A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
- Original
Lealope
Not yet invincible
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Hmm. I wonder if we can work towards evacuating the populace? It probably wouldn't save them from an Armament going out of its way to kill them but just getting them out of the way of the worst collateral damage would be pretty helpful. Ideally, we could try turn our Rank to that purpose and attempt to fight the Aberrations with our other attributes. That would make our fights significantly more difficult considering how much of our power comes from our Pressure but considering the valid reason we'd be doing it for, I don't think it would trip the Ring's "silly buggers" sensor.
[X] Call Up
In the end, it would just be too bitter of a taste to go right back to calculations after being exposed to Haeliel.
We still have 1000 protection otherwise, which might allow us to not get insta gibbed.
With Fall Back falling behind, it seems currently Death Gang reigns supreme. So far the plan from them is a gamble (get 6th Sign and hope for the best) and reducing our power by 1.1 Rank, because after sacrificing Threefold for Rank build the obvious choice now is to reduce our Rank.
Genius, as expected from the Death Gang. Of course Call Up will still fight the Armament, but hey, 5 pick fight hype people.
PS: Fucking hell, this reminds me of the Gisena EFB debate, where people started ignoring reality for their little precious
Lealope
Not yet invincible
- Pronouns
- She/Her
To be even fairer, even Destined Heroes in full bloom get turned to mulch by Indenture Cursebearers on a regular basis. For an barely sprouting hero like you, it would be pretty unreasonable to expect you to catch up with a Cursebearer as absurd as him.
Perhaps that's the price of having such a mighty protector; what room is there for true heroism to develop behind the bulwark of Lord Hunger? I look forward to annihilating the Terminator if only so that we can cut Aobaru loose and give him a chance to go through his own stories. After developing some kind of Conjunctional Advancement (maybe with Elixir) that would let us retain his ISH boosts, of course.
Zampano
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- Location
- Simping for DSB
1000 PROT and reduction of damage from incoming attacks by 3 orders of magnitude (in the worst case scenario where Shroud == Universe).
The Sign question is mostly academic, because even if I spent the extended update schedule beating the drum I wouldn't expect it to get a majority of votes. It's just important to me, personally, to get the last word in all possible social interactions. Every post is an argument
Lealope
Not yet invincible
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I suspect Gisena's hints about us needing to spend some time chilling the fuck out will grow progressively less subtle until she starts drawing political cartoons depicting stuff like a Hunger with all of his limbs cut off, screaming "COME AN' 'AVE A GO IF YOU THINK YOU'RE 'ARD ENOUGH!"
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TaskRabbit
Rodent of Unusual Goals
- Location
- PSU
Changing my vote from Fall Back to Call Up in order to avoid the Hold the Line nonsense. I need to go back to my previous post and edit it right?
Also, how do I vote against Aggressive Research? There doesn't seem to be a "don't sacrifice Rank" option.
Honestly I'm blown away that sacrificing Rank is being considered. It's the force multiplier bar none. Rank cajoles the universe into fitting your vision. So you'd better fucking bet that Rank is at a premium when you're fighting a foe that's not meant to be beaten!
Edit: so, for some reason I have the option to edit this post but not my previous post where I voted. Halp, how do I fix my vote?
Edit 2:
[X] Call Up
Also, how do I vote against Aggressive Research? There doesn't seem to be a "don't sacrifice Rank" option.
Honestly I'm blown away that sacrificing Rank is being considered. It's the force multiplier bar none. Rank cajoles the universe into fitting your vision. So you'd better fucking bet that Rank is at a premium when you're fighting a foe that's not meant to be beaten!
Edit: so, for some reason I have the option to edit this post but not my previous post where I voted. Halp, how do I fix my vote?
Edit 2:
[X] Call Up
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Zampano
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- Location
- Simping for DSB
[G] Covert
-[G] Techniques
--[G] Fortune Teller
I think the correct gameplay choice here is Techniques, but reading about a Fortune Teller infiltration would be very fun too
Lealope
Not yet invincible
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Nah, you can just post a new one and the tally will replace your vote.
You vote against it by default; it needs to achieve a majority of the total votes to go through.
