DkArthas
CAPITAL IS TO BLAME
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- Earth
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Well, Edeldross research may actually help Gisena in her own advancements as well.
A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
- Original
Rihaku
The Internet
I don't think you guys have to fear the idea of the death spiral as much as in other games, since Hunger gets considerable raw power from each enemy he defeats, oftentimes offsetting or more than compensating for the Conditions acquired thereby.
Protection would still be really useful in imposing a potentially multiplicative reduction on damage taken (dodge % x reduction % etc) but to get it in relevant quantities in passive form would be pretty expensive (9 Arete, 3 picks, or 16 Arete with Inksky doubling the Protection gained thereby). You can also get the equivalent of Protection from magic systems, such as surge elements or the defensive techniques of the Praxis, and though they might require active casting that's only to be expected of magic.
But the Evening Sky isn't Protection alone, it's also your main source of esoteric options in general! It offers you Agility from Amaranth Star and importantly, Exhaustion Resistance as well! It synergies with the Ring of Blood via Pristine Star to ensure that healing is both quick and flawless. To say it's been neglected is to focus overmuch on only one facet of its abilities. If you intend on buying an Evening Sky EFB anyway to get the Special Advancement, there's no possibility it would truly fall by the wayside, since both Pillars and Total Eclipse offer incredible utility.
Protection would still be really useful in imposing a potentially multiplicative reduction on damage taken (dodge % x reduction % etc) but to get it in relevant quantities in passive form would be pretty expensive (9 Arete, 3 picks, or 16 Arete with Inksky doubling the Protection gained thereby). You can also get the equivalent of Protection from magic systems, such as surge elements or the defensive techniques of the Praxis, and though they might require active casting that's only to be expected of magic.
But the Evening Sky isn't Protection alone, it's also your main source of esoteric options in general! It offers you Agility from Amaranth Star and importantly, Exhaustion Resistance as well! It synergies with the Ring of Blood via Pristine Star to ensure that healing is both quick and flawless. To say it's been neglected is to focus overmuch on only one facet of its abilities. If you intend on buying an Evening Sky EFB anyway to get the Special Advancement, there's no possibility it would truly fall by the wayside, since both Pillars and Total Eclipse offer incredible utility.
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>when the fish aren't biting:
Now I sleep
Now I sleep
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Talace
It must be raining somewhere else!
Here are a few things that I like about this option:
1.) More options that impart resistance to inimical status conditions (and in addition, making the Evening Sky denser and more resilient would make this resilience meaningful)
2.) Creating a giant shroud that lets us massively increase our protective radius (as well as shroud Letrizia and Gisena)
3.) Better and more efficient advancements for something like Winter Moon but better?
4.) I like the aesthetic of Evening Sky
5.) I'm pretty sure Charisma will be important in taking over the world some how
6.) Arete-efficient, even if stats-inefficient. We won't lack for stats in the near future, at least is my take. I'm pretty content with our offensive setup.
1.) More options that impart resistance to inimical status conditions (and in addition, making the Evening Sky denser and more resilient would make this resilience meaningful)
2.) Creating a giant shroud that lets us massively increase our protective radius (as well as shroud Letrizia and Gisena)
3.) Better and more efficient advancements for something like Winter Moon but better?
4.) I like the aesthetic of Evening Sky
5.) I'm pretty sure Charisma will be important in taking over the world some how
6.) Arete-efficient, even if stats-inefficient. We won't lack for stats in the near future, at least is my take. I'm pretty content with our offensive setup.
Zampano
🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
- Location
- Simping for DSB
It isn't obvious to me that protection will solve the problems in our build. The only fight where +PROT would have changed the outcome is Golden Archer.
- The Tunneling Worm required us to dodge the attacks.
- In fairness, maybe +PROT would have affected acid resistance?
