I really feel that Stranglethorn is the way to go if we end up retreating, the gap between Momentum isn't unsurpassedly wide though, so an aggressive build still has a chance to be useful.

The thing about Stranglethorn is that it's not a judgement of -20% AGI for the benefits; it's taking that choice vs. taking anything else for our Defining Advancement. We haven't seen any other defining advancements yet, why would we take something that would lock other possibilties out entirely before we even know what they are? It's entirely possible that the other potential Defining Advancements are just as powerful and are so in a way that doesn't conflict with our immediate priorities. I think limiting our options so soon would be a mistake.

It doesn't lock out other possibilities though? We can have three. I also don't think it conflicts with our immediate priorities, the idea that every enemy we fight here is going to benefit from Agi so disproportionately doesn't seem particularly likely to me.

of course Gisena would Nullify everyone's ability to play the game...

Haha, the only question is who doesn't get invited back for ruining the game worse, "Blanket Flipper" Verschle, or "Rules as Written" Gisena.
 
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I'd like to discuss short term build prospects for Ordinalism if somehow we unlock it. For the people who weren't here for Gardens of Enoch, Ordinalism is a 26 level magic system that peaks at being able to fight Lovecraftian entities and at the 20th Ordinal you can have enough power to engage a competent Accretion Rank 10. It has Nobilis+ Level Meta-Defense, which I'm assuming means Gisena's powers are unable to nullify anything done with Ordinalism without massively powering her up(The Gardens of Enoch: Terrascape Academy Original).

First we have a special case:

0: Absorption(This enables you to gain power from magic using adversaries you defeat in battle, especially Ordinalists, though my memory is fuzzy. There also is a potential mystery box unlockable for somebody who rejects it, all the Ordinals are in pairs)

Then we've got this:

1. Seeker/Shield
2. Conjure/Construct
3. Elements/Examine
4. Dominion/Dispel
5. Augury/Accelerate
6. Lance/Legion
7. Terrascape/Teleport - 1st Attainment Unlocked, this is an ability unique to the mage's tastes and their build
8. Overwhelm/Oathsworn
9. Nightmare/Nexus
10. Vindicate/Valor
11. Wyrd/War
12. Radiance/Revenant

Each Spell is a skill, akin to playing an instrument. Going full generalist is typically ill advised to reach the greatest heights of Ordinalism's power. Taking Two to four spells is probably best. You have a choice of taking one of the spell options available at the Ordinal Stage you unlocked, or upgrading a spell you acquired at a previous Ordinal Stage. The spell gets a conceptual potency boost to the level of the Ordinal taken, along with a boost to the parameters depending on how many additional times you've taken that particular Ordinal. The first time you repeat a spell, it gets a 10 percent boost to the parameters. The Second time it's an 11 percent boost. The boosts are additive.

We can't take the Rite of Purity to enhance our Ordinalism development, but we could have To Shatter Heaven applied to it, which would be better than being an Ordinal Purist. Practicing Ordinalism provides mental clock speed augmentations too so it probably gives us pluses to WITS.

First Ordinal Recommendation(Shield): It stacks with the Midnight Sky defenses to make them even more ridiculous, it's a broad spectrum defensive spell that unlocks defensive options on future spells, as opposed to to the homing options one would get if we took seeker. Our blade winds are probably better than what we can get without doing a lot of soupeing up Seekers(Magical Homing Missiles) anyway

Second Ordinal Recommendation(Conjure or Shield): We don't need a Green Lantern Ring, we've got a really farking good sword, so lets soupe up our defense or get a personal hammerspace.

Third Ordinal Recommendation(tossup for the Third Ordinal Options): The Elemental defenses are kind of redundant given the combination of our Cloak and the Shield Ordinal. The other abilities we can get here are nothing to sneeze at though. The elemental options are Air, Fire, Earth, Water, Metal, Wood, and Gamma Radiation. Given sufficient cultivation one can reach Endbringer levels of power with their chosen element. You pick Air you can fly, water you can breathe underwater, Earth lets you burrow underground. You pick a different element each time you take the elements Ordinal, and once you've got three elements you can start reducing them on future Ordinals to improve the power of the ones that remain. Earth and fire gets you stuff like Magma, Air and Water gets you ice, and Earth elementalism gives you an easy source of money via true creation of precious gems. The alternative is to take Examine, which gives you a pool of remote viewing perception you can also use to do things like analyze magic items, it's deadly useful for spies and ranged combatants. This one is a tossup.

