A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
- Original
One thing I didn't touch upon is how Law covers Space's Human Sphere defense plan. As you can remember, I've talked about getting HtQ so Adorie could act as metaphysics for Human Sphere. That way, if Apo does something like Astral collapse event or otherwise does something that would remove fundamental rules Human Sphere depends no(i.e. deleting concept of humanity out of multiverse), Adorie would take over as metaphysics and ensure survival of Human Sphere. That is a weakness of Space, because it can only defend from direct threats, but not from this kind of attacks.
With Law, however, Hunger himself sets laws of existence around his person. Thus if we shrink Human Sphere and put it in our pocket, we will also get to be the one enforcing the metaphysics within it, neatly solving that weakness of Space.
With Law, however, Hunger himself sets laws of existence around his person. Thus if we shrink Human Sphere and put it in our pocket, we will also get to be the one enforcing the metaphysics within it, neatly solving that weakness of Space.
Rihaku
The Internet
Indeed, it's a very convenient Apocryphal vector, to say nothing of the potentially immense collateral damage!
Speaking of Hunger Sated, I'm assuming that artifact Gisena made is not relevant at this level? I would be all for slotting it into our Artifacts to buff it up, seeing how integral finding natural sources of Hunger Sated is. And we even lack Truth as a Domain for some advanced augury..
- Location
- Italy
I'd love to say choosing Decimator was a mistake, but the truth is that there wasn't a good choice.
Lunacy, Slumber, Plenary and Champion all came with their own problems..
eh, apparently there's no targets in this universe anymore, so it couldn't point us to anything.
Didn't it also rely on the Azure to function? I wouldn't be surprised if it stopped working after we sacrificed it
- Location
- Europe
8th Stage Taijitu Ascension
Inklings Total: 72
Opinions Total: 14 [10] (21)
Memories Total: 2 [4] (7)
[ ] TSH Brightest White [2 Inherent Memories]
[ ] Overwrite. [2 Inherent Memories]
[ ] Nihilus. [1 Inherent Memory]
[ ] Alter Button. [5 Informative Opinions]
[ ] Non-Existent. [2 Informative Opinions]
[ ] Grey. [1 Informative Opinion]
[ ] Forgetful. [5 Insightful Inklings]
[ ] Blue. [4 Insightful Inklings]
Cost: 5M, 20O, 69I
My Lost Realm build.
I'd have liked to make White true as well, but couldn't afford it.
Here's the idea:
White scales off conflicting and corrupting powers, the goal then is to acquire a way to acquire or generate more of those.
Overwrite could presumably do this, while Nihilus expands its scope and Non-existent improves Nihilus. The Alter Button also synergizes with Overwrite.
The main limitation on Overwrite seems to be a lack of knowledge on what you are generating, therefore Blue provides a method of knowledge acquisition. Blue scales off of acquired Knowledge, particularly forbidden or dangerous knowledge. White protects from Cognitohazards. Grey allows you to create knowledge by setting up fake identities or acquire it through various scams, which also benefit from the knowledge Blue can provide for a given target. Forgetful then makes maintaining separate identities and mysteries easier. Grey also allows you to create illusions, which is to say things that are not real but have an effect as if they were. I expect there would be further synergy with Nihilus and Non-existent.
From the perspective of writing about it, this build has too many moving parts for me to be comfortable with it, but from the perspective of someone using it, it should be quite manageable.
The endpoint of this build is probably to create Vanta Black or Anti-white, or whatever you end up calling it, which creates antithetical powers passively. Then you've got your own White/Black Yin/Yang core to scale with. Given white has TSH it could get you pretty far, but probably not to the level of Stage 3 mitigation, somewhere around stage 2 probably.
Inklings Total: 72
Opinions Total: 14 [10] (21)
Memories Total: 2 [4] (7)
[ ] TSH Brightest White [2 Inherent Memories]
[ ] Overwrite. [2 Inherent Memories]
[ ] Nihilus. [1 Inherent Memory]
[ ] Alter Button. [5 Informative Opinions]
[ ] Non-Existent. [2 Informative Opinions]
[ ] Grey. [1 Informative Opinion]
[ ] Forgetful. [5 Insightful Inklings]
[ ] Blue. [4 Insightful Inklings]
Cost: 5M, 20O, 69I
My Lost Realm build.
