A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
- Original
Talace
It must be raining somewhere else!
except that he would not be obliterated since he is very determined
Lealope
Not yet invincible
- Pronouns
- She/Her
For the Cosmic Janitor to have been called to clean them up, the Foremost must have been real shitheads, to the point where Dien being a wholly respectable member of their society is less a weird quirk and more a potentially damning indictment of them. I suppose they might've just been much mightier than normal but eh.
As for the Maiden, I'm wondering if she and Ceathlynn in conjunction with Silver's Mitigation and maybe burning some Arete can convince Hunger to subordinate the specific application and implementation of his powers to the will of the people, even if he maintains overall control. Sure, there's still a risk of him changing his mind but that's just a general problem with the existence of powerful people. Hunger once believed in the ideals of democracy, enough to push things until he was assassinated.
Would reawakening that nameless hero once again not be considered a victory?
As for the Maiden, I'm wondering if she and Ceathlynn in conjunction with Silver's Mitigation and maybe burning some Arete can convince Hunger to subordinate the specific application and implementation of his powers to the will of the people, even if he maintains overall control. Sure, there's still a risk of him changing his mind but that's just a general problem with the existence of powerful people. Hunger once believed in the ideals of democracy, enough to push things until he was assassinated.
Would reawakening that nameless hero once again not be considered a victory?
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My theory is that the Foremost were the Berserkers in the Forebear interlude, so they got wiped out for being idiots who couldn't help but suicidally fling themselves at the biggest threat they could find. Maybe there's a lesson to learn here????
In the Praxis you carve runes into the deepest principle the Accursed is aware of, that principle being your own understanding of self.
In Foremost Sorcery you carve runes into the most ideal medium the Foremost know of, which is Findross.
- Location
- Peterborough, NH, USA
Even as a Death/Anti-Life Goddess? It's Dreams all over again!
[Aab] Update Unideal
No strong opinions on the Maiden vote.
ImperatorV
The Laughing One
- Location
- The Voyaging Realm
[X] Equinox Lacing
[X] Innermost Sanctum
I think the two-power Maiden is a good choice. That would, by my earlier calculations, make her a six-pick, the hardest fight in the quest so far and a fitting finale. Without also making the fight unwinnable.
Frankly, I worry that if we go for the weakest possible Maiden that Hunger will be unable to reach High Cursebearer, and thus his ultimate end goal, in the long run. Right from the beginning, we knew that taking Progression was likely to result in death. Making the Maiden too strong is suicide in this fight, but making her too weak may leave Hunger unable to fight his way through the endless war of the Apocryphal in the epilogue.
[X] Innermost Sanctum
I think the two-power Maiden is a good choice. That would, by my earlier calculations, make her a six-pick, the hardest fight in the quest so far and a fitting finale. Without also making the fight unwinnable.
Frankly, I worry that if we go for the weakest possible Maiden that Hunger will be unable to reach High Cursebearer, and thus his ultimate end goal, in the long run. Right from the beginning, we knew that taking Progression was likely to result in death. Making the Maiden too strong is suicide in this fight, but making her too weak may leave Hunger unable to fight his way through the endless war of the Apocryphal in the epilogue.
[X] Unbidden Grace
[X] Flower of Victory
*The Maiden receives 100 Arete from Ceathlynn to spend on Advancements comparable in power and scope to Hunger's current 25+ Arete Advancements.
*These will be designed specifically to counter Hunger.
*There is a 30% chance any hostile effect launched at the Maiden will irrevocably fail.
*There is a 10% chance the Maiden will be open to negotiations. Success is far from guaranteed, of course.
*The Maiden is guaranteed to succeed to a substantially meaningful extent in all her major endeavors.
*The definition of success may be finessed, and may certainly include outcomes palatable to Hunger.
*She may use the Shattering Blow.
I like the combination of Unbidden Grace and Flower of Victory.
The chance of negotiation, and the chance of "palatable outcomes." I like the thought of threading that needle. Sure, it's hard... but I wanna go for it! I want to see that possibility be made real. It's the coolest option and the most tempting to me, so it's what I want to go for.
"Unasked for, but not undeserved." -- words that echo the narration during the time of Odyssial's Exalation, in Most High. "Grace. Unasked for, undeserved." And "Win. That's all that matters." is the last thing Catherine said to Hunger, and those memories are things that he said he would never sacrifice as they are his strength.
