OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
That 27+41 was still probably intelligence, the 9+14 was probably appearance, Seram didn't have perfecting blade unless he got it in a later jump/indenture task.
A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
- Original
That 27+41 was still probably intelligence, the 9+14 was probably appearance, Seram didn't have perfecting blade unless he got it in a later jump/indenture task.
- Location
- Pindorama
why would LOCKED I come second though
Oh no, I'm already giving this way too much thought.
Oh no, I'm already giving this way too much thought.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
If Counting started from zero?
- Location
- Pindorama
But the one is on Roman Numeral?
Is it LOCKED then LOCKED I then? That's pretty weird.
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Aabcehmu
Confusion as a Natural State of Being
- Location
- Chicago, IL
- Pronouns
- Any/All
It's AST and AST I, so yeah, I'd guess that's how it works.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Mental Apex ran on Locked while Evokers panopoly ran on Locked I. Which apparently means Findross is more powerful if you're pretty or something?
Aabcehmu
Confusion as a Natural State of Being
- Location
- Chicago, IL
- Pronouns
- Any/All
Sorcery is predicated on emulation of the Maiden, who is obviously very pretty, so it make sense on some level.
Birdsie
Sharp Talons Cleave The Worthy
- Location
- Poland
Guys, I have an idea on how to defeat the Maiden.
Let's use Space to summon Dr. Apocalypse as an ally!
Vocalist
Verdant Maiden in Violet
- Location
- By a Cedar Tree
This sounds kind of stupid, but also like it might work? Rihaku has been putting a lot of references in this quest already, and with the Maiden as final boss. If we're going to have a grand finale that also serves as a fond retrospective of past work, why not have Doctor Apocalypse there too?
Gabbie
That One Writer
- Location
- Italy
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Why not Seram as well? 👀
Birdsie
Sharp Talons Cleave The Worthy
- Location
- Poland
And together, Hunger, Dr. Apocalypse, and Seram Law formed the People Who Hate The Maiden Club.
Lurker Gang snek pokes away from the hidey holes in this final of votes!
[X] The Forebear's Blade - Inheritance
Be the 4Bear Sordbear at long last!
Sord Gang Supremacy!
[X] The Forebear's Blade - Inheritance
Be the 4Bear Sordbear at long last!
Sord Gang Supremacy!
Rihaku
The Internet
And the Porcelain's abilities, the Motley's, the Crimson's, the Elixir's...
Zampano
🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
- Location
- Simping for DSB
Blood Halo Discussion
913 Words
All these blurbs slap. There's a lot to like about each one. But I'm pretty sure that Blood Halo is the best one.
This effortpost is going to give you some reasons why I think you should seriously consider voting for the Ring EFB. I'm trusting that you're able to read the blurbs yourself to see the obvious stuff like +1 ISH to Space/Law & Sanctum, etc., but here are the features of BH that I think have gone overlooked so far.
First, consider the short term:
Aobaru's Chains of Fate task may be incomplete
Aobaru was given the responsibility "to see the Voyaging Realm saved and returned to the fullness of its glory." In nine months, Aobaru has turned it into an adventure zone, but my guess is that the fundamental degradation of places like the Elixir Sovereignty have not been fully reversed. If Aobaru dies before the task is completed, then Hunger will "arouse the deathly ire of the Apocryphal Curse, triggering Apocryphal Onslaught."
Regardless of whether the Maiden is the Chains of Fate enemy, she has just launched an attack on Aobaru and Letrizia:
The teens have either been targeted with an alpha strike by the Maiden, or they have been kidnapped to the Realm of Daylight for a recruitment pitch. Letrizia alone would offer useful insight into Hunger's primary Remittance of Rank Accretion, but Aobaru would further buff the Maiden and is strong enough to provide a meaningful distraction at a critical moment.
If Aobaru is murdered immediately by the Maiden, Hunger could be facing the Apocryphal Onslaught and the Maiden simultaneously. The wait-and-Progress strategy of Imperishable Night would be a death sentence in that case. IN's PROT bonus is weakest during the Maiden's first strike, which makes Aobaru the most efficient opening salvo!
Mentoring Aobaru via Blood Halo gives him the tools needed to resist the Maiden's attack (either combat or social) and escape with Letrizia in tow. Maybe he'll give her a black eye on the way out
Prowess is a massive power amplifier
Setting Prowess to 10,000 is very very good for this matchup. Hunger has been relying on brute strength to make up for his mundane swordsmanship in most of his fights, but the Maiden is a match for his stats and also will be supernaturally talented at killing stuff. But more importantly...