I'd have liked to make White true as well, but couldn't afford it.
Here's the idea:
White scales off conflicting and corrupting powers, the goal then is to acquire a way to acquire or generate more of those.
Overwrite could presumably do this, while Nihilus expands its scope and Non-existent improves Nihilus. The Alter Button also synergizes with Overwrite.
The main limitation on Overwrite seems to be a lack of knowledge on what you are generating, therefore Blue provides a method of knowledge acquisition. Blue scales off of acquired Knowledge, particularly forbidden or dangerous knowledge. White protects from Cognitohazards. Grey allows you to create knowledge by setting up fake identities or acquire it through various scams, which also benefit from the knowledge Blue can provide for a given target. Forgetful then makes maintaining separate identities and mysteries easier. Grey also allows you to create illusions, which is to say things that are not real but have an effect as if they were. I expect there would be further synergy with Nihilus and Non-existent.
From the perspective of writing about it, this build has too many moving parts for me to be comfortable with it, but from the perspective of someone using it, it should be quite manageable.
The endpoint of this build is probably to create Vanta Black or Anti-white, or whatever you end up calling it, which creates antithetical powers passively. Then you've got your own White/Black Yin/Yang core to scale with. Given white has TSH it could get you pretty far, but probably not to the level of Stage 3 mitigation, somewhere around stage 2 probably.
- Location
- Louisiana
Ok but hear me out, if we get myth now we get REALLY cool archmage blurbs after this. Yeah we could get myth after but then we wouldn't get to see how other domains get affected by myth. I'm thinking about the real gains here, blurb posts.
- Location
- Peterborough, NH, USA
[X] Refinement of Battle: The Best Defense
[X] The Imprisoner True
So, what are the odds Law makes jailbreaking powers easier? I remember asking if Tree of Liberty could unlock the Imaginary Elements we passed over, as well as those our party passed over, and Rihaku said that it was possible, but it wasn't really worth the effort at our level. Could Law allow for an effect like TSH's limitation-breaking? If nothing else, after grabbing Life, Spirit, Magic, and Essence, I'd expect it to be possible.
[X] The Imprisoner True
So, what are the odds Law makes jailbreaking powers easier? I remember asking if Tree of Liberty could unlock the Imaginary Elements we passed over, as well as those our party passed over, and Rihaku said that it was possible, but it wasn't really worth the effort at our level. Could Law allow for an effect like TSH's limitation-breaking? If nothing else, after grabbing Life, Spirit, Magic, and Essence, I'd expect it to be possible.
Tyrant_Rayne
Probably Not Evil… Maybe
- Location
- Canada
I would be interested.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
I've been fairly indecisive so far, more information would be helpful.
basically this
Besides, this is basically more blurb wordcount, how could any of us refuse
No, we don't.
1. The scale starts at 0, not 1.
2. We still don't have confirmation that Legendary increased Aobaru's stat buff to 1.3. I personally doubt it, +1 ISH to a wide variety of abilities is almost certainly more than +1 to the total potency of the buff.
Edit: 3. Where are you getting an extra +1 ISH to Ruin beyond what our other Attributes have?
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- Location
- Peterborough, NH, USA
@Rihaku
So, doing the calculations for the next Greedyverse Omake. Thing is, I've have to recalculate several times now. I've softcapped the benefits to Coin Forgery+Nothing Magic's production of the currencies Forgotten is interested in to *100 per distinct magic, partially for the sake of my sanity, partially because of diminishing returns as of being a technical beginner. Problem is, Greedy starts at roughly 100 Inherent Memories or equivalent in terms of what she can slap down per item since she's already so advanced in the relevant magics. Nihilus+Overwrite working together provides a *100. Blue's empowerment of all magics, Yellow's boost to transmutation, now applying outside of strict alchemical bounds thanks to Black, TSH, and over 20 True-equivalent power-ups both apply a *100 as well. Orange's skill boost provides *100 as well. Pink's finesse boost squeezes out another *100.
