- Location
- Omniverse #1345
I suspect our base chances of winning are 0%, but our chances of dialog are close to 50%. Hence an improvement.
A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
- Original
Rihaku
The Internet
The Ring Hunger triggers upon "defeat," not "death."
Basically he sets the parameters of the attack in his mind and then unstoppably executes it. 'Parameters' can include 'range beyond the physical reach of my sword,' etc. Is that infinite range? You don't know.
That would be somewhat insulting to many martial artists! Wholehearted execution of, say, a strong right jab from your typical basic karate stance includes a clear stopping point and withdrawal! Failing to do so would mean you're not even performing the same attack!
A wise choice.
Projectile
Thinking of Rabbits
- Location
- USA
Was checking to see the first description of how blade projection works, turns out Hunger also knows the power of T H R U S T.
But I wanted to know how much movement was required for bladewind, because my default answer to problems is now bladewind spam. And this time, I really do mean spam. Hunger can work out the technical details, being the guy with the sword, but spit those fuckers out as fast as possible, even if they're weak*. He has a single perfect cut, let us embrace the power of imperfection.
The idea being that the perfect, committed thrust takes time, effort, and space to breathe, so we should harry him as much as possible. With Bladewinds. Because Bladewind spam. I have a clear image in my head of why this could work, but I'm having trouble expressing it better than "we can do more attacks bruh".
*One looooong swing with repeated projections as fast as the soul can spit them? Not sure if that's cheating. I'm pretty sure that this could also mean spinning, lol. We can manipulate blade projections after they're launched, so direction isn't super important.
Rihaku
The Internet
Current vote count?
SORD
SORD
Zampano
🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
- Location
- Simping for DSB
this is brilliant imo, except that we've seen the Ring take some time to consolidate power from kills into new techniques. It'd leave us vulnerable while we digest the killsteal.
I think that the only outstanding question I have is whether Resolve's "+50% chance to suffer a devastating condition if victorious" is in percent vs. percentage points. Maybe we have a baseline 2% chance of a devastating condition if victorious, and Resolve changes that to 3%
#hopeful
LordOfMurder
Bhaal
- Location
- Australia
Even if we're not actually related to him there's probably enough circumstantial evidence to at pretend to be to improve diplomacy chances. Given this guy is apparently burning his lifeforce to secure a safe and prosperous lifestyle for his little sister he clearly cares about family a great deal.
Trying to debuff the knight commander by using the blood of lesser knights would've been possible but taken to long, however his sister seems like she's still young and not that powerful. So I wonder if using some of the blood he's shed here would be enough to take her hostage. "Cock that blade and your sister's heart stops.".
I support these tactics.
Edit: and what Thomasfoolery is pitching right above this post, that's
Maragas
Nothing to see here.
- Location
- Tree House
If only we had Shadow Clones! Or illusions
They would massively help against this guy.
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
To target a single individual through an incredibly tight blood and spiritual bond? ...I think we could do that, credibly enough. Particularly if we played up the Forebear connection.
Projectile
Thinking of Rabbits
- Location
- USA
I unsupport these tactics, even though I give props to you for the cool thinking. It's too mean. ;_;
- Location
- Earth
[X] R-Type #1
[X] Preparation: Withdrawal
[X] Preparation: Dialogue
What have we gotten ourselves into...
[X] Preparation: Withdrawal
[X] Preparation: Dialogue
What have we gotten ourselves into...
- Location
- Brazil
That's...very freaking omnious. I'm curious, would Hunger be willing to leave the temple afterwards, or is he as commited to this as some voters are?
[X] R-Type #1
[X] Preparation: Withdrawal
[X] Preparation: Focus
[X] Preparation: Withdrawal
[X] Preparation: Focus
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
I only support it as a last-ditch effort, if all else fails.
ImperatorV
The Laughing One
- Location
- The Voyaging Realm
Winning by threatening the guy's family would certainly be... a thing. The emotional effects of Hunger achieving victory by holding an innocent hostage would be compelling to read about, at least.
Projectile
Thinking of Rabbits
- Location
- USA
Okay, so. Can we spit out some bladewinds, Fell-Handed if possible, take control of them, and bring them circling around/above us in wait? The timing wouldn't have to be so tight, and he'd have more to be wary of, and bringing them all to bear at once to punish him for a thrust could be devastating. Would be exhausting, even with Fall of Night, I'd bet. But I'd really like to turn this into a Bullet Hell game. A Thousand Cuts.
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If this guy is as straightforward as the update suggests I am not sure that trying to take a relative hostage is such a great idea. I mean this is a guy who solves problems with a single type of move and has great confidence in his abilities. Not only that but we do not even know the extent so which we can push the power of the ring as of yet so who knows if he won't just call our bluff and manage to run us through despite the debuff.
I think it would be wise to probe out his situation in regards to how he is way more powerful than the other individuals we have encountered and try to gain ground from there while trying to make use of our blood abilities in mor subtle ways, perhaps trying to increase our affinity if it is indeed blood based.
To truly get this guy to turn we need to establish what he wants, why he will not be able to get it from his civilization, why we are a good answer to his problems, and that he can trust us in the first place. Perhaps discretion would sever us well here or perhaps confrontation, but if we are going to try and turn him we need to present more compelling reasons than a strange affinity.
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Talace
It must be raining somewhere else!