It's worth considering. The Signs are very powerful and the way they scale is quite wild. For example, the Seventh could nigh-guarantee victory if it was combat relevant and possible to cast in the time we have, despite sacrificng an entire 4 Ranks and causing essence loss. The main risks are that the Signs involved won't be possible to cast within the time we have or won't be combat relevant. Potentially giving up on the seven Evening Signs bonus would be quite painful too.
Zampano
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- Location
- Simping for DSB
1. If you post a new vote it will overwrite your old one. Easier than going back to edit.
2. Aggressive Research will only win if it gets >50% of the votes. Failing to vote for it is the same as voting against it. (It has 9 out of a required ~28 votes rn, so it's unlikely to pass.)
3. Rank is one way of channeling power, and it's the fuel that our build has used in the past. But it isn't the only way of applying power. The Armor of Midnight's Universe-Tier protection is relevant for this fight in a way that +/- some finite amount of Rank wouldn't be.
I'm actually not sure we could give up on the ES bonus. I thought the recent update implied we're locked in to the ES for at least this purchase.
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Lealope
Not yet invincible
- Pronouns
- She/Her
That would be even worse, to be honest. If we're locked into Evening Sky, we go from getting three chances at a relevant power to having one shot and hoping it works out. Though I suppose having faith in the powers of a wishing well isn't entirely unreasonable.
TaskRabbit
Rodent of Unusual Goals
- Location
- PSU
Hey thanks for the clarification. My edit got ninja'd by your message and then I had to go shower.
I do understand how powerful the new signs have the potential to be, but I also have a counterpoint other than the risk of it not being applicable.
Going for the signs and dropping Rank is saying that one new ability (at reduced effectiveness due to Rank loss) is more useful than every single one of our current techniques at full strength. Signs are incredibly strong, but I just don't see one technique outweighing the entire kit we've built. Furthermore, many of the signs come with cooldown. What if the ability is only useable once within the timeframe of the battle? If we don't get enough usages of the sign to fully beat the armament, then we'll be stuck trying to finish it off with the rest of our kit at reduced potency.
I'm just uncomfortable with the idea of not being able to effectively fall back on our established techniques, reduced by loss of Rank.
I've already explained this. To begin with, Hold The Line is a risky proposal, so in order to succeed you do need to have good risks, which 6th Sign is. Likewise, I've already explained that, based on previous trends(which is to say 4th and 5th Signs, where two out of three picks had reasonable cool down), we are likely to get castable Sign anyway.
You are not "losing" power, you are merely transforming it into something that has lesser average value but bigger peaks. Even if we do accept that value of 6th Sign is lesser than 1 Rank, which is by no means given, of course that five picks and Heroic Progression will make up for the gap. How is that even in the question.
Look, how to put this nicely? Based on your argumentation it's clear that you have weak understanding on stuff here. So just take me on my word and vote for shit that's without a question agood choice. I'll take responsibility for everything.
That's literally the entire point of me proposing getting 6th Sign. Before we continue "every single one of our current techniques at full strength" is just fucking bloodcasting, deathly star and general rank combat, which is whatever.
Again, the entire point is that, at this very moment, Armor of Midnight is obviously more crucial to our build than 1 Rank. If magic fuck you fairy were to descent and lose us 1 Rank, we would still have a fighting chance against Procyon thanks to Armor of Midnight. If she was to lose us Armor of Midnight, we'd have no chance against Procyon as we'd lose protection against his dakka and so on.
And, obviously, 6th Sign > 5th Sign. There's is the risk of not getting anything usable, but even in that case, with no usable 6th Sign, we can still go and fight Procyon because that 1 Rank is not crucial in the same way Armor or OaF II or Thorn are. Like, that's what HDS and Bastion are for.
So, instead of repeating shit I've already explained at the very start of this discussion, can you folks just vote for no-brainer option that will make our character less likely to die, alright?
A bit different but hopefully we would be immune to most mental attacks, due to us being Cursebearers.
- Location
- Pindorama
The biggest reason why I'm not voting Research is that I would bet my farm the most relevant Sign for the Procyon fight would not be Evening Sky, immediately starting another row and making us lose that theme bonus we wanted so dearly. Picking the best possible Sign to win against Procyon would be the best idea, but we have Rank now and we don't know exactly what the spells will give us, so I'd rather keep it and gamble with what we have.
Why do people think that we can "lose" bonus? I saw this being talked about before.