That moves the 100-200 Inherent Memory cap up to 1-2 trillion Inherent Memories, 4-8 trillion Opinions, or 40-80 trillion Inklings. This is enough to get Non-Existent, for example, up to Fake*41 for 4,398,046,511,104 Opinions, or -8.0 on the ISH scale with TSH subtracted from the equation, and White up to Fake*40 for not-quite 1.1 trillion Memories, which even with 2 set on TSH and Legendary, is 38 multiplications by the power of True. Now, Forgotten is equipped to deal out effects up to ISH 10(and will probably make mention of her being his second-best customer in the actual Omake), but I'm not sure 'the cost doubles per 0.2 on the ISH' isn't an underestimation of the difficulty, even if a thousand Inherent Memories is something you'd normally need to burn an entire multiverse to have a shot at making, and only Nothing Magic's dominions over things which don't exist and Coin Forgery allowing Greedy to take advantage of them being treated like currency makes remotely possible.
If this is possible, ignoring the unlikeliness of getting such a specific group of powers to this level of mastery, then between Non-Existent's -8.0 on the ISH to negative effects, and Legendary White with 38 True-tier power-ups, would a third Legendary be possible?
So, doing the calculations for the next Greedyverse Omake. Thing is, I've have to recalculate several times now. I've softcapped the benefits to Coin Forgery+Nothing Magic's production of the currencies Forgotten is interested in to *100 per distinct magic, partially for the sake of my sanity, partially because of diminishing returns as of being a technical beginner. Problem is, Greedy starts at roughly 100 Inherent Memories or equivalent in terms of what she can slap down per item since she's already so advanced in the relevant magics. Nihilus+Overwrite working together provides a *100. Blue's empowerment of all magics, Yellow's boost to transmutation, now applying outside of strict alchemical bounds thanks to Black, TSH, and over 20 True-equivalent power-ups both apply a *100 as well. Orange's skill boost provides *100 as well. Pink's finesse boost squeezes out another *100.
That moves the 100-200 Inherent Memory cap up to 1-2 trillion Inherent Memories, 4-8 trillion Opinions, or 40-80 trillion Inklings. This is enough to get Non-Existent, for example, up to Fake*41 for 4,398,046,511,104 Opinions, or -8.0 on the ISH scale with TSH subtracted from the equation, and White up to Fake*40 for not-quite 1.1 trillion Memories, which even with 2 set on TSH and Legendary, is 38 multiplications by the power of True. Now, Forgotten is equipped to deal out effects up to ISH 10(and will probably make mention of her being his second-best customer in the actual Omake), but I'm not sure 'the cost doubles per 0.2 on the ISH' isn't an underestimation of the difficulty, even if a thousand Inherent Memories is something you'd normally need to burn an entire multiverse to have a shot at making, and only Nothing Magic's dominions over things which don't exist and Coin Forgery allowing Greedy to take advantage of them being treated like currency makes remotely possible.
If this is possible, ignoring the unlikeliness of getting such a specific group of powers to this level of mastery, then between Non-Existent's -8.0 on the ISH to negative effects, and Legendary White with 38 True-tier power-ups, would a third Legendary be possible?
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Soul Evocation Details
Rihaku
The Internet
Imprisoner True
Echo Gain Rate - 25 / month
RoB Multiplier - 60x
Sanctum: Within a 3-meter radius of Hunger (immutable to spatial alteration), he receives the following modifiers -
*Invincible - +0.3 ISH to all abilities, -0.5 ISH to enemy abilities, effects below base ISH 3.0 cannot oppose the wielder. A vigintillion point-blank supernovas would be no more troublesome than a breeze.
*Paradox Seal - Triple all Attributes after modifiers, instead septuple all Attributes against Heroes
*Domination - Save by his leave, entities within radius cannot act counter to wielder's desires. Against beings who would resist this ISH 3.5 effect, gain +200 Charisma and +100% to Holy Shit Modifier
*Titled - Enemies suffer -10%, and Hunger gains +10%, multiplicatively to All Attributes per exchange. Applies to all contests. Permanent until target leaves radius. Reduce by 10% multiplicatively the effects of any debuffs upon Hunger per exchange (or per attosecond, outside of contests). Does not appreciably mitigate Curses.
