A Simple Transaction I

[Sara]

Yes, "having power = bad". I've already covered it in both gravity example and pointing out that this universe is already as it is due to powers that are(i.e. fucking Hidden Masters who were never reviled because they are vast universal concept, but because they are cunts). This entire line of discussion is just pointless fucking navel gazing that ignores reality of situation - it is either Hunger happy awesome time, universe remaining in current status quo before getting nuked or everyone dies, the end. It is just clutching at pearls about "but what if we do a bad thing" when the bad thing is already fucking going on.

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I mean, crucially, having the power to throw a fireball or whatever isn't what's bad, it the fact that a huge amount of Hunger's power involves social memetic stuff and a passive warping of everything in the world towards his own ends via Rank, which we kind of speck into pretty heavily. Sufficient Rank as far as I can tell is not particularly different then Arthur's potential Golden Chains power, with all the questions about agency and free will that entails.

Too actually be constructive here and bring up arguments I think could actually ameroliate those concerns, I think Pittauro made a extremely good point about the fate and destiny seemingly being preexisting structures here. Moreover, the Surgeon himself proves the threat of a Rank singularity is already possible without progression. Hunger specifically attaining that sort of power might actually make people more able to express autonomy against such external forces then otherwise would because of his preexisting desires for individual freedom and consensus based decision making for things that affect groups of people.

One living in real situation with real consequences. Despite what you people want to claim, Hunger is not omnipotent and his ability to convince people into stuff is not unlimited. We are on hard clock as Dien is exterminating countless innocents because of a dumbass, so we don't exactly have time to sit down and talk. We can't acquiescent to his demands, he doesn't seem keen on listening so the only way is to Cut Through.

And what is there to talk, really? That we should cripple ourselves to Shogun can indulge his rule boner? At this very moment there are entire multiverses of people suffering under yoke of this or that force; crippling ourselves means not being able to help them, which is just unacceptable. Despite what our philosophers want to think, Hunger is a force of good and just like him there are forces inherently malicious to humanity out there. Going "b-but who will watch the watcher" is irrelevant in the face of such suffering.

You can't reason Aobaru out of hole he got Apo's into. At this point it is not even Aobaru, but trying to convince Shogun that he should go against his very nature. Only way I can think of is to make him our lieutenant as we conquer countless realities, but that still doesn't address the fundamental difference between us.

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Rihaku did straight up tell us convincing him is a viable strategy and beating him without humilation is enough to get him to join our side. Not proccing Apocryphal onslaught is a pretty realistic goal to have here, and I think your actually making decent arguments to help convince him now that your engaging with what people are saying instead of memeing. For instance -

Yes and no. Apocrypha just pushes thing along, but these were already there. It didn't create Procyon ex nihilo, it was already searching for Letrizia so Apo just pointed it at us. Republic was already looking at Shards and Association was already doing dangerous Astral experiments. Given everything long standing survival of humanity is very much in doubt. There are too many sleeping terrors on this galaxy.

Likewise, Apo targeting us is a good thing. We are capable of fighting and defusing its procs better than many others, which is entire point of being a Cursebearer, taking on the brunt of curses to protect humanity. It sucks locally to be next to cosmic lightning rod, sure, but they will also benefit from our rule in the long run so it works out. And this bears reinforcing - imagine humanity far beyond ours, one that can perceive world deeper than we can, that can feel harder and that can love stronger. The world Hunger has potential to bring is not merely a paradise, but a realm which allows humanity to be vastly more than we are right now. Especially since soon enough we can do a Nameless and undo all damage done by Apo so far anyway.

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I actually think this is a really great point to make that I think their'd be value for Hunger to point out IC, and I'll add on to it. Even aside from the shards, look at the Shadowmonster from our first RoE trip which would have threatened the Human Sphere if allowed to possess Aeira that was so far beyond us that our only hope was a nonviolent solution if we didnt scare it was Haeliel's sigil. Even setting aside that the universe here was a powderkeg, their are plenty of things from outside that threaten it from without, and Hunger ruling for a time could do a immense amount to set up protections for it from other outside forces, especially if we can get any defenses to scale as our power does while we continue on to our future geass tasks.

 

[qwolfs]

This does not seem like a particularly good faith reading of these arguments. Hunger is not stronger then other people in the sense that he bench presses a bunch more then anyone else in the world or that he could fight 5 normal guys at once and win.

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The main reason it is a bad faith reading of his argument is because it isn't Aobaru's reason at all. This is Ceathlyn's reason.

Caethlyn argues that because Hunger's Rank and Ruin warp reality in his favor and cannot be resisted by the vast majority of the Realms inhabitants he has effectively removed free will from the people. Therefore he must be removed to return free will.

The argument that resonates with Aobaru is entirely different.

Aobaru grunted, and clutched at his eye. Tears of flame dribbled from his fingers. This- All this, if he'd stayed in the Voyaging Realm, if he'd gone his own way- should have been his?

There were other ways, he knew instinctively, with the curious affinity his Element had always exhibited for him. He could turn it aside. Dismiss it. Diminish, and become merely Chen Aobaru, the chosen one no more.

Or keep it contained forever, if he so wished, and some how find a way to endure.

In his heart of hearts that wasn't what he wanted.

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Aobaru wants to be powerful and relevant. Even if that means crippling a mentor who has only ever been kind to him and risking the lives of many, many other people.

He explicitly dismisses the Shoguns argument for freedom of others as seen here:

Without his opposition, Lord Hunger will reign supreme. Unquestionable and invincible.

And was that really so bad? Considering what Dien had done... and Hunger had always treated him well. To simply betray the man who had been mentor and protector to him - felt wrong. No - was wrong. It was an unconscionable act.

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You cannot deny what you are. You cannot deny the disquiet that burns within you. The fundamental in-correctness of your current role. Will you not act?

Fuck his chosen role. Hunger hadn't done anything to deserve betrayal. If Aobaru turned on him over something as shallow as that, wasn't the 'Chosen' one just a puppet dancing on another set of strings?