Together, these things things feel like they represent somebody who is just as determined... but also has elements of goodness or righteousness. And so I want to see what might come of that.
[X] Flower of Victory
*The Maiden receives 100 Arete from Ceathlynn to spend on Advancements comparable in power and scope to Hunger's current 25+ Arete Advancements.
*These will be designed specifically to counter Hunger.
*There is a 30% chance any hostile effect launched at the Maiden will irrevocably fail.
*There is a 10% chance the Maiden will be open to negotiations. Success is far from guaranteed, of course.
*The Maiden is guaranteed to succeed to a substantially meaningful extent in all her major endeavors.
*The definition of success may be finessed, and may certainly include outcomes palatable to Hunger.
*She may use the Shattering Blow.
I like the combination of Unbidden Grace and Flower of Victory.
The chance of negotiation, and the chance of "palatable outcomes." I like the thought of threading that needle. Sure, it's hard... but I wanna go for it! I want to see that possibility be made real. It's the coolest option and the most tempting to me, so it's what I want to go for.
"Unasked for, but not undeserved." -- words that echo the narration during the time of Odyssial's Exalation, in Most High. "Grace. Unasked for, undeserved." And "Win. That's all that matters." is the last thing Catherine said to Hunger, and those memories are things that he said he would never sacrifice as they are his strength.
Together, these things things feel like they represent somebody who is just as determined... but also has elements of goodness or righteousness. And so I want to see what might come of that.
Lealope
Not yet invincible
- Pronouns
- She/Her
If you think 2 modifiers is sufficient preparation for Hunger to make it to High Cursebearer as an Indentured Apocryphal, I'm very curious what you think the higher levels of modifier would represent.
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
If you're going to weigh in like this, I strongly recommend you vote as a singleton for "Implicate Veil" or "Unbidden Grace" to help bring about the desired outcome.
Hunger dead.
RedV
Refuelling
- Location
- Right here
hope it doesn't get down to Shattering Blows yeah. Hunger still needs to rule the HS for several years more, which is gonna be hard Shattered and Apoc growing in power. Plus Aobaru may still try to hinder our growth if we are Shattered and he is unassailably stronger than us. He is already massively more powerful than rest of our companions and I don't trust him to not fuck up a defenseless Hunger given his stated motivation of keeping his universe safe.
I guess I will approval vote too, it's better to get a livable if not ideal ending than to end up roadkill.
[X] Innermost Sanctum
I guess I will approval vote too, it's better to get a livable if not ideal ending than to end up roadkill.
[X] Innermost Sanctum
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There is no point to Hunger surviving the fight against the Maiden if it's just going to end in failure with him dying before his vengeance is achieved.
At this point I don't even understand complaints leveraged against Hunger. Even the "but he is the one who decides what happens" crowd has no ground to stand on now that we gave Aobaru his theme park where people who want muh freedom can fuck off to be free of our influence. Right now all criticism boils down to there being some kind of possibility of Hunger going evil except a) there is no indication that Hunger will randomly go evil b) there are countless actual evils around to combat and Hunger is one of people out to combat them and c) any person capable of contesting Hunger would also fall under their own definition, making this completely fucking pointless.
That being said, I did like the idea of Hunger spreading his power to his entire people. I don't think that it is good idea from survival standpoint, and thus also not a good one from a moral one too(taking in account amount of good well meaning Hunger could accomplish in entirety of Indenture), but despite all of that it is something I would like to see done. It is just a very cool and unique approach to this.
That being said, I did like the idea of Hunger spreading his power to his entire people. I don't think that it is good idea from survival standpoint, and thus also not a good one from a moral one too(taking in account amount of good well meaning Hunger could accomplish in entirety of Indenture), but despite all of that it is something I would like to see done. It is just a very cool and unique approach to this.
- Location
- Canada
Concerning this vote, let's have a word from our QM:
R' — Today at 1:28 AM
2-3 could be feasible with good strategy and a powerful effort
R' — Today at 1:30 AM
note the phrasing 'might be feasible'
So in other words, picking 4+ options is suicide and picking 2-3 might leave us with a greater than 0% chance of success if we have a good strategy (and when has the playerbase come up with any particularly great strategies in this quest?) and make a powerful effort. Yeah, we should pick only one option.