Fourth Ordinal recommendation(Repeat Third Ordinal): We have Gisena for dispelling magical effects and I don't think any of us want mind control powers. We should repeat whatever we took at Third Ordinal.

Fifth Ordinal recommendation(Accelerate or Shield): Self-targeted Precog/Danger sense or Temporal Acceleration, I'd take the Temporal acceleration, our agility is already utterly monstrous, or another round of shield if we don't.

Sixth Ordinal recommendation(Accelerate or Legion): With the Benefits of To Shatter Heaven, I think we may be able to get away with using the Legion form to clone ourselves in conjunction with Temporal Acceleration. Even if we don't take Legion though, the benefits of more temporal acceleration combined with our agility are ludicrous.

Seventh Ordinal Recommendation(Terrascape or Legion): The Utility benefits of having what is essentially a reality marble to work with are signficant. We can even fark with the laws of physics and if we get skilled enough, make our reality marble into a black hole. Alternatively, we could take Legion to improve our time acceleration and cloning facilitated training scheme.

Word Count: 802 Words
 
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A response to the Apocryphal Curse point against Stranglethorn, before I forget. Conceded that it might spit out enemies that will try and outspeed us, but without Stranglethorn it might spit out enemies that quickly outscale us along a short-term growth curve. The point to defeating the Apocryphal Curse is to scale faster than it can, and stacking relevant modifiers such as Stranglethorn is the way to do it.
 
I think there may have been some delay in the SV word counter or something, final word count in my earlier analysis somehow reaches 802 words once I try editing out the word count portion and moving the cursor around.
 
Tally by line incoming:
Adhoc vote count started by Conjured Blade on Jun 7, 2020 at 7:26 PM, finished with 529 posts and 54 votes.
 
Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by Redshirt Army on Jun 7, 2020 at 7:28 PM, finished with 529 posts and 54 votes.

