A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
- Original
- Location
- Italy
I don't think so, but I think Hunger has To Shatter Heaven on it, so his version of Accretion is not really a fair example.
I guess that TSH already removes conceptual limits anyway? Well, it doesn't matter much I suppose.
The biggest mistake was taking Ruin Prison instead of November Sky, however. Like holy shit that was so fucking bad.
She can get better. Not taking the easy way out was yet another mistake.
The biggest mistake was taking Ruin Prison instead of November Sky, however. Like holy shit that was so fucking bad.
I think it was generally ballparked at somewhere around Noble+, but a fair bit away from Royal. Still, that was awhile ago and I don't really fanatically follow the thread's discussion nowadays.
IMO, OaF III probably should be spent on something that would glue together all this disparate shit Hunger can do in the same sort of synergy Thrice-Great had. Not my preferred pick when we really need to deal with Dien yesterday.
- Location
- Italy
November Sky was probably my favourite pick when compared to Ruin Prison and Perilous Grandeur (mostly because Perilous required Nova's presence to truly shine, as Open Palm and Closed Fist required more party members)
It is a potential pick, pretty much. Obviously enough we are in no position to take potential picks. Then again people are gearing up to grab two at the same time so what do I know.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Open Palm could also have been used on an army. or Armament pilots if we could recruit one from Republic survivors. I honestly expected we'd be doing that. As opposed to the Surgeon reaching the level of nobody in the Republic has any free will like that. Perilous Grandeur was useful from a mobility and laying the groundwork for Hunger with Ordinalist Examine standpoint.
ImperatorV
The Laughing One
- Location
- The Voyaging Realm
We're actually more powerful then Dien at the moment, the problem is applying that power. As such, grabbing potential to try to hard outscale is not an indefensible position. Especially if that potential can manifest in ways that lets us counter Dien's big advantage (distributed forces).
Aoinfinity
Unlimited Blue Works
- Location
- a blue Infinity
[X] Halo Crown
- Location
- Louisiana
I would easily bandwagon around any non halo option, halo crown is our worst choice and it's not even close. If any get a sizeable lead I will swap immediately.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Approx timeframe True Perfecting Blade has had to work on Gisena.
2 Week Timeskip for SIgns Research after the Truth Manifest.
3 Weeks in the Realm of Evening.
3.9 Weeks of Warfighting(A Lunar Month)
3 More weeks in the Realm of Evening
Roughly 12 weeks of passive stat gains to Gisenas Physical Stats/Wits/Appearance
What that means in hard numbers, I have no idea. Moving on to other thoughts.
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Mythology Halo Quadruples Gisena's stats. Including Intelligence.
One of the Halo options is Halo of Singularity. It's the kind of thing things like World Defeating Stance and the Praxis is meant for. It shuts down magic by imposing a hostile set of physics within it's sphere of influence.
Hunger's got insurance against that.
First off, the Praxis. Omniversal Reliability.
Second. All Defeating Stance. Powers Derived from the Forbear's Blade remain operational even in environments with Hostile physics.
Third is OAF III. We get a metaphysical ontology worth of powers we can use even when Gisena's Halo is messing with them.
2 Week Timeskip for SIgns Research after the Truth Manifest.
3 Weeks in the Realm of Evening.
3.9 Weeks of Warfighting(A Lunar Month)
3 More weeks in the Realm of Evening
Roughly 12 weeks of passive stat gains to Gisenas Physical Stats/Wits/Appearance
What that means in hard numbers, I have no idea. Moving on to other thoughts.
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Mythology Halo Quadruples Gisena's stats. Including Intelligence.
One of the Halo options is Halo of Singularity. It's the kind of thing things like World Defeating Stance and the Praxis is meant for. It shuts down magic by imposing a hostile set of physics within it's sphere of influence.
Hunger's got insurance against that.
First off, the Praxis. Omniversal Reliability.
Second. All Defeating Stance. Powers Derived from the Forbear's Blade remain operational even in environments with Hostile physics.
Third is OAF III. We get a metaphysical ontology worth of powers we can use even when Gisena's Halo is messing with them.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Renaissance Halo has changed description.