Space: Near-arbitrary warping of space. Essentially anything that an unrestricted mid-multiverse level reality warper can perform using spatial manipulation alone, Hunger can replicate with effort. Wrap the Human Sphere in powerful dimensional shields that displace all incoming attacks; allow for trivial inter-sphere Travel for all planets; cover the entire universe in Flood of Runes.
Law: Laws supernaturally enforced. Perfect construction of laws. Can adjust laws of physics and, to a degree, metaphysics. Can fiat otherwise impossible effects within one's legitimately controlled territory. Can adjust definition of legitimacy. Targets that oppose the wielder's legitimate decrees suffer massive penalties, while those who seek to impose the appropriate legal consequences receive massive bonuses.
Sealing: Can perform all feats described under Seven Seals easily, though stat modifiers are abstracted into Invincible.
Human Sphere Security *****
Human Sphere Prosperity ****
Tree of Liberty
Echo Gain Rate - 45 + 30 / month
RoB Multiplier - 60x
Personal: Hunger himself receives these benefits
*Superlative Regeneration - Heal instantly from all forms of physical or spiritual damage. Adapt to damage taken, reducing further damage with no upper limit (currently: seven orders of magnitude damage reduction in All Resist, stacks w/ Protection). Become physically and spiritually stronger whenever damaged. Hunger is constantly damaging himself, receiving effective growth of one additional Echo per day.
*Illimitable Might - Echoes of the Forebear grant +++++Might, Agility, and Willpower. +0.2 Rank before multipliers.
*Mastery of Form - Arbitrary shapeshifting within mass limits of 1000x / .001x. +200% effective Might, Agility, Protection.
*Phasing Cloak - Counts as wholly spiritual if convenient. Selective intangibility, spiritual perception, etc.
*Bane of Foes - Living or ensouled enemies within close range suffer -250% All Attributes, -2 Rank. Can be lethal.
Populace: Hunger's subjects receive these benefits
*Vitruvian - Vitruvian template applied.
*Restoration - Human Sphere populace resurrected and freed of negative influences. You can resurrect Vanreir, Letrizia's dad, Augustine etc if you want. They won't be very useful.
*Echo of the Forebear - Rapid flawless regeneration from a single cell, swiftly recovers from spiritual malaise of all kinds. Strengthens clones by two orders of magnitude; each can now face a hundred Armaments in single combat.
*Indomitable Morale - +++++++++Willpower and can train Willpower like a muscle. Spiritual aegis defends Sphere from attacks <2.5 ISH.
*Paradisaical - Hypertech biological innovations vastly improve quality of life for Human Sphere inhabitants.
Human Sphere Security ***
Human Sphere Prosperity *****
Master of Myths
Echo Gain Rate - 25 / month
RoB Multiplier - 700x
Ruin - 9500x multiplier to Ruin on top of the RoB multiplier. Hunger's power of Ruin is roughly 400,000 as powerful before Echo Gain. Notably improves Seal of Ruin and All-Defeating Stance as well, of course. Alternatively, only a 2000x multiplier in exchange for fine-grained control of Ruin - effective dominion over the fate of targets, but only in an entropic direction. Can selectively target negatives like 'weakness,' of course. This variant grants +250 effective Luck.
Commingling - Merge Ruin and Nullity, allowing Hunger and Gisena to benefit from all the powers of both, and at full strength.
Mythos - Can perform virtually any magical effect at planetary scale, so long as too much finesse / subtlety is not required. +150 All Stats, +0.1 Rank before multipliers.
High Master - Buffs apply to allies as well. Allies receive +0.7 ISH and +150 to All Stats. Enemy magics co-opted or enormously suppressed.
Human Sphere Security ***
Human Sphere Prosperity ***
Unending Hunger
Echo Gain Rate - 35 / month
RoB Multiplier - 90x
Mitigation - This is the primary benefit of the build, its nature having been covered previously. Suffice to say that an additional half-stage reduction of Apocryphal and Decimator would be very relevant right now, and Indenture wouldn't hurt either.