But which one? Let's examine our options:
But the really terrifying part is that she receive all the powers of every Sorceress anywhere, including Gisena and Jeanne, which means she gets quarter speed Progression for one cardinality of infinite escalation (which make this option outright suicide if picked along with the infinite training time provided by Innermost Sanctum), Sophont Halo which increases her Sealing Protocol by one level, among other benefits, the Four Realms Sword which can attack a target along every physical and temporal axis and is capable of sealing a target fate, future, existence and relevance, along many many other abilities and benefits.
The Maiden being unable to speak is a limitation, sure, but doesn't seem like much of one even if some magics are dependant on the use of words.
On the plus side we get a chance to negotiate! But we only have a 10% chance of negotiation being possible at all combined with an unknown chance of negotiations being successful if they're possible at all, making the possibility of a peaceful outcome extremely remote.
Sure the definition of success can be finessed, but even then, how are we even supposed to defeat an enemy that always succeed at every major endeavor to a substantially meaningful extent? Does anyone who is voting for this even have a plan to deal with this nonsense? And even if we navigate that and are somehow on the verge of victory, she can just use Shattering Blow and just win anyway. Do not pick this. Pick anything but this.
So all the options are awful but we have no real choice but to pick the lesser evil here. Flower of Victory is an absolute no go and Innermost Sanctum is still a no go. Of the three options left I don't like that Unbidden Grace is basically guaranteed to give the Maiden a counter to pretty much all our abilities. Of the two options left, given the way the vote is structured, I'm going to strategically vote for
[X] Implicate Veil
R' — Today at 1:28 AM
2-3 could be feasible with good strategy and a powerful effort
R' — Today at 1:30 AM
note the phrasing 'might be feasible'
So in other words, picking 4+ options is suicide and picking 2-3 might leave us with a greater than 0% chance of success if we have a good strategy (and when has the playerbase come up with any particularly great strategies in this quest?) and make a powerful effort. Yeah, we should pick only one option.
But which one? Let's examine our options:
Bastion of Myth makes the boost to the Maiden Rank not nearly as bad as it would otherwise be, but it's still really bad given that even a 0.5 difference in Rank is an overwhelming advantage at this point.
But the really terrifying part is that she receive all the powers of every Sorceress anywhere, including Gisena and Jeanne, which means she gets quarter speed Progression for one cardinality of infinite escalation (which make this option outright suicide if picked along with the infinite training time provided by Innermost Sanctum), Sophont Halo which increases her Sealing Protocol by one level, among other benefits, the Four Realms Sword which can attack a target along every physical and temporal axis and is capable of sealing a target fate, future, existence and relevance, along many many other abilities and benefits.
The Maiden being unable to speak is a limitation, sure, but doesn't seem like much of one even if some magics are dependant on the use of words.
This "just" maxes out the power of all the Maiden graces and greatly increase all her Attributes and it deprives her of the ability to wield proper Foremost Sorcery. Nonetheless it would be a mistake to underestimate this upgrade: consider what a maximized version of Auspice Temporal's time acceleration and time stop would look like or what kind of marvels maximized Archsmith's Hammer would allow her to create! And she get this for every single Grace...
100 Arete of advancements specifically designed to counter Hunger is really bad, though there's the question of how that compares to the other options we're provided... 30% chance of any hostile effect being countered is also a problem but it should still be one that is possible to navigate.
On the plus side we get a chance to negotiate! But we only have a 10% chance of negotiation being possible at all combined with an unknown chance of negotiations being successful if they're possible at all, making the possibility of a peaceful outcome extremely remote.
Infinite training time, just infinite training time. Utterly suicidal if combined with the quarter speed Progression of Implicate Veil and still ridiculously bad if not. Depriving the Maiden of any form of true rest is probably useful but I'm not sure how much given her other methods of recuperation.
Do I really need to explain why this is a terrible idea? Look at the voting tally. Apparently I do!
Sure the definition of success can be finessed, but even then, how are we even supposed to defeat an enemy that always succeed at every major endeavor to a substantially meaningful extent? Does anyone who is voting for this even have a plan to deal with this nonsense? And even if we navigate that and are somehow on the verge of victory, she can just use Shattering Blow and just win anyway. Do not pick this. Pick anything but this.