Prowess applies to Archmage domains! Hunger is currently benefiting from findross suffusion due to our choice of 'Spark of Prowess' from Gisena during the Realm of Evening. The Maiden has absolute control over Findross, so it is reasonable to expect that Hunger's findross-derived mastery will be stripped from him. Considering the breadth of the Maiden's abilities, this is a terrible time to become a one-trick pony.
Prowess is also something that translates to Hunger's Wraith-echoes. Under the Armies of the Shogun feature, an army of a million would eclipse Hunger's own power by 100 times, with diminishing (but positive!) returns for larger organizations. Armies of the Shogun offers a hundredfold increase. More, even, because there are a thousand-million clones ready to join the army!
For comparison, Archmage only guaranteed a "doubling" of Hunger's raw power.
Core Panoply Synergy
With the Ring's light providing a Halo effect, Hunger "is perpetually outlined by a ring of crimson light behind" and enemies "who touch even the radiant glow of that light are utterly sliced to ribbons." This means that Hunger's entire core panoply each provides a unique defensive ability:
There is a tradeoff here, giving up Hunger's own regeneration and making it more difficult to secure healing from others. But we've seen high-tier combat a few times already, and it is very much like playing rocket-tag. Being able to apply +1 ISH attacks will bring the battle to a close much more quickly, further offsetting the risk of foregone regeneration.
To summarize, Hunger's personal stats are boosted by nearly 100x and raised by +1 ISH, and then Wraith-echos are boosted by Armies of the Shogun to eclipse that new power level by more than 100x again.
In the long term:
Removing the Ring's Training Malus vastly reorders the incentive structure surrounding risk & reward.
This is one of the reasons I am most excited by the BH advancement. We have been saying for ages that Hunger needs to stop taking risks. Removing the training malus from the Crimson Ring means that Hunger can receive meaningful amounts of XP from non-combat & non-lethal contests. Considering that the Realm of Evening cannot produce multi-pick fights indefinitely, it is hard to overstate how important this option is.
Decimator Mitigation helps prevent cannibalizing the Realm of Evening for Huntress' Moon Targets.
This one doesn't need that much elaboration - the primary foundation of our magic involves superimposing the RoE onto the material plane. The Decimator's Affliction is directly undermining the substance of our Soul Evocation. In terms of epilogue survival, putting a stop to that decline seems like a high priority imo.
913 Words
All these blurbs slap. There's a lot to like about each one. But I'm pretty sure that Blood Halo is the best one.
This effortpost is going to give you some reasons why I think you should seriously consider voting for the Ring EFB. I'm trusting that you're able to read the blurbs yourself to see the obvious stuff like +1 ISH to Space/Law & Sanctum, etc., but here are the features of BH that I think have gone overlooked so far.
First, consider the short term:
Aobaru's Chains of Fate task may be incomplete
Aobaru was given the responsibility "to see the Voyaging Realm saved and returned to the fullness of its glory." In nine months, Aobaru has turned it into an adventure zone, but my guess is that the fundamental degradation of places like the Elixir Sovereignty have not been fully reversed. If Aobaru dies before the task is completed, then Hunger will "arouse the deathly ire of the Apocryphal Curse, triggering Apocryphal Onslaught."
Regardless of whether the Maiden is the Chains of Fate enemy, she has just launched an attack on Aobaru and Letrizia:
The teens have either been targeted with an alpha strike by the Maiden, or they have been kidnapped to the Realm of Daylight for a recruitment pitch. Letrizia alone would offer useful insight into Hunger's primary Remittance of Rank Accretion, but Aobaru would further buff the Maiden and is strong enough to provide a meaningful distraction at a critical moment.
If Aobaru is murdered immediately by the Maiden, Hunger could be facing the Apocryphal Onslaught and the Maiden simultaneously. The wait-and-Progress strategy of Imperishable Night would be a death sentence in that case. IN's PROT bonus is weakest during the Maiden's first strike, which makes Aobaru the most efficient opening salvo!
Mentoring Aobaru via Blood Halo gives him the tools needed to resist the Maiden's attack (either combat or social) and escape with Letrizia in tow. Maybe he'll give her a black eye on the way out
Prowess is a massive power amplifier
Setting Prowess to 10,000 is very very good for this matchup. Hunger has been relying on brute strength to make up for his mundane swordsmanship in most of his fights, but the Maiden is a match for his stats and also will be supernaturally talented at killing stuff. But more importantly...
Prowess applies to Archmage domains! Hunger is currently benefiting from findross suffusion due to our choice of 'Spark of Prowess' from Gisena during the Realm of Evening. The Maiden has absolute control over Findross, so it is reasonable to expect that Hunger's findross-derived mastery will be stripped from him. Considering the breadth of the Maiden's abilities, this is a terrible time to become a one-trick pony.
