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A Simple Transaction I

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Welp. I wanted to go for the future option anyway, but I probably would have gone Ring if it had a chance because it feels like it would be much more likely to win the combat. But I don't want to be the Forebear, I don't want to be uncontrollably spreading inevitable Ruin to everything, I don't want Inheritance.
[X] The Tears of Winter, the Dog of War, the Evening Sky - Imperishable Night
 
So short summary of options:

SORD
  • Haeliel route
  • Also infinite rank and will I guess
  • Will translates to a lot Praxis as well as infinite speed
  • Expands Rank by Ruin
  • Covers our entire kingdom in our broken fuck off I win effect
  • Basically mitigates Tyrant by becoming THE Tyrant
  • Did i mention Haeliel route?
  • L O R E
RING
  • We eat Vershe sadge
  • That's what he wanted tho
  • Surprisingly good MAEG build, with 10k mental stats of every description and removing Ring training malus while keeping its bonuses
  • +1ish in combat, 100k stats, domain of battle, we buff allies to be peer relevant
  • No Rank buffs is pretty pepega tho, especially as Maiden got Rank 15 option
  • Ally buff build
  • Makes Letrizia sad :(
  • Accursed Favor tho
SKY
  • Just chill through lmao
  • 420 laze it
  • Apo mitigation is always good
  • How is this an option
  • Maybe we can make fun of Maiden being a literal virgin while we chad party 24/7 to hurt her feelings?
 
[X] The Forebear's Blade - Inheritance

The only option that lets additional arete improve hungers odds of success, which is not guaranteed.

Keep in mind anyone who dies can get resurrected.

And I'd like to see the conclusion of the forebear subplot and the Halliel ending.
 
[X] The Forebear's Blade - Inheritance

[X] The Tears of Winter, the Dog of War, the Evening Sky - Imperishable Night

"Quack Qu Quack"
 
Every engagement with the enemy lowers their capabilities by 10%.

You know what means we'll have lots of engagements with the enemy? Stall tactics.
 
[X] The Forebear's Blade - Inheritance

You know, I was pretty stoked about the Crimson Ring advancement allowing the Forebear's reincarnation to train properly once more (among the multitude of other benefits) till I realize that time spent not training the Praxis is wasted time anyway, so it doesn't really matter.

Still, I suppose all options are pretty great
No, to hell with that. Nothing can compare to the glory of the Forebear option and the Haeliel route. All other options are shit, Q.E.D.
 
I think Blood Halo lets Hunger get ISH 5 strength and constitution as his theoretical maxima, 5.3 In Agility.

I've been trying to make sense of the full implications of these advancements. That's still a work in progress though.

Quoth the Rihaku on Discord:
for example, there are times when +1 ISH to Refinement of War / Artful Thorn are more useful than Infinite Rank
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Str/Constitution ISH: 1.5(Base?)+0.2(OAF II)+0.3(Invincible)+0.3(Aobaru Vigorflame) + 1.7(Refinement of war for brief timespan)+1(Battle ISH Bonus) = 5.0 theoretical maxima?, 3.0 without outside assistance or Refinement of War

Agility: 1.5(Base?)+2(Attainment of Quickness?)+0.2(OAF II)+0.3(Aobaru Vigorflame)+0.3(Invincible)+1(Battle ISH Bonus) = 5.3?
 
Alright, I don't like Sky.
  • Stall tactics are generally not as good when you are rocking Apo and Decimator, as we want to finish fights before those Curses do too much damage to us. As shown with Dien Apo can't always make up for our advancement speed, but it's not a game id like to play. It's just too passive and gives our enemies all the initiative which is basically the opposite of what I'd want to do
  • This is obvious when compared to Sord option - both offer kingdom-wide protection, but since Sord one is uniform you can actually get out and conquer more kingdom to spread the effect, while with Sky you kinda have to sit around and do nothing because getting out of our protection gets us splated as only other thing we get is 800 Stats which is basically a joke at this level
  • Likewise, its acceleration is kinda trash. +800 stats and Progression+ is alright, but its worse than infinite Rank and it is just laughable when compared to 10k Stats + no more Ring minus Progression
  • To its credit it does give Apo reduction, which works well with its gameplay
It's kinda one tricky pony that's also passive.