Novhlengorge - A formidable addition to Hunger's arsenal alongside the armor compression, their effective combined power being closer to a DBZ fusion than mere summation of their stats. Of course, Letrizia will be sad, but needs must. We're looking at a Rank 12.5 Artifact with Attributes in the 50,000-70,000 range.
Utility Artifacts - Beyond being capable of constructing powerful general hypertechnology, Hunger can also use Artifice as a force multiplier on his other Domains, allowing for some replication of the Master of Myth benefits to the Human Sphere, with greater ease of distribution.
Union - The ability to merge concepts, objects and people, even without the exponential power boost of Closing the Fist, can be quite relevant in many situations. The ability to draw power from unity, and strengthen unity across polities and vectors, grants substantial power while supported by the populace. +1 Rank (flat), +300 All Stats, during publicly communicated events where Hunger's plight is known to his empire. Of course, they may not be able to perceive such dangers in time to be relevant.
Human Sphere Effective Security **** due to lower danger levels
Human Sphere Prosperity ***
Echo Gain Rate - 25 / month
RoB Multiplier - 60x
Sanctum: Within a 3-meter radius of Hunger (immutable to spatial alteration), he receives the following modifiers -
*Invincible - +0.3 ISH to all abilities, -0.5 ISH to enemy abilities, effects below base ISH 3.0 cannot oppose the wielder. A vigintillion point-blank supernovas would be no more troublesome than a breeze.
*Paradox Seal - Triple all Attributes after modifiers, instead septuple all Attributes against Heroes
*Domination - Save by his leave, entities within radius cannot act counter to wielder's desires. Against beings who would resist this ISH 3.5 effect, gain +200 Charisma and +100% to Holy Shit Modifier
*Titled - Enemies suffer -10%, and Hunger gains +10%, multiplicatively to All Attributes per exchange. Applies to all contests. Permanent until target leaves radius. Reduce by 10% multiplicatively the effects of any debuffs upon Hunger per exchange (or per attosecond, outside of contests). Does not appreciably mitigate Curses.
Space: Near-arbitrary warping of space. Essentially anything that an unrestricted mid-multiverse level reality warper can perform using spatial manipulation alone, Hunger can replicate with effort. Wrap the Human Sphere in powerful dimensional shields that displace all incoming attacks; allow for trivial inter-sphere Travel for all planets; cover the entire universe in Flood of Runes.
Law: Laws supernaturally enforced. Perfect construction of laws. Can adjust laws of physics and, to a degree, metaphysics. Can fiat otherwise impossible effects within one's legitimately controlled territory. Can adjust definition of legitimacy. Targets that oppose the wielder's legitimate decrees suffer massive penalties, while those who seek to impose the appropriate legal consequences receive massive bonuses.
Sealing: Can perform all feats described under Seven Seals easily, though stat modifiers are abstracted into Invincible.
Human Sphere Security *****
Human Sphere Prosperity ****
Tree of Liberty
Echo Gain Rate - 45 + 30 / month
RoB Multiplier - 60x
Personal: Hunger himself receives these benefits
*Superlative Regeneration - Heal instantly from all forms of physical or spiritual damage. Adapt to damage taken, reducing further damage with no upper limit (currently: seven orders of magnitude damage reduction in All Resist, stacks w/ Protection). Become physically and spiritually stronger whenever damaged. Hunger is constantly damaging himself, receiving effective growth of one additional Echo per day.
*Illimitable Might - Echoes of the Forebear grant +++++Might, Agility, and Willpower. +0.2 Rank before multipliers.
*Mastery of Form - Arbitrary shapeshifting within mass limits of 1000x / .001x. +200% effective Might, Agility, Protection.
*Phasing Cloak - Counts as wholly spiritual if convenient. Selective intangibility, spiritual perception, etc.
*Bane of Foes - Living or ensouled enemies within close range suffer -250% All Attributes, -2 Rank. Can be lethal.
Populace: Hunger's subjects receive these benefits
*Vitruvian - Vitruvian template applied.
*Restoration - Human Sphere populace resurrected and freed of negative influences. You can resurrect Vanreir, Letrizia's dad, Augustine etc if you want. They won't be very useful.
*Echo of the Forebear - Rapid flawless regeneration from a single cell, swiftly recovers from spiritual malaise of all kinds. Strengthens clones by two orders of magnitude; each can now face a hundred Armaments in single combat.
