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A Simple Transaction I

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Shard said:
Are you sure the 50% pickup rate would actually improve? Sy(REDACTED)!

The marginal improvement in power has to compete with bloodboosted progression options, like what Exalted Spirit currently is.
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I mean, the fact that we still picked up Rank despite having access to blood-boosted progression makes me optimistic, it's not like it's chances wouldn't improve should we have Gleam.

And really, the very reason we are in this situation is that we wrote-in an Errantry option when it wasn't normally available. I think that's ample evidence of the interest people have in more Rank.
 
[X] Exalted Spirit [2 Arete]
[X] Cut Through

Voting for lower Heartlessness physically pains me. But this boosts our chances of successfully extricating Mizuku from the armor, since that's what everyone seems to have settled on, and costs much less. We'll have enough Arete to take Honing as our two-pick from social or physical victory over Mizuku this way, which gives as much Agility as Triumphal Gleam and synergizes well with the +Int & Wits of Exalted Spirit.
 
[X] Exalted Spirit
[X] Cut Through

Oh man, I duck out of the thread for a while cause of work and the questerbase has gone mad with Arete spending again. smh. Those are long hours down in the mines by writers and artists you're wasting, guys.

Attempt Diplomacy is an acceptable if distasteful spending of Arete for Mizuku, whose life I do value but not nearly as much as the value of 3 Arete. I'd be into the thematics of Hunger indulging in more heroism but the cost of it seems inefficient, particularly when Mizuku might not even be a companion. I can't rightly vote for Diplomacy when it both costs Arete and offers less Rank gains, particularly when we might have to give up tactically important information to save him.

Spending on Triumphal Gleam though is just crazy to me. We are so close to Trinity that blowing half of what we need to pick up that Special Advancement is completely ridiculous. There is an immense bounty of power and potential right around the corner and we're blowing our shot at it for what? More Rank gains we're not even going to pick? That's crazy.

I've voted for Feats in the past and they haven't won because their effects just aren't as shiny - do you think making the number go up will really make people vote for Rank? Of course not, the thread is ruled by blurbs and shiny descriptions. The only reason Gleam is so popular now is because it's a shiny, not because people actually intend to follow through and grab Rank. Throwing away Arete for some vaunted synergy that might not even be achieved because that requires consistency the thread simply lacks - is pretty much the definition of inefficiency in my opinion.

Gleam is in no way more valuable than Silver. It is absolutely not more compelling than Trinity. It's a good option but one that requires the thread to vote for things that I'm just not confident will win. Spending 9 Arete at this juncture when we can pick up Trinity in maybe 2 updates isn't justifiable.

Tactically voting for whatever will SAVE as much Arete as possible. Also phoneposting really sucks.
 
I don't know where this "we never pick Feats" meme is coming from. We pick Feats more consistently than any other option offered, maybe only less than blood options. Gleam only improves something we tend to do anyway. Plus it will be great help on our actual Geas task, especially since we can't mitigate Tyrant anymore. It's absolutely worth that 7 Arete.

We will pick more Rank, make no mistake, too many of our powers rely on it to not be so. Gleam will absolutely pay for itself, maybe even soon. And again, that's on top of the mitigation and social powers it offers. This isn't a random shiny, it's very good for our build. Picking this unique advancements now is a great opportunity we shouldn't pass on.
 
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[C] Seram Tier 0
[C] Brand of the Addled +2
[C] Geas of Indenture +2
[C] Doom of the Martyr +2
[C] The Curse of Misinformation +2
[C] The Eyes of Justice +2
[C] Brand of the Wretched +2
[C] Plenary Brand +2
[C] Geas of Exile +2
[C] Curse of the Brand +2
[C] Brand of the Champion +2
[C] Doom of the Tyrant +2
[C] Pendant's Doom +1
[C] Brand of the Seer +1
[C] Brand of the Phoenix +1
[C] The Decimator's Affliction +2
=+27