Between Sord and Blood the latter tickles me more, as I'm huge fan of All Stats+, but it just gives so much shit I like. Decimator mitigation, ish boost, ally mitigation(and yes, I'm actually a big fan of buffing allies as long as its not an obvious waste of Arete(looking at you memecord)) and, of course, ability to slay our foes via sick burns.

However, Sord is just kinda too good. Blood, for all the upsides, doesn't offer kingdom wide protection outside of army buff which just isn't it and that's a dealbreaker. Rest of sord effects just sorta work - you get infinite Rank, you turn your brain off and just kinda slap.

Plus the best lore and we get Tyrant x Hero ship. What's not to like?

[X] The Forebear's Blade - Inheritance
 
Aabcehmu said:
Every engagement with the enemy lowers their capabilities by 10%.

You know what means we'll have lots of engagements with the enemy? Stall tactics.
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...I want what this is supporting to win, but I want even more to not do so through misunderstandings, so:
That debuff is part of the Sanctum effect, which this doesn't spread, and thus remains functional only within 3 meters of Hunger's actual body.
 
[X] The Forebear's Blade - Inheritance

obviously. haeliel ending let's go.
 
[x] The Tears of Winter, the Dog of War, the Evening Sky - Imperishable Night

I am a simple man. I see the +Gisena on inheritance and vote something else.
 
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Wolfy said:
Blood, for all the upsides, doesn't offer kingdom wide protection outside of army buff which just isn't it and that's a dealbreaker
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Hunger leads a fuckhuge army of echoes of himself, enough to deploy lots of copies to every inhabited planet. We've been warned that infinite Rank isn't a guaranteed win, so it seems to me that Blood Halo's enhanced conceptual resonance with 'Battle,' generally, is a much better answer to the Maiden's conceptual bullshit. Inheritance embraces the God-King aspect of the FB, but the current challenge has nothing to do with being King. The current challenge is just liquidating the Maiden as quickly and comprehensively as possible. Blood Halo seems like the tool for the job imo.

I'm holding out hope that R does some of that good Devil's Advocacy for the Ring option later in the week.

[X] The Ring Crimson - Blood Halo
 
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not sure if I'm anywhere near this side of accurate but

Sanctum being applied kingdom wide is just

Territory+3 meters

My surface level understanding makes me pepehands kek
 
Unelemental said:
Though I still don't quite get what specifically about Inheritance is so exciting for Haeliel. Does she secretly have a thing for Tyrants?..
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Yeah, isn't she the Patron of Heroes or something? Then her ending would be her killing us, or empowering someone else to kill us.

Also the Forebearer was a horrifically broken and cursed individual living out an endless hell. Why would we want to return to that? Our shattering and the Cursebearer's intervention gave us the opportunity to transcend what we were. I think that's why the other options give us favor, this one is going right back to the old rut and dead ends our true potential. It's a waste of the power of progression, which should always look to the future.

Though I seriously doubt we were ever the Forebearer to begin with. The stat was called contamination. I suspect the memories are part of the blade which is the Forebearer and Hunger is being deluded to the point where he's now confused about his identity.

The inevitability of bringing ruin to all things he touches also sounds like a fail state on its own. Better he die now than bring that to the multiverse.
 
[X] The Forebear's Blade - Inheritance

Hmmm... Sharkey, Sharkey, on the wall, tell me what's in the future.

[picks up a jar with Sharkey's severed skeletal head floating within and shakes it - within the bubbles, a possible future timeline is shown]



Glorious. Thank you, Sharkey-san.

Mr. Prokosch said:
Though I seriously doubt we were ever the Forebearer to begin with. The stat was called contamination. I suspect the memories are part of the blade which is the Forebearer and Hunger is being deluded to the point where he's now confused about his identity.
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Only the Forebear may wield the Blade; all our Companions are witnesses to our glory in any case.

And besides, Ruin will already come anywhere the Apocryphal Curse follows us. We might as well hold it in thrall when that happens.
 
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Mr. Prokosch said:
The inevitability of bringing ruin to all things he touches also sounds like a fail state on its own. Better he die now than bring that to the multiverse.
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He brings Ruin but he can also control it. Which means that, while things he interacts with are doomed to Ruin, he can extend that inevitable Ruin past its 'natural' occurrence.

