From AST 0:
From this quest:
Zampano posed a good question - how many points of Favor would we get if we picked Accursed Favor. One? Three?
-
Going forward, links to content from Twitter (now X) will no longer be embedded. Pre-existing links should not be affected.
A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
- Original
Zampano posed a good question - how many points of Favor would we get if we picked Accursed Favor. One? Three?
Rihaku
The Internet
Current vote count?
Against fish, perhaps! But even still, it has considerable synergy with Huntress' Moon effectiveness doubling applying to fish-based targets...
Against fish, perhaps! But even still, it has considerable synergy with Huntress' Moon effectiveness doubling applying to fish-based targets...
To a true fisherman, everything is a fish!
LordOfMurder
Bhaal
- Location
- Australia
[X] Forebear's Blade: Fisher King
That's a lot of accursed favour. Like more than you get for sacrificing remmitances for. Seems worth。
That's a lot of accursed favour. Like more than you get for sacrificing remmitances for. Seems worth。
Last edited:
[x] Stranglethorn
Double STR feeds directly into Ruin which is not just attack power but our most general defence.
Double CON gives synergy with UV which we could afford to buy right now.
Double WILL adds yet more to our physicals (more than making up for the AGI pen) and it helps directly with mastering both summons and mental contamination.
Establishment: building an interstellar empire is our geas task and getting started on it is apparently priority 1. This firms up the foundations.
*Grants no immediate power since you're not actually getting Stranglethorn!
- We have day before we go back to the RoM, surely we can hunt a 1 pick fight with Rank 8.475 and hypersonic movement!
*You need Stranglethorn to get Sword in the Stone. Sword in the Stone is really good, not just because Hour of Reckoning is broken - it has massive utility for the Geas task.
[x] Sharpening the Blade [4 Arete]
A pick discount!
Improving and increasing PROT gives synergy with UV which we could afford to buy right now.
Plus WITS and combat INT - we've just seen what happens when you think too slow in combat.
[ ] Forebear's Blade: Fisher King [12 + 12 Arete]
Costs five picks total. One of the Defining Advancements that could have been unlocked by [Feat: Crown].
- We'll need another 2 picks and 12 arete spent before we see any benefit
- "that could have been unlocked by [Feat: Crown]" (my italics) between this and later comments that not all fish fights will make Fisher King available we can conclude that Be The Change did not unlock Fisher King or any other DAs.
*Double the proc rate and mitigation effect of Huntress' Moon against fish-based targets
- Does this mean we'll get twice as many fish based options when looking for a Huntress Moon target or that all fish we encounter are twice as likely to be a Huntress Moon target?
- We're presuming that doubling the mitigation means doubling the period in which decimation is halted. Maybe it means we turn into a font of life force for a month.
*+50% to All Stats for purposes of fishing. Only works on literal fishing.
- Meh. If it was only while fishing we could have set up a pond by our throne and had some utility for ruling but only on fishing is useless - it just means fish have to be even more dangerous to be worth mitigation or picks while fishing for pleasure doesn't need mega stats.
*++Wisdom, +Int, +Wits, +50% Rank growth
- A solid 1-2 pick 7 arete contibution to the overall value.
*Wait for it
*+10 Accursed Favor
- I'm not really that interested in interacting with the Accursed directly again.
*Grail Keeper: At any time while within a land he rules the wielder may take on the Decimator's Affliction into himself. For the duration, the Decimator's Affliction merely poisons the land, rendering it barren and and its residents infertile, rather than claiming lives. Territories not under the wielder's rule are not affected by this mitigation. This causes him to suffer the Affliction of Leprosy and the Mutilating Affliction for the duration.
- Because mass crop failure never caused famine and megadeaths. No wait, the other thing.
*Immensely powerful Decimator's mitigation, allowing it to be weaponized against opposing polities
- All the morale breaking value of strategic bombing (0) without the impact on enemy infrastucture, industry and logistics!
*May be used to immediately unlock Sword in the Stone in lieu of one of its requirements
- Meh. If we want it we'll meet the requirements, no need to swallow the turd directly from the Forebear's arsehole.
[ ] Hasten Signs [19 Arete]
We haven't used all the signs we have yet. Note that the example burns Rank to use.
[x] Undying Vanguard
Double STR feeds directly into Ruin which is not just attack power but our most general defence.
Double CON gives synergy with UV which we could afford to buy right now.
Double WILL adds yet more to our physicals (more than making up for the AGI pen) and it helps directly with mastering both summons and mental contamination.
Establishment: building an interstellar empire is our geas task and getting started on it is apparently priority 1. This firms up the foundations.
*Grants no immediate power since you're not actually getting Stranglethorn!
- We have day before we go back to the RoM, surely we can hunt a 1 pick fight with Rank 8.475 and hypersonic movement!
*You need Stranglethorn to get Sword in the Stone. Sword in the Stone is really good, not just because Hour of Reckoning is broken - it has massive utility for the Geas task.
[x] Sharpening the Blade [4 Arete]
A pick discount!
Improving and increasing PROT gives synergy with UV which we could afford to buy right now.