  • [X] No
    [X] Hunger - Stranglethorn
    [X] Undying Vanguard
    [X] Retreat to the Antechamber
    [X] Yes, Obviously.
    [X] Forebear's Blade - Dreadnought's Bearing (7 Arete, 3 picks)
    -[X] Rune King
    [X] Keep Up Momentum
    [X] Yes, Obviously.
    [X] Forebear's Blade - Dreadnought's Bearing (7 Arete, 3 picks)
    -[X] Sharp of Eye
    [X] Keep Up Momentum
    [X] Yes, Obviously.
    [X] Echo of the Forebear
    [X] Feat: Apex - +.2 Astral Rank (2 picks)
    [X] Yes, Obviously.
    [X] Echo of the Forebear
    [X] Feat: Apex - +.2 Astral Rank (2 picks)
    [X] A Thousand Cuts [7 Arete]
    [X] Retreat to the Antechamber
    [X] Yes, Obviously.
    [X] Forebear's Blade - Dreadnought's Bearing
    -[X] Sharp of Eye
    [X] Retreat to the Antechamber
    [X] Yes, Obviously.
    [X] The Ring of Power - Gardener's Hallow
    [X] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear
    [X] Retreat to the Antechamber
    [X] Yes, Obviously.
    [X] Forebear's Blade - Dreadnought's Bearing
    -[X] Sharp of Eye
    [X] Retreat to the Antechamber - You got lucky. Now stop gambling. Besides, you want to show Gisena your cool new... whatever.
    [X] Yes, Obviously.
    [X] Forebear's Blade - Ruinous Valor (3 picks)
    -[X] Zweihander
    [X] A Thousand Cuts [7 Arete]
    [X] Keep Up Momentum
    [X] Yes, Obviously.
    [X] Forebear's Blade - Dreadnought's Bearing
    -[X] Rune King
    [X] Retreat to the Antechamber
    [X] Yes, Obviously.
    [X] The Ring of Power - Gardener's Hallow
    [X] Evening Sky - Opalescence
    [X] Yes, Obviously.
    [X] Echo of the Forebear
    [X] Feat: Apex - +.2 Astral Rank (2 picks)
    [X] A Thousand Cuts [7 Arete]
    [X] Yes, Obviously.
    [X] Forebear's Blade - Ruinous Valor (3 picks)
    -[X] Zweihander
    [X] A Thousand Cuts [7 Arete]
    [X] Forebear's Blade - Dreadnought's Bearing
    -[X] Rune King
    [X] Yes, Obviously.
    [X] Forebear's Blade - Ruinous Valor
    -[X] Zweihander
    [X] Undying Vanguard
    [X] Retreat to the Antechamber
    [X] Yes, Obviously.
    [X] Forebear's Blade - Ruinous Valor (3 picks)
    -[X] Zweihander
    [X] Retreat to the Antechamber
    [X] Yes, Obviously.
    [X] Retreat to the Antechamber
    [X] The Ring of Power - Gardener's Hallow (7 Arete, 2 picks)
    [X] Yes, Obviously.
    [X] Forebear's Blade - Ruinous Valor (3 picks)
    [X] A Thousand Cuts [7 Arete]
    [X] Keep Up Momentum
    [X] Yes, Obviously.
    [X] Feat: Apex
    [X] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear
    [X] A Thousand Cuts [7 Arete]
    [X] Keep Up Momentum
    [X] Yes, Obviously.
    [X] Forebear's Blade - Dreadnought's Bearing (7 Arete, 3 picks)
    [X] Keep Up Momentum
    [X] No
    [X] Hunger - Stranglethorn
    [X] Retreat to the Antechamber
    [X] Yes, Obviously.
    [X] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear x1
    [X] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear x2
    [X] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear x3
    [X] A Thousand Cuts [7 Arete]
    [X] Retreat to the Antechamber
    [X] Yes, Obviously.
    [X] Forebear's Blade - Dreadnought's Bearing (7 Arete, 3 picks)
    -[X] Sharp of Eye
    [X] Retreat to the Antechamber
    [X] Yes, Obviously.
    [X] Forebear's Blade - Dreadnought's Bearing
    [X] Keep Up Momentum
    [X] Yes, Obviously.
    [X] Echo of the Forebear
    [X] Feat: Apex - +.2 Astral Rank (2 picks)
    [X] A Thousand Cuts [7 Arete]
    [X] Keep Up Momentum
 