So all the options are awful but we have no real choice but to pick the lesser evil here. Flower of Victory is an absolute no go and Innermost Sanctum is still a no go. Of the three options left I don't like that Unbidden Grace is basically guaranteed to give the Maiden a counter to pretty much all our abilities. Of the two options left, given the way the vote is structured, I'm going to strategically vote for
[X] Implicate Veil
Lealope
Not yet invincible
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Hmm. Some kind of hypertech Artifice to maintain a persistent Law/Mind/Space/Union effect that makes the legal and natural laws of a given area trend towards whatever the collective will of its inhabitants prefer, subject to some baseline hard-coded constraints (no eternal torture, no genocide, for example) such that everyone can perfectly and equally participate and not need to cede influence due to lack of resources or knowledge. No more oligarchs or representatives, just the will of the people in its purest form.
Perhaps true democracy has never been tried...
Perhaps true democracy has never been tried...
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- Location
- Italy
"Full Circle" reaction
well, let's see how it goes...
oh, that's more or less a fair estimate. After all, why they might technically have one millionth our power, CONCENTRATED power is just worth more.
Also, full circle indeed... it seems that we came back where we started, with Ceathlyinn being the Hero and Hunger being the Tyrant.
..except, you know, we're much nicer than the original one.
I imagine there's little chance of Diplomacy... but what kind of powerup would Ceathlynn need to measure up to us?
Let me think... she's human, and halfway improved already, so she could potentially get the True Quintessence.
Then, there's Lucenthorne.
What else... I suppose if Apocryphal went all in, she could also have found a Ring of Power, and possibly mastered it. That gives her a chance to trigger a contest of Primacy once she's ready to fight us.
So we have Ring, Lucenthorne, True Quintessence, and an empowered Armament, which could potentially be as good as basic Nova.
...even bringing those three together, it doesn't really feel like enough. What else can she do?
Ah, sure. Shattering Blow, Soul Evocation... maybe also Battle Magic for conceptual effects?
After this, all I can think of is "random new magical system".
In THIS specific scenario, It's hard to think of ANYTHING that would actually be improved by removing Hunger.
HUNGER, PLEASE, TELL ME WHAT I NEED TO DO! I WANT TO MOVE THERE! I WANT TO BRING MY WHOLE FAMILY!
Ceathlynn, please, be reasonable, Nearly everyone is happy with this! why ruin this!? You're not doing it for the people, you're not doing it for justice, you're doing this in pursuit of an empty, unreasonable ideal that few people would ever approve of at the costs it will require!
At least be honest with yourself, IF you act against us you're only doing it out of a selfish desire to impose your own ideals on reality.
As far as I'm concerned, UNLESS you have other reasons to act (like, for example, knowing about the Apocryphal's dangers), by rebelling (and worse, succeeding) you'd be a worst tyrant than us.
...I wonder, just how many of our people WOULD rebel, if they could? I find it hard to believe it would be many.
Most people KNOW that, in the grand scheme of things, their lives won't make a significant difference to the world.
She was an armament pilot, a "superwoman" too. In all the ways that matter, she was the exception, the 0.0000001%.
The average person KNOWS that, all things considered, they have little impact on their society, so giving up even that little impact for a supernaturally extended life of assured happiness, with no risks of accidental death, crimes or war... Most people would pay ANYTHING for such a chance.
I wonder, would the Accursed's perfect world look like this, but on a bigger scale? Maybe his instruments so perfected that people simply wouldn't even NOTICE they're in a cage at all, and just believe it's chance, or maybe just normal, that everywhere is at peace?
Yeah, expansion would normally be meaningless. Of course we have Indenture to worry about, though...
Also a small confirmation that Epistolary and Industrial realms are ALSO Foremost Realms.
I imagine the Voyaging Realm would have been the world of the heroes, then... though the one shard we know was there was actually the Arcanist, presumably one of the Makers... I'd love to hear a bit more about the other two realms though.
Voyaging was a fantasy realm full of monsters, magic and adventures. What would the other two realms be like?
The Republic was trying to extract mages from it. Was there anything of worth in the other two?