He clenched his teeth. All he had to do was, nothing. Let Hunger win and things would work out. To raise his own sword against the King of the Elixir Sovereignty was utterly ridiculous, and literal treason besides. And even if he did, there was no chance he would actually win.

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That, would be entirely within our merged capabilities, once I have unlocked your true strength.

His true strength... was capable of rivaling Hunger? Hunger, as he was now, with the Realm of Evening overlaid upon reality around him? But even so, if Aobaru wanted a realm of his own, surely he just had to ask. Hunger was not much into ruling directly anyway.

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Freedom, rather than a mere facade thereof, will never arise merely from entreating that man. The nature of his Curses are such that he will never regard another authority as legitimate, save for that of his patron.

All while his mere presence summons endless calamities upon his head, upon his realm and entourage. Calamities which he may have the strength to repel, or endure - but for which the survival or well-being of those around him, is nowhere near assured.

Aobaru shook his head. No, he didn't have to do anything. He would acquiesce to Hunger's victory and see Dien defeated once and for all. Whatever came next... he didn't have to think about now.

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And this is where he agrees:

If you acquiesce now, the flame of your spirit - of your purpose - will be banked utterly. You will be extinguished in meaning, if not in essence. Is that the act of he who bears the Vigorflame? The indivisible spark of heroism itself?

Lord Hunger will either bring ruin upon this realm by his presence, or ascend to such unassailable strength that no catastrophe could dislodge him. In the former case, you will not survive. In the latter...

Recall the Realm of Evening in its cosseted, suffocating splendor. The extinction of all conflict includes with it, dissent. The annihilation of one's troubles, is the amputation of destiny. He would turn all the universe into that prison: for what matters that the body and mind are unshackled, if the spirit is trapped inescapably? All that unfolds from such provenance would be as meaningless as artificial challenge, little more than a game.

Allow me to show you the destiny you might have claimed, which the Praehihr unwittingly severed from you. The destiny that we might yet restore. Understand now that the purpose of the Elixir Springs was solely to bring about their counterpart; all other elements mere radiation. From the life-giving waters, which merely imbue power, arises the solitary flame, that embodies it.

For the Vigorflame numbers among our finest weapons, and there is no weapon which I have not mastered.

Behold, the might and the fury of our Chosen One.

Power came upon him then, power in an onrushing flood, ocean of oceans too vast for comprehension; brilliance beyond sight or reckoning, heat like a supernova flare, a torrential advance delirious and inconceivable, all-conquering and - constrained. Dammed behind the wall of his arbitration, not by force but by volition held away.

For it was only his own power, and could not arise if he were not willing.

It pressed against his form, as if bursting from the seams of his skin, radiance spilling forth incontestably, uncontrollably. He could bear it, he could keep it contained, but it was simultaneously too much to bear.

Aobaru grunted, and clutched at his eye. Tears of flame dribbled from his fingers. This- All this, if he'd stayed in the Voyaging Realm, if he'd gone his own way- should have been his?

There were other ways, he knew instinctively, with the curious affinity his Element had always exhibited for him. He could turn it aside. Dismiss it. Diminish, and become merely Chen Aobaru, the chosen one no more.

Or keep it contained forever, if he so wished, and some how find a way to endure.

In his heart of hearts that wasn't what he wanted.

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What matters to him is the power of Vigorflame and the meaning it gives him.

 

[Sara]

The main reason it is a bad faith reading of his argument is because it isn't Aobaru's reason at all. This is Ceathlyn's reason.

Caethlyn argues that because Hunger's Rank and Ruin warp reality in his favor and cannot be resisted by the vast majority of the Realms inhabitants he has effectively removed free will from the people. Therefore he must be removed to return free will.

The argument that resonates with Aobaru is entirely different.


Aobaru wants to be powerful and relevant. Even if that means crippling a mentor who has only ever been kind to him and risking the lives of many, many other people.

He explicitly dismisses the Shoguns argument for freedom of others as seen here:

What matters to him is the power of Vigorflame and the meaning it gives him.

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By this same logic, he explicitly dimisses the Shogun's arguement about the power of Vigorflame and the meaning it gives him here:

Ereadhihr could not oppose Praehihr. Any fluctuations from this precept would bend towards compliance, in time.

This is the moment, Chen Aobaru. The Shogun had spared no niceties. This is the hour of Hunger's accession. It was already inevitable; this will render it irreversible. Dien Bravo is the mightiest remaining Shard. Without his opposition, Lord Hunger will reign supreme. Unquestionable and invincible.

And was that really so bad? Considering what Dien had done... and Hunger had always treated him well. To simply betray the man who had been mentor and protector to him - felt wrong. No - was wrong. It was an unconscionable act.

No matter how much you try to convince yourself otherwise, the truth will always shine through.

You are Chosen, Chen Aobaru. Our Foremost selves seeded that potential within you, and not by chance or mere happenstance. If Hunger prevails today, you will never in any meaningful respect surpass him ever again. Not in your field of strength, nor in any field. He is a Progression-type Cursebearer, and you are merely the hero of a single universe. Less prey than fodder, at best an ornament.

No matter how brightly you shine, you will never eclipse him. Not even for an instant.

You cannot deny what you are. You cannot deny the disquiet that burns within you. The fundamental in-correctness of your current role. Will you not act?

Fuck his chosen role. Hunger hadn't done anything to deserve betrayal. If Aobaru turned on him over something as shallow as that, wasn't the 'Chosen' one just a puppet dancing on another set of strings?

He clenched his teeth. All he had to do was, nothing. Let Hunger win and things would work out. To raise his own sword against the King of the Elixir Sovereignty was utterly ridiculous, and literal treason besides. And even if he did, there was no chance he would actually win.

That is why you will join with me. I shall be your sword and armor, and yourself the animating flame. Nor do we seek the Praehihr's undoing. Merely, independence. Independence from the incidental tyranny of his overwhelming might. We shall see to it that Dien is defeated, and the Praehihr weakened only to the point that we might reasonably establish a realm of our own. That, would be entirely within our merged capabilities, once I have unlocked your true strength.