Ruin Incarnate: The Forebear is Ruin itself and casts its pallor across all that he touches; every person, object, polity or phenomenon with which he enters contact is doomed irrevocably to ruin. Though, being its absolute master, the ending of his favored kingdoms may come only after the long and gentle decay of a vigintillion eons; while the barding of his enemy disintegrates in moments.

*Merge Rank and Ruin. The wielder's Rank now drives all within its influence to ruin of some form, though the wielder has great discretion over the nature and timeframe of manifestation.
*If Rank is infinite, its cardinality is now determined by the wielder's prior Rank and the might of their Power of Ruin.
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Notes on Inheritance vs Blood Halo Before I go to bed.

Disclaimer: This is using a Flat pluses model


Inheritance:

Doom of the Tyrant: Removed/Utterly Unmitigatable as a core pillar of the Forebear's Identity

Rank: Infinite but driving all within it's influence to Ruin within a timespan of Hunger's choosing


Str/Constitution ISH: 1.5(Base?)+0.2(OAF II)+0.3(Invincible)+0.3(Aobaru Vigorflame) + 0.7(Refinement of war, probably infinite because infinite willpower) = 3.0 theoretical maxima?, 2.7 without outside assistance

Agility: 1.5(Base?)+1(Attainment of Quickness)+0.2(OAF II)+0.3(Aobaru Vigorflame)+0.3(Invincible) = 3.3

1.5 ISH Everything Else(OAF II and Invincible), escalating to 2.2 in situations where Refinement of War is applicable and active?(That's probably all the time with Infinite Willpower)


Str(ROW ISH Eligible): Some Cardinal Escalation of Infinity
Constitution(ROW ISH Eligible): Some Cardinal Escalation of Infinity
Agility: Some Cardinal Escalation of Infinity
Intelligence: 38(960% Buff), tripled in Hungerland, 364.8, 1094.4 In Sanctum(Flat Pluses Model)
Wisdom(ROW ISH Eligible for Combat Wisdom): 99(930% Buff), tripled in Hungerland, 920.7, 2762.1 In Sanctum
Wits(ROW ISH Eligible): 37(960% Buff), tripled in Hungerland, 355.2, 1065.6 In Sanctum
Charisma: 53(1050% Buff), Tripled in Hungerland, 556.5, 1699.5 In Sanctum, possibly 7969.5 depending on how Domination works
Manipulation:27(960% Buff), Tripled in Hungerland, 259.2, 777.6 in sanctum
Willpower: Some Cardinal Escalation of Infinity
Protection(ROW ISH Eligible): 56(980% Buff)[+Charisma], Tripled in Hungerland, 548.8+556.5 = 1104.5, 3313.5 in sanctum
Luck(ROW ISH Eligible): 45(930% Buff), Tripled in Hungerland, 418.5, 1255.5 in Sanctum
Appearance: 9(800% Buff), Tripled in Hungerland, 72, 216 in Sanctum
Prowess(ROW ISH Eligible): ???

Effects of being in Hungerland for Hunger and Adversaries(Paradox Seal's attribute tripling has already been mentioned):
*Invincible - +0.3 ISH to all abilities, -0.5 ISH to enemy abilities, effects below base ISH 3.0 cannot oppose the wielder. A vigintillion point-blank supernovas would be no more troublesome than a breeze.
*Paradox Seal - Triple all Attributes after modifiers, instead septuple all Attributes against Heroes
*Domination - Save by his leave, entities within radius cannot act counter to wielder's desires. Against beings who would resist this ISH 3.5 effect, gain +200 Charisma and +100% to Holy Shit Modifier
*Titled - Enemies suffer -10%, and Hunger gains +10%, multiplicatively to All Attributes per exchange. Applies to all contests. Permanent until target leaves radius. Reduce by 10% multiplicatively the effects of any debuffs upon Hunger per exchange (or per attosecond, outside of contests). Does not appreciably mitigate Curses.
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Gisena Social ++
Haeliel Social +
Haeliel Ending unlocked

Arete Bonus: Somewhat Improved odds of defeating the Maiden
Sacrifice: Everyone in the very long run. You become Entropy incarnate after all
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Blood Halo:

