>>I'm counting Sharkey's GPT2 posts as 10% of their total wordcount
:anger:

>get option that automatically has us win

why though

[X] Thousandfold Shears
-[X] Artful Thorn
[X] Hold Back
Are you content with never getting Silver at all then? because there will always be a temptation, a shiny too valuable to pass up. If we want any EFB we have to save regardless, and the best time is now, not "after this build vote".
 
We are less than 2.4 arete away from Silver buying Thorns here. We don't have to "save up".
I know and I fully agree. Just wanted to reuse his words for the lulz
Are you content with never getting Silver at all then? because there will always be a temptation, a shiny too valuable to pass up. If we want any EFB we have to save regardless, and the best time is now, not "after this build vote".
 
At this point, the question is not "Get Thorn and Delay Silver vs no Thorn and get Silver Now," the question is "We get Silver either way, is 7 Arete a good price for Thorn and +30% rank?"

I like that exchange.
 
At this point, the question is not "Get Thorn and Delay Silver vs no Thorn and get Silver Now," the question is "We get Silver either way, is 7 Arete a good price for Thorn and +30% rank?"

I like that exchange.
In this we are in agreement. Thorns is a good trick, +30% rank, and the better victory condition and chances are worth the 7 arete when we can immediately turn around and buy Silver anyway.
 
Instant death due to being 1.1 arete short? :p
That is pretty bad, death is very high on the scale of bad things!

The only thing that I could imagine possibly being worse is collapsing outside the Rotbeast after a final Quickness and having Gisena rescue us. She Nullity bombs the thing and Versch pops his ult just deep enough inside our cut to tag the monsters vitals. We're safe, but at what cost?

After a Rank crippling, humiliating defeat, we suffer a princess carry at the hands our lovely lady. In front of the whole of the sovereignty we're demoted to a mere footnote as the girls soak up all the praise and adoration of the populace. By the time Hunger gets back on his feet he'd probably just hand over his Panoply and call it quits. There wouldn't be much living this one down, hard to build a legend when you're the damsel in distress after all!
 
That is pretty bad, death is very high on the scale of bad things!

The only thing that I could imagine possibly being worse is collapsing outside the Rotbeast after a final Quickness and having Gisena rescue us. She Nullity bombs the thing and Versch pops his ult just deep enough inside our cut to tag the monsters vitals. We're safe, but at what cost?

After a Rank crippling, humiliating defeat, we suffer a princess carry at the hands our lovely lady. In front of the whole of the sovereignty we're demoted to a mere footnote as the girls soak up all the praise and adoration of the populace. By the time Hunger gets back on his feet he'd probably just hand over his Panoply and call it quits. There wouldn't be much living this one down, hard to build a legend when you're the damsel in distress after all!
Ah! But that's where Thorn comes in! It allows us to achieve victory without any serious conditions or exhaustion!
 
We need to take down the necromancer fast if we're going to fight him. Kicks of Fury gives us 46.8 Strength kicks. As long as we can connect one of them, we should be good for that encounter. Then we have three picks, which we use to get Determination's Grasp to allows us contest esoteric effects, so that we can proceed along the Difficult Route in the safest way possible.
It should be stated that the benefits of The Forsaken routes shouldn't be underestimated! The secret history of the world can't be found easily, and the benefits of it can't be underestimated!

Also, frontloading the risk with the lich is something that should be considered. He will be significantely stronger later, and it's all but guaranteed that he wil drop a 4-pick choice that helps deal with esoteric effects!

And Thelisi's Eyes and Debt are being underestimated! The latter would allow Edwin to overcharge his infusion, massively increasing his blitz potential (which would particularely be powerful against the necromancer) while the former would help a lot with the sight debuff. And this debuff is only to be getting worse. On top of that, it's a rare pick, due to Edwin likely not having a need to develop something like this outside of the crypt.
Isn't our foot still broken though? Edwin can fight through the pain and all but switching to a kick heavy build and potentially worsening the Condition while in the Crypt doesn't seem like the safest route in the world.
Edwin fortunately only has 1 broken foot! Still suffers a major debuff in it's use, but it's still a major damage multiplier. But yes, that's a good way to pulverize the remaining bones, or to get two broken feet.