The Winnowing Garden
Another bad sign, if this is anything like an official name for the fields abutting the antechamber. Winnowing, combined with the recommended 'scenic' route, gives the impression that this is a preliminary zone intended to sift the wheat from the chaff. We can only hope that whatever designed the Temple didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition power of Progression. What doesn't kill Hunger, only makes him stronger.
It did not sit well with him to stay idle while his physical body regenerated, but neither could he afford to take undue risks in this state. He resolved to scout the surrounding area and pick off any isolated knights that presented themselves. If other enemies appeared, he would do his best to withdraw until he had an idea of their capabilities.
Picking off stragglers was the balance bro option. It's unfortunate to pass up any amount of Arete, but freedom from the Apocryphal Curse is a precious opportunity that we shouldn't squander; the real scenic route would've cost us over half that time. If we don't clear the Temple inside the allotted window, we likely won't do it at all, and then we'd have to find a way to wriggle free of the Call's debuff before Bearic showed up again.
The knights were sparsely dotted across these grassy plains, many of them situated in locations of tactical import - hills and fens, caves and groves, wherever a vantage point or natural fortification might present itself. He passed by a gently babbling brook that was, disappointingly, utterly devoid of life. Not that he had a fishing pole at the moment, with Letrizia's supplies beyond the Temple gates.
Thank the Accursed, if there was fishing to be done in both the Temple and whatever civilization we'd have found that would've been a real... catch-22. Also, I don't think we want to encounter whatever lurks in these waters! After catching the King Fish, what's next? The Emperor Fish? At what point do we start reeling in mythological monsters?
He wondered what, if anything, the people in here ate. Was it possible to live off the land, did adventurers simply bring their own meals?
So, logistics are a concern when exploring the Temple. Might be able to scavenge for berries and such, but in a place like this it's anybody's guess whether they're safe to eat; addressing this issue might be a hidden benefit of Hallow, once we get deep enough into the Temple that we can't return to the entrance. The knights don't seem to need sustenance and bleed grey, it's an open question whether they count as alive at all. The absence of unnatural fortifications is a strike against true sapience, but they're still a pain in the ass. Also, this has been lurking in the back of my mind for a while, but how does Decimation interact with the undead? Assuming we have access to the requisite level of life force, could Hunger recruit liches and let the Affliction run without worrying about their well-being? Would be more relevant if we had Prolessarch, but not even the Diagram and AU EFB lore could overcome costing two Lesser Remittances...
Speed and strength having been bolstered by the first knight he felled, and wise now to their tactics, he dispatched further singleton knights without issue, though not without the occasional wound or two. It seemed a somewhat sustainable means of harvesting power without undue risk, though increasing patrols of heavily-armored knights began to appear in the region he frequented, as the hours ticked by and their isolated comrades died. They even attempted to pincer him into an ambush, with a lone knight on a tall hill serving as bait, but he sniffed out the attack when he entered the armored giant's sight and was not immediately pounced upon.
Troublesome, the death knell phenomenon means that every kill alerts the others to our location, so this strategy isn't going to be viable forever. We just need to scale up sufficiently so we can live up to the Vanquisher's name and kill off all our pursuers, but they're not inclined to collaborate with their fated role as XP bags awaiting reification. I'd say that Bearic could sympathize, but it's possible that he literally can't!
Tedious and increasingly risky. His enemies were no strategic geniuses, but neither were they fools. They had some basic conception of cause and effect, the ability to organize and call reinforcements as they fell. Should this continue he had little doubt this region of the Temple would be swarming with the things, and who knew if there was any limit to their number, to say nothing of greater escalations.
Yeah, there aren't any ruined fortresses hereabouts that would make sense as a base of operations for the knights and we haven't seen a leader yet. Even without the Apocryphal Curse, we can't afford to assume they don't have one. King of Thieves might've been useful here, these ambush tactics are perfectly suited for it, but sadly we sacrificed it on the altar of mage options we consistently pass on. Charitably, you could say we're holding out for the Praxis? I'd settle for the Ordinal Spiral too, just imagine Hunger with the War Form. Valor can go home, though; first girl sword always wins. We're not cheating on the Forebear's Blade!

Wonder what sort of build he'd settle on. Examine to analyze the latest bit of Apocryphal asshattery, Accelerated sleeping, Shield for an all-purpose defense, Conjure because I just realized we have no way of carrying supplies outside of Versch. Speaking of supplies, might be possible to create some sort of vital singularity for the explicit purpose of Decimation so we could travel in space without A Hunger, Sated; TIM managed to put Megalith creatures in Conjure pockets.
With that in mind, he called it a night and withdrew, but was intercepted along the way by an enormous burrowing wurm-creature, its titanic length erupting from the green earth in a world-sundering burst of noise and motion, tides of heaving pitch-black loam, shattered-stone shrapnel in a furious geyser as it snapped at him. Its quadruply-segmented jaw, thick with stone-cracking fangs, was mercifully slower than the wind-light mass of his spirit body; though the heaving bulk of its follow-through, like an onrushing train, caught him out with its whiplash speed. He was thrown back and away, cratering the hard earth as he landed, vision gone blurry for a moment as fragments of his spirit-corpus lost coherence and dispersed. And then, quick as it'd come, it was gone, disappeared beneath the earth once more.
Praise Shai-Hulud, may his passing cleanse the world! But despite the presence of hostile megafauna this isn't Arrakis, it's not even close to arid enough. Holy shit, though, this is yet another near miss. If not for the agility of our Second Stage, this thing would've caught and possibly killed us. Form of Rage works best when you can look the abyss in the eye and spit defiance into it, making it an uncertain proposition if oneshotted from ambush. Even with our speed it still clipped us; Swift as Death would've had us dodge cleanly, but saving the Arete's going to pay off in this decision point, so eh.
Like a bomb going off the worm had appeared: sudden destruction and chaos to be followed by a long, ear-ringing aftermath of tense silence. Now that he was attuned to it, he could hear the mountainous rumble of its passage beneath, gliding smoothly through dirt and stone, circling about its intended prey. How much strength, how much sheer force of momentum, was required to move so effortlessly through the solid earth?
With our luck, it could be a bloody Ordinalist with the Elements Form. The Spiral's not the domain of humanity alone (or even humanity especially), one of the alternate Dragon boss fights at the end of Terrascape wielded it.
Would this be the one, this nameless, eyeless beast? Would it force out the power he'd pledged, not hours ago, to forsake except in direst extremity?