[C] Sorcerer's Apprentice -1
[C] Penny Dreadful -1
[C] Imperial Praxis -6
[C] Staff -1
[C] The Ring -1
[C] The Robe -1
[C] The Grimoire -1
[C] Game Magic -3
[C] Luck Magic -3
[C] The Logos -3
[C] Nothing Magic -6 Magic Progression

=-27

BEHOLD! The ultimate antisocial build! Essentially has to preemptively murder everyone it comes in contact with or it risks being forced into helpless slavery! It also can't stay in the same place for long because of Decimator and can't return to places it's left because of Exile! However in return for taking a truly ludicrous number of curses it's has max magic skills and can use the logos, nothing and the praxis to do pretty much anything. Game Magic means it's not helpless from the get go and Luck magic keeps it from dying before it relentlessly outscales the rest of existence.

It still takes Penny Dreadful as an apprentice to not go crazy from isolation. Prosselarch was probably a better choice of ally but I'd have to give up the Robe to afford him. Hopefully Penny doesn't mind a bit of preemptive genocide.

Edit: Switched out Nothing for Progression after I realised that the build is a combat cursebearer without it.
 
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BrainInAJar said:
I don't know where this "we never pick Feats" meme is coming from. We pick Feats more consistently than any other option offered, maybe only less than blood options.
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Hell, Inheritor was largely picked so we can train rank along with feats.

I'm starting to think people are so tied up in the idea that their one of the few shining examples of intellectuals in a sea of morons that continually drag the quest from disaster to disaster that all would have been avoided if they had listened to them in order to feel, I dunno? Smart? Good about themselves? So they have to come up with all these narratives and rewrite history to justify them.

It's good for people to remember you don't need to call everyone else a moron to make yourself stand out and have people respect your opinions.
 
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[X] Triumphal Gleam [7 Arete]
[X] Cut Through

ah well, I am a big fan of Rank, so... betrayal time I guess.
Perhaps we can get the mental stats later
 
A part of rulership, reflected across centuries and styles and leaders and ideologies across the world and worlds, fictional and non.
With notable and admirable exceptions, a population gets ornery and irritated whenever the tax/tithe/protection burden increases on them even slightly in order to pay for public necessities like better healthcare or improved education for the society at large.

People grumble about societal infrastructure having any sort of price tag even if it's literally physical infrastructure they'll end up using every day for 50 years. That's not to say that their money/goods/taxes/services aren't quite often spent frivolously! Or that they don't often have good reasons to grumble because each and every tax and levy on them is a compromise not made by shining paragons but between someone who wants something and someone or something that very much wants something else.

But.
But.
There are more than a few leaders and bureaucrats and well meaning well prepared well working folk who would, I dunno, wistfully consider killing more than a few people? If the populace they were trying to convince to do something like invest a little more into education for children would be happy with that despite the slight increase in cost, while retaining their dislike of spending the same money on a fancy transport instead of treating both near equally. "People really do care about the good you do" is something a lot of people in charge would just love to have.
 
Talace said:
It means they'll probably stack! Redundant effects either cover for each others' deficiencies, or add in strength! Beyond that, World's mitigation considers Tyrannical behavior as "natural" while Gleam prevents its spread!
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They'll definitely stack. But we don't need to waste arete on a problem we've already solved. It's just not an efficient use of arete anymore, just like King Stands Alone is a waste now that we have Hero Defeating Stance.
 
Talace said:
It means they'll probably stack! Redundant effects either cover for each others' deficiencies, or add in strength! Beyond that, World's mitigation considers Tyrannical behavior as "natural" while Gleam prevents its spread!
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They're less redundant and more complementary effects, with good PR magnifying the penitent dodge consequences effect. Whether it's worth the cost is a different question. It might mean we no longer need to invest time/actions in propaganda choices, as I assume that's where the rank gain is coming from. So it could save a good bit of time in the future potentially.
 
Enohthree said:
A part of rulership, reflected across centuries and styles and leaders and ideologies across the world and worlds, fictional and non.
With notable and admirable exceptions, a population gets ornery and irritated whenever the tax/tithe/protection burden increases on them even slightly in order to pay for public necessities like better healthcare or improved education for the society at large.