On a side-note, Edwin's progression works differently from Hunger. Both use the pick system, but while Hunger's progression is based on absorbing aspects of his foes and on his panoply, Edwin's based around what he learns from each fight. This means that Edwin has a lot more control o which picks are available, and it means that all picks are synergetic with one aother, or help deal with the current situation. Taking a purview, for example, is a mix of Edwin having a insight on Body of Titans and his body strenghting after a difficult fight, allowing him to flash-improve parts of himself. Meawhile Fists of destruction and Kicks of fury are skills derivated from the Exalted Sun in the aspects of "punching" and "kicking" respectively. In a way they also are gateway picks, because both would unlock more stuff related to punching and kicking.

On the other hand, he has a much harder time acessing esoteric effects. His current lack of ranged attacks, or any form of esoteric avenue of attack is an example of this, due to both being outside of his area of expertise. Maybe he should train with throwing weapons after the crypt? Would be much easier now that he doesn't have Martyr hanging around his head for a year.

This also means that rare picks are, well, even rarer for him, due to the fact that he has face a novel situation instead of absorbing an aspect of a foe. On the other hand, all of them will have reliable ways for them to appear again.

Thelisi's eyes, for example, will always be available if Edwin faces a situation that hinders his eyesight, or use illussions. While on the other hand, the situation necessary for something like uttermost or inhertor to appear has to be rather extraordinary.

I find it quite interesting creating the picks for Edwin, it's quite fun to come up with powers that have to be consistent with existing magical systems. I try to make it somewhat different to Hunger's own, while at the same time drawing inspiration from his. I also think that his build ended up hilariously powerful, but then again, it's the power of a fully synergetic EFB equivalent, so i think it's fair.

Also interesting to think how his progression would function if he hadn't taken a focus on body, or without Body Of Titans, or with other magic systems. The first one means that he would be much less reliant on stats, which means that he would be much more of a glass cannon. On the other hand, he would have a much, much greater offensive power, and a easier time time acessing esoteric effects(The Exalted Sun does have great esoteric effects, it's just that Edwin's focus with it doesn't give access to them. Thelisi's skill would be a good way to start to remedy that...)

Not taking Body Of TItans would effecitively serve as a -progression for Edwin's build, and would have meant a even harder time gettin access to esoteric effects, since taking something like Thelisi would be impossible. On the other hand, his actual stats would likely be comparable, since Body Of Titans is more of a modifier of the quality of stats, not of their quantity.

And other magic systems...Selfhood would be quite interesting with progression. Would likely be somewhat similar to how it currently works, probably would have also lead to a choice between which aspect to develop, and the superpower based around Edwin's personality would be quite neat.

Thaumaturgy would be the weiderst one. Specially as this magic is the only one that doesn't benefit much from fights. How it would likely work can also vary quite a bit. A hybrid build would likely be the most efficient, improving stats to deal with easier fights, while saving big-spells for the difficult fights. Oh thaumaturgy, never chosen...

828 words.
 
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Ah! But that's where Thorn comes in! It allows us to achieve victory without any serious conditions or exhaustion!
Dunno man, fainting from exhaustion just after final confrontation is a time honored tradition of legendary heroes.

Bonus points for fainting while standing up and you are so badass you remain standing with your fist raised make the plebs go ga-ga.
 
[X] Cut Through
-[X] Artful Thorn
[X] Sea of Nullity


"Now plant your feet, Grit your teeth, AND EAT THAT HORSE!"
 
Ah! But that's where Thorn comes in! It allows us to achieve victory without any serious conditions or exhaustion!
Of course that's the smart play, but instead we can speculate and flirt with disaster in the twilight of the vote! That is the true power of late night voting, irresponsible band-wagoning that doesn't have enough time to propagate... probably anyway. It's pretty much safe sex as far as voting is concerned!