No. It would not be here, not now, not to this overgrown muckraker. He ran, sprinting for the antechamber, pounding footfalls alerting the beast to his location as he moved. Coming across a rocky hill, he climbed it, pacing across its length as if undecided as to his next destination.
Hey, there's no need to go impugning the wurm by comparing it to a journalist! It's hungry, we were here, nothing personal. Kind of the problem, really, if it was personal we could reliably deploy the Form of Rage.
There. The rumbling of its movements had paused. Some might take it that the pursuer had given up. He knew it for what it was. Unnatural stillness, like a serpent coiled to spring. Waiting to ensure its target would not spook or startle before it committed to the attack. The Tyrant had been fond of movements such as this. One did not spring the trap until the bait was claimed.
And now he's drawing parallels between it and the Tyrant; is this a meta-strategy to enrage himself? I'd initially assumed that, with a protagonist as motivated as Hunger, triggering the Form wouldn't be an issue in most circumstances. Seram's my second-favorite protagonist, but I don't miss the will economy aspect of playing him.
He closed his eyes, become still and silent, attuned to the world around him, the whorls and eddies of Pressure as it twisted the skeins of chance, bringing the physical world in alignment with his wishes. The ring of power blazed on his hand, crimson light like an anglerfish lure, enticing the creature's avarice, its hunger. Now, he prodded it. Strike now and fill the gnawing emptiness within.
Interesting, seems like a situation where the Master Baiter title would've been useful. Hunger's even using aquatic metaphors to conceptualize his Pressure, truly a dedicated fisherman! Anyway, Rank redeems a multitude of sins and the ring's the perfect tool for this job. I'm glad to see Hunger's intelligence put to good use, even if we did ace the combat roll (by a heart-poundingly narrow margin).
And so it did, thunderous blast of roaring sound as its jaws swallowed earth and sky, the hill given way in a instant, plunged within the monster's gullet. But he was already gone, sprung away in that final moment, now attached like a limpet to the creature's side, running down its length, splitting its carapace with the Forebear's Blade to carve himself a crevice. A makeshift warren, cut into the monster's absurdly thick armor, within which he could withstand the awesome pressures of the creature's movement underground. Inside he climbed, as sun and sky disappeared, his world become a blind narrow place of heat and abrading force, this subterranean ocean where errant stone and branch passed with speed enough to splinter limbs and shatter bone.
Hot damn, that's a hell of a maneuver, timing it just right to dodge the maw and latch onto the creature. If he'd been an instant too slow in burrowing, Hunger would've been shredded as soon as the wurm did.
But ensconced in its armor he felt none of that, and steadily cut himself further in, a fell-handed excavator cleaving the outer crust to the treasures secreted within. At last he reached a vein, springy flesh yielding tenderly to the Forebear's Blade, and where he struck huge gouts of acid spat outwards and at him, the monster's pressurized digestive juices or perhaps merely its blood. The Evening Sky wrapped around him, he stubbornly cut onwards, even as the outer boundary of his spirit-flesh began to waver and burn away. Before long he reached a pocket of empty air, esophageal flesh coated with mucus, and tucked himself inside, the stars of his cloak his only light. By their illumination he ran, up and through the monster's digestive tunnel, instincts guiding him to an organ of greater import. Acid dribbled off his form, coating his footsteps as he ran. There was pain but he ignored the pain, easy to do in this body of wraith-flesh.
This is a time-honored boss fight tactic, I can almost see it playing out in video game format. The quest so far would work extremely well as a Triple-A title: Gisena as a support character whose powers don't overlap with Hunger's, Bearic's escape and Letrizia's injury as the obligatory rage-inducing cutscene, etc. Anyway, Pressure's amazing for navigation even at this scale, I wouldn't have anticipated this trick. We should consider more improvised uses of it, especially if Dreadnought's Bearing wins and we can power through our weariness.
There. A cluster of nerve endings, synapses as thick as his fist, sheltered within a calcite growth of hardened stone. Thickly spooled nerves radiated from the organ, spiraling into the creature's musculature, wrapped densely around translucent reservoirs of bright green acid. It pulsed steadily in time to the wurm's movements, part part action potential, part heartbeat.
One part too many.