TACTICS TACTICS TACTICS (709 words):
I remember posting some stuff that might be useful about dealing with thrusts:
Here are other ideas to handle unstoppable linear thrusts (with jabbing versions):
I remember posting some stuff that might be useful about dealing with thrusts:
Here are other ideas to handle unstoppable linear thrusts (with jabbing versions):
- Deflecting the thrust into the ground. This can be done by redirecting it's momentum downards into the ground using a Fell-Handed Stroke on the side of his blade. If this is done successfully, we pretty much win the fight since he has no weapon for the time it takes for him to pull it out. The overextension would be pretty grave, and the pierce-through maximum seems to kind of encourage that, so ideally we give him something exceedingly difficult to pierce through.
- Take a hit, and use that to destroy his sword. This should win us the fight if we move into our Second Stage and he has no weapon (although maybe being unerring applies to hand to hand?)
- If his sword really is unstoppable, then trying to guard would be pretty useless. Instead, we can try and attack from range and refuse to get within the radius of his blade. This doesn't mean attacking from really far (which would be cool too, but I doubt he'd let us get away with that) but instead spamming our blade-winds to force him into situations where he can't thrust. This could look like forcing him to block blade-winds head on which would force him to block vertically (making it harder for him to realign his sword back to thrusting position) or simply shredding his backfoot so he can't gather up the momentum for a thrust.
- He is really desperate to kill us for the sake of his sister. We can run away and use his desperation to force him into unfavorable terrain. Again, this looks like terrain where you have unsteady ground, and the linear force of his attack can be disrupted or waylaid.
- Get inside his guard, and making thrusting difficult because you're within punching distance and he can't redirect his sword. He probably won't intentionally let us do this, but we can go ghost and go for punching him to death. Maybe Rank could suppress his initiative, or perhaps knock his sword to the side so he's temporarily disoriented (this would also weaken us for swordfighting which is why he would let us do something like that, but would make his guard less defended)
- He can't cancel out of his thrusts. This means feints are the most effective way to get him to overextend.
- The Amarlts had a eugenics program. This guy might be part of that program, and we can mess with his blood to reduce the stat bonuses from his birth.
- His sword is made of crystal steel, and while crystal is extraordinarily hard, perhaps we can find a weak spot to cause it to shatter with probing strikes.
- His union (Return?) with his father is costly, taking away years of life and his energy. Perhaps we can use blood to speed up the process?
- His eye is gone. Fuck with his depth perception, abuse it from attacking at range.
- His left arm is useless, he'll likely be using his right arm. Attack his left side, force him to defend harsh, ringing strikes that force him to overextend, then strike once at his right while he is over-extended. This is relevant beause either his right hand is his main hand and he'll not be used to defending with his right, or his left hand is his main hand and he won't expect us to go for his strong side.
- The parallels and symmetries are eerie: reliance on a Forebear, single and unerring determination towards a goal, even the saying "Strike a thousand times, or make one strike that tells." Perhaps this is a quirk of our Rank, perhaps something destiny-related, maybe he might be the next Ringbearer for the Moon Ring. I wouldn't be surprised if he was eligible for taking on some Curses himself.
- Probably not combat useful, but I find the places where Hunger and Vanreir differ to be more interesting. Hunger's determination is towards his vengeance, Vanreir's is for the sake of another. Hunger was wronged and seeks to right those wrongs, Vanreir simply wants to move on and keep his sister safe. Perhaps... Vanreir is the good guy?
- Location
- Brazil
We have blood-sense, he does not. Trying to obscure vision as much as possible might be quite helpful in this fight, and would help with withdrawl. Maybe attack the enviorment to try and get dust to obscure vision. Range might be meaningless, but he still needs to know where we are to kill us.
- Location
- Pindorama
Since his mentality is all about reducing his actions into a "simplest" form; both dialogue and fighting are well served by trying to break that naive worldview of his. Hunger is well positioned to do it, in this respect; he knows that sacrifice, even of what he held most dear, is not the end; nor is it enough to overturn the systems of a world. If he gives of himself so utterly to achieve his ends, by the end they are just going to snuff him out. It happened to his father, and it will likely happen to his sister too. He is just a pawn to them, useful in the moment but discarded the moment he becomes an inconvenience. If he spends himself, sacrifices himself, he won't be able to protect what he holds most dear. Only by walking away, or by breaking the system, he can have peace.
He can be powerful by committing everything to a single thrust, a linear action, but the world is a far bigger place than that. By single-mindedly pursuing this goal, devoting everything towards that single action, he becomes unable to see the bigger picture. To see the exploitation and tragedy for what it is, and that becoming an Inner Resident won't be the end; far from it. We have to make him see this.
He can be powerful by committing everything to a single thrust, a linear action, but the world is a far bigger place than that. By single-mindedly pursuing this goal, devoting everything towards that single action, he becomes unable to see the bigger picture. To see the exploitation and tragedy for what it is, and that becoming an Inner Resident won't be the end; far from it. We have to make him see this.
Haha, it is quite dickish, we could always turn the heart back on if he wised up though.
The straightforwardness is why I think it would work personally, his whole goal is to have her live and be happy inside, her death is the biggest failure state. Other set backs could be worked around. That said even though Rihaku said we could use knowledge from this update for tactics this is such a specific thing Hunger would have to intuit I'm not sure how he could.