Your Distance - You know too little at this juncture. Best to prepare countermeasures if you can. [Gain Null Resistance - Your magic can't be reduced below 30% by any source]
    [X] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear
    [X] Keep Your Distance
    [X] Hunger - Feast of Lives.
    [X] Trustworthy Enough
    [X] Sword That Was Stolen - Thick As Thieves x3
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Let's analyze the options available to us.
Rihaku said:
[ ] Trustworthy Enough - But the chance is low enough that you aren't terribly concerned. There are far more pressing matters in play. [Take 1 extra Selection below, +Gisena]

[ ] Keep Your Distance - You know too little at this juncture. Best to prepare countermeasures if you can. [Gain Null Resistance - Your magic can't be reduced below 30% by any source]
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Null Resistance would be very nice, particularly given that the Apocryphal Curse will inevitably force us to deal with enemies that can counter our magic, but maintaining a good relationship with Gisena is very important and I prefer the characterization of Trustworthy Enough. Plus, given how good the Selections we have available are, being down one Selection would feel pretty bad.
Rihaku said:
[ ] Sword That Was Stolen - Thick As Thieves - The Forebear's cunning and force of personality. Highly likely to cause mental contamination. Can be taken multiple times. [+Charisma, +Intelligence, +Heartlessness]
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+Intelligence is insanely powerful and something which I don't expect us to have many chances to pick up in the future, add to this the bonus to charisma, which kind of make up for us not picking the charisma boost last vote, and this option would seem to be a slam dunk. But that Heartlessness, though... We were warned about taking care not to become that which we despise and we should probably heed that warning. On the other hand, Odyssial did have Heartlessness 10 and he wasn't evil, right? Also, this pick doesn't really do anything to increase our power in the short term.
Rihaku said:
[ ] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear - Cloud-shadow of the Forebear's might. Legendary strength and speed, and the resilience to exert them. Can be taken multiple times. [+Might, +Agility]
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Kind of boring, but power is power.
Rihaku said:
[ ] Forebear's Blade - Fell-Handed Stroke - A devastating blow of unutterable magnificence from which no recovery is possible. A powerful, but draining strike that inflicts cursed wounds from which spirit and will leak as freely as blood. Resists healing.
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Having a powerful special attack is always useful even though shutting down opponents regeneration is somewhat redundant given Gisena. The fact that it allows us another medium of attack by also targeting an opponent spirit and will is also notable. At first, we'll be forced into using this sparingly, given the cost in physical and spiritual energy, but in time we will inevitably become able to spam it, making this pick good both in the short and in the long term.
Rihaku said:
[ ] Hunger - Feast of Lives. The Ring Hunger brings unnatural vigor, staunching wounds and replenishing blood, but its true strength is evident only at the moment of triumph. Gain modest regeneration and improved health of the body. Briefly gain extreme regeneration upon defeating a non-trivial opponent. [2 picks]
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Stacking mitigation is really useful and certainly not something I expect us to get very often. The regeneration is also pretty useful. Things will go very badly if we ever can't get access to enough meat for any extended period of time, though... And given the existence of the Apocryphal Curse, we can expect to end up in situations were this will actually become a problem.
Rihaku said:
[ ] Hunger - Might's Repose. With every exertion comes a moment of repose; that is nature's proper order. Sleep and physical rest are not inconveniences to be pared away, but an inextricable part of life's rhythms. [2 picks]
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Insanely powerful. We get immortality, it give us immediate power and a bonus to our mental attributes as long as we can sleep at least 9 hours in a day and finally it increase the speed at which we grow, providing incredible synergy with Hunger, allowing us to make use of our time not spent fighting to grow stronger despite the deleterious effect of Hunger on training.
Rihaku said:
[ ] Forebear's Blade - Unshattered. Turn your afflictions into strength. Your body is maimed, your blade broken; that does not mean you yourself are less than whole. Let the Broken Blade be the new complete form of the Forebear's weapon, a symbol of his dynasty shattered by your hand. Let your wounds be the battle-standard, tapestry of the sacrifices your journey demanded of you, forevermore a reminder of victory's cost. [3 picks]
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At the cost of potential (and three picks and permanently remaining a cripple and reach...) we obtain an immense immediate boost in power, allowing us to seize any opportunity that such power would allow us on top of some nice psychological healing. Still, the cost is pretty massive.