The wurm's anatomy is cool, in a different quest I could really sink my teeth into cultivating such creatures, but with the Apocryphal Curse and the need for worthy opponents to stave off Decimation, the Gardener's Hallow is a pipe dream. A beautiful dream, sure: a peaceful land, a quiet people, and a plethora of buffs. Maybe if we hadn't chosen death the Temple it'd get more traction, but we need to survive to eat those pies in the sky. Also, our ring's effect means downtime is currently free for socialization and changing that would make chatting with Letrizia suboptimal. On the other hand, an excuse to evade Gisena... hm.
Likely not the only such organ in a beast of this length, but he only needed the one. Marshaling his energies he struck down with the Forebear's Blade, attacking mind and spirit more than flesh, and at this the wurm jerked, twisting and tunneling in a futile attempt to dislodge what was alrady within. Again and again he stabbed downwards; each steady, gruesome blow left a wound leaking pale-white soul matter out into nothingness. The wurm convulsed, acid ducts widening, mucus flooding the tunnel in an attempt to sweep him free, drown him out, but it was too slow by far. He attacked unrelentingly, drawing upon his uttermost reserves of energy, and by the time he was knee-deep in mucus half a dozen soul-fraying wounds were buried in its nerve cluster. Positioning himself sideways against its esophagus-wall, he continued to run, occasionally striking out with another fell blow as his energies recovered.

Its primitive mind and soul bled dry by his onslaught, the creature did not last long. For all its towering physical might, it was, in the end, only a worm, and though the force of it spirit was unusually bountiful, still it had no way to stem the bleeding, no means to replenish what his attacks irrevocably stole. Eventually it ground to a slow, shuddering halt, meters-thick layers of muscle twitching and undulating stupidly, its intellect utterly banished, dispersed into the aether by the Forebear's cruel power. Unable now to control or regulate its internal functions, it was a helplessly breathing corpse, meat to the slaughter. He decoupled Blade from belt and began the bloody work.
We got lucky in a number of ways here. The roll, the ring's suitability for manipulating this opponent, and the fortunate power interaction where its bodily vigor surpassed the spiritual. This kill would've been a lot easier with A Thousand Cuts, since it buffs not only power but speed of execution, making the strikes easier to land; we missed one versus the first knight because of that.

It's not always easy to tell when Hunger's using Fell-Handed Stroke, but its upgraded form would be a godsend for both battles of attrition and burning down adversaries in a single flurry. This... definitely falls into the former category. What an exhausting image: knee-deep in acid and mucus, ethereal form fraying at the edges, seeing with one eye by starlight, slowly butchering a comatose monster from within. Also, man, does this mean we were stranded deep underground after killing the wurm? Lucky we're in spirit form or escaping would be tricky. It takes a certain sort of person to go "sure, I'll keep going, let me just take a dip to wash the slime off."

1361 words to go with the latest index update. Post now, proofread for typos later.
 
A question does the time cost for making plants with Gardner's Hallow require us to be working on the plant the whole time or can we just give the plant what it needs as often as it needs and be of doing other things? Cause is seems like people assume that just because I takes a longer time to make better plants we must spend the whole of it nearby and tending to them, or at least that is how some people's posts on the subject read to me, I am not entirely clear on this. I mean I know it is advantageous for us to travel about but we need to eventually conquer the Human Sphere and I presume that would involve setting up a base at some point being able to enhance the base with magic plants would be pretty great especially if we used it to store up supplies for our journeys making them more fruitful overall.