Maybe Industrial Realms comes with better sci-fy tech, but most of it doesn't work out of it?
Everything for Vengeance... that's sad.
I was about to wonder if it would have been any different if we had resurrected the Procyon pilot.. but I suppose it wouldn't.
It's not about their lives. It's about ideals and principles.
There's nothing more dangerous than an idealistic fool, willing to leave the world burning for a chance to realize their wish.
eh, like she can guarantee anything better would follow her rebellion. The obvious result of our system falling would be chaos and anarchy, unless she became a tyrant herself.
After all, how would you stop Humanity from using our technological and magical gifts for war?
Also, apparently we made the limited duration of our kingship public. That's slightly surprising.
ok, so We haven't yet conquered the whole Epistolary Realm, which is the realms of the Stewards (elves).
Well, to the previous powers I mentioned (Lucenthorn, ring, Etrynomm, True Quintessence, mixed magical systems, shattering blow, soul evocation, battle magic), I suppose you can add "becoming an avatar of shard X".
I suppose all of that together might be enough.
...wait a sec... Epistolary, Industrial, Voyaging REALMS... nah, I don't think the MANIFEST REALM could have been part of any of them...
...This place seems much higher level than even the worst parts of the Voyaging Realm.
Ehi Rihaku, were there actually any places in the VR comparable to this, or was Nilfel close to the "level cap"?
...ok, that actually hurts a bit.
She's a dark mirror of Hunger, and the original Catherine... but I like to believe that Hunger's Catherine would be ashamed of this other self.
...are we... are we in the Manifest Realm's future? Or maybe its past?
I can only imagine he's going to put her in contact with a Shard with True Quintessence. Possibly the MAIDEN herself...
really, is this the past or the future of the Manifest Realm, or just an alternate universe?!
the End to THIS story will be when we leave this world. The end to Ceathlynn Ceathlynn's story, on the other end...
Just to be clear, @Rihaku, is this including all our latest upgrades? Will we have any other chances to get more advancements to improve our chances before our fight?
...well, I suppose we'll have to try and find the most... antisynergistic combination we can.
Isn't that ironic?!
Also, this is the last enemy, as I expected. we WERE getting a bit too strong for a meaningful story anyway.
I'm just a bit annoyed we never got to meet Haeliel again, nor did we get a chance to see the highest level of the Ordinal Spire...
mh... well, this would have been much worse if we had gone with the Magic+Essence combo that would have empowered Gisena.
As things are, "all powers and abilities of every sorceress anywhere" basically means "Gisena's powers".
So, if we take this, we should prepare to face someone with Gisena's mental and social stats, and all her powers, including True Nullity lvl 2.
It shouldn't be TOO MUCH of a problem, as we have mostly outscaled her right now anyway. She's also Rank 15 IN THE EPISTOLARY, but that means she can't really use that power outside of it.
This might actually mean we have time to become even stronger, and we know NOT to Strenghten Gisena for this confrontation, or at least not by giving her any power or stats we don't expect the Maiden to have.
...Actually, we might indirectly weaken the Maiden by temporarily sealing Gisena's power/stats, maybe. Gisena will certainly NOT enjoy being made dumber, but it's probably worth it.
On that note, we can use our Seal of Ruin on the whole universe, so sealing the powers of ALL sorceresses (if there's any more we don't know of, or if we somehow made all people in the HS sorcerers and sorceresses) might be a good way to weaken her indirectly
On that note, maybe a temporary law: "All sorceresses will lose their powers until this threat has been dealt with".
mh... we don't know just how much of a difference this makes to her graces, but it sounds substantial. Considering we only have Gisena at lvl 3 (basic + sealing protocol + halo) for comparison... I think I'm against this one in particular. It's much more dangerous than the previous one.
mh... even this sounds LESS dangerous than Sealing Protocol: level Omega.
After all, a maximized grace like Auspice Temportal or Hyper Reactor sound a LOT like and EFB anyway.
Also, I just noticed: if you combine Maximized Hyper Reactor with "have the powers of all sorceresses", she can literally become stronger by gifting Graces to people!
infinite training time is a massive multiplier to any other power. It's probably the LEAST bad with the "get the powers of other sorceresses", as that one doesn't really benefit THAT much from this.