- The Magus had us on our knees with a single word
- +PROT would only have helped here if it was paired with the added special effect of magic resistance from evening sky. So Sky would've helped but it is Panoply effects that make the difference; not +PROT STATS
- More importantly, un-buffed Gisena was able to close this vulnerability in our build during combat, so magic vulnerability seems less immediate a problem as long as we don't split the party
- The Outrider caught us in the Knee, and then the lung, based on speed of fire. The cloak did deflect his basic attacks, to be fair
- Amarlt pierced the cloak without hesitation
- The Rotbeastie Prime didn't hurt us; we hurt ourself
If anything, my reading is that PROT has been fading from relevance as time goes on. The prime benefit of the Evening Sky now comes from Philosopher's Wreath and other Magic-system enhancements.
I don't want to confuse the Sky's value as a pre-requisite for value as a magic system of its own.
Not gonna lie, Inksky won't be a quick or easy path. But who here remembers the Philosopher's Wreath? Or the Evening Gown? In terms of sheer variety the Sky already has more to offer than the Blade or Ring.
Since taking Inksky all-but guarantees Pillars instead of Eclipse, it can and should be viewed as an extension of the Pillars. Accordingly the added advancements become a gradient for that higher option, removing its abysmal lack of combat value in exchange for picks. This is... not super synergistic with sledgehammering the Ring and Blade, yes. But the realm of synergy is a powerful thing: Passion with Majesty, Ruin with Night, Accretion with Magic itself...
Hell, if we twist things just right we might be able to use conceptual synergy to discount long-time desired options like Exalted Spirit or Undying Vanguard!
Since taking Inksky all-but guarantees Pillars instead of Eclipse, it can and should be viewed as an extension of the Pillars. Accordingly the added advancements become a gradient for that higher option, removing its abysmal lack of combat value in exchange for picks. This is... not super synergistic with sledgehammering the Ring and Blade, yes. But the realm of synergy is a powerful thing: Passion with Majesty, Ruin with Night, Accretion with Magic itself...
Hell, if we twist things just right we might be able to use conceptual synergy to discount long-time desired options like Exalted Spirit or Undying Vanguard!
The greed is real! We picked the greedy option when we went to the temple, now we need to pick the power to make good on that decision and actually free the Moon Ring.
Do you know how much AGI we have? 23! That means boosting it by 50% is +++++++++++AGI. Speed is the godstat of combat, allowing you to hit and not be hit at the same time, encompassing defence and offense. Even esoteric attacks that cannot be blocked can often be dodged, not to mention simply speed blitzing an enemy before they can deploy them. On top of that we even get a modest rank boost that doesn't shrink with growing rank! The value of +.1 Rank is only going to grow as our rank increases. And Quicksilver's +50% AGI makes any future AGI boosts even better, increasing the value of future stat boosts.
Inksky, on the other hand, doesn't spend our arete efficiently until we can afford to spend 20 more on getting Pillars, when pillars themselves don't give us an immediate power boost either. It is an ultra long-term option. Can we afford to pass a huge, immediate power boost and spend 7 arete on future potential? We're a progression type, we already have near-infinite potential to advance! Do you see us getting Pillars while still in the temple? We have to breach the inner temple, we have absolutely no idea what is there besides a very hard fight. Do you want to gamble everything on evening sky memes?
Ultimatley, the answer is in the update itself. Rihaku straight-up told us what we need, after all.
[X] The Streamline
[X] Quickwater
[X] 7 Arete Version
Do you know how much AGI we have? 23! That means boosting it by 50% is +++++++++++AGI. Speed is the godstat of combat, allowing you to hit and not be hit at the same time, encompassing defence and offense. Even esoteric attacks that cannot be blocked can often be dodged, not to mention simply speed blitzing an enemy before they can deploy them. On top of that we even get a modest rank boost that doesn't shrink with growing rank! The value of +.1 Rank is only going to grow as our rank increases. And Quicksilver's +50% AGI makes any future AGI boosts even better, increasing the value of future stat boosts.
Inksky, on the other hand, doesn't spend our arete efficiently until we can afford to spend 20 more on getting Pillars, when pillars themselves don't give us an immediate power boost either. It is an ultra long-term option. Can we afford to pass a huge, immediate power boost and spend 7 arete on future potential? We're a progression type, we already have near-infinite potential to advance! Do you see us getting Pillars while still in the temple? We have to breach the inner temple, we have absolutely no idea what is there besides a very hard fight. Do you want to gamble everything on evening sky memes?