Also another we may want to consider with Hallow is that we could potentially use it to preempt or direct the apocryphal curse. I mean if seeming out trouble can delay the curse because our life is already interesting, creating things which could attract trouble may give us an idea of where the curse could strike next.
 
@Rihaku
Is a tally by line really the best approach? Might be better to look at holistic builds as a whole. If we do, the results are:

Stranglethorn: 11 Votes
Sub-build 1: Vanguard: 10 Votes
[X] No
[X] Hunger - Stranglethorn
[X] Undying Vanguard
[X] Retreat to the Antechamber
Sub-build 2: No Vanguard: 1 Vote
[X] No
[X] Hunger - Stranglethorn
[X] Retreat to the Antechamber

Voter: Enohthree
Dreadnought: 21 Votes
Sub-build 1: Rune King: 9 Votes
Sub-sub-build 1: Momentum: 6 Votes
[X] Yes, Obviously.
[X] Forebear's Blade - Dreadnought's Bearing (7 Arete, 3 picks)
-[X] Rune King
[X] Keep Up Momentum
Sub-sub-build 2: Retreat: 2 Votes
[X] Yes, Obviously.
[X] Forebear's Blade - Dreadnought's Bearing
-[X] Rune King
[X] Retreat to the Antechamber
Sub-sub-build 3: Undecided: 1 Vote
[X] Forebear's Blade - Dreadnought's Bearing
-[X] Rune King

Voter: cheesyme
Sub-build 2: Sharp of Eye: 10 Votes
Sub-sub-build 1: Momentum: 4 Votes
[X] Yes, Obviously.
[X] Forebear's Blade - Dreadnought's Bearing (7 Arete, 3 picks)
-[X] Sharp of Eye
[X] Keep Up Momentum

Sub-sub-build 2: Retreat: 6 Votes
[X] Yes, Obviously.
[X] Forebear's Blade - Dreadnought's Bearing
-[X] Sharp of Eye
[X] Retreat to the Antechamber
Sub-build 3: Undecided: 2 Votes
[X] Yes, Obviously.
[X] Forebear's Blade - Dreadnought's Bearing
[X] Keep Up Momentum

Apex: 10 Votes
Sub-vote 1: Vanilla: 4 Votes
[X] Yes, Obviously.
[X] Echo of the Forebear
[X] Feat: Apex - +.2 Astral Rank (2 picks)

Sub-vote 2: With Thousand Cuts: 6 Votes
Sub-sub-vote 1: Retreat: 3 Votes
[X] Yes, Obviously.
[X] Echo of the Forebear
[X] Feat: Apex - +.2 Astral Rank (2 picks)
[X] A Thousand Cuts [7 Arete]
[X] Retreat to the Antechamber
Sub-sub-vote 2: Momentum: 2 Votes
[X] Yes, Obviously.
[X] Feat: Apex
[X] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear
[X] A Thousand Cuts [7 Arete]
[X] Keep Up Momentum
Sub-sub-vote 3: Undecided: 1 Vote
[X] Yes, Obviously.
[X] Echo of the Forebear
[X] Feat: Apex - +.2 Astral Rank (2 picks)
[X] A Thousand Cuts [7 Arete]

Voter: DkArthas
Gardener's Hallow: 5 Votes
Sub-build 1: Plain Echo: 4 Votes
[X] Yes, Obviously.
[X] The Ring of Power - Gardener's Hallow
[X] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear
[X] Retreat to the Antechamber
Sub-build 2: Opalescence: 1 Vote
[X] Yes, Obviously.
[X] The Ring of Power - Gardener's Hallow
[X] Evening Sky - Opalescence

Voter: Rotekian
Ruinous Valor: 6 Votes
Sub-vote 1: Momentum: 4 Votes
[X] Yes, Obviously.
[X] Forebear's Blade - Ruinous Valor (3 picks)
-[X] Zweihander
[X] A Thousand Cuts [7 Arete]
[X] Keep Up Momentum
Sub-Vote 2: Retreat: 2 Votes
Sub-sub-vote 1: Vanilla: 1 Vote
[X] Yes, Obviously.
[X] Forebear's Blade - Ruinous Valor (3 picks)
-[X] Zweihander
[X] Retreat to the Antechamber