People grumble about societal infrastructure having any sort of price tag even if it's literally physical infrastructure they'll end up using every day for 50 years. That's not to say that their money/goods/taxes/services aren't quite often spent frivolously! Or that they don't often have good reasons to grumble because each and every tax and levy on them is a compromise not made by shining paragons but between someone who wants something and someone or something that very much wants something else.

But.
But.
There are more than a few leaders and bureaucrats and well meaning well prepared well working folk who would, I dunno, wistfully consider killing more than a few people? If the populace they were trying to convince to do something like invest a little more into education for children would be happy with that despite the slight increase in cost, while retaining their dislike of spending the same money on a fancy transport instead of treating both near equally. "People really do care about the good you do" is something a lot of people in charge would just love to have.
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Yeah, this is a huge boon to our main goal, which at the end of the day is conquering a incredible amount of territory that Hunger just feasibly can't personally administrate and occupy himself with any power that we've seen. This sort of stuff would be a god send for the actual ruling the territory we conquer and not facing backlash from the wars we need to fight.
 
Sara said:
Hell, Inheritor was largely picked so we can train rank along with feats.

I'm starting to think people are so tied up in the idea that their one of the few shining examples of intellectuals in a sea of morons that continually drag the quest from disaster to disaster that all would have been avoided if they had listened to them in order to feel, I dunno? Smart? Good about themselves? So they have to come up with all these narratives and rewrite history to justify them.

It's good for people to remember you don't need to call everyone else a moron to make yourself stand out and have people respect your opinions.
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I'd object to this characterization but then I realized, I really do think of the thread as being full of morons on several occasions so that's a moot point. It'd probably be healthier for Hunger for this to be a story than a quest. On the other hand, my natural instinct is vote for the Red Option and anything with the higher risk of death cause it's more interesting to me that way, so a great deal of charm from these quests is actually due to quester 'idiocy' in that sense! I'd even say I'm proud to be a moron! :V

More seriously, I don't think that there's an actual sentiment that opposing voters think of the rest of the thread as morons? Obviously, in any SALT-driven debate, there is a degree of hyperbole and exaggeration involved but I've never particularly felt any strong of resentment being involved in votes. Perhaps my earlier posts seem curt but that's the effect of posting on the internet. Tone rarely carries through text.

I personally feel the thread has spent Arete extremely freely though. Picking up Stances, Inherit, even the Praxis to some extent (though I maintain ever-faithful to PRAXIS) was kind of inefficient in terms of Arete cost to me but that's just cause I feel not building towards EFBs is really a missed opportunity. Overall though, I'm not particularly troubled by other voters. Everyone votes in accordance to thematics and what they value anyway so it's not exactly a huge deal to me. I did want to just express some degree of frustration in relation to Arete spending, because I think this is just a good time to SAVE for future returns, hence the reason for my earlier posts.

Just to explain my position in regards to the quest.
 
LordOfMurder said:
We already have pseudo Tyrant mitigation in World this just does more of the same thing.
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They do different things, and it's very hard to run out of efficiency in suppressing a Curse. The moment we actually start interacting a lot with wider society, it is going to be strained like crazy - therefore, reducing the consequences of the procs is quite valuable.
 
Kurowari said:
I'd object to this characterization but then I realized, I really do think of the thread as being full of morons on several occasions so that's a moot point. It'd probably be healthier for Hunger for this to be a story than a quest.
Kurowari said:
On the other hand, my natural instinct is vote for the Red Option and anything with the higher risk of death cause it's more interesting to me that way, so a great deal of charm from these quests is actually due to quester 'idiocy' in that sense! I'd even say I'm proud to be a moron! :V
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More seriously, I don't think that there's an actual sentiment that opposing voters think of the rest of the thread as morons? Obviously, in any SALT-driven debate, there is a degree of hyperbole and exaggeration involved but I've never particularly felt any strong of resentment being involved in votes. Perhaps my earlier posts seem curt but that's the effect of posting on the internet. Tone rarely carries through text.