Ultimatley, the answer is in the update itself. Rihaku straight-up told us what we need, after all.
Not "he would like some immediate power", not "some power would be neat now". He requires power. Not taking power when we're told we need power is incredibly greedy. We have 7 days of curse mitigation left. In that time, we need to make progress against the Inner Temple and further outscale the threats the Curse can throw at us.
[X] The Streamline
[X] Quickwater
[X] 7 Arete Version
- Location
- Italy
Agree to disagree for now, I think that the themes will reveal themselves to be flexible enough to find common ground. We would be retracing old ground with both in a way, of people with distinct interest and personalities and abilities suited to themselves, but that doesn't mean Hunger has to be strictly bound by their progression rather than find a path that feels right to him and no one else.
But leaving aside meaningless theorizing, I do feel that Edeldross is just the more practical choice as focusing on Inksky/Pearlescence right now will just split our build again as it was before Uttermost. We need to find a way to make Evening Sky relevant without investing in stuff that gives diminishing returns, otherwise we'll just be wasting potential to make stuff like the Pearlescence tree viable (not effective, just viable) again. Edeldross is technically an Evening Sky-related (or at least related to one of his EFBs) upgrade as well, so it may be exactly the alternative I'm searching for.
Rihaku
The Internet
You actually have +30 with the Willpower bonus, making Quickwater even better! Quickwater offers both great focus on Hunger's existing strengths and the opportunity of a versatile magic system in the future. It's sadly overlooked!
Earlier I was going back-and-forth between Edeldross and Inksky. It got so bad at one point I wanted to vote Quickwater just out of spite.
Rihaku
The Internet
Btw, the "everyone makes magic systems for each other" omakes were very wholesome. I regret that it overlapped almost exactly with the time I was writing the update. We should compile the various systems into a single post!
Also, I'm frankly shocked at how close this hot springs vote is! You guys are really frugal!
Also, I'm frankly shocked at how close this hot springs vote is! You guys are really frugal!
- Location
- Philippines
alright okay so
as rihaku stated, we probably should not mono-focus on +Protection since technically, that isn't all our boi evening sky has done for us
It basically acts as our Charisma battery, and generally our "esoteric" battery. ring is progression, sword if for murdering, and mantle is for support and utility.
if we look at it that way, then mainly focusing on the effects of solely inksky? yeah, it might fall off comparedto edelross or whichever it's actually spelled because fuck my english.
edelgross basically lets us bank stuff for gisena to do, okay but can we not do the same for evening sky. half the stuff we've seen from it was meant to be spread to the party for additional buffs instead of just letting hunger cut better. (cut=murder due to cut through law)
Not picking InkSky as our Surgecraft becomes easier to swallow if we frame it less as being an integral part of Evening Sky because whether we pick it or not, Evening Sky will still retain the variety of options it has. i.e. stuff like Evening Gown, PWreath, other buffing techtrees.
Edenross, on the other hand, basically bumps everything up and opens up more options by giving us access to 10% effectivity of all Graces. and you know what that means? it means that there is the chance that our Evening Sky can benefit from having X amounts of usable graces integrated into it for additional buff/utility stuff.
so like, instead of increasing specific aspects of ES via InkSky, we can increase its overall efficacy and variability by adding more options we can meld it with
i dunno, i just really like evening sky and i've just reached a point where i don't know anymore and i'm trying to delude myself to thinking that we can still make it relevant by pouring eldengross into it.
if any one's got like, more stuff for possible synergy and shit that would power up Evening Sky despite not picking InkSky then maybe that might help for the other choices while mitigating the built up salt for the unequal amount of fucks distributed for our panoply.
Ahem.
InkSky Good. But ElvishFloss and FastLiquid might be more palatable if it can be shown how it can also make evening sky less of a gear-let.