If you combine it with the 100 arete worth of EFB, or the "level omega" graces though... no thanks.
mh... this might not be horrible when paired with that option with 10% chance of diplomacy.
ok, as of right now my combo would be Implicate Veil + Innermost Sanctum.
I'm willing to be persuaded otherwise.
1702 words
well, let's see how it goes...
oh, that's more or less a fair estimate. After all, why they might technically have one millionth our power, CONCENTRATED power is just worth more.
Also, full circle indeed... it seems that we came back where we started, with Ceathlyinn being the Hero and Hunger being the Tyrant.
..except, you know, we're much nicer than the original one.
I imagine there's little chance of Diplomacy... but what kind of powerup would Ceathlynn need to measure up to us?
Let me think... she's human, and halfway improved already, so she could potentially get the True Quintessence.
Then, there's Lucenthorne.
What else... I suppose if Apocryphal went all in, she could also have found a Ring of Power, and possibly mastered it. That gives her a chance to trigger a contest of Primacy once she's ready to fight us.
So we have Ring, Lucenthorne, True Quintessence, and an empowered Armament, which could potentially be as good as basic Nova.
...even bringing those three together, it doesn't really feel like enough. What else can she do?
Ah, sure. Shattering Blow, Soul Evocation... maybe also Battle Magic for conceptual effects?
After this, all I can think of is "random new magical system".
...Honestly, that sounds good. I'd gladly live in that world. Not having to worry about economic crises, pandemics, the risk of war, or even such relatively unimportant (when compared to the other ones) problems like drugs, planned obsolescence and corruption.
In THIS specific scenario, It's hard to think of ANYTHING that would actually be improved by removing Hunger.
no, seriously, how do I sign up? That's the Human Sphere, I'm a human, I WANT TO LIVE THERE!!!
wait, if you're bored of the perfect life you can even have your isekai adventure in the Voyaging Realm?
HUNGER, PLEASE, TELL ME WHAT I NEED TO DO! I WANT TO MOVE THERE! I WANT TO BRING MY WHOLE FAMILY!
Ceathlynn, please, be reasonable, Nearly everyone is happy with this! why ruin this!? You're not doing it for the people, you're not doing it for justice, you're doing this in pursuit of an empty, unreasonable ideal that few people would ever approve of at the costs it will require!
indeed, WHY would you?
At least be honest with yourself, IF you act against us you're only doing it out of a selfish desire to impose your own ideals on reality.
As far as I'm concerned, UNLESS you have other reasons to act (like, for example, knowing about the Apocryphal's dangers), by rebelling (and worse, succeeding) you'd be a worst tyrant than us.
...I wonder, just how many of our people WOULD rebel, if they could? I find it hard to believe it would be many.
I suppose that's because she's never been "normal".
Most people KNOW that, in the grand scheme of things, their lives won't make a significant difference to the world.
She was an armament pilot, a "superwoman" too. In all the ways that matter, she was the exception, the 0.0000001%.
The average person KNOWS that, all things considered, they have little impact on their society, so giving up even that little impact for a supernaturally extended life of assured happiness, with no risks of accidental death, crimes or war... Most people would pay ANYTHING for such a chance.
I wonder, would the Accursed's perfect world look like this, but on a bigger scale? Maybe his instruments so perfected that people simply wouldn't even NOTICE they're in a cage at all, and just believe it's chance, or maybe just normal, that everywhere is at peace?
Yeah, expansion would normally be meaningless. Of course we have Indenture to worry about, though...
Also a small confirmation that Epistolary and Industrial realms are ALSO Foremost Realms.
I imagine the Voyaging Realm would have been the world of the heroes, then... though the one shard we know was there was actually the Arcanist, presumably one of the Makers... I'd love to hear a bit more about the other two realms though.
Voyaging was a fantasy realm full of monsters, magic and adventures. What would the other two realms be like?
The Republic was trying to extract mages from it. Was there anything of worth in the other two?
Maybe Industrial Realms comes with better sci-fy tech, but most of it doesn't work out of it?
...she's really a dark mirror to Hunger, I suppose.
Everything for Vengeance... that's sad.
I was about to wonder if it would have been any different if we had resurrected the Procyon pilot.. but I suppose it wouldn't.