All in all, lots of good options here. Won't be unhappy no matter what win. But I think I will go with this:

[X] Trustworthy Enough
[X] Sword That Was Stolen - Thick As Thieves
[X] Hunger - Might's Repose
 
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The problem with thick of thieves isn't that it gives us heartlessness it's that it's implied that we get mental corruption from the tyrant's forebear on top of that. Increasing our intelligence at the cost of becoming the tyrants dad doesn't seem worth it.
 
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LordOfMurder said:
The problem with thick of thieves isn't that it gives us heartlessness it's that it's implied that we get mental corruption from the tyrant's forebear on top of that. Increasing our intelligence at the cost of becoming the tyrants dad doesn't seem worth it.
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Word of Rihaku on what 3 procs looks like for heartless.

forums.sufficientvelocity.com

A Simple Transaction I Original

B-baka! Indeed, Thick as Thieves is amazing! Certainly worth the cost. You should take it three times! i'm not kidding Though, that would kind of give you a bit of a Nameless (probably closer to Liefang) vibe. But not so much that it'd be overpowering, unless you care about becoming more...
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Indeed, Thick as Thieves is amazing! Certainly worth the cost. You should take it three times!

i'm not kidding

Though, that would kind of give you a bit of a Nameless (probably closer to Liefang) vibe. But not so much that it'd be overpowering, unless you care about becoming more ruthless!
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For context, here is a Liefang interlude in Even Further Beyond: Even Further Beyond [Complete] Original

Going off this, 1/3 of that seems... acceptable for the competence boost.
 
We know he died of old age, we know he was the Tyrant's ancestor, we know Hiro barely has a personality. Intentionally, even. Rihaku's still keeping the character mostly open while we settle on things, so I don't see much to contaminate.

In some ways that could be worse! If there's not much there to begin with then a little contamination could go a long way.

Most importantly, I don't care. I like stories about troubled individuals and people struggling with inner demons. Having some evil grandpa in the brain sounds swell.
 
Have to say, I'm liking the less granular approach to Progression. No perks, no attributes, no leveling up. It does give us less feedback, though. We can't just pluck the Devourer's name and stats out of thin air. Some of the original descriptions were enlightening, particularly about perks not originating from the Accursed, but no doubt this flavor will have upsides of its own. Being offered companions is new, though it's no surprise Seram wasn't. Still can't believe we willingly took up the Curse of Gisena.
 
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Heart Vote 1
  • Threadmarks
    • Alright, we didn't quite get to an extra pick, technically speaking, but you guys were only ~8% away, so I'll give it to you but put you into Experience debt equivalent to 14% of the value. If anyone has strong objections to this please let me know. This particular form of debt has no negative repercussions aside from cost.

    Synergy bonuses are not as potent as a true selection.

    [ ] Auspicious Vanguard - First into the breach and ever vigilant. In perilous times, the elimination of weaknesses is key.
    Synergy: Live Another Day - Competence bonus to survive dangerous situations.

    Keep Your Distance [Null Resistance], Fell-Handed Stroke, Echo of the Forebear, Thick As Thieves

    *A build that focuses on minimizing the chances of loss by covering every base.
    *A wide variety of tactics and approaches are available to resolve problems: Gisena's Tide of Nullity + your Null Resistance, allowing you to fight with some superhuman parameters while your enemies are denied their magics; planned ambush via Thick As Thieves + Fell-Handed Stroke, brute combat via Fell-Handed Stroke and Echo of the Forebear, or simple maneuver via Thick as Thieves.
    *Balanced form, a lack of weaknesses is power

    [ ] Nightmare Praetor - Planning and preparation are the keys to victory. Not because things will go to plan, but because greater experience wins the day, and improvisation is merely the accelerated form of preparation.
    Synergy: As Planned - Competence bonus to creating and adjusting schemes.