His true strength... was capable of rivaling Hunger? Hunger, as he was now, with the Realm of Evening overlaid upon reality around him? But even so, if Aobaru wanted a realm of his own, surely he just had to ask. Hunger was not much into ruling directly anyway.

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And this is where he agrees:

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The part your quoting outright includes

Lord Hunger will either bring ruin upon this realm by his presence, or ascend to such unassailable strength that no catastrophe could dislodge him. In the former case, you will not survive. In the latter...

Recall the Realm of Evening in its cosseted, suffocating splendor. The extinction of all conflict includes with it, dissent. The annihilation of one's troubles, is the amputation of destiny. He would turn all the universe into that prison: for what matters that the body and mind are unshackled, if the spirit is trapped inescapably? All that unfolds from such provenance would be as meaningless as artificial challenge, little more than a game.

Click to shrink...

As the main thrust of the Shoguns arguement, and then goes on to tell Hunger the reason he's fighting him is because he thinks his strength interacting with his curses in unsustainable when Hunger asked. I think this is all pretty explicit.

 

[qwolfs]

By this same logic, he explicitly dimisses the Shogun's arguement about the power of Vigorflame and the meaning it gives him here:

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Except he doesn't. He dismisses the argument until the Shogun tells him he could be as strong as Hunger. Once he believes he has a chance at being relevant and powerful, when he feels the power that is his "birthright" he agrees.

"Dismiss it. Diminish, and become merely Chen Aobaru, the chosen one no more.

Or keep it contained forever, if he so wished, and some how find a way to endure.

In his heart of hearts that wasn't what he wanted."

This is his argument, the thing that makes him change his mind in his own words and internal monologue.

 

[Wolfy]

Something something tasting something something fruit

 

[Birdsie]

This is great! Everything I wanted!

[X] A House Divided

Anyway, I won't be making arguments (for now,) because I spoke to Lealope on Discord, and she's got one that pretty much summarizes everything I'd like to say.

 

[JOEbob]

If Hunger can talk while fighting Dien:
[X] Full Speed Ahead
otherwise...
[X] A House Divided

 

[Pittauro]

To be fair, if the Mewtwo doesn't know Me First, this is a favored matchup- For the Rattata!
(From what I can see, that's the only priority move mewtwo can learn which has attack capabilities, at least up to Gen 7.)
EDIT: wait, Me First isn't even a priority move! Mewtwo just loses!
EDIT2: on further analysis, a Mewtwo specifically spec'd to handle a rattata can win reliably, by way of a held Sitrus berry.

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I was more thinking an anime/manga Mewtwo Vs rattata, not the games

 

[TooSlow]

[X] Full Speed Ahead

 

[PurposefulZephyr]

[X] Full Speed Ahead

Kill bad guy, let other bad guy level up so we can kill him and then recruit him.
That's why we spent those 28 Arete and 2 visits from Haliel, right??

 

[Lealope]

It's nearly at the point where his Vigorflame can strengthen or incinerate arbitrary concepts in anyplace touched by heat or light...

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Wow, this is a very powerful and useful ability, in the same ballpark as Emperor Red's Essence manipulation except it operates on concepts directly. Imagine being able to do stuff like burn out Sickness or strengthen Wonder on a universal scale. Not only is this strong buffing/debuffing on a personal level, but the strategic implications are also enormous.

 

[Rihaku]

Then there was that Dien Interlude by Vali (?) where the protagonist realized that he couldn't make choices anymore, and the thread was mostly horrified by it. The reality-warping powers of Rank seem just as effective in constraining muggles as Dien's mind control.

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The degree to which Rank counteracts agency can be modulated by the objectives of the being in question! Perhaps not perfectly, but to a large degree. If Hunger is indifferent to most actions except those that would meaningfully threaten him, for example, as opposed to someone who actively wants to dominate people's lives.

I was more thinking an anime/manga Mewtwo Vs rattata, not the games

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Indeed, even in the games the average Rattata is ~level 5 while Mewtwo is level 70, and neither starts with any special items! In Pokemon Red/Blue I'm pretty sure a level 100 Mewtwo would crush an equally-level Rattata, so your statement is correct in almost any context one would reasonably think of the matchup!

 

[Sara]

Except he doesn't. He dismisses the argument until the Shogun tells him he could be as strong as Hunger. Once he believes he has a chance at being relevant and powerful, when he feels the power that is his "birthright" he agrees.

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That is why you will join with me. I shall be your sword and armor, and yourself the animating flame. Nor do we seek the Praehihr's undoing. Merely, independence. Independence from the incidental tyranny of his overwhelming might. We shall see to it that Dien is defeated, and the Praehihr weakened only to the point that we might reasonably establish a realm of our own. That, would be entirely within our merged capabilities, once I have unlocked your true strength.

His true strength... was capable of rivaling Hunger? Hunger, as he was now, with the Realm of Evening overlaid upon reality around him? But even so, if Aobaru wanted a realm of his own, surely he just had to ask. Hunger was not much into ruling directly anyway.

Click to shrink...

The Shogun tells him that his power rivals Hunger and then Aoboru dismisses out of hand. Then The Shogun points out the apocryphal stuff and Aoboru refuses again and his dismissal is...that he doesn't think about what horrible stuff will come after, clearly emotionally affected by him. Then we get the stuff I qouted to you earlier which actually convinces him.

"Dismiss it. Diminish, and become merely Chen Aobaru, the chosen one no more.

Or keep it contained forever, if he so wished, and some how find a way to endure.

In his heart of hearts that wasn't what he wanted."

This is his argument, the thing that makes him change his mind in his own words and internal monologue.

Click to shrink...

That's literally just him talking about how he didn't want to reject the power Shogun is offering which, yes, that is completely consistent with the characterization that i'm talking about because without said power, he can't actually do anything about the sort of problems being talked about.