...You know, I could delete this, but i'll just bump the thread in shame instead.
 
Of course that's the smart play, but instead we can speculate and flirt with disaster in the twilight of the vote! That is the true power of late night voting, irresponsible band-wagoning that doesn't have enough time to propagate... probably anyway. It's pretty much safe sex as far as voting is concerned!


...You know, I could delete this, but i'll just bump the thread in shame instead.
it's the other side of the mirror from runeblue360's secret S rank technique of very-early astroturfing. Someday I will find a pick that is worth mortgaging my future, and the Zampano Marker will enter general circulation in numbers to blot out the sun
 
Fanwork#2658 Words

Sleep is for the weak. I have no idea what I want to vote for anymore, but it's probably too late in any case. Rank or Stats, at least the fucking Rotbeast will be dead by the end of this.

Now I slumber.

Omake: "Kindness Rendered"

Kos sighed, struggling to keep concentration and suppress the sneeze that threatened to escape him as he stirred the pestle. The young boy tried to be as careful as possible, but some of the pixie dust had escaped the mortar and got in his nose previously, and now he was reaping the consequences of inattention. The last thing he wanted was to waste Helen's ingredients though, so he just focused on the monotonous movements and did his best to ignore the itch.

Mixing potions was a demanding art, requiring nimble thoughts, a steady hand and quick reactions. It barely counted as magic, people said, and in some ways they were right. Maybe mighty alchemists could perform miracles by extracting essences from wondrous materials and blending them into spectacular marvels, but that was as far removed from him as the distant moon. Theirs was a lesser art, of cheap tinctures that healed bones slightly quicker and simple tonics that warmed one in winter. It wasn't anything glamorous or impressive, but it did the job. More importantly, anyone could learn how to do it, and it didn't require any magic talent at all for its least uses.

Kos frowned involuntarily as the thought came to his mind once more. He was one of the lucky few who had not just magic talent, but a real Gift. His supernatural intuition had saved his life more than once and had proven to be exceedingly helpful while learning how to mix potions. Such natural expressions of magic were rare but not unheard of even among those without an exalted lineage, Helen had taught him. She never let on that anything was wrong, but Kos didn't need to be a genius to notice how she would sometimes look inexplicably sad, or how even a beginner like him was already better at creating mixtures than the experienced and highly educated Helen.

Because some things even the sharpest mind and the steadiest hands couldn't make up for.

Gifts were rare, but almost everyone had some level of affinity for magic. Most would never accomplish anything beyond lighting a candle or slightly changing their eye color with it, but it was there, the Heart of Creation freely sharing its love with all its people. All, but the select few that were born without a connection, marked by their mundanity and forever denied that chance. Rarer still were the cases when it happened to the children of nobility.

Helen hadn't shared her story with Kos, but she didn't need to. It was easy enough to guess after living together for several months.

It was unfair. Helen was the kindest person he had ever met, never once resenting her circumstances and doing her best to make the world a better place, even if by a tiny bit. She had saved the boy when he thought he was a goner, nurtured him to health and given him a roof over his head. She had bravely stood up to the beggar chief when he came in demanding that Kos return to his duties, making a deal in exchange for his safety. She wasn't like one of those fake priests that liked to preach on the main square, she went out and helped people in need, giving everything of herself and expecting so very little in return.

That such a woman would be punished by the Heart was maddening to think about.

With a grimace Kos stopped and slumped his shoulders, the brown mass inside the mortar a clear sign that he'd made some mistake along the line. His Gift was far from perfect and often missed things, as could be seen from the fact that he had almost ended half-dead in some ditch. That was why he couldn't simply rely on it and needed to pay attention when mixing potions. Still, lately things had been getting to him.

It wasn't anything major, just little things piling up one after another, and another potion shop opening up near them had just been the last straw. Seeing people dismiss Helen for her lack of magic... it was infuriating, but what could they do? He just needed to do his best, and maybe one day he could give back a little of her kindness.