Voter: Cerillian

Sub-sub-vote 2: Undying Vanguard: 1 Vote
[X] Yes, Obviously.
[X] Forebear's Blade - Ruinous Valor
-[X] Zweihander
[X] Undying Vanguard
[X] Retreat to the Antechamber

Voter: Sickul
Echos + Thousand Cuts: 1 Vote
[X] Yes, Obviously.
[X] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear x1
[X] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear x2
[X] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear x3
[X] A Thousand Cuts [7 Arete]
[X] Retreat to the Antechamber

Voter: Zampano
 
[X] No
[X] Hunger - Stranglethorn
[X] Undying Vanguard
[X] Retreat to the Antechamber

To update my vote, though I wouldn't be too opposed to getting our eye back
 
Update in 30! Let's get to the next page, etc.

He was torn on whether their coming to this Temple had been a mistake. The inhabitants of this unnatural place were fearsome opponents, well beyond his own level in many respects, and it was only by grit, cunning, and the all-killing power of his Blade that he'd prevailed today. Would it be wiser to retreat, despite the impairment of the false moon's Calling, content with the strength he'd gained today?

Perhaps. But it was not within him to yield so easily. A decade of stubborn insurgency against the Tyrant had seared his psyche with hatred and determination in equal measure. He was fully aware of that, but felt no need to change his essential nature. To give up now merely because the threat was dire would be a refutation of everything he was, the personal legend that comprised his supernal shadow, his much-vaunted "Astral Rank." Faced with a threat like this, he could only rise to the occasion or die trying. To cut through, even if the problem could not be cut.
 
Faced with a threat like this, he could only rise to the occasion or die trying.

I feel like our choices mean that Hunger really won't have a long career as a Progressor. But it'll be amazing while it's there.

To cut through, even if the problem could not be cut.

Is this the first trace of overt mental contamination we've seen from the Thick As Thieves? Or is this a more natural form of following in his footsteps?
 
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Update in 30! Let's get to the next page, etc.

He was torn on whether their coming to this Temple had been a mistake. The inhabitants of this unnatural place were fearsome opponents, well beyond his own level in many respects, and it was only by grit, cunning, and the all-killing power of his Blade that he'd prevailed today. Would it be wiser to retreat, despite the impairment of the false moon's Calling, content with the strength he'd gained today?

Perhaps. But it was not within him to yield so easily. A decade of stubborn insurgency against the Tyrant had seared his psyche with hatred and determination in equal measure. He was fully aware of that, but felt no need to change his essential nature. To give up now merely because the threat was dire would be a refutation of everything he was, the personal legend that comprised his supernal shadow, his much-vaunted "Astral Rank." Faced with a threat like this, he could only rise to the occasion or die trying. To cut through, even if the problem could not be cut.

Royalty is a continuous cutting motion.
 
Basically, if Rihaku wanted to write up the four most popular current plans for consolidation purposes (modulo adjustments for viability, or wanting to throw in a wild card), it would be:

- The standard Stranglethorn build, with undying vanguard and retreat
- An Apex Plan with Thousand Cuts
- Two different Dreadnought Builds, one with Rune King and one with Sharp of Eye
 
[X] Yes, Obviously
[X] Forebear's Blade
- Dreadnought's Bearing
-[X] Rune King
[X] Retreat to the Antechamber
 
We ran into the knight squad/mooks, then the sandwurm. About time we run into some traps or other adventurers.
 
I feel like our choices mean that Hunger really won't have a long career as a Progressor. But it'll be amazing while it's there.

Likely, though it feels like the difficulty of switching mindsets is something inherent to every cursebearer, especially those with the Apocryphal. The simple commonalities in theme of starting off as a weakling and needing to take risks at the start but recognizing once you've scaled enough and need to switch mindsets to settle in for long haul of endless ages where you only take next to no deathly risks beyond what's needed to keep up with inflation seem like it would be a pretty universal difficulty in adaptation among the cursebearer cadre, another great filter maybe.
 
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