You're arguement is that we need to interpret these lines in the most unfavorable possible light even though their consistent with a character that chose to embrace for literally any reason, dismissing the entirety of the multigraph final words Shogun gave to Aoboru, and the literal explanation for his actions that he gave Hunger who explicitly has powers dedicated to making him being nigh impossible to deceive and with wisdom as one of his highest if not highest mental stat was just a throwaway line.

Were also apparently supposed to believe that Rihaku said we were able to plausibly talk him down, and in fact is the only route that doesn't stick us with a apocryphal onslaught which probably kills hunger, what he meant was that instead of crafting arguements about a theme he's weaved into this and the last few updates heavily, he wants us to posit arguments about how...it's bad to betray your mentor during a time of galactic crisis for personal power. Okay then.

Suffice to say I don't agree with your interpretation of the character here and I'm willing to stick with the one that has a modicum of depth to it based off all the textual evidence it has and the fact that generally Rihaku's character are usually more complex then that.

 

[qwolfs]

Welcome, Cursebearer.

Assets:
Progression
Three Wishes
Least Wish
Lesser Wish
True Wish (Defensive)
[ ] Ceathlynn "Catherine" of Amarlt
[ ] Retinue
Relinquishment
Accursed Favor (??)


Liabilities
The Curse of Hubris
[ ] Affliction of Slumber
[ ] Doom of the Tyrant
The Doom of Lunacy
The Doom of the Martyr
The Brand of the Chaste
The Mutilating Affliction
[ ] Affliction of Leprosy


I would call this build 7 Days.

It's the build I'd aim for if I was convinced, even after meeting the Accursed and being afflicted by his Wretched-ness, that he genuinely was the best chance at "a kinder world than this".

There's two effective synergies to maximally exploit here.

1. A Lesser Wish should be able to acquire you at least one instance of Relinquishment.

2. Mental alterations are negligible when you never think or act.

The plan:
1. Wish for Relinquishment.
2. Meet Ceathlyn.
3. Induct her into your Retinue, acquire and reciprocate an oath of loyalty.
4. Have her knock you unconcious until you are needed or she had mitigated your curses sufficiently that thinking and acting under them is no longer a danger. Until then Relinquishment time is to be stock piled for emergency use.

You pretty much kill yourself to empower someone else with progression and the minor curse of "keep this one guy alive or lose progression".

You might have a week every few decades to administer your Retinue slots and enjoy the world your retinue makes.


I think, if the Accursed ever offered a transaction to some one willing to make a build like this he would give them the option if a bunch more mental curses and maybe a Three Wishes specific lesser remittance that let's them front load the Relinquishment wish. Since the main danger to this build is that Hubris convinces you not to make the wish.

Even compared to Seram the retinue companions of this build would be getting their slice of progression pretty cheap. Somewhere between a single major and lesser curse I think.


Build Variant:
It might be worth picking up Quantified World, or ideally a socially focused version of that, to help make sure the person you pick for your retinue can be trusted to do their part. If you do it might be worth getting rid of Ceathlyn and spending your seven days finding someone compatible from earth.


Canon Implications:
I wouldn't be surprised if the Accursed is restricted from giving curses to people who would be willing to take on a build like this, because there should be a whole bunch of people who would.
Alternatively, there light be massive Matrix-esque realms full of curse batteries that subsidize transactions for Cursebearer's like Hunger and Seram.

 

[qwolfs]

Were also apparently supposed to believe that Rihaku said we were able to plausibly talk him down, and in fact is the only route that doesn't stick us with a apocryphal onslaught which probably kills hunger, what he meant was that instead of crafting arguements about a theme he's weaved into this and the last few updates heavily, he wants us to posit arguments about how...it's bad to betray your mentor during a time of galactic crisis for personal power. Okay then.

Suffice to say I don't agree with your interpretation of the character here and I'm willing to stick with the one that has a modicum of depth to it based off all the textual evidence it has and the fact that generally Rihaku's character are usually more complex then that.

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The Theme is there, you just don't want to see it.

Aobaru is the Chosen Hero... Except he gets overshadowed at every turn.

He is the Hero meant to save the Realm, that is basically a theme park.

He is powerful beyond conventional measure, buts it's really just an ISH buff for Hunger.

He is asserting his independence, betraying his mentor for power and relevance, assuming the Mantle that should have been his! But it's an Apocryphal proc we chose because we want to use him as heat sink for Apocryphal procs ourselves.

His entire character arc is him being overshadowed by Hunger and trying to come to terms with that.

This betrayal is a manifestation of his themes, the Chosen Hero arising in Glory at last! But he's only barely relevant because Hunger has other things to deal with first.

Edit: I thought someone had already posted, sorry for the double post

 

[Rihaku]

The plan:
1. Wish for Relinquishment.
2. Meet Ceathlyn.
3. Induct her into your Retinue, acquire and reciprocate an oath of loyalty.
4. Have her knock you unconcious until you are needed or she had mitigated your curses sufficiently that thinking and acting under them is no longer a danger. Until then Relinquishment time is to be stock piled for emergency use.

Click to shrink...

But now that you have the Curse of Hubris, why bother using Relinquishment? Catherine's decent and all but there's no way she's going to do as good a job as you, and you don't agree with her on all points so to really maximize the chances of the Accursed's victory, you're just going to have do the job yourself. It wouldn't be the case for an ordinary mortal or even Progression-type but it would be a grievous error to deny all creation the benefits of you acting to save it, even if inconvenienced by some vexing restrictions.

 

[qwolfs]

But now that you have the Curse of Hubris, why bother using Relinquishment? Catherine's decent and all but there's no way she's going to do as good a job as you, and you don't agree with her on all points so to really maximize the chances of the Accursed's victory, you're just going to have do the job yourself. It wouldn't be the case for an ordinary mortal or even Progression-type but it would be a grievous error to deny all creation the benefits of you acting to save it, even if inconvenienced by some vexing restrictions.

Click to shrink...

It's a major danger, as mentioned here.