Original Description from A Solemn Reprieve:
Sacrifice 3 Graces to get 2 Grace slots one can use to replicate any grace you've seen, changable every 2100 hours. That's 87.5 Days, or 3.2 Lunar Months.(Edit: Assuming Gisena Experiences 96 hours a day due to time dilation, Gisena would get a Renaissance Halo switch once every 3.125 weeks. 2100 hours/96 hours = 21.875 days, 21.875 days/7 days = 3.125 weeks.
New setup from this update:
Sacrifice 3 grace slots to get a copy slot one can use to reproduce any seen grace, swappable every 24 hours. What hasn't been brought up here is Time Dilation. Gisena gets 8 hours a day where she benefits from time dilation. That's 80 subjective hours. Assuming Gisena remains awake 16 hours a day, 8 hours of that is time dilated to 80, That's 3 Renaissance Halo Switches per objective day.
Gisena presumably has this
@Rihaku does Renaissance Halo benefit from Auspice Temporal? (Edit: Also, does Halo Of Singularity nullify Gisena's quadruple stats boost? Can Renaissance Halo be used to reproduce a grace sacrificed to create it?)
Original Description from A Solemn Reprieve:
Sacrifice 3 Graces to get 2 Grace slots one can use to replicate any grace you've seen, changable every 2100 hours. That's 87.5 Days, or 3.2 Lunar Months.(Edit: Assuming Gisena Experiences 96 hours a day due to time dilation, Gisena would get a Renaissance Halo switch once every 3.125 weeks. 2100 hours/96 hours = 21.875 days, 21.875 days/7 days = 3.125 weeks.
New setup from this update:
Sacrifice 3 grace slots to get a copy slot one can use to reproduce any seen grace, swappable every 24 hours. What hasn't been brought up here is Time Dilation. Gisena gets 8 hours a day where she benefits from time dilation. That's 80 subjective hours. Assuming Gisena remains awake 16 hours a day, 8 hours of that is time dilated to 80, That's 3 Renaissance Halo Switches per objective day.
Gisena presumably has this
@Rihaku does Renaissance Halo benefit from Auspice Temporal? (Edit: Also, does Halo Of Singularity nullify Gisena's quadruple stats boost? Can Renaissance Halo be used to reproduce a grace sacrificed to create it?)
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Rihaku
The Internet
Renaissance Halo can manifest the Graces that comprise it, yes. Gisena doesn't lose too much raw power for such versatility!
Of course, there may be Halos available that are not the Renaissance or Singularity... perhaps the Industrial or Enlightenment Halos would be more suitable to the current situation!
Regardless of how you guys want to deal with Dien, however, you should consider the other implications of Hunger's decision here, since it is a major Arete and picks spending point! Something like Share the Weight has different character beats than Regalia or Forbearance.
Of course, there may be Halos available that are not the Renaissance or Singularity... perhaps the Industrial or Enlightenment Halos would be more suitable to the current situation!
Regardless of how you guys want to deal with Dien, however, you should consider the other implications of Hunger's decision here, since it is a major Arete and picks spending point! Something like Share the Weight has different character beats than Regalia or Forbearance.
- Location
- US
[X] Share the Weight
The chance is enough for me!
[X] Halo Crown
At the moment none of the Halos present scream at me to take them. Singularity might be really cool, but I think I'd have to know a bit more about it before making that judgement. On the other hand, Renaissance Halo just makes me wonder how often it would be a good idea not to have Grace of the Glaze active. It kind of seems like the benefit of Renaissance Halo would lie in its versatility; if Gisena has seen a Grace that would answer a particular problem, she can have it. But that effect seems like it becomes less and less valuable as Gisena grows more versatile herself. At her current rate of progress, how long would it take Gisena to just independently recreate all the Graces she's seen?
On the other hand, maybe Halos can be upgraded. If Renaissance could one day manifest more Graces, that would be useful.
Also, which Grace is Maiden's Whisper? I don't recall seeing it before.
e:
I hadn't read the updated Halo descriptions. If we could keep Grace of the Glaze out, which it seems we can, Renaissance Halo becomes a lot more appealing to me.
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OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
So now that I'm not double posting, I've got some bits and bobs from Discord that need mentioning here.