Prowess is also something that translates to Hunger's Wraith-echoes. Under the Armies of the Shogun feature, an army of a million would eclipse Hunger's own power by 100 times, with diminishing (but positive!) returns for larger organizations. Armies of the Shogun offers a hundredfold increase. More, even, because there are a thousand-million clones ready to join the army!
For comparison, Archmage only guaranteed a "doubling" of Hunger's raw power.
Core Panoply Synergy
With the Ring's light providing a Halo effect, Hunger "is perpetually outlined by a ring of crimson light behind" and enemies "who touch even the radiant glow of that light are utterly sliced to ribbons." This means that Hunger's entire core panoply each provides a unique defensive ability:
- The ring's halo automatically attacks anybody within range
- The blade's power of Ruin automatically attacks anything that targets Hunger, after BH boosts Hunger's Might score by about 90x
- The cloak's Protection stat is boosted by BH by about 80x
There is a tradeoff here, giving up Hunger's own regeneration and making it more difficult to secure healing from others. But we've seen high-tier combat a few times already, and it is very much like playing rocket-tag. Being able to apply +1 ISH attacks will bring the battle to a close much more quickly, further offsetting the risk of foregone regeneration.
To summarize, Hunger's personal stats are boosted by nearly 100x and raised by +1 ISH, and then Wraith-echos are boosted by Armies of the Shogun to eclipse that new power level by more than 100x again.
In the long term:
Removing the Ring's Training Malus vastly reorders the incentive structure surrounding risk & reward.
This is one of the reasons I am most excited by the BH advancement. We have been saying for ages that Hunger needs to stop taking risks. Removing the training malus from the Crimson Ring means that Hunger can receive meaningful amounts of XP from non-combat & non-lethal contests. Considering that the Realm of Evening cannot produce multi-pick fights indefinitely, it is hard to overstate how important this option is.
Decimator Mitigation helps prevent cannibalizing the Realm of Evening for Huntress' Moon Targets.
This one doesn't need that much elaboration - the primary foundation of our magic involves superimposing the RoE onto the material plane. The Decimator's Affliction is directly undermining the substance of our Soul Evocation. In terms of epilogue survival, putting a stop to that decline seems like a high priority imo.
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OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Blood Halo is the one that actually makes Hunger superhumanly Good at Swordfighting
Inheritance is the Infinite Rank and Infinite Physical stats/Willpower option
Point 1: 10,000 Prowess
Point 2: The ISH weight of Inheritance Sword Techniques is 2.5(2 from Cut Through, 0.2 from OAF II, and .3 from Invincible).
Point 3: The ISH weight of Blood Halo Sword Techniques is 4.5(2+1 from Cut Through, 0.2 from OAF II, and 1+.3 from Invincible).
Inheritance is the Infinite Rank and Infinite Physical stats/Willpower option
Point 1: 10,000 Prowess
Point 2: The ISH weight of Inheritance Sword Techniques is 2.5(2 from Cut Through, 0.2 from OAF II, and .3 from Invincible).
Point 3: The ISH weight of Blood Halo Sword Techniques is 4.5(2+1 from Cut Through, 0.2 from OAF II, and 1+.3 from Invincible).
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- Location
- Italy
This is probably the biggest thing long term.
Getting hunger the ability to grow even OUTSIDE OF BATTLE means he doesn't have to risk himself as often, and probably improves his chances of getting to High Cursebearer by a lot.
Simply put, if we take this his biggest challenges will be in the past, as Apocryphal has been mitigated quite a bit already and he has less incentive to search for trouble on his own.
(Well, at least on average. Apocryphal can still throw curve balls until it's been fully mitigated after all.)
Let us not be consumed by the past, nor blinded by a future that might never come! As a Cursebearer, we live in an eternal present!
[X] The Ring Crimson - Blood Halo
Shame about Haeliel though...
Hunger can already advance just fine as Ring of Blood negative effect doesn't work on Praxis.
Not to say that Blood isn't the best scaling option, thanks to massive mental stats buff plus removal of malus skyrocketing our Archmage advancement, but honestly that's borderline irrelevant as Maiden is smashing our face in at this very moment and Blood's ability to stall and create time to make use of is somewhat limited.