I think, if the Accursed ever offered a transaction to some one willing to make a build like this he would give them the option if a bunch more mental curses and maybe a Three Wishes specific lesser remittance that let's them front load the Relinquishment wish. Since the main danger to this build is that Hubris convinces you not to make the wish.

Click to shrink...

If it were impossible to make a contingent wish or something of similar effect, then it might be possible to do it "because I am came up with the plan and therefore it is superior to what any one else could come up with".

 

[Birdsie]

Anyway, Octarine Shrike, as his omake award on part of the marker exchange I did, requested that I write... Six Trillion Diagrams! I'm joking, of course, that's impossible to achieve within my unfortunately limited human lifespan; I'd do it if I could.

Here's the mere beginning of the contract that binds.

Death Sign

[ ] Alumar's Burrowing Scarab (Battle) - Lord Alumar of the Diagram, often called the Great Reckoner of Death, was named so for his terrific and high aptitude for turning any Diagram, even the most innocuous one, towards the purposes of horror, conquest and warfare. Such was his heartlessness that even the other magi of the Diagram feared him and spoke of him only in hushed whispers.

This innocuous Battle Diagram of Death remains one of his greatest creations, once used to infiltrate and sabotage the holds of the Dwarven mountain-keepers to the north.

The caster extracts one of the carpal bones from his dominant hand, replacing it with a wraithlike substitute for the duration. The living bone promptly grows a pair of membranous flesh-wings and mutates into the form of a keratinous scarab, which the caster may control instinctively with subtle hand motions. Although nearly useless in combat, the scarab's use in spying is immense, as it has a form of pseudo-kinetic touchsight perception extending up to a kilometer and piercing most obstructions, immensely useful in the tunnels of the dwarves. Its appendages are excellent for burrowing and digging tunnels, allowing it to pierce the dwarven mountains and walls effortlessly.

Its true use, however, is different. If the scarab is directed to burrow into the back of the cervical spine of any creature with compatible anatomy, it floods the subject's nervous system with necrotic energies, immediately killing them (if they weren't already a corpse,) and assuming direct control of the body in question. The caster may then puppeteer the body as he desires, gaining full control over any abilities it had in life, as well as a small measure of the subject's basic knowledge, like where it used to live or work, letting it infiltrate the society in question.

A scarab's lifetime is unfortunately limited to one lunar month, after which it dissolves into powdered bone residue.

-[ ] Go Beyond [1 Beyond Point] - The caster instantly regenerates the carpal bones he lost, replacing them with new bone. He also gains the ability to animate up to ten scarabs in one casting, and bestowing each of them with a sliver of his ego and intellect, allowing them to operate autonomously and to cooperate.

The scarabs' burrowing appendages are improved considerably, making them viable as a combat measure - furthermore, access to the spine is no longer necessary. If a scarab burrows into a subject's hand, it gains control over that appendage, making it feasible for a swarm of scarabs to take over even a conscious subject attempting self-defense.

-[ ] Go Further Beyond [3 Beyond Points] - Rather than withering into nothingness at the apex of their life, a scarab with permission to do so from the caster floods the system of its subject with a number of self-reproducing bacteria, berserker toxins, and other necrotic energies, allowing it to operate near-autonomously in a destructive rage. The subject that does so has no particular need for blood or its organs, requiring only that the nervous system remain unbroken with connection to the brain. In summary, it becomes a zombie and becomes capable of spreading this infection to others.

[ ] Whip of Siphoning (Sigil) - The caster forms a long sinuous whip of purple-violet streaks in their palm, animated to strike at the nearest living subject when swung. On impact, the whip connects ethereally to their heart and saps their life force, strength, and other energies, feeding them slowly to the caster.

The impact of the whip bruises not only the flesh but also the spirit, rendering the subject's magics and skills significantly harder to call upon or leverage while connected and granting the caster a steady and increasing advantage in combat. The whip may not be severed in any manner, barring the caster's death, or either the victim or caster escaping the sixty-pace range of the whip's power.

[ ] Kurdu's Necromancy (Battle) - This Diagram has several requirements: it must be cast outdoors, at night, and some item or possession must be provided as a sacrifice. Said item will act as the catalyst for the spell.

Upon being cast successfully, the spell conjures up a spectral holographic wraith of a dead person. It's possible to reach even into Ages long past with this Diagram, conjuring members of the High Magus Conclave or the dead species of the world to converse with. The item serving as the catalyst must have at least a tenuous connection to the subject being conjured, otherwise, the spell fails. Said item is also consumed on casting.

The wraith has no obligation to listen to the caster, nor can it access any of the abilities it had in life. It's more like a construct shaped with the subject's personality, memories, and desires, but a conversation may be useful for other reasons - historical research, or even study. If your present Age lacks any masters of the Diagram, why not simply reach back into the previous one, and get a teacher from there?

As soon as the first rays of sunlight shine on the wraith, it dissipates from the mortal plane.

-[ ] Go Beyond [1 Beyond Point] - Rather than being consumed on casting, the catalyst may be preserved if the caster feeds it a ritual sacrifice of a single living creature. Said creature mustn't necessarily be sentient, although smaller and lesser beings - such as frogs or even insects - require an exponentially greater quantity of sacrifices. This allows the catalyst to be freely reused for follow-up conversations. Whether the wraith the caster summoned remembers or forgets their past conversations is entirely up to the caster's will.

[ ] Urn of the Undead Berserker (Battle) - Following a brief funerary ritual, the caster imbues a single urn with a dead man's ashes with his necromantic magics, transforming it into a spirit grenade. Upon being thrown, the urn breaks and splashes the ashes of the deceased in a wide area. His angry wraith is unleashed, wielding a total sum of 80% of the abilities it possessed in life and moving to strike and kill anything in the range of its ashes. The wraith may not leave outside the area its ashes have covered; however, if its ashes have fallen upon a person, it may follow them tirelessly to the ends of the earth, until said person cleans themselves.

The wraith also wields any weapons or armor it had in life, and possesses generally undiminished intelligence, wisdom, and cognition, but only for the purposes of combat and defending its 'resting place.'