It's not about their lives. It's about ideals and principles.
There's nothing more dangerous than an idealistic fool, willing to leave the world burning for a chance to realize their wish.
eh, like she can guarantee anything better would follow her rebellion. The obvious result of our system falling would be chaos and anarchy, unless she became a tyrant herself.
After all, how would you stop Humanity from using our technological and magical gifts for war?
Also, apparently we made the limited duration of our kingship public. That's slightly surprising.
ok, so We haven't yet conquered the whole Epistolary Realm, which is the realms of the Stewards (elves).
Well, to the previous powers I mentioned (Lucenthorn, ring, Etrynomm, True Quintessence, mixed magical systems, shattering blow, soul evocation, battle magic), I suppose you can add "becoming an avatar of shard X".
I suppose all of that together might be enough.
...wait a sec... Epistolary, Industrial, Voyaging REALMS... nah, I don't think the MANIFEST REALM could have been part of any of them...
...This place seems much higher level than even the worst parts of the Voyaging Realm.
Ehi Rihaku, were there actually any places in the VR comparable to this, or was Nilfel close to the "level cap"?
...ok, that actually hurts a bit.
She's a dark mirror of Hunger, and the original Catherine... but I like to believe that Hunger's Catherine would be ashamed of this other self.
... is he FAELIAD THE NIGHTSLAUGHTER or am I misremembering the name?
...are we... are we in the Manifest Realm's future? Or maybe its past?
...ehi, thanks pal, really appreciated, now could you please send her away or imprisone her until we reach your lands, I'm sure we could work out an Agreement leaving the Epistolary to you just like we left the Voyaging to Shogunbaru...
...I HATE this dark mirror imagery... It's REALLY uncomfortable.
...noooooo... I have a bad feeling about this.
I can only imagine he's going to put her in contact with a Shard with True Quintessence. Possibly the MAIDEN herself...
really, is this the past or the future of the Manifest Realm, or just an alternate universe?!
...did she... did she just melt Etrynome?!
Of course there's always an ending. He's called "The Accursed" more often than not.
the End to THIS story will be when we leave this world. The end to Ceathlynn Ceathlynn's story, on the other end...
..a 4 pick, and it's the BASE LEVEL?!
Just to be clear, @Rihaku, is this including all our latest upgrades? Will we have any other chances to get more advancements to improve our chances before our fight?
...well, I suppose we'll have to try and find the most... antisynergistic combination we can.
Isn't that ironic?!
Also, this is the last enemy, as I expected. we WERE getting a bit too strong for a meaningful story anyway.
I'm just a bit annoyed we never got to meet Haeliel again, nor did we get a chance to see the highest level of the Ordinal Spire...
mh... well, this would have been much worse if we had gone with the Magic+Essence combo that would have empowered Gisena.
As things are, "all powers and abilities of every sorceress anywhere" basically means "Gisena's powers".
So, if we take this, we should prepare to face someone with Gisena's mental and social stats, and all her powers, including True Nullity lvl 2.
It shouldn't be TOO MUCH of a problem, as we have mostly outscaled her right now anyway. She's also Rank 15 IN THE EPISTOLARY, but that means she can't really use that power outside of it.
This might actually mean we have time to become even stronger, and we know NOT to Strenghten Gisena for this confrontation, or at least not by giving her any power or stats we don't expect the Maiden to have.
...Actually, we might indirectly weaken the Maiden by temporarily sealing Gisena's power/stats, maybe. Gisena will certainly NOT enjoy being made dumber, but it's probably worth it.
On that note, we can use our Seal of Ruin on the whole universe, so sealing the powers of ALL sorceresses (if there's any more we don't know of, or if we somehow made all people in the HS sorcerers and sorceresses) might be a good way to weaken her indirectly
On that note, maybe a temporary law: "All sorceresses will lose their powers until this threat has been dealt with".
mh... we don't know just how much of a difference this makes to her graces, but it sounds substantial. Considering we only have Gisena at lvl 3 (basic + sealing protocol + halo) for comparison... I think I'm against this one in particular. It's much more dangerous than the previous one.
mh... even this sounds LESS dangerous than Sealing Protocol: level Omega.
After all, a maximized grace like Auspice Temportal or Hyper Reactor sound a LOT like and EFB anyway.