Not to say that Blood isn't the best scaling option, thanks to massive mental stats buff plus removal of malus skyrocketing our Archmage advancement, but honestly that's borderline irrelevant as Maiden is smashing our face in at this very moment and Blood's ability to stall and create time to make use of is somewhat limited.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
A Simple Transaction Original
While technically each of the ten Fourth Coalescence Sorceresses are invited to sit the Council, typically only a voting quorum of 5 are present in Joyeuse at any one time, and one Sorceress has never attended. By the laws of Joania the Sorceresses have no official political power, and thus the...
forums.sufficientvelocity.com
A Simple Transaction Original
Chapter II.IV - "An Adult Understands" A child must be taught. An adult understands. In the realm of Amplitude, Seram was just one step above that of a newborn. The first blossoming of his thermal sense had rendered him incoherent, bombarded by a matrix of sensory data vastly more complex...
forums.sufficientvelocity.com
Here's some more Sorceress Graces from AST Original. I'd like to especially call out the Kiln Grace(Cosmically deadly homing heatvision), Alabaster's Petrifying automated defense, the fact that her version of Crimson's Daystar is probably utterly ludicrously large. She's also got a space warping explosive shroud and a third mechanism of Mind control(In addition to Galvanism and Mental Apex), in the form of Bolts that reanimate the slain into hostile ghosts
Most of specific Graces are somewhat irrelevant, as they are likely combined to create effects relevant at this scale. I.e. Maiden's spear is actually half a bajilion Graces whose super hax effects allow her to stab at Hunger relevant levels etc. Just like Dien fiated countless magic systems so he could turn into giant tentacle monster.
Among Graces revealed in AST very, very few have effects that are both relevant on our stage and relevant against Hunger. Those include Sanctuary dimensional dodge(although that working against Space is somewhat iffy), that General grace allowing Maiden to project her strikes to entire army(allowing her to harm people beyond Hunger's ability to protect them), her anti-Ruin that brings end to evil(more in general sense of how her powerset would look like in terms of archtype) and time stop grace.
Basically every effect that is either direct effect(i.e. mind control or petrification), an attack vector(i.e. Daystar) or manipulation of something is irrelevant as they can either be contested by Hunger os Maiden likely has generic reality warping powers well beyond them.
Among Graces revealed in AST very, very few have effects that are both relevant on our stage and relevant against Hunger. Those include Sanctuary dimensional dodge(although that working against Space is somewhat iffy), that General grace allowing Maiden to project her strikes to entire army(allowing her to harm people beyond Hunger's ability to protect them), her anti-Ruin that brings end to evil(more in general sense of how her powerset would look like in terms of archtype) and time stop grace.
Basically every effect that is either direct effect(i.e. mind control or petrification), an attack vector(i.e. Daystar) or manipulation of something is irrelevant as they can either be contested by Hunger os Maiden likely has generic reality warping powers well beyond them.
… And just like that! Through the seductive, yet logical words of the Lore and Maths Gang, I have been swayed! damn totally forgot about our combat xp bottleneck!
REMOVE THE LIMITS OF BETTER SORDING! THEN CUT GUD!
BLUD FOR THE SORD GANG!
From 4bear to redbear!
[X] The Ring Crimson - Blood Halo
…Bigsis Haliel tho?
Zampano
🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
- Location
- Simping for DSB
The Inheritance / Blood Halo comparison is kind of tough, but there are a couple good points about Blood Halo vs Imperishable Night that I wanted to toss in.
1. Fault-Defeating Stance is exceptionally good with both BH and IN
FDS grants passive advancement for 2 Archmage domains at a rate of 100x the experience that would be gained from training diligently for every waking moment. BH removes the training malus from the Ring! So BH will scale up Archmage during timeskips much faster than the other options.
Meanwhile, +Progression from IN means that the effects of the advancements gained via FDS will be more powerful. Our Echoes of the Forebear got way better every time we picked up a +Progression, for example.
Both are good for Epilogue survival rates!
2. Blood Halo uses the Arete from the next few weeks to improve the survival chance of our Companions. Hunger's advancement 'Companions of the King' includes a (difficult) resurrection ritual, so we could effectively earn a reroll if there is another outpouring of fanworks to close out the quest.
Inheritance also uses Arete effectively, this time for Hunger's own survival chance while indicating that there will be grievous sacrifices involved.
I think that Imperishable Night kind of wastes the Arete we generate; if the party dies then it'll be hard to get too worked up about the fate of the Human Sphere, if I'm being honest.
3. Both BH and IN have the chance to reveal more L O R E about the way that Armaments work with Cursebearers. Versch's final purpose was to be mitigation for someone with the Decimator's Affliction, and Nova is offering a truly bonkers amount of Apo Mitigation, which implies we could get some wordcount devoted to that relationship.