Rank: 11? probably more given Blood Halo buffs to Ascendancy Halo

Possible Progression Buff from Blood Halo's Buff to Ascendancy Halo
Possible additional attribute buffs from Blood Halo's buff to Ascendancy Halo
Possible November Sky Buffs from Blood Halo's buff to Ascendancy Halo
Hunger loses the Progression penalty of the Ring


ISH Penalty to out of combat actions mitigated by OAF II

Hunger gets the Domain of Battles added to Archmage and maximized ability
Hunger gets the ability to back any offensive interaction, such as insults and wearing garish clothing with his physical stats

Aobaru gets the same stat and ISH buff/debuffs as Hunger, including Domain of Battles access and the ability to potentially make conceptual attacks by wearing garish clothing

Hunger gets the potential to empower a force to between roughly half his strength or 100 times his strength by commanding them depending on size, cohesion, quality, etc.

All Peer adversaries and superiors now count as Hunger Sated targets, and the Decimator's Afflication can now be fed directly through acts of violence caused in war. This makes future mitigation of Decimators Afflication harder.

Hunger loses his capacity for Ring self-healing/biomancy/etc and healing targeted at Hunger is penalized by 1 ISH

Word of Rihaku on Discord:
for example, there are times when +1 ISH to Refinement of War / Artful Thorn are more useful than Infinite Rank
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Str/Constitution ISH: 1.5(Base?)+0.2(OAF II)+1.3(Invincible)+0.3(Aobaru Vigorflame) + 1.7(Refinement of war for brief timespan) = 5.0 theoretical maxima?, 3.0 without outside assistance or Refinement of War
Agility: 1.5(Base?)+2(Attainment of Quickness?)+0.2(OAF II)+0.3(Aobaru Vigorflame)+1.3(Invincible) = 5.3?

1.5 ISH Everything Else(OAF II and Invincible), escalating to potentially 4.2 in situations where Refinement of War and the ISH battle bonus are both applicable and active?

Str(ROW ISH ELIGIBLE): 100,873(2.1)+127(4.6) = 212417.5, 637252.5 in Sanctum?
Con(ROW ISH ELIGIBLE): 100,819(2.1)+127(4.6) = 212304.1, 636912.3 in Sanctum?
Agi: 100,829(2.8)+127(4.6) = 282905.4, 848716.2 in Sanctum?
Int: 10,038(1.6) = 16060.8, 48182.4 in Sanctum?
Wis(ROW ISH ELIGIBLE FOR COMBAT WIS): 99*1.3 = 128.7, 386.1 in Sanctum
Wits(ROW ISH ELIGIBLE):10,037*1.6 = 16059.2, 48177.6 in Sanctum
Cha:53*2.5 = 132.5, 397.5 in Sanctum, maybe 1897.5 depending on how domination works I dunno
Man:27*1.6 = 43.2, 129.6 in Sanctum
Wil: 127*4.6 = 584.2, 1752.6 in Sanctum
Prot(ROW ISH ELIGIBLE): 10,056*1.8 = 18100.8+132.5 = 18233.3, 54,699 in sanctum?
Lck(ROW ISH ELIGIBLE): 45*1.3 = 58.5, 175.5 in sanctum
Appearance: 10,009
Prowess(ROW ISH Eligible): 10,000ish?

Accursed Favor +++++
Aobaru Social +++
Adorie Social +++
Gisena Social +
Aeira Social +
Letrezia Social -

Arete Bonus: Better Survival Odds for Hunger's Companions
Sacrifice: Verschlengorge and our Relationship with Letrezia
 
[] The Ring Crimson - Blood Halo


[X] The Tears of Winter, the Dog of War, the Evening Sky - Imperishable Night

It's a choice between Decimate and Apocryphal mitigation for me.
On the one hand Ring Crimson makes Hunger Sated targets almost reliably survivable. On the other it gives quite a few Aobaru +'s.

Tears of Winter mitigates Apocryphal significantly and gives good +'s to everyone I care about. Between Apocryphal and Decimator mitigation Apocryphal has to come first. The maiden demonstrates this, the kind of effort and sacrifice necessary to survive it's serious attempts is to great to manage long term.
 
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