Plus WITS and combat INT - we've just seen what happens when you think too slow in combat.
[ ] Forebear's Blade: Fisher King [12 + 12 Arete]
Costs five picks total. One of the Defining Advancements that could have been unlocked by [Feat: Crown].
- We'll need another 2 picks and 12 arete spent before we see any benefit
- "that could have been unlocked by [Feat: Crown]" (my italics) between this and later comments that not all fish fights will make Fisher King available we can conclude that Be The Change did not unlock Fisher King or any other DAs.
*Double the proc rate and mitigation effect of Huntress' Moon against fish-based targets
- Does this mean we'll get twice as many fish based options when looking for a Huntress Moon target or that all fish we encounter are twice as likely to be a Huntress Moon target?
- We're presuming that doubling the mitigation means doubling the period in which decimation is halted. Maybe it means we turn into a font of life force for a month.
*+50% to All Stats for purposes of fishing. Only works on literal fishing.
- Meh. If it was only while fishing we could have set up a pond by our throne and had some utility for ruling but only on fishing is useless - it just means fish have to be even more dangerous to be worth mitigation or picks while fishing for pleasure doesn't need mega stats.
*++Wisdom, +Int, +Wits, +50% Rank growth
- A solid 1-2 pick 7 arete contibution to the overall value.
*Wait for it
*+10 Accursed Favor
- I'm not really that interested in interacting with the Accursed directly again.
*Grail Keeper: At any time while within a land he rules the wielder may take on the Decimator's Affliction into himself. For the duration, the Decimator's Affliction merely poisons the land, rendering it barren and and its residents infertile, rather than claiming lives. Territories not under the wielder's rule are not affected by this mitigation. This causes him to suffer the Affliction of Leprosy and the Mutilating Affliction for the duration.
- Because mass crop failure never caused famine and megadeaths. No wait, the other thing.
*Immensely powerful Decimator's mitigation, allowing it to be weaponized against opposing polities
- All the morale breaking value of strategic bombing (0) without the impact on enemy infrastucture, industry and logistics!
*May be used to immediately unlock Sword in the Stone in lieu of one of its requirements
- Meh. If we want it we'll meet the requirements, no need to swallow the turd directly from the Forebear's arsehole.
[ ] Hasten Signs [19 Arete]
We haven't used all the signs we have yet. Note that the example burns Rank to use.
[x] Undying Vanguard
I can't believe I'm picking this. I've literally told myself if I ever saw a discount package with all those minor picks I'd vote for it. But it's weighted against the biggest mystery box I've ever seen, 10 accursed favor. It also gets a Holy Fuck rating, what's a quester to do?
I also like that it sort of justifies for me, in universe, why we may get a 'wish' save later on. If we have the eye of the Accursed, I can rationalize why it's happening, and perhaps the Accursed would resolve the situation in a more meaningful way than just 'teleport to safety' if we can spend Favor along with the wish to influence how our situation was resolved.
I can't believe I'm backstabbing myself before I even cast my vote, but here we are!
[X] Forebear's Blade: Fisher King [12 + 12 Arete]
I also like that it sort of justifies for me, in universe, why we may get a 'wish' save later on. If we have the eye of the Accursed, I can rationalize why it's happening, and perhaps the Accursed would resolve the situation in a more meaningful way than just 'teleport to safety' if we can spend Favor along with the wish to influence how our situation was resolved.
I can't believe I'm backstabbing myself before I even cast my vote, but here we are!
[X] Forebear's Blade: Fisher King [12 + 12 Arete]
ImperatorV
The Laughing One
- Location
- The Voyaging Realm
Something to keep in mind for Fisher King is we don't actually get any of the benefits (including favor) until we finish it... Which takes another 2 picks and 12 Arete.
For a while I was thinking "Fisher King is too good, where's the catch..." The catch is that it does literally nothing for us until we get another 2 picks. That'll probably be after the Lord Protector fight.
So yeah, 10 Accursed Favor is top tier, but keep in mind it is a potential-based pick. OTOH, we just bought two EFBs: OaF (hybrid power-potential) and ADS (pure power). Tears also gave a high amount of immediate power with Praxis Spam capability. If there was ever a time to buy potential, the time would be now. The question is, for our potential-based EFB, do we want Fisher King or Pillars of Creation? Which is more important to us - vastly improved Decimator mitigation and Accursed Favor, or a steady source of picks and Hunger Sated targets?
If we want to maximize "Dealing with Curses," going FK into Pillars is optimal. Double duration and proc rate on Hunger Sated with Fish quadruples the amount of time that Pillars can resolve the Decimator, killing the need to worry about that for a long-ass time. If we're optimizing for power growth, getting Pillars first is more optimal, since that'll get us our source of picks sooner.
Ultimately, after thinking about it this way, I have concluded that I support Fisher King. Despite the "no immediate power at all" issue. Reaching maximum possible Decimator Mitigation is good for us (no more morality debates) good for Hunger (less stress, one less fire he needs to be constantly putting out) and good for the world (more decimator mitigation is good for everybody).