1. Fault-Defeating Stance is exceptionally good with both BH and IN
FDS grants passive advancement for 2 Archmage domains at a rate of 100x the experience that would be gained from training diligently for every waking moment. BH removes the training malus from the Ring! So BH will scale up Archmage during timeskips much faster than the other options.
Meanwhile, +Progression from IN means that the effects of the advancements gained via FDS will be more powerful. Our Echoes of the Forebear got way better every time we picked up a +Progression, for example.
Both are good for Epilogue survival rates!
2. Blood Halo uses the Arete from the next few weeks to improve the survival chance of our Companions. Hunger's advancement 'Companions of the King' includes a (difficult) resurrection ritual, so we could effectively earn a reroll if there is another outpouring of fanworks to close out the quest.
Inheritance also uses Arete effectively, this time for Hunger's own survival chance while indicating that there will be grievous sacrifices involved.
I think that Imperishable Night kind of wastes the Arete we generate; if the party dies then it'll be hard to get too worked up about the fate of the Human Sphere, if I'm being honest.
3. Both BH and IN have the chance to reveal more L O R E about the way that Armaments work with Cursebearers. Versch's final purpose was to be mitigation for someone with the Decimator's Affliction, and Nova is offering a truly bonkers amount of Apo Mitigation, which implies we could get some wordcount devoted to that relationship.
- Location
- Peterborough, NH, USA
Speaking of Blood Halo and Fault-Defeating Stance, getting Battle as a Domain pushes us to 16 Domains for it, which for someone who gets bothered by TV volumes being odd numbers, is a plus in my book, though in this case it's because 15 cannot be divided evenly by 2.
As mentioned earlier, the fundamental issue with BH progression buffs is that BH has limited ability to make use of them. Among the three options it has the weakest defense effects(which is why it has to actually spend Arete to not get companions killed while something like IH just does it on its own) which means that Hunger will have to be out fighting to contain the Maiden instead of advancing his training. So you have an option which gives you a lot of possibility to advance without giving you ability to actually buy time for advancement to kick in.
Like, Blood has two main defense effects - Hunger utilizing Space+1 and Hunger buffing an army. However, former is purely a combat effect and his Space is actually weaker when he is not fighting(i.e. when training) so he is basically forced to fight, and later just runs into Maiden having Overlord's Remit so she doesn't really care. So it can't buy time effectively for FDS to kick in especially since Hunger would just want to fight since thats when he gets a whole point of ISH anyway.
And that's a thing I suppose, Blood is just very schizophrenic option. Blood is clearly a aggressive option that provides a lot of combat power to directly fight the Maiden, except it also provides scaling and curse mitigation and Accursed Favor except it doesn't want to sit back and train since its static defense is just not up to par. I mean, just compare it with IH which gives you ability to buy a lot of time combined with Progression+ and Apo-, so even when ignoring advanced tactics it has fully synergetic set of abilities that have a clear gameplan.
I suppose one could characterize Blood as "high risk high reward" option where you get a lot of stuff if you win with it, but is there any need to take that risk when the successful outcome of every option is "you win" anyway?
Like, Blood has two main defense effects - Hunger utilizing Space+1 and Hunger buffing an army. However, former is purely a combat effect and his Space is actually weaker when he is not fighting(i.e. when training) so he is basically forced to fight, and later just runs into Maiden having Overlord's Remit so she doesn't really care. So it can't buy time effectively for FDS to kick in especially since Hunger would just want to fight since thats when he gets a whole point of ISH anyway.
And that's a thing I suppose, Blood is just very schizophrenic option. Blood is clearly a aggressive option that provides a lot of combat power to directly fight the Maiden, except it also provides scaling and curse mitigation and Accursed Favor except it doesn't want to sit back and train since its static defense is just not up to par. I mean, just compare it with IH which gives you ability to buy a lot of time combined with Progression+ and Apo-, so even when ignoring advanced tactics it has fully synergetic set of abilities that have a clear gameplan.
I suppose one could characterize Blood as "high risk high reward" option where you get a lot of stuff if you win with it, but is there any need to take that risk when the successful outcome of every option is "you win" anyway?
Zampano
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- Location
- Simping for DSB
I fundamentally disagree with this characterization. Surviving the Maiden does not mean that Hunger will make it to the Epilogue. And having a build that will survive to the Epilogue does not mean that Hunger will survive the Maiden.
My take on BH is that it provides the immediate combat ability needed to kill the Maiden, while also providing a path upward during the next 50 - 5.0E18 years. IN fails to decisively resolve *this* Apo proc and leaves the door open for the next one, while Inheritance lacks the boost to growth rate present in the other two options.