#380 words maybe for half rambling on trying to bind the choices together maybe
as rihaku stated, we probably should not mono-focus on +Protection since technically, that isn't all our boi evening sky has done for us
It basically acts as our Charisma battery, and generally our "esoteric" battery. ring is progression, sword if for murdering, and mantle is for support and utility.
if we look at it that way, then mainly focusing on the effects of solely inksky? yeah, it might fall off comparedto edelross or whichever it's actually spelled because fuck my english.
edelgross basically lets us bank stuff for gisena to do, okay but can we not do the same for evening sky. half the stuff we've seen from it was meant to be spread to the party for additional buffs instead of just letting hunger cut better. (cut=murder due to cut through law)
Not picking InkSky as our Surgecraft becomes easier to swallow if we frame it less as being an integral part of Evening Sky because whether we pick it or not, Evening Sky will still retain the variety of options it has. i.e. stuff like Evening Gown, PWreath, other buffing techtrees.
Edenross, on the other hand, basically bumps everything up and opens up more options by giving us access to 10% effectivity of all Graces. and you know what that means? it means that there is the chance that our Evening Sky can benefit from having X amounts of usable graces integrated into it for additional buff/utility stuff.
so like, instead of increasing specific aspects of ES via InkSky, we can increase its overall efficacy and variability by adding more options we can meld it with
i dunno, i just really like evening sky and i've just reached a point where i don't know anymore and i'm trying to delude myself to thinking that we can still make it relevant by pouring eldengross into it.
if any one's got like, more stuff for possible synergy and shit that would power up Evening Sky despite not picking InkSky then maybe that might help for the other choices while mitigating the built up salt for the unequal amount of fucks distributed for our panoply.
Ahem.
InkSky Good. But ElvishFloss and FastLiquid might be more palatable if it can be shown how it can also make evening sky less of a gear-let.
#380 words maybe for half rambling on trying to bind the choices together maybe
- Location
- Philippines
also only half sorry for double posting but since Rihaku re-mentioned the Magic Style for our fellow thread voters,
I'd like to make an appeal to our verbose and creative dudes pls make one for Byzantine. dude's done enough for the thread to deserve it even if its post-activity. kinda like a severance pay maybe on top of the signature thing? i dunno im tired /ff10tiduslaughhere
I'd like to make an appeal to our verbose and creative dudes pls make one for Byzantine. dude's done enough for the thread to deserve it even if its post-activity. kinda like a severance pay maybe on top of the signature thing? i dunno im tired /ff10tiduslaughhere
Duquette7
I am Fire, and I am Rain
[X] The Streamline
[X] Quickwater
[X] 7 Arete Version
Gah, they are all great, I love the synergy and efficiency of Inksky, the path to true perfection inherent in Edeldross, but Quickwater man, that description is so beautiful, I hate potions, I think they suck, but the ten thousand variations must have good stuff.
It would be very easy to change my mind right now, but I have to go to bed, I'll see where things stand in the morning, night all.
[X] Quickwater
[X] 7 Arete Version
Gah, they are all great, I love the synergy and efficiency of Inksky, the path to true perfection inherent in Edeldross, but Quickwater man, that description is so beautiful, I hate potions, I think they suck, but the ten thousand variations must have good stuff.
It would be very easy to change my mind right now, but I have to go to bed, I'll see where things stand in the morning, night all.
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10% effectiveness of all Graces was what I thought on first readthrough too, but going over it a second time I interpreted it as giving us a tenth of possible Graces. So if I understood it correctly there's a subset of Graces we'll have access to rather than having all Graces at tenth of their power.
Which is probably better, as the Maiden possessed a lot of Graces.
Say no more. Worrying about mechanics goes against the spirit of maximum relaxation. Let Hunger put in all his effort and spare no expense, no matter the consequences.
[X] The Kaguya
And Hunger's actual wife is the best waifu, so...
[X] Edeldross
- Location
- Philippines
we are the evening sky
the constellations are the people under our protection
pretty sure lordofmurder would be ecstatic at the thought of a star constellation being named after g-null.
they'll be like tattoos! well, more like embroidery really since it'll be on cloth and not our skin...unless we become the evening sky itself hahehahe
Rihaku
The Internet
Indeed... perhaps this is the path of doing one's Uttermost.
Rihaku
The Internet
Hunger in monochrome!
Looks good! I like the 'visual effect' of the Ring's influence.