"Kos," he heard her soft voice all of a sudden and flinched.

The boy turned around and saw that her standing at the door of their little lab, a faint smile upon her features. She wasn't what one call beautiful or even pretty, but she took care of her appearance and made sure that he did the same. Involuntarily his cheeks reddened and he tried to push the failed potion behind his back, even knowing that it was futile.

"H-hi, Helen," he stammered, at once wishing his Gift included the ability to sink through the floor instead. "Do you need something?"

"No," she shook her head gently. "I just wanted to tell you that I'm going out. Don't let me distract you from your studies."

Kos bit his lip, on the verge of offering to accompany her. Helen would often go out and home inspections, and sometimes simply helped people she found on the way. It was how he'd been saved, so he couldn't exactly resent that routine of hers. It worried him that someday she would meet an unfortunate accident or worse, and he wouldn't be there to prevent it. She had a dangerous habit of believing the best of people even when they might not deserve it.

But someone also had to look after the shop, and it was true that he still had much to learn if he didn't want their little potion shop to go out of business.

"Alright," he acquiesced at last after some hesitation. "Please be careful, Helen."

Her smile brightened and she hummed in agreement.

"Of course I will, Kos. Thank you for worrying about me, but I know how to take care of myself."

They said their goodbyes and he turned back towards the alchemical equipment. With a sigh he began to set things up again, trying to chase away dark thoughts of what could happen to Helen during her rounds. Slowly he lost himself in the mixing and waiting, the careful adjusting of temperature and the subtle magic that the process drew from him. The worries and anxiety fell away, and all that was left was the bright fires of inspiration that burned within his mind and drew him towards ever greater heights.

Achieving such complete focus was a rare thing for him, so he barely noticed the passage of time, too engrossed with the ease the normally difficult steps of the Insight Potion flowed. Absentmindedly he finished it and chucked it down without even checking whether he succeeded. His Gift brightened even more, its light like a razor-sharp sword pointing him towards the desired outcome.

His movements turned feverish, an unknown excitement bubbling from within him as he threw together ingredients in an only barely understood order and with seemingly random timing, magic flowing from him freely like never before. His world narrowed down to the cauldron and nothing else, a preternatural sureness of his success filling him.

Afterwards he stared in stupor at the shimmering potion, it and the missing ingredients the only proof that it hadn't been just a dream. His Gift had never intervened so strongly before, almost taking over and guiding him through a complex performance that he shouldn't have been ready for for months if not years. Even full mastery of the receipt shouldn't have allowed him to create something like this with their lacking materials, but through some manner of miracle he'd managed to find substitutes and made up the rest with his own magic.

It was of very inferior quality, just barely a passing grade, yet it was a bona-fide Panacea. Not one of those mixtures that cured colds and healed cuts, but something that could bring someone back from the brink of death or cure major illnesses.

He wouldn't be able to repeat this for a long time yet, Kos was sure. But it still filled him with giddy excitement just how much they could earn from this. More importantly, even if he only dimly remembered the process, it was still something that he had done with his own two hands. He knew what to strive for now, it was only a matter of putting in the effort, and Kos was more than willing to do that if it meant a better future for them both.

With a yawn he stretched and looked around, realizing that the sun has already fallen with some surprise and worry. Sometimes Helen was very late, so it wasn't time to panic yet, but it was quite dangerous outside during the dark. He would know, he'd lived his whole life in the slums and made it his business to survive as best as he could.

Thankfully he didn't have to wait for long, the sound of the door slamming open signifying Helen's arrival.

There was something wrong though. She was usually quite careful with their home and taught him the same. For her to disregard that...

With swift footsteps the boy rushed towards the house entrance, coming upon a bizarre scene and freezing in shock. Not because of the situation itself, as it just seemed that Helen had brought an injured man to their doorstep once more. No, it was the man himself that captured the boy's attention.