First, It turns out the correct setup for Renaissance Halo is 2 graces Gisena has seen, changable every 2100 hours. That's 87.5 Days or 3.2 Lunar Months. I'm going to presume Gisena does get Time Dilation benefits here from Auspice Temporal though, which moves the Renaissance Halo conversion time down to 3.125 weeks. Gisena presumably experiences 96 hours a day. 8 hours dilated to 80, plus 8 normal hours, plus 8 hours of sleep. 2100/96 is 21.875 days. 21.875 days/7 = 3.125 weeks. This can presumably be improved by getting Gisena more time dilation, whether by Haeliel showing up to teach Gisena, Gisena unlocking the time domain on her ring, or Gisena training Auspice Temporal.
So we know two Halos right now. And we know that there are two Haloes we don't know.
Halo Of Singularity - Quad Stats for Gisena(Hopefully if those aren't nullified), combined with nullification of magic within Gisena's Sphere of influence combined with the removal of all conceptual limits on technology. We'd presumably be down to the Praxis, our Meta-Ontology Powers, and our Forebear's Blade powers within her halo. We could use our meta-ontology to make technology to take advantage of the Singularity Halo.
Renaissance Halo - Quad Stats for Gisena. Lose access to Grace of the Glaze, Evoker's Panopoly, and Maiden's Whisper, for Gisena to reproduce any 2 graces she has seen, with a change time of 3.125 weeks given Gisena's current time dilation. These slots can be used for Grace of the Glaze or other components if necessary. Gisena's probably seen more graces then people think if everything Augustine tried on us counts as a Grace.
Industrial Halo - Capabilities unknown, presumably Quad Stats for Gisena at least
Enlightenment Halo - Capabilities unknown , presumably Quad Stats for Gisena at least.
Quad Intelligence seems like it would make Gisena an Ordinalism learning monster. She might even be able to get away with an Accelerate/Legion build. There may be room to squeeze in another elements ordinal or construct ordinal, but Ordinalism has skill maintenance demands. It's like playing a musical instrument. 1 Ordinal, 2 at most is smart from a specialization standpoint.
1. Shield
2. Construct(For Artifice Tools)
3. Elements(Metal)(For Artifice resources)
4. Elements(Earth)(For Artifice Resources)(110% Numerical Parameters of 4th Ordinal Baseline presumably)
5. Accelerate
6. Legion
7. Accelerate(110% Numerical Parameters of 7th Ordinal Baseline) - 1st Attainment = Imperia's Legion attainment for a mostly accelerate build with 2 Gisenas
8. Accelerate(121% Numerical Parameters of 8th Ordinal Baseline)
9. Accelerate(133% Numerical Parameters of 9th Ordinal Baseline)
10. Accelerate(146% Numerical Parameters of 10th Ordinal Baseline)
11. Accelerate(160% Numerical Parameters of 11th Ordinal Baseline)
12. Accelerate(175% Numerical Parameters of 12th Ordinal Baseline)
Or perhaps even this(If Gisena sacrificed half her mythology Halo gains to have 3 bodies, they would still be transcendent geniuses)
1. Shield
2. Construct(For Artifice Tools)
3. Elements(Metal)(For Artifice Resources)
4. Construct(110% Numerical Parameters of 4th Ordinal Baseline)
5. Accelerate
6. Legion
7. Accelerate(110% Numerical Parameters of 7th Ordinal Baseline) - 1st Attainment
8. Legion(110% Numerical Parameters of 8th Ordinal Baseline)
9. Accelerate(121% Numerical Parameters of 9th Ordinal Baseline)
10. Legion(121% Numerical Parameters of 10th Ordinal Baseline)
11. Accelerate(133% Numerical Parameters of 11th Ordinal Baseline)
12. Accelerate(146% Numerical Parameters of 12th Ordinal Baseline)
Here's a list of Sorceress Council Graces, stuff Augustine Did, and Morgiana/Jeanne/Aeslyn's graces for stuff Gisena could plausibly get with Renaissance Halo immediately besides presumably Grace of the Glaze/Evoker's Panopoly/Maiden's Whisper, on the basis Gisena could plausibly have seen them all at one point or another. Also, Renaissance Halo lets her copy say... the Shogun's graces.