Also, I just noticed: if you combine Maximized Hyper Reactor with "have the powers of all sorceresses", she can literally become stronger by gifting Graces to people!
infinite training time is a massive multiplier to any other power. It's probably the LEAST bad with the "get the powers of other sorceresses", as that one doesn't really benefit THAT much from this.
If you combine it with the 100 arete worth of EFB, or the "level omega" graces though... no thanks.
mh... this might not be horrible when paired with that option with 10% chance of diplomacy.
ok, as of right now my combo would be Implicate Veil + Innermost Sanctum.
I'm willing to be persuaded otherwise.
1702 words
Amusing idea/way to use an argument for Ceathlynn:
Convince her that the true tyranny is not that of Hunger... but Hunger's CURSES.
The Tyrant's Doom, the Indenture, and the Apocryphal.
After all, it is not Hunger who wants to "Why don't you put the whole world in a bottle, Superman?" It is his Geass Task that compels him to action; it is his Tyrant's Doom that compels him to be unable to brook any equal or superior, other than the Accursed, which makes it impossible for him to brook disagreement or dissent; and it is the Apocryphal (combined with the long length of the Indenture and its forced task completion) that forces him to constantly escalate and to constantly advance.
Switch the blame from Hunger to the Curses he labors under.
Also: that go-getter attitude of "Never give up, not even against a Universal Tyrant! Not even if rebellion is meaningless or pointless!"? That incredible spirit? That could be useful for a Cursebearer, have you considered joining this august association of our's...
Convince her that the true tyranny is not that of Hunger... but Hunger's CURSES.
The Tyrant's Doom, the Indenture, and the Apocryphal.
After all, it is not Hunger who wants to "Why don't you put the whole world in a bottle, Superman?" It is his Geass Task that compels him to action; it is his Tyrant's Doom that compels him to be unable to brook any equal or superior, other than the Accursed, which makes it impossible for him to brook disagreement or dissent; and it is the Apocryphal (combined with the long length of the Indenture and its forced task completion) that forces him to constantly escalate and to constantly advance.
Switch the blame from Hunger to the Curses he labors under.
Also: that go-getter attitude of "Never give up, not even against a Universal Tyrant! Not even if rebellion is meaningless or pointless!"? That incredible spirit? That could be useful for a Cursebearer, have you considered joining this august association of our's...
- Location
- Canada
Don't forget Jeanne from Seram's Interlude! Plus there's probably other uber-sorceress spread across the multiverse...
Don't forget that Gisena has quarter speed Progression valid for an entire cardinality of infinite escalation...
Again Gisena has quarter speed Progression. Quarter speed Progression plus infinite training time is pretty much an auto-loss for us.
Aabcehmu
Confusion as a Natural State of Being
- Location
- Chicago, IL
- Pronouns
- Any/All
[X] Flower of Victory
I know it's not strictly the easiest if the five, but I do think that giving the Maiden the Flower of Victory with nothing else maximizes the chance of her pursuing victory in a way which doesn't involve direct conflict with Hunger (who is, after all, immensely dangerous even to her). She will always be able to do more good if she is alive rather than dead, and with the Flower of Victory, she will have the means to dismantle Hunger's empire before fucking off to do good elsewhere and avoid being a tyrant herself.
I know it's not strictly the easiest if the five, but I do think that giving the Maiden the Flower of Victory with nothing else maximizes the chance of her pursuing victory in a way which doesn't involve direct conflict with Hunger (who is, after all, immensely dangerous even to her). She will always be able to do more good if she is alive rather than dead, and with the Flower of Victory, she will have the means to dismantle Hunger's empire before fucking off to do good elsewhere and avoid being a tyrant herself.
Quality matters. As an example, infinite amount of echoes still only amounts only to ISH 1.9 and getting punked like a bug by current Hunger.
Cat obviously has a baseline level of talent, potential access to well-scaling systems, and winds of Apo buffeting her progress. She obviously will progress past "totally irrelevant" level, but rough approx. level for one-advantage Cat is known, and it is
Sanctum is an absolute bitch of an Advantage when combined with... pretty much anything on the list, though. It is "just get fucked, lol" strong on its own, but it is a very potent synergy fuel.
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