The first thing he noticed was the man's eyes. Even wounded and half-dead from exhaustion, there was an intensity to his gaze that beggared belief. The eyes shone with some emotion that he had trouble identifying when the man looked at Helen, something between annoyance and gratitude, but above all there was an assurance to them, a certainty that he would survive and thrive no matter what.

The injured man wore a tattered cloak of starlit midnight and carried an enormous blade, their presence broadcasting magic to his senses the likes of which he'd never felt before. His Gift assured Kos that there was nothing to fear from the man, yet simultaneously warned Kos that crossing the warrior would be the last thing he did, no matter the man's state.

"Helen?" he asked cautiously. "What's the matter?.."

"This?" she answered, looking away sheepishly. "Just someone I met on the way. I tried to do what I could, but he needs proper care. Could you get some healing potions please?"

Kos blinked, then realized she couldn't have possibly known about his latest achievement and simply meant the normal version they usually sold.

He eyed the swordsman with some uncertainty. Now the annoyance was more pronounced, but the man wasn't making any aggressive movements, just standing there patiently.

"Hunger," the man said as he caught Kos's eye. "My name is Hunger, and all I need is a place to stay for a short time. I'll pay you handsomely for the trouble."

Kos dithered, though probably not for the reasons they thought. He didn't mind helping this man out, and even sharing some potions to help with recovery wouldn't be too bad. He knew what it was like to be down on one's luck with no one to extend a helping hand, and it didn't feel like the man was a bad person.

What caused Kos pause was that his Gift was all but blaring in his ears, telling him that this was who the Panacea was meant for. It pained him to give up his achievement just like that, but his Gift had never led him wrong when it bothered to chime in.

It was just strange that it spoke with such clarity on matters concerning this Hunger.

Still, he might not have followed his Gift's advice if his intuition didn't also tell him that the man might have a way to help Helen like no one else could, and that was worth any kind of sacrifice.

With a resigned frown he darted towards the laboratory and picked up the potion, carrying it back gingerly. The last thing he wanted was to spill this treasure.

Helen had already led Hunger to a spare bed of theirs and the man had lain down, though his cloak was still wrapped around his shoulders and the blade never far from where he could grab it.

Kos gave Hunger the potion, ignoring Helen's shocked gasp when she recognized it, and watched as the man gulped the Panacea down in one go, his heart clenching in pain. Still, Hunger seemed to immediately feel better and finally allowed himself to succumb to exhaustion, drifting off into an uneasy sleep.

It took a few days until Hunger recovered somewhat and the time for a question he'd been simultaneously dreading and anticipating came.

"Can you teach Helen magic?" he asked, bowing deeply.

It was nighttime again, and the man was standing in their courtyard under the starlight, exercising his sword forms. Kos was far from an expert on bladed weapons, but what little he knew told him that Hunger swung his implement of murder with sublime skill. Yet there was a heaviness to every strike, a definition that stood out starkly against the drab canvas of the world. It felt more real than anything he had ever seen in his life.

Slowly the man wound down and stopped.

"She is one of the worst cases I have ever seen," came the clipped reply, "and I have seen a lot in my travels. If there ever was an anti-talent for magic of any kind, she fits the definition nigh perfectly."

Kos' heart sank, but Hunger continued blithely:

"Were you to ask anyone else in this city or even this country, if not this whole world, they would have been forced to refuse such a request even if they were willing to put in the time."

Kos parsed that statement, a smile threatening to split his face as he realized the hidden acknowledgement.

"So you can?.."

"Bring her here and we shall see."

Afterwards they'd stood before Hunger, Helen wringing her hands in apprehension as Kos only managed to convey the broad strokes, that Hunger wanted to teach her magic. She had only shaken her head in disbelief, the harsh lessons of a lifetime too difficult to dispel at once, but she followed him anyway.

"What I mean to show you," Hunger spoke, his tone the measured cadence of an experienced teacher, "is not for the faint of heart. It will be the hardest thing you have ever done, and will not get easier from there. The opposite of it, in fact. In return, the Work cares nothing for your talent and aptitude. The only thing that matters is how much effort you are willing to put in."