    Trustworthy Enough, Thick As Thieves x2, Might's Repose

    *The most popular options in one build
    *Stacked intelligence bonuses from Thick as Thieves and Repose noticeably improves decision-making ability
    *A build that focuses on accumulating long-term advantage via mental and social skills
    *Naturally accrues power over time via Might's Repose
    *Still highly dangerous in any fight they have prepared for, and quite potent whenever they are well-rested
    *Better suited to politics & rule than most builds, may be uncomfortably ruthless
    *High Intelligence, Charisma and sleepiness - bonds better with Gisena than other builds

    [ ] Force Unto - Physical dominion and ceaseless momentum have defined your actions so far. No reason to stop now. Aggression and proactive force, a forward spear thrust into the pattern of the world, forcing it to respond to you.
    Synergy: Bright Champion - [+Strength, +Charisma, +Wits]

    Trustworthy Enough, Echo of the Forebear x2, Feast of Life

    *Consistent strength and speed combined with relentless staying power. Overwhelm lesser foes, grind down the mighty with Gisena's bolts and sheer attrition. Gisena covers utility by neutralizing enemy utility, so raw attributes offer high synergy with her style of battle.
    *Seek out battle to grow strong, that you might seek out battle and grow strong... until you are a force unto yourself, with strength enough to carve out your dominion
    *A build that focuses on active growth in the short and medium term via the pursuit of battle
    *Can be risky, especially with the Apocryphal Curse
    *High physical parameters make it pretty good at piloting. Even has magical healing!
    *Powerful synergy bonus

    [ ] Unshattered - Cast aside this fledgling stage. Here, you do not belong. You, who sundered the Tyrant: your purview is the game of kings.
    Synergy: Fell Tempest - Upgrades Fell-Handed Stroke.

    Trustworthy Enough, Fell-Handed Stroke, Unshattered

    *Overwhelming strength and glory of spirit allow you to more or less bypass the early game
    *Power begets power
    *The safest AND psychologically healthiest option
    *Pretty much better than the other options even in their area of specialty; sufficient Rank allows for innate resistance to nullifcation; more effective in combat than A Force Unto, a more powerful schemer than Nightmare. Cuts down opposition in a torrent of fell power, breaking armies and nations with a single demonstration.
    *Permanently crippled and slower advancement going forward
     
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  • Threadmarks
    • [X] Unshattered
    Glorious exalted color, safest, healthiest AND strongest at the cost of a slightly slower advancement speed.
    Our advancement speed is already monstrous + it's boosted by hunger when active + we already start powerful with this option so we will always be ahead of the curve from before.. I see no disadvantages to this option.
     
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    [X] Nightmare Praetor

    If this is what I have to do for Repose, then I will. I admit, the double Thick as Thieves is uncomfortable because of the corruption, but I guess the ++Intelligence ++Charisma pays off.

    The fact that it's centered around enhancing our decision making ability does help make it more appetizing, tbh.

    Besides, we're going to have to become a ruler, so this would make us a lot better at it.
     
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    [X] Nightmare Praetor

    The improved decision making won me over along with being 2/3 Liefang.
     
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    [X] Conjured Blade

    Rihaku said:
    *The strength of age is not the vigor of youth. It is stabler and more fearsome but less expressive, less joyful and innocent. It will not bring back what was lost, merely overwrite it with a power that in time will be far greater.
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    I don't think anyone's paid much attention to this section of the Repose. Considering the theme of the option (sloth and an elder dragon), do we really want to choose this option? Why become an old man in literally our first year under the Geas when we've still got a few octillion to go? We're in our youth as a Cursebearer; we should enjoy it for a while.

    To say nothing of what actually making use of our constant sleeping will do to our legend under Accretion. Moreover, resting is nice but it opens significant avenues of attack for the Apocryphal Curse. Its going to be hard enough to deal with as is without letting them catch us literally sleeping on the job.
     
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