Once the attack is completed to the caster's satisfaction, he may repair the urn and move the ashes within telekinetically with a mere sweep of the hand, re-sealing the wraith for future use. However, in order to use it again, the caster must necessarily re-cast this Diagram.

-[ ] Go Further Beyond [3 Beyond Points] - The wraith created with the Urn of the Undead Berserker has partial control over its action, and comprehends the caster and his allies' presence as non-anomalous and non-sacrilegious, permitting them to walk in the field of its ashes. The wraith might even be convinced to help them with minor, trivial tasks, such as opening a door it knows the access password to, breaking through a wall, solving a riddle, or similar.

[ ] Vane-Lord's Coffin (Grand) - A lengthy ritual process requires the caster to chop down wood from his birthplace and personally make a coffin from it. The caster must then fill it with a bag of soil from his homeland, enchant it in a prolonged Diagram ritual that lasts until exhaustion, and then fall asleep within its cold embrace in the moment of noon. The Vane-Lord's Coffin will ensure the slumber is prompt and fast, and so deep the caster's heart stops beating for the duration.

When the caster awakens, he finds himself magically rejuvenated. All bodily wounds, up to and including amputation or partial removal of the brain; as well as all hostile effects, up to and including partial mind control or unnatural emotional influence, are cleared. The caster immediately becomes swifter, more fleet of feet, and stronger of the body; enough that he could out-fight entire cadres and squadrons of Ego Barrier Cultivators, or match a low Organ Refiner. He no longer feels pain and isn't especially afraid of even non-trivial injuries like loss of limb, knowing the coffin shall restore him.

He also gains a single additional, non-spell ability which he chooses upon awakening each night (one ability per night, but caster may cycle between them every time he awakens,) from the following: shape-shifting into an animal, hypnosis of lesser beings via eye contact, mist-form, even further physical enhancements with particular focus on speed, remote hemokinesis, or the ability to become invisible at will.

The caster's skin becomes pallid and cold like the flesh of someone recently dead, and his canines sprout out in response. So long as he continues to sleep in the coffin every night and occasionally drinks the blood of a being that isn't trivially beneath him, he will continue to experience all of the boons described, and he becomes necrobiologically immortal, capable of living for thousands of years. However, all of his power is greatly suppressed through exposure to cruel sunlight, making him feel weak, drained, and dizzy on contact with even the smallest of rays.

-[ ] Go Beyond [1 Beyond Point] - The caster instead chooses two additional powers every night, instead of one, and his combat power is sufficient to combat a peak Organ Refiner and potentially out-fight them.

-[ ] Go Further Beyond [3 Beyond Points] - The caster gains access to psychic vampirism, allowing him to subsist off of mental emanations, rather than physical blood. He can drain any vulnerable target with a single touch, including Cultivators of the low Soul Chrysalis stage. His combat power is further emboldened, and he can now freely cycle between a toolset of three abilities with a moment of meditative focus, rather than subsequent awakenings from his coffin.

-[ ] Go Even Further Beyond [10 Beyond Points] - The magus becomes a True Incarnated Vampire, in name, body, essence, and soul.

He accesses every one of his vampiric sub-powers simultaneously, and he can embrace new vampires from fresh corpses. This permanently kills their ability to use any magic, including the Diagram, other than the innate powers of vampirism. All vampire thralls created as such are subordinate to the caster, following his merest whim to the furthermost extent of their capability, living only to please him.

His combat power doubles from what it used to be at the Go Further Beyond stage of this Diagram, allowing him to fight even Cultivators of the peak Soul Chrysalis level and win through might or trickery.

Flesh Sign

[ ] Alvan's Heartache (Sigil) - The caster points his finger at a target, and speaks a dismissive phrase. At once, the target suffers an incurable and unavoidable heart attack, clutching their chest in fear and pain, and dropping seconds after, dead. The simplicity of this Sigil is what makes it terrifying.

Cultivators of the Organ Refining Stage can resist. Everyone above that is immune.

-[ ] Go Even Further Beyond [10 Beyond Points] - "Such is the nature of my heartache, that it is not the physical heart that quakes, but the one that dwells in the spirit."

The caster spends of himself, pouring their own life energy to improve the condition of the spell immeasurably; with better principles to aim, the spell becomes exponentially more powerful. Resistance is futile; all Cultivators up to the Grand Solipsism Stage lose their immunity but retain various degrees of resistance depending on their progress in the Organ Refining stage. There is no assurance anyone will drop dead instantly, but the burning heartache is sure to be distracting and painful at the very least. It's hard to strike even further above that, but not impossible. With this level of attainment, even the hearts of Titans can be shaken in their chest...

[ ] Aramela's Flowery Garden (Sigil) - The caster daubs themselves in organic perfume, their pores acting as factories of a potent aphrodisiac. A single breath is enough to send a man's brain wheeling in shock at the beauty in front of them.

The effects on human subjects can vary, but most often produce feelings of awe, respect, love, and blind admiration towards the caster; with the merest smile directed towards them, the caster becomes a subject of obsession, gaining an army of obedient followers who'd kneel to her slightest desire and help her achieve it. The reality of the victims is slightly altered, making everyone who opposes the caster appear as a terrible monster or tyrant, allowing them to kill even their best friends in retribution for perceived slights or insults against their new master.

Use a gas mask or piss-stained cloth to resist.

[ ] Spy's Transformative Disguise (Sigil) - A simplistic Diagram, well-suited for an apprentice or peasant sent to infiltrate another society. This spell induces a minor, fully biological change of some kind in the target, often cosmetic in nature: a subtle alteration to skin color, longer and harder fingernails, trimmer hair, gaunt cheeks, and so on. With repeated castings, this process basically supplements or entirely replaces cosmetic surgery of any kind. A caster of true skill and mastery can even produce alterations in gender and hormones in order to double their repertoire of possible disguises and roles.