[X] Forebear's Blade: Fisher King
For a while I was thinking "Fisher King is too good, where's the catch..." The catch is that it does literally nothing for us until we get another 2 picks. That'll probably be after the Lord Protector fight.
So yeah, 10 Accursed Favor is top tier, but keep in mind it is a potential-based pick. OTOH, we just bought two EFBs: OaF (hybrid power-potential) and ADS (pure power). Tears also gave a high amount of immediate power with Praxis Spam capability. If there was ever a time to buy potential, the time would be now. The question is, for our potential-based EFB, do we want Fisher King or Pillars of Creation? Which is more important to us - vastly improved Decimator mitigation and Accursed Favor, or a steady source of picks and Hunger Sated targets?
If we want to maximize "Dealing with Curses," going FK into Pillars is optimal. Double duration and proc rate on Hunger Sated with Fish quadruples the amount of time that Pillars can resolve the Decimator, killing the need to worry about that for a long-ass time. If we're optimizing for power growth, getting Pillars first is more optimal, since that'll get us our source of picks sooner.
Ultimately, after thinking about it this way, I have concluded that I support Fisher King. Despite the "no immediate power at all" issue. Reaching maximum possible Decimator Mitigation is good for us (no more morality debates) good for Hunger (less stress, one less fire he needs to be constantly putting out) and good for the world (more decimator mitigation is good for everybody).
[X] Forebear's Blade: Fisher King
That's something I've been trying to explain for some time - basically, value of decreasing future costs is entirely comparable to value of increasing future gains.
That's what we did with Gleam and Penitent; at some point Hunger is going Tyrant proc and lose his shit, an those two will reduce damage we take from it. Or how Crimson Flare more or less made sure that we don't have to worry about companions getting wounded thanks to easy access to healing.
Pillars+Fisher King are as close to perfectly mitigating a Curse as we can get this early in the story.
Lealope
Not yet invincible
- Pronouns
- She/Her
New theory: the Forebear is dead but dreaming and Hunger is the shape that dream has taken. Even the Hidden Ones could not kill him to permanently so they're attempting to convince that dreaming god to remain sleeping. Of course, the Accursed saw fit to intervene and offer that dream a true life.
"Leprosy!
Little bits keep falling off of me
I'm not half the man I used to be
Since I came down with Leprosy." [To the tune of Yesterday by Paul McCartney]
"Your leg counts as a 'little bit'?"
"Nah, that fell off from the other affliction. I was singing about the ulcerated fingertips."
"Lovely. You know, you could have had more Mitigation by taking a monthly trip to a perfectly scaled, time dilated, extra-dimensional fishing spot?"
"Well I spent the potential on this... wait... there goes my nose! And now Accursed Sempai has to notice me!"
Little bits keep falling off of me
I'm not half the man I used to be
Since I came down with Leprosy." [To the tune of Yesterday by Paul McCartney]
"Your leg counts as a 'little bit'?"
"Nah, that fell off from the other affliction. I was singing about the ulcerated fingertips."
"Lovely. You know, you could have had more Mitigation by taking a monthly trip to a perfectly scaled, time dilated, extra-dimensional fishing spot?"
"Well I spent the potential on this... wait... there goes my nose! And now Accursed Sempai has to notice me!"
Thanatanos
PvP Lover, Assasin Player
[X] Forebear's Blade: Fisher King [12 + 12 Arete]
Damn, this almost convinced me, but then I remembered that we are not in any way locked out of Pillars if we take Fisher King right now.
Zampano
🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
- Location
- Simping for DSB
No, one of Fisher king's Powers is to turn the affliction against civilians that aren't lucky enough to be in our territorial boundaries.
Every scrap of moral outrage and name calling aimed at me in the updates since Opalescent Tower Is now revealed to be a hypocritical lie. Instead of an environmental catastrophe, we're voting to unlock the power to commit war crimes.
Great.
[X] Sharpening the Blade [4 Arete]
[X] Hasten Signs [19 Arete]
Projectile
Thinking of Rabbits
- Location
- USA
What kind of fish exists that simultaneously requires that Hunger have +50% All Stats to catch and also can be caught through literal fishing, with a rod and bait? I never thought I'd be missing that fishing competition lore.
I mean, nothing in the option makes us commit war crimes and Hunger already has all the power he needs to do that, anyway. We can treat Decimation exactly as we treat it right now, expect it would be easier to find fishes that deal with it and in case we fuck up, there's an option to murder fewer people - "Everyone minus Hunger's subjects" is, in the end, less than simply "everyone".
You know, I probably forgot and it did happen at some point, but did Hunger ever actually get in the robot? As in piloting Versch.
Zampano
🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
- Location
- Simping for DSB
At some point we got a link with Versch's curse, yes. Id guess that you can ctrl+f "praehir" in reader mode and find it pretty quick. I predict it's somewhere on page 3.
Projectile
Thinking of Rabbits
- Location
- USA
As you surely intended, I'm a bit tweaked by this. Because I was planning to, you know, not do the gigamurder.
It's a shame that half the option is basically wasted, but headpats.