1. Porcelain's Invulnerability Grace(White Grace)
2. Porcelain's Water and Energy Grace(Blue Grace)
3. Grace of the Glaze(Would have to sacrifice it to get Renaissance Halo but may be able to use the Halo to get it back)
4. Homing Eyelasers(Kiln Grace)
5. Environmental Animation
6. Essence Draining Resurrection
7. Passive Petrification/Spacetime immobilization defense
8. Intangibility with immunity to detection by conventional senses and mundane physical interaction
9. Battle Precognition(Pennant)
10. Sanguine(Whatever that does precisely)
11. Daystar(Ridable Deathball that can reach at least a 10 mile radius without Grace of the Glaze active?)
12. Embroidered(Personal Outfit animation and weaponization, more outlandish = more powerful)
13. Vanish's Physical Enhancement package(Owned)
14. Vanish's Poison/Disease/Age Resistance(Possibly Owned)
15. Vanish's Orcish mind control grace(Owned if it's Galvanic Truss)
16. Vanish's Luck(Probably not owned)
17. Whatever Enchantress's metapower graces are
18. Abacus's Information Processing
19. Abacus's Phantasmal Weaponry
20. Abacus's Ferrokinesis
21. Whatever Shenanigans Augustine pulled to abduct Verschlengorge.
22. Whatever Augustine did to make the Tower of Earth
23. Possibly Whatever Augustine did to summon a lion from the realm of platonic forms
24. Every Exotic Condition Augustine Tried against Hunger in Fear Itself/The Truth Manifest
25. Phantasmal Servants(The Truth Manifest)
26. Armament Grade Restraint Magic or some appreciable fraction(The Truth manifest)
27. Augustines Protective and Augmentative spells, with the protoplasm flesh technique she uses
28. Infinite Space Defense that Augustine used
29. The analogue to Deathly Star Augustine used
30. Dimensional Separation targeting the Astral Plane.
31. Shade spawning firebolts, the shades last longer in the Orcwaster(Morgiana)
32. Jeanne's maybe a Wits Enhancer
33. Jeanne's Aerokinesis
34. Aselyn's Superheated smoke space warping expanding shroud.
First, It turns out the correct setup for Renaissance Halo is 2 graces Gisena has seen, changable every 2100 hours. That's 87.5 Days or 3.2 Lunar Months. I'm going to presume Gisena does get Time Dilation benefits here from Auspice Temporal though, which moves the Renaissance Halo conversion time down to 3.125 weeks. Gisena presumably experiences 96 hours a day. 8 hours dilated to 80, plus 8 normal hours, plus 8 hours of sleep. 2100/96 is 21.875 days. 21.875 days/7 = 3.125 weeks. This can presumably be improved by getting Gisena more time dilation, whether by Haeliel showing up to teach Gisena, Gisena unlocking the time domain on her ring, or Gisena training Auspice Temporal.
So we know two Halos right now. And we know that there are two Haloes we don't know.
Halo Of Singularity - Quad Stats for Gisena(Hopefully if those aren't nullified), combined with nullification of magic within Gisena's Sphere of influence combined with the removal of all conceptual limits on technology. We'd presumably be down to the Praxis, our Meta-Ontology Powers, and our Forebear's Blade powers within her halo. We could use our meta-ontology to make technology to take advantage of the Singularity Halo.
Renaissance Halo - Quad Stats for Gisena. Lose access to Grace of the Glaze, Evoker's Panopoly, and Maiden's Whisper, for Gisena to reproduce any 2 graces she has seen, with a change time of 3.125 weeks given Gisena's current time dilation. These slots can be used for Grace of the Glaze or other components if necessary. Gisena's probably seen more graces then people think if everything Augustine tried on us counts as a Grace.
Industrial Halo - Capabilities unknown, presumably Quad Stats for Gisena at least
Enlightenment Halo - Capabilities unknown , presumably Quad Stats for Gisena at least.
Quad Intelligence seems like it would make Gisena an Ordinalism learning monster. She might even be able to get away with an Accelerate/Legion build. There may be room to squeeze in another elements ordinal or construct ordinal, but Ordinalism has skill maintenance demands. It's like playing a musical instrument. 1 Ordinal, 2 at most is smart from a specialization standpoint.