- Location
- Pindorama
Tell me there won't be moaning and gnashing of teeth about saving the theme bonus for the seventh Sign only to lose it after. Yes, we don't have the bonus yet, but we essentially voted to commit in getting the bonus, and not getting it would provide a similar loss trigger as losing the vote. Ambition was the vote that counted on us having it, and now we wouldn't get it anymore.
Not that I thought the 5th sign bonuses were all that amazing personally, but hey, it was something.
Zampano
🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
- Location
- Simping for DSB
The theming set bonus looks like it only kicks in if we get exclusively Evening Sky tags, it's not just put 'on pause' if we deviate from the path.
On the other hand, the evening sky signs we've seen so far are all explicitly designed to spike our power up to absurd levels for any fight where we can prepare even a little bit. Evening Sky is the ideal power set for killing Armaments, tbh.
Lealope
Not yet invincible
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I have no idea what you mean by this. What are you going to do, cut off a finger if we lose? Pony up 900 bucks for the defensive Lesser Wish we'd burn? This isn't a demand for you to do either of course, I just found this part of your argument genuinely quite funny.
I think it's worth considering to what degree Hunger's risk assessment capabilities have been compromised by our loss of Mental Stability and Cursebearer Strain. Perhaps an Armament would only be a 4 pick if we were only staking our own life on the fight, which would be significantly more reasonable to describe as "decent". Otherwise, scrub Hunger vs. Armament Fish is not the image this fight invokes in me.
Moonlight Delusion might've actually been fairly helpful here!
Again, what makes you think that we can lose it?
You just need five or seven signs, you don't need to take them in the row.
E: Alright, I see
Well, that would suck, but as Ive said on the start, that's what rewards from Procyon are for.
If we succeed I get to told you so at you, if we lose you get to laugh at me, obviously.
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Hunger has a special connection to Versch. Maybe it's only because of their shared curse, but I'm hopeful that all Armaments and cursebearers are connected regardless of their exact curse. Could we exploit that somehow against the Armament?
Using Nightmare flight would likely fail against an Armament since Rank provides comprehensive defense, but perhaps if Hunger exploited that connection he could teleport it against its will anyways. If we could teleport it into the waiting maw of the Arcanist or some other trap that would change the fight since instead of killing the Armament we'd just need to weaken it enough for NIghtmare Flight to work.
Ruin is an interesting power, and one that's more flexible than I first thought. Perhaps Hunger could channel Ruin through the connection and create some openings to exploit.
We saw with Augustine that the concept of ownership is important to magic. And Hunger totally owns Procyon.
-Hunger has some power over the night sky and Procyon is named after a star.
-Hunger is the king of winter and procyon the star is in the winter hexagon.
-Hunger has lots of kingly themes, see OaF and Feat: Crown.
-Cursebearers have a deep connection to Armaments.
Combine all this, and perhaps Hunger could claim Procyon in some way?
Using Nightmare flight would likely fail against an Armament since Rank provides comprehensive defense, but perhaps if Hunger exploited that connection he could teleport it against its will anyways. If we could teleport it into the waiting maw of the Arcanist or some other trap that would change the fight since instead of killing the Armament we'd just need to weaken it enough for NIghtmare Flight to work.
Ruin is an interesting power, and one that's more flexible than I first thought. Perhaps Hunger could channel Ruin through the connection and create some openings to exploit.
We saw with Augustine that the concept of ownership is important to magic. And Hunger totally owns Procyon.
-Hunger has some power over the night sky and Procyon is named after a star.
-Hunger is the king of winter and procyon the star is in the winter hexagon.
-Hunger has lots of kingly themes, see OaF and Feat: Crown.
-Cursebearers have a deep connection to Armaments.
Combine all this, and perhaps Hunger could claim Procyon in some way?
I can do that anyway - remember who said Opalescent Tower was shit and after that had to admit he was wrong - because I still do.
Thread, vote for either Fall Back or Call Up, if there is no 2 pick fight or civilians die, you can laugh at me. I take full responsibility for ending the quest early, and by responsibility I mean none at all. If you do not do that I will insult you and REEEE at you for not getting what I want.
Vote stupidly and without tactics - this is what heroism is all about.
PS: This message was brought to you by the Death Gang - no brain activity detected since 1947.