[ ] Jagverr's Combat Medicine (Battle) - The caster forms a nexus-flower in the center of a battlefield, soldier formation, or triage center - or another location of his choice. The flower accumulates nutriment from the soil, and roughly twenty seconds later, explodes into a cloud of medicinal green mist. The mist seeps into the air and spreads itself across a wide area, automatically seeking out the caster's allies. Breathed in by living organisms, it vastly improves their dumb, blunt endurance and survivability against attacks or injuries, allowing them to completely shrug off the equivalent of a car crash or a boulder collapsing on top of them.

It also provides them with an immediate albeit limited regenerative healing factor, allowing for the restoration of fingers, but not limbs; the healing of ruined eyeballs but not completely missing organs. This mist often works its magic within hours of inhalation, and sometimes even less than that, although its main purpose is to prolong the soldier's life until such a time that proper medical attention can be administered. It is not a proper substitute for a visit to the apothecary!

-[ ] Go Beyond [1 Beyond Point] - The true internal powers of the nexus-flower are unleashed. The restorative properties of the mist are enhanced vastly. It can now restore even missing limbs and internal organs that had been turned into mush and heal men back to life from the brink of death within minutes. It can restore function and memories to a brain that had been devoid of oxygen for half an hour and cure the subject in question of their genetic afflictions. Its effects persist for days, rather than hours.

-[ ] Go Further Beyond [3 Beyond Point] - The nexus-flower can now be safely consumed, focusing all of this Battle Diagram's terrifying defensive and restorative properties upon a single person. Their skin can now ablate and withstand the main gun of a naval battleship. The healing factor provided is many orders of magnitude greater; in an eyeblink, the consumer of the flower regenerates their shattered cranium and pulped cerebellum, as if nothing happened. With some luck, the subject might survive a nuclear explosion of a bomb on the level of the one that went off in Hiroshima or survive the repeated blows of a Cultivator in the low Dao Cleaving Stage.

[ ] Fantastic Motion of Flesh (Battle) - The caster enchants his own body to physically bend out of the way of attacks in order to avoid them. If an arrow moves to pierce his eye, his entire neck and spine dislocate and sag off to the side in a decisecond. His flesh and bones gain a rubbery and elastic quality as a result, which the caster may consciously control as a further boon, in order to strike at far greater ranges or improve his mobility in various ways. It's also a power useful for various operations that rely on undetected infiltration; the caster may simply pour himself into a vase as a liquid and wait to be carried through into the fortress of the target, virtually undetected.

The caster suffers no injury due to the use of this Battle Diagram - there wouldn't be much of a point to it, if he did.

[ ] Eastern Overgrowth's Calling (Battle) - Upon casting, the battlefield becomes covered in a bunch of thickets, shrub growths, grasping vines, thorny brambles, and rainforest trees that catch opponents, separate them, and attempt to systematically trap them within their vastness. At the caster's command, this overgrowth will either imprison or injure the enemies within, attempting to pulverize them with sheer pulling pressure, or make them bleed out by scratching them with thorny branches.

All of the plants in question are supernaturally tough and difficult to break out of, as they attempt to restrict the range of motion of anyone stuck within, whilst granting the caster and his allies free passage through their mighty overgrown tunnels, bending out of the way for them like a royal carpet.

[ ] Davyrr's Horned Countenance (Grand) - The caster mutates his own body. In addition to becoming much lighter and faster thanks to a multitude of muscular alterations, allowing him to outrace a speeding horse, he also sprouts a pair of horns that act as psychic nodes. He can utilize these horns for the transmission of telepathic data to any other minds within the networking range of two miles, not limited to physical brains, sending images, sensations, emotions, or opening channels for communication with those minds. Likewise, he gains the ability to read the surface thoughts of those nearby and plumb their minds for secret knowledge or information.

Cultivators in the Ego Barrier Stage are resistant to the caster's mental control, and those of the Dao Cleaving Stage are fully immune.

Space Sign

[ ] Fibbar's Handy Conjuration (Sigil) - A relatively simple Diagram, once utilized by the apprentices and masters of the forges in order to shorten the amount of time otherwise spent on looking for ingredients or items.

Upon being cast, this spell translocates the desired object into the caster's hands. The object must be within a kilometer, must be small enough to be handheld comfortably, and the caster must be at least vaguely aware that it exists within range - if any of these conditions are unfulfilled, the spell fails automatically. It can be useful for a plethora of actions, ranging from study and crafting to thievery and sleight of hand. It's particularly useful if there are other allies within range who also know this spell, allowing the casters to form an assembly line, or share the use of one item over moderate ranges.

[ ] Vistar's Bending (Sigil) - A Sigil designed for quick and reflexive casting, it requires only the pronouncement of a single word and a gesture of the hand to be cast. The spell bends the space between the caster himself as well as a given target, allowing a thrown projectile or spell to extend its rage almost twice over, as well as improving its velocity and impact speed significantly, which affects damage. It can also be used defensively, bending space in such a manner as to slow down the approach of hostile projectiles or dashing soldiers.

[ ] Kaev's Portal Formation (Sigil) - The caster opens an oblong double-linked portal on any surface within his line of sight; blue on one side, and orange on the other. The portals show whatever's on the other side and allow free, unobstructed physical passage. These portals can be used in order to fire on enemies from unexpected angles, gain access to an otherwise inaccessible place, or transport objects and allies.

Originally invented by Diagram Magus, Kaev Jaersavn of the Aperture Conclave, he used this Diagram as the basis of a series of tests and experiments meant to achieve a more complete understanding of the Diagram, as well as human behaviors in relation to it.

-[ ] Go Beyond [1 Beyond Point] - "I don't want your damn thriesis plants, what am I supposed to do with these?"

The portals created by Kaev's Portal Formation can now be opened remotely within the range of ten kilometers, but require a previously-treated surface covered in moonrock or a similar material. With the right shape and assembly, these portals can be used to form a deadly network for the purposes of mobility, offense, and defense.