I personally feel the thread has spent Arete extremely freely though. Picking up Stances, Inherit, even the Praxis to some extent (though I maintain ever-faithful to PRAXIS) was kind of inefficient in terms of Arete cost to me but that's just cause I feel not building towards EFBs is really a missed opportunity. Overall though, I'm not particularly troubled by other voters. Everyone votes in accordance to thematics and what they value anyway so it's not exactly a huge deal to me. I did want to just express some degree of frustration in relation to Arete spending, because I think this is just a good time to SAVE for future returns, hence the reason for my earlier posts.

Just to explain my position in regards to the quest.
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That's fair! We all sound harsher to the opposing side then we want too when dealing with a rough debate. Everyone does it, including me whose said way harsher stuff then anything in your posts. Fwiw, wasn't try to single you out in that either, or even this particular thread. It's something naturally going to come up a lot in a quests.

Kurowari said:
On the other hand, my natural instinct is vote for the Red Option and anything with the higher risk of death cause it's more interesting to me that way, so a great deal of charm from these quests is actually due to quester 'idiocy' in that sense! I'd even say I'm proud to be a moron! :V
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This is extremely relatable, I'm the exact same way half the time xD
 
agumentic said:
They do different things, and it's very hard to run out of efficiency in suppressing a Curse. The moment we actually start interacting a lot with wider society, it is going to be strained like crazy - therefore, reducing the consequences of the procs is quite valuable.
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The whole point of World is that it doesn't matter if it gets strained, if it triggers and Hunger beats the crap out of someone with Edeldross because of it, people will just accept that as a perfectly reasonable reaction. If we don't want to trigger it at all just get Gisena to talk to people for us! She won't even charge us arete for the pleasure.
 
I consider Gleam to be close to Unique. How often are we going to be coming off a major victory, have Arete to spend, and not spend it on something we get from the picks of that major victory?
 
Sickul said:
I consider Gleam to be close to Unique. How often are we going to be coming off a major victory, have Arete to spend, and not spend it on something we get from the picks of that major victory?
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the question isn't whether we can get it later, it's whether it's worth the cost. We will constantly be offered enticing options; look to what we can do, not what we can't.
 
LordOfMurder said:
The whole point of World is that it doesn't matter if it gets strained, if it triggers and Hunger beats the crap out of someone with Edeldross because of it, people will just accept that as a perfectly reasonable reaction. If we don't want to trigger it at all just get Gisena to talk to people for us! She won't even charge us arete for the pleasure.
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"Reduced" penalties does not mean "non-existent". Beating up people in positions of power is still a pretty major faux pas, and everything that helps us avoid it and reduces the consequences of it when it happens is important.
 
LordOfMurder said:
The whole point of World is that it doesn't matter if it gets strained, if it triggers and Hunger beats the crap out of someone with Edeldross because of it, people will just accept that as a perfectly reasonable reaction. If we don't want to trigger it at all just get Gisena to talk to people for us! She won't even charge us arete for the pleasure.
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You're overselling the effect of Penitent here. If Hunger gets triggered and kills his way up the ranks of a government a halving of people's view of the severity isn't actually enough to make people think it was reasonable. With the PR of gleam though it's much more easily interpreted as overthrowing an unjust regime or something similar (assuming there's some basis at least).

On the regime change note it's a bit funny but assuming we put Aeira's family in control of Elixir we'll have started something of a trend, might even culminate with the Empire...
 
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Sickul said:
I consider Gleam to be close to Unique. How often are we going to be coming off a major victory, have Arete to spend, and not spend it on something we get from the picks of that major victory?
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Better question : How much should we prize uniquecity as a value? We will assuredly get unique and time limited options near every vote. Gardener's Hallow, Wreath, etc
 
Well I wasn't just saying because it's unique. It's also really good. But picks are sometimes in short supply, taking it here while there's not anything else amazing could be a good idea.

I for one didn't realize the actual cost of things like Ruling Ring. Yeah, you can buy it piecemeal, but it takes up a bunch of picks to do so.
 
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