*Indomitable Morale - +++++++++Willpower and can train Willpower like a muscle. Spiritual aegis defends Sphere from attacks <2.5 ISH.
*Paradisaical - Hypertech biological innovations vastly improve quality of life for Human Sphere inhabitants.
Human Sphere Security ***
Human Sphere Prosperity *****
Master of Myths
Echo Gain Rate - 25 / month
RoB Multiplier - 700x
Ruin - 9500x multiplier to Ruin on top of the RoB multiplier. Hunger's power of Ruin is roughly 400,000 as powerful before Echo Gain. Notably improves Seal of Ruin and All-Defeating Stance as well, of course. Alternatively, only a 2000x multiplier in exchange for fine-grained control of Ruin - effective dominion over the fate of targets, but only in an entropic direction. Can selectively target negatives like 'weakness,' of course. This variant grants +250 effective Luck.
Commingling - Merge Ruin and Nullity, allowing Hunger and Gisena to benefit from all the powers of both, and at full strength.
Mythos - Can perform virtually any magical effect at planetary scale, so long as too much finesse / subtlety is not required. +150 All Stats, +0.1 Rank before multipliers.
High Master - Buffs apply to allies as well. Allies receive +0.7 ISH and +150 to All Stats. Enemy magics co-opted or enormously suppressed.
Human Sphere Security ***
Human Sphere Prosperity ***
Unending Hunger
Echo Gain Rate - 35 / month
RoB Multiplier - 90x
Mitigation - This is the primary benefit of the build, its nature having been covered previously. Suffice to say that an additional half-stage reduction of Apocryphal and Decimator would be very relevant right now, and Indenture wouldn't hurt either.
Novhlengorge - A formidable addition to Hunger's arsenal alongside the armor compression, their effective combined power being closer to a DBZ fusion than mere summation of their stats. Of course, Letrizia will be sad, but needs must. We're looking at a Rank 12.5 Artifact with Attributes in the 50,000-70,000 range.
Utility Artifacts - Beyond being capable of constructing powerful general hypertechnology, Hunger can also use Artifice as a force multiplier on his other Domains, allowing for some replication of the Master of Myth benefits to the Human Sphere, with greater ease of distribution.
Union - The ability to merge concepts, objects and people, even without the exponential power boost of Closing the Fist, can be quite relevant in many situations. The ability to draw power from unity, and strengthen unity across polities and vectors, grants substantial power while supported by the populace. +1 Rank (flat), +300 All Stats, during publicly communicated events where Hunger's plight is known to his empire. Of course, they may not be able to perceive such dangers in time to be relevant.
Human Sphere Effective Security **** due to lower danger levels
Human Sphere Prosperity ***
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ImperatorV
The Laughing One
- Location
- The Voyaging Realm
Archmage remains the best thing in this quest. Now, the considering the new information...
I think Imprisoner True is the best, although there's something to be said with combining Master of Myths with The Best Defense for MAXIMUM RUIN. And mitigation remains incredibly useful... Difficult choice.
[X] The Imprisoner True
I think Imprisoner True is the best, although there's something to be said with combining Master of Myths with The Best Defense for MAXIMUM RUIN. And mitigation remains incredibly useful... Difficult choice.
[X] The Imprisoner True
[X] Refinement of Quickness: Always Forward
[X] The Imprisoner True
Righto, going fast and controlling space appears synergistic. Get invincible within a few meters and then put hunger less than a few meters away from his opponents.
Worth noting that Refinement of War and Undending Hunger looks like it's vastly, absurdly more powerful than any other available combo. Costs, though.
[X] The Imprisoner True
Righto, going fast and controlling space appears synergistic. Get invincible within a few meters and then put hunger less than a few meters away from his opponents.
Worth noting that Refinement of War and Undending Hunger looks like it's vastly, absurdly more powerful than any other available combo. Costs, though.
Tyrant_Rayne
Probably Not Evil… Maybe
- Location
- Canada
Huh… wtf?!?
What is this?! Seriously what is this?! Where's the balance, where's the moderation? This is broken! It's all completely broken!