[ ] Alumar's Piercing Door (Battle) - This spell, cast upon a wall, creates a door that leads to the room on the other side. It can be used to reach the outdoors or vice versa; to open a door that leads indoors from a garden. If the wall is thick, it creates a spatial tunnel to whatever's on the other side. Cast upon the earth, it creates a trapdoor leading to a cave system underneath, and cast repeatedly in such a manner it can be used to reach the other side of the globe. Its main purpose as it was devised, however, is for both infiltration and the creation of sockets through which more deadly spells can be tossed - like poison gas or explosives - without compromising the enemy's fortress itself.

-[ ] Go Further Beyond [3 Beyond Points] - The piercing door can now be cast on anything the caster is able to imagine, not merely on walls. Cast upon a living creature's chest, it forms a fleshy opening through which a hand can be squeezed in order to take out their heart without the physical interdiction of flesh. Cast upon a chunk of space, it creates a doorway to another place far away from the origin point, and cast upon the sky, it opens a door to Lazulite Heaven itself, the domain of the Fates who dwell above. Alas, this spell was tragically unfinished...

[ ] Prolessarch's Adventure Translocator (Grand) - For those who tire of their original realm, the Adventure Translocator is their respite. This spell throws its caster across the multiverse, flinging them in the direction of 'adventure' or any event or unfolding series of events that'd allow the caster to have fun. The spell is precociously talented in detecting adventures that suit the caster's tastes and desires, always bringing them into some distant place where they can breathe anew, in wonder, desire, and genuine thrill. It never brings the caster to another location on the same plan or universe.

Draining upon the spirit, even beyond the boundaries of most other spells. Cast incorrectly or inattentively, it can drain the caster's essence and leave them an empty balloon, and even shatter the basis of their Diagram, requiring them to re-learn the vast amounts of their spellcraft. Or perhaps, this loss is merely a function of the adventure?

Sign of Slacking Off

One of the Signs of the New Age, created by the Nameless Yong Overlord...

[ ] Nameless' Vehicle Cleaner (Sigil) - One of the many ravages of adult life is being forced to clean and care for one's car, chariot, flying limousine, or another vehicle of preference, lest it break down or become unacceptably dirty. Unfortunately, such a task requires the preparation of a multitude of cleaning tools and - gasp - working!

Instead, this spell will instantly clean one's vehicle as if it were given professional attention from a team of skilled menial cleaners paid good wages for overtime. It's far superior to hiring the neighbor's kid who'll be distracted by his own desire to slack off...

[ ] Paperwork Do-er (Battle) - Paperwork is boring. Create a bureaucrat-spirit that'll sit down and do it for you. Quality of work isn't assured. It's also not a proper substitute for someone writing omake... Eh, why is Suizhen staring at me like that?

[ ] Bothersome, Troublesome Go-Away (Grand) - I don't really like being troubled with boring or stupid things. This Grand Diagram connects to fate on universal level and makes sure no one below Grand Solipsism can even find me if their aim is to give me some troublesome news. Er, I mean you - I mean the caster of this Diagram...

-[ ] Go Beyond [1 Beyond Point] - I don't see the point of going beyond on something like this, but sure. If you Go Beyond, then not even a Titan can find you to assign you paperwork. Not even the Empress herself will be able to force you to attend the opening of a new theme park in your name! (How the hell do they name a theme park after someone who's literally Nameless?)

Wordcount: 4.1k

 

[Lealope]

If it were impossible to make a contingent wish or something of similar effect, then it might be possible to do it "because I am came up with the plan and therefore it is superior to what any one else could come up with"

Click to shrink...

But that was a plan you came up with before you truly became a Cursebearer and gained Progression. The old you was okay but he just didn't have all the facts, y'know? The new you has a much better assessment of your own potential and competence! No need for any false modesty here.

 

[qwolfs]

But that was a plan you came up with before you truly became a Cursebearer and gained Progression. That old you was okay but he just didn't have all the facts, y'know? The new you has a much better assessment of your own potential and competence! No need for any false modesty here.

Click to shrink...

I am obviously superior in planning ability to even a version of me with progression. After all, a version of me with progression is an alteration of me and therefore less optimal.

 

[Wolfy]

The way to work around Hubris would be to seal 99% of your power in such a way that you forget about it, and then have it come back whenever you overestimate yourself.

Wow, this is a very powerful and useful ability, in the same ballpark as Emperor Red's Essence manipulation except it operates on concepts directly. Imagine being able to do stuff like burn out Sickness or strengthen Wonder on a universal scale. Not only is this strong buffing/debuffing on a personal level, but the strategic implications are also enormous.

Click to shrink...

Actually import bit is our ability to CtF the Shogunbaru. This would give us access to both Shogun's excessive skill as well as ability to manipulate Vigorflame in conjunction with Archmage.

Another interesting one would be Shogunbaru+Adorie.

 

[qwolfs]

The way to work around Hubris would be to seal 99% of your power in such a way that you forget about it, and then have it come back whenever you overestimate yourself.

Click to shrink...

You can also set up the equivalent of a Trust, but for power.
Hand off all your power to a "company" that just happens to use their assets for your benefit, if it's good enough for Government work then it should be good enough for anyone! (Would likely require at least two stages of mitigation to make viable).

 

[JOEbob]

If you pick up Relinquishment instead of getting Caethlyn as a Lesser Remittance, and pick a Curse which is annoying to be under (I assume one exists somewhere.), then you might be able to set things up so your hubris'd self uses Relinquishment for other reasons immediately (why save the relinquishment, you'll have tier 4 mitigation within a month anyway!) and gives you the necessary time to set things up while having retinue and being sane.

 

[Lealope]

The problem with working around Hubris is that any solution to it is one that has to be imposed on you by some relatively kindly being whose both suitable for the task and massively more powerful than you, which is something pretty tough to find as a Cursebearer, especially when Hubris makes you think you don't need it. Moreover, any serious external mental alteration would just bounce off your Cursebearer protections.

 

[Resonant]

I... Actually don't know what to vote for, so I'm tentatively going to prioritize taking down Dien first.

[X] Full Speed Ahead