The.words should have sounded ridiculous, that there was such a magic that nobody ever heard about. But somehow Kos couldn't help but believe.

"If it will let me heal people," Helen answered without hesitation, all previous traces of of nervousness gone, "I am willing to do anything you require of me."

"It's not what I require, it's what the Art itself demands," he shrugged. "And it's quite unsuitable for healing spells. But you won't let that stop you, will you? In other aspects your gift for magic may be negligible, but your purity of thought is admirable."

"No," came the immediate reply. "As long as there's even the faintest possibility, I will not give up."

"What is possible?" Hunger mused. "Let that be the first lesson then. From now on what is or is not possible doesn't concern you. The only thing you need to ask yourself is how much you want something, and how far you are willing to go for it. I will show you a Rune of the Classical Form, so watch carefully. You will have to develop your own style and techniques, but this can serve as a reference..."
 
Update in 30-40.

Hunger scoffed. The drain of such an exertion might well kill him if unmitigated. The Forebear's Cut demanded enormous conviction; the Refinement of Quickness depleted him on a fundamental level. In combination they could render him an insensate vegetable. He could not allow irrational exuberance to dominate practicality, not utterly.

He'd not been idle as he thought, steadily plunging deeper into the Rotbeast's unchanging core. But neither had his opponent, the virulence and density of its poisons ever-increasing, now an opaque fog that bore down upon every inch of him with terrible ferocity, not just his extremities but his body entire a gruesome weeping sore.

Time was running out. Wildly he racked his mind for a solution, firing a pillar of Edeldross into which he stepped, increasing its density to his maximum output. The strain was enormous, his reserves quickly depleting. He would pay for it later, but later he'd be dead if things did not change. Too much depended on him. He could not fail now.
 
"What is possible?" Hunger mused. "Let that be the first lesson then. From now on what is or is not possible doesn't concern you. The only thing you need to ask yourself is how much you want something, and how far you are willing to go for it. I will show you a Rune of the Classical Form, so watch carefully. You will have to develop your own style and techniques, but this can serve as a reference..."

Nice, quite plausible as well. If Hunger got some bad Geass luck that landed him in a world that stripped him of many of his advances this seems like it could easily happen. I do wonder if we could try to teach someone Noble Praxis right now, or if we lack some permissions.
 
Nice, quite plausible as well. If Hunger got some bad Geass luck that landed him in a world that stripped him of many of his advances this seems like it could easily happen. I do wonder if we could try to teach someone Noble Praxis right now, or if we lack some permissions.
I don't believe Praxis has any permission requirements. It is forcing reality to listen, after all. I get the feeling a cursebearer with Imperial Praxis could tech a non-cursebearer Imperial praxis, as they would get a connection to the Accursed through the cursebearer. And the only reason Imperial requires a connection to the Accursed to begin with is because Royal is the limit before you need to have X strength to overcome the seemingly impassable barrier, and a connection with the Accursed piggybacks off him having installed a ladder. So rather than the Accursed pulling things up behind him, he left a path cut through it, making it far easier for those capable of following him exactly, which seems to require a connection with him.
 
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I don't believe Praxis has any permission requirements. It is forcing reality to listen, after all. I get the feeling a cursebearer with Imperial Praxis could tech a non-cursebearer Imperial praxis, as they would get a connection to the Accursed through the cursebearer. And the only reason Imperial requires a connection to the Accursed to begin with is because Royal is the limit before you need to have X strength to overcome the seemingly impassable barrier, and a connection with the Accursed piggybacks off him having installed a ladder.
Praxis works based on the deepest layer of reality that the Accursed know.
 
I remember we were told when Cut through was first being voted on that some parts of the Praxis require the Accursed to grant permission to access.
Imperial requires the Accursed to obtain, but as I edited in I'm pretty sure that is a matter of the Ontological weight to reach Imperial without using the path the Accursed carved is so high as to be unbreachable. Like other things that are "impossible" I suspect it can be done but to do so without a connection to him would be a Feat of infinite worth.
 
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