1. Shield
2. Construct(For Artifice Tools)
3. Elements(Metal)(For Artifice resources)
4. Elements(Earth)(For Artifice Resources)(110% Numerical Parameters of 4th Ordinal Baseline presumably)
5. Accelerate
6. Legion
7. Accelerate(110% Numerical Parameters of 7th Ordinal Baseline) - 1st Attainment = Imperia's Legion attainment for a mostly accelerate build with 2 Gisenas
8. Accelerate(121% Numerical Parameters of 8th Ordinal Baseline)
9. Accelerate(133% Numerical Parameters of 9th Ordinal Baseline)
10. Accelerate(146% Numerical Parameters of 10th Ordinal Baseline)
11. Accelerate(160% Numerical Parameters of 11th Ordinal Baseline)
12. Accelerate(175% Numerical Parameters of 12th Ordinal Baseline)
Or perhaps even this(If Gisena sacrificed half her mythology Halo gains to have 3 bodies, they would still be transcendent geniuses)
1. Shield
2. Construct(For Artifice Tools)
3. Elements(Metal)(For Artifice Resources)
4. Construct(110% Numerical Parameters of 4th Ordinal Baseline)
5. Accelerate
6. Legion
7. Accelerate(110% Numerical Parameters of 7th Ordinal Baseline) - 1st Attainment
8. Legion(110% Numerical Parameters of 8th Ordinal Baseline)
9. Accelerate(121% Numerical Parameters of 9th Ordinal Baseline)
10. Legion(121% Numerical Parameters of 10th Ordinal Baseline)
11. Accelerate(133% Numerical Parameters of 11th Ordinal Baseline)
12. Accelerate(146% Numerical Parameters of 12th Ordinal Baseline)
Here's a list of Sorceress Council Graces, stuff Augustine Did, and Morgiana/Jeanne/Aeslyn's graces for stuff Gisena could plausibly get with Renaissance Halo immediately besides presumably Grace of the Glaze/Evoker's Panopoly/Maiden's Whisper, on the basis Gisena could plausibly have seen them all at one point or another. Also, Renaissance Halo lets her copy say... the Shogun's graces.
1. Porcelain's Invulnerability Grace(White Grace)
2. Porcelain's Water and Energy Grace(Blue Grace)
3. Grace of the Glaze(Would have to sacrifice it to get Renaissance Halo but may be able to use the Halo to get it back)
4. Homing Eyelasers(Kiln Grace)
5. Environmental Animation
6. Essence Draining Resurrection
7. Passive Petrification/Spacetime immobilization defense
8. Intangibility with immunity to detection by conventional senses and mundane physical interaction
9. Battle Precognition(Pennant)
10. Sanguine(Whatever that does precisely)
11. Daystar(Ridable Deathball that can reach at least a 10 mile radius without Grace of the Glaze active?)
12. Embroidered(Personal Outfit animation and weaponization, more outlandish = more powerful)
13. Vanish's Physical Enhancement package(Owned)
14. Vanish's Poison/Disease/Age Resistance(Possibly Owned)
15. Vanish's Orcish mind control grace(Owned if it's Galvanic Truss)
16. Vanish's Luck(Probably not owned)
17. Whatever Enchantress's metapower graces are
18. Abacus's Information Processing
19. Abacus's Phantasmal Weaponry
20. Abacus's Ferrokinesis
21. Whatever Shenanigans Augustine pulled to abduct Verschlengorge.
22. Whatever Augustine did to make the Tower of Earth
23. Possibly Whatever Augustine did to summon a lion from the realm of platonic forms
24. Every Exotic Condition Augustine Tried against Hunger in Fear Itself/The Truth Manifest
25. Phantasmal Servants(The Truth Manifest)
26. Armament Grade Restraint Magic or some appreciable fraction(The Truth manifest)
27. Augustines Protective and Augmentative spells, with the protoplasm flesh technique she uses
28. Infinite Space Defense that Augustine used
29. The analogue to Deathly Star Augustine used
30. Dimensional Separation targeting the Astral Plane.
31. Shade spawning firebolts, the shades last longer in the Orcwaster(Morgiana)
32. Jeanne's maybe a Wits Enhancer
33. Jeanne's Aerokinesis
34. Aselyn's Superheated smoke space warping expanding shroud.
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Do Augustine's spells count as Graces? They were made with the same language, just cast with an inferior material.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Yeah that's what I'm wondering too. I don't know but I think it's a possibility.
I don't know if the difference is enough to matter, but it seems they might not be just Graces: