A Second Sunrise: Taiwan of 2020 Sent Back to 1911

What would be a good name for the rewrite?

  • Children of Heaven

    Votes: 3 30.0%
  • A Hundred Years' Difference

    Votes: 6 60.0%
  • Sun and Stars

    Votes: 1 10.0%
  • The Second Sunrise

    Votes: 3 30.0%
  • (Just call it Second Sunrise but make sure nobody refers to it as "SS")

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    10
  • Poll closed .
Okay, quick rundown:

The MSS agents were able to travel to the mainland by smuggling themselves on a fishing boat, the traveling onto the mainland via a raft.

This, in addition to having their leader infiltrate Taiwan's own intelligence agency and rising through the ranks allows them a lot of leeway.

Nobody's going to bat an eye when a fishing boat goes out to fish, especially when they need all the manpower they can get due to the heavier-reliance on seafood for meat.

This, coupled with the chaos of the Great Journey, as they call it, gives them a lot of leeway to flee.

As for the rest of the world, the spread of information is something that happened slowly, but is getting out. The Tsar, for example, knows of his fate in our history, and he pushed for European leaders to schedule a "Conference of Copenhagen" to prevent the fall of their empires and the subsequent rise of Communism.

As for colonialism, if the Chinese are successful (and they probably will be), it is likely that they will be seen as the place to be for anti-colonialist support, given that there were revolutionaries in our time who saw the country as a springboard for their own efforts, such as Phan Boi Chau and Cuong De.

Will Republican China support revolutions in Asia? Well… maybe not them, but Marty, Rachel, and co. might try some shenanigans over the border and drag some people in.

Siam, for example, almost had a revolution in 1912 to kill the king and create a monarchy,

As for Africa, well, it's a bit far away, but you could see some African independence activists turning to China for training and guns. To which they might agree or disagree depending on relations with said colonial overlord.

Right now, their main focus on colonialism will be Asia in general and the Treaty Ports in particular.

As for Hitler, well, there's a good chance the Kaiser is gunning for him. And Kaiser Wilhelm isn't the only one

But countries like Russia and Germany almost certainly have preemptive kill lists.
 
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Yeah, that's not really something that people were trying to prevent from happening.

Mostly because it's really, really hard to prevent 20 million people from sharing information with the various people who are coming and going as traders dealing with imports and exports, as well as diplomats who work the embassies.

Remember that even in its early state, Taiwan has diplomats in places such as Indonesia, America, and Australia.

They don't have the resources to monitor and enforce a complete communications blackout.

We're talking an entire operation of spying on your own population that even the Stasi would think is too much.

As for how it got to Moscow and Berlin, probably telegraph.

Of course, there is the issue of blueprints and the like getting out, but it would take the better part of a decade for Britain to reverse-engineer and start producing something like an assault rifle based on blueprints.

Even longer for more complicated weapons.
 
Once the Japanese after-glow wears off, the Imperial Powers are going to suddenly realize that Taiwan, the most advanced nation in the world, will soon essentially have conquered the entirety of the Qing Empire. Hundreds of Millions of Chinese and the vast, untapped resources under its soil, and a seemingly revolutionary liberal nation will suddenly make the leading empires very nervous about their own power. First this nation appears, in less than a year it begins a revolution in China seemingly overnight then begins dismantling Japans possessions as well. I assume when the ROC denies the unequal treaties after taking down the Qing the European powers will realize how big a threat China will become. With the Great War seemingly avoided (maybe) they might find solace in a bigger enemy to unite against, as the European Monarchies will work long and hard to entrap and limit the ROC's influence before they become Asia's, possibly the worlds dominant power.
 
I assume when the ROC denies the unequal treaties after taking down the Qing the European powers will realize how big a threat China will become. With the Great War seemingly avoided (maybe) they might find solace in a bigger enemy to unite against, as the European Monarchies will work long and hard to entrap and limit the ROC's influence before they become Asia's, possibly the worlds dominant power.

Depends on the specific treaties.

Treaties such as the Treaty of Tianjin, which allows for extraterritoriality, are likely to be abandoned unilaterally by the ROC. However, specific terms, such as allowing for foreign trade, are almost certainly going to be maintained. The permitting of Christianity itself would likely be allowed as well, seeing that Sun and other prominent figures are Christian.

Foreigners themselves would likely have to live and behave under ROC law, but seeing that Taiwan itself is a largely "Modern" nation, it is likely that such laws would be reasonable. That said, it might piss some people off to lose certain diplomatic immunities.

But a big stickler is going to be the opium trade, which was legalized in the Treaty of Tianjin.

Yeah, the ROC is going to crack down on that. Hard. Of course, the reaction of each country would likely depend on who's doing the importing.

America? Yeah, I don't think they're doing is going to bother them that much. But Britain, the people who were responsible for opium being a problem in the first place? Oh boy are there going to be some angry merchants.

Meanwhile, the Boxer Protocol, much of which is largely expired by 1911, would have terms such as the Legation Quarter stripped of their extraterritoriality (though this would likely be due to everyone getting the Hell out if the ROC gets to Beijing). However, the consolation would be the creation of an "Embassy Row" in Nanjing (the presumed capital), with the usual provisions that a modern embassy enjoys (basically being considered territory of the embassy's owners).

In general, I imagine the ROC would be more than happy to open their ports to foreign trade. Free trade is kind of the status quo in Taiwan already, and China can quickly outproduce many of the European countries in certain industries such as steel. I'll have to look for the data, but I remember reading that Taiwan today produces a similar amount of steel to Britain about a hundred years ago.

Tariffs will likely need to be renegotiated, but I imagine that would be one of the less contentious issues and could be negotiated in due time.

Couple that with an effective monopoly on several products (vehicles, computers, radios, medicine, tea, and the like), and I believe that opening up even more ports would benefit China more than the Europeans.

If I'm being honest, the Europeans and Americans don't really have that much that China would want, besides raw goods (iron, oil, etc) that the Chinese haven't been able to extract in decent amounts or can't extract.

Manufactured goods? Well, I guess they be sold as antiques in Taiwan.

Guns? Museum pieces. I heard Colonel Chen is likely to be the newest donor to Taipei's museums.

Now, how would countries react to the ROC's intention to renegotiate or abandon several of the Unequal Treaties? It would likely depend on the nation.

The United States, for example, seeing a revolutionary liberal nation that is led by people who really like the United States and are one of their newest trade partners, might be more willing to renegotiate, as their possessions in the area largely consist of a few autonomous settlements and the legation they would likely have abandoned and would soon be replaced with an embassy in Nanjing. They may be more-willing to accept terms in exchange for trade. For that cost, it would be a decent price to pay for advances in technology, medicine, and modern goods, as well as a potential ally against the Japanese.

Of course, there will be people in the US who would raise a fuss over this, but that would likely be compensated with either shares in new companies or outright payment.

But I imagine that resistance to renegotiation is directly proportional to how much a country has to lose in what is an "Overnight Superpower." I started with America for example, since I am American they have the least to lose.

But a country like Russia, who basically kicked China while it was down during the Taiping Rebellion to take Outer Manchuria in the 1858 Treaty of Aigun and the 1860 Convention of Peking? Well, Chinese people in our history's 1920s already declared it an Unequal Treaty, so it is likely that the ROC is going to want it back.

Not to mention that they would very much like foreign troops to get the hell off their land and for foreign warships to leave.

And unlike America, Russia has its troops out there in force. Okay, maybe not foreign warships after Japan exploded their Pacific fleet, but you get the idea.

That's going to be a problem, and that is before we get to the fact that Tsar Nikolai II is actively plotting to try to snap off Xinjiang, Mongolia, and Manchuria while the Qing are busy (oddly enough, similar to how they got Outer Manchuria in 1858), as if he's playing Kaiserreich for Darkest Hour (when there used to be decisions to do that if you were playing as Russia). While the ROC may be stretched out, Russia would be sending troops to the other side of Siberia, which will make supplying them and supporting them a hassle...

And that's assuming nobody sabotages the Trans-Siberian Railroad.

As for the "Big Three" (Germany, France, and Great Britain), I imagine that they are going to be unhappy that the Chinese would want the new concessions that they gained less than two decades ago. The ROC would obviously want them, and I imagine that the Big Three would want to ride out their leases for the next century.

These three are going to be a bigger hassle. While Russia is on the other side of Eurasia (with a rebuilding Pacific fleet and a Baltic fleet that is historically run by stupid people), and Japan is likely going to get their asses kicked if they try anything funny ever again, these three actually pose a decent threat.

Out of the three of them, Germany is likely (and ironically) the weakest. While the Kaiserliche Marine is formidable, they face a severe case of "On the Other Side of the Planet Syndrome." That said, they do have a decent amount of possessions in the Pacific that they can use as a jumping-off point, and the ROC doesn't really have that much amphibious warfare capacity on the grounds of the Marines ramming their makeshift landing craft into the shore of Guangzhou to land there.

Sure, they could try to invade Eastern Papua, but that would take a literal year, so that might be less-than ideal.

France, in the meantime, is the second-strongest. Sure, the German Army is stronger on land and the Royal Navy is the strongest Navy on the planet, but France has French Indochina as a jumping-off point. While I'm sure that Agent Li and Agent Fong are probably coming up with some very funny plan to liberate Indochina, likely in the form of convincing "volunteers" to jump the border and go "General Sherman" while rebel troops who happen to be suspiciously well-armed start a rebellion, China doesn't really have the force projection outside of Zhanjiang.

Could the ROC take it? Sure, it's literally on their border and they could likely take it over in a week.

But a land war in Indochina would likely ensue.

Last but not least is the British Empire, who in addition to having the Royal Navy, have a massive empire around the world that could boycott China. Which, while they don't really need the British for trade, I imagine Sun would almost certainly like to be on good terms with them.

That said, they have the most concessions out of almost any country, and I'd imagine that the ROC would want it back. All of them.

How this would unfold, well, we'll cross that bridge when we get there. But I imagine that the ROC doesn't want to go toe-to-toe with the Royal Navy for the foreseeable future, at least until they can build more than a dozen ships.

As for your last point about the Great War likely being avoided, it is likely that the Conference of Copenhagen will likely be held to prevent such a conflict. While I doubt that Europe as a whole would ally together (for many, many reasons), I do believe that the European powers would see the ROC as a threat to their colonial possessions and actively try to not weaken each other. While they would like to carve the country up into pieces, I imagine that they wouldn't be that effective in practice.

That said, they likely see China as a threat to their colonial empires. Here is a country with a massive population, an exponentially-rocketing industrial base, as well as the nation serving as a symbol of anti-Imperialism (and more importantly, anti-Monarchism).

Here is a country that basically spits on every justification of colonialism (from rights, to technology, to even religion), and they have every reason to fear that their own revolution could happen in their colonial possessions, and that it may come from China itself. Or at least the revolutionaries who flock to the ROC once the Chinese Republicans win.

However, it will likely not be China vs. the World. Not everyone is going to see China as a threat. In fact, many may see it as an ally, a potential trading partner, and a means of modernization.

I've already mentioned the United States likely being very favorable to the ROC, and I should add that is also partially due to their one colonial possession, the Philippines, being a place that they planned to get out of sooner or later, after a transition period. Having an China that is modernized and very friendly to them will, in all likelihood, actually speed up decolonization in the Philippines.

Meanwhile, the Ottomans are likely to have little reason to want to screw over China. Why would they see China as a threat when they don't have any possessions or colonies in Asia? If anything, the Chinese may be seen as a model for the Ottomans to work with, a trading partner and a seller of machinery and weapons, and a willing partner in modernization of their society as a whole.

The same could be said of the Italians, Belgians, and the Austro-Hungarians. All three nations have only legations in Tianjin that they'll probably vacate when the Revolutionaries close in on the area. But at the same time, they also don't have concessions that the Chinese would want back, which makes them potential trade partners. Oh, and while Belgium does have the Congo (and I'm sure the ROC would like to liberate that, like, 20 years down the road), I don't think Belgium is going to be worried about China trying to start a revolution there.

Portugal, for their part, is going to be a bit more iffy, on account of Macau. Sure, they also had their own revolution the previous year (and I don't think that they would have any real means to respond), but I imagine that the ROC would likely try to negotiate for the island back.

Which, given their stronger position on the mainland, likely gives them a good amount of leverage, even if Britain backs Portugal. That said, the ROC would probably just try to buy the island from them with a trade deal, medical support, or currency.

So in short, the Uneven Treaties will likely be undone, but it depends on the specific terms of each treaty. Extraterritoriality, stationing of troops, opium, and having Chinese land are likely to be rejected, but the ROC would likely be open to free trade, renegotiated tariffs, as well as Christianity.

Maybe not the Evangelicals, if they get kinda weird about it, but for the most part even they should be fine, I imagine.

But yes, I imagine that with China being a quickly-rising power, countries and peoples will have different reactions.

Colonial powers in Asia would see them as a threat, while non-colonial powers would see them as a trading partner, ally, or means of modernization.

As for colonized or subjugated peoples, whether they be Africans, Malays, Indians, Koreans, Poles, Ukrainians, Finns, or Baltic peoples, China may be seen as a symbol of independence and anti-imperialism.

But first, China will have to rebuild to get there, and that may take the better part of a decade.
 
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I just found it and love the premise. One minor criticism is that you have your timeline Philippine History slightly wrong. You mention the Commonwealth of the Philippines in one of your previous chapter and the transition period of leaving the Philippines but that didn't happen yet as the act that created the Commonwealth was passed in 1934. There were of course calls to leave the Philippines in 1911 and a few legislative attempts to give them autonomy but currently the entity that administers the Philippines is the Insular Government of the Philippine Islands.
 
Whole history books leaked out? I'd love some reactions to that. What about Taiwan's currency and exchange rate?
Taiwan is small country, so they must have some missing industries that they have textbooks to use as a base for development.
 
Specific history books? Probably not anything in particular. Rather, it's usually some diplomat or another sending back important information, as snail mail is pretty slow. Honestly, it wouldn't so much be a history book as a bunch of printouts of Wikipedia in their language of choice.

As for the currency, it will likely continue to be the New Taiwan Dollar (TWD), which is expected to be renamed the New China Dollar (NCD) upon declaration of victory. Current trade is largely done through resources themselves and trading with currency reserves, given the world's lack of fiat currency. That said, there are post-1949 statutes that say that the Taiwanese dollar is pegged to the Silver Yuan at a rate of one Silver Yuan to 3 Taiwanese Dollars, which does allow for a de-facto non-fiat currency.

Given this, it is reasonable to assume that Taiwan is currently minting new Silver Dollars for the purpose of foreign trade, which we'll call Chinese Silver Dollars (CSD) at an exchange rate of 3 TWD/NCD to 1 CSD.

If we are to assume that a Tael to Spanish Dollar (Piece of 8) exchange rate of 1900 is maintained at 1.38 Spanish Dollars, and the CSD and the Spanish Dollar are interchangeable, then the exchange rate of 1 Tael to TWD/NCD would be exchanged at a rate of 4.14 Taels to 1 TWD/NCD.

As for missing industries, Taiwan is fairly self-sufficient, with their primary import being crude oil, wood, and raw iron, as well as other raw materials. In general, they have industries ranging from computer chips (which are likely furloughed for the time being due to a lack of rare earth materials and their skunkworks trying to find ways to keep their machines running), automobiles, textiles, shipbuilding, fishing, agriculture, and the like.

From what I can tell, they seem to have a "Little bit of everything" as a result of being a technically-unrecognized nation, but they do have the means to reverse-engineer anything that they need built.

That, or blueprints, I imagine.

One such example is the aviation industry, which is working towards building new helicopters and aircraft, rather than just maintaining what they have. Given enough time and resources (as well as government support), I could see them managing to build entire AH-1 Cobras in a few years, instead of just building spare parts.

A lot of adapting industries is involved, using existing industries as a foundation for other industries.

Of course, a big issue will be training new workers, but the technical knowledge is there.

The issue is training people for it.
 
Chapter 17: A Journey to the West, North, and Far East
Urga, Province of Mongolia, Qing Empire, 20 August 1911

Sando looked at the message in his office from the Khalkha Mongols, then glanced at the latest telegram from Beijing.

Despite the lack of news from Beijing, rumors had even made their way up here. That Sun Yat-Sen had led an uprising in the South, and that the 'Republic of China' had invaded Shanghai itself.

For a while, he had been worried that something similar would have occurred here as well, only for the Russian diplomats present to reassure him that no, they were advocating for greater autonomy, not independence.

This would set back the resettlement plans by a few years. A decade, if he was unlucky.

Sure enough, the Khalkha nobles had sent a demand to his office, offering four thousand troops to the Qing in exchange for autonomy.

Were it his decision, he'd take it. If things were half as bad as they sounded down south, Yuan needed all the help he could get, and Beijing seemed to agree.

"Send word to the nobles," he said to the aide, "We'll accept their deal."

He'd have plenty of time to colonize Mongolia once this rebellion was stomped out.

Ürümqi, Xinjiang Province, Qing Empire

Yang Zengxin stood before his men at the parade grounds. Rumors of rebels had turned up nothing but empty dust in the wind.

Still, that had been enough to send Governor Yuan Dahua packing, but he had had the decency to leave his men behind.

"The governor has abandoned us, but I will not abandon this province. Will you?"

"No!" his men shouted together, standing at attention all the while.

That's what he liked to hear. Unlike those snakes to the east, he and his men had no intention of overthrowing the Qing.

"Good. Our duty is to the Emperor, and our duty is to hold Xinjiang from the rebels. Until our duty is finished, we will live here. We will fight here. And if the Heavens demand it, we will die here, fighting!"

As if on cue, he felt a piercing sensation in his chest.

Or at least what was left of it when he collapsed to the ground.

Though he would never see it, the incoming rebels would make sure that his men joined him.

Office of the Prime Minister, Tokyo, Empire of Japan

Life in Tokyo had seemed normal. Or what passed for normal, as long as you weren't part of the Tarō cabinet for the last few months.

Between the failing health of the Emperor and the protests in the streets, they had been walking a tightrope between militarism and pragmatism.

"We cannot declare another war," Admiral Tōgō advised. "The Navy will need decades to reconstruct itself."

"Of course..." Katsura grumbled. "With that damned treaty."

Militarist though he was, there was almost nothing standing between the Chinese Republicans and the Home Islands. And what little they did have was spent keeping the Russians at bay.

"Perhaps we can send weapons," offered Terauchi Masatake. "While we have promised peace with the Republicans, the agreement does not place any prohibitions on supplies, or even volunteers."

"In fact," the man continued, "perhaps we could deploy men as a sort of 'Intervention Force,' similar to what was done during the Boxer Rebellion."

"And in return?" Asked Prime Minister Katsura, "if we are to antagonize these Republicans, we ought to benefit as well."

"Perhaps some demands with regard to Manchuria?" Terauchi offered. "In their reduced state, the Qing would have no position to object."

"Very well," the Prime Minister agreed. "And if they lose, we will have the perfect opportunity to seize Manchuria."

"Do we have the manpower?" The Admiral's question was less of that and more of an accusation. "Because we almost certainly lack the military transport capacity."

"Civilian ships will be more than sufficient," Terauchi pointed out. "And as our diplomats have learned, the Republican navy, while effective, is very small. More importantly, their aircraft are likely out of range of our home islands, which should prevent any repeat of the Imperial Japanese Navy's previous failure."

"The transport of men and equipment to the Korean Peninsula can be justified as a reinforcement of already-owned territories," the Admiral admitted. "But I would argue against an outright intervention if we do not have enough manpower in the field."

"Three hundred thousand men should be more than enough," Terauchi insisted, turning to the Prime Minister. "Quantity has a quality of its own, it seems. Plus, the tenacity of the Japanese soldier on land is likely to win us the day, just as it had against the Manchus and the Russians."

"Then it is settled," Katsura decided. "Make the necessary preparations. I will handle any and all formalities."

The Trans-Siberian Railroad, Location Unknown, Russian Empire

To put it mildly, it was an ambitious plan.

To put it bluntly, General Brusilov thought it was insane, but he dare not insult the Tsar to his face.

Still, he had his work cut out for himself. He would take this army of his along the Trans-Siberian railroad, assume command of troops in the Far East, and intervene in the region in the name of "Regional Stabilization."

Could he do it? Well, he certainly had the numbers. That much was true.

But at the same time, he'd heard the news coming from Asia, of how the Imperial Japanese Navy was sunk in a single night.

If a nation were to win so handily at sea, what would they be able to do on land?

Though as far as he was concerned, he didn't know. What he did know was that the Qing would likely roll over, just as they did during the Boxer Rebellion.

After which the Russians would either annex the region outright, or assert their influence as the Qing's protector.

Of course, he had no illusions that this was anything other than a cynical landgrab, similar to what happened half a century ago in Outer Manchuria.

Only this time, there were three armies headed that way, towards Xinjiang, towards Mongolia, and his headed towards Manchuria.

It would be a while until he'd arrive there. A whole month, at the earliest.

But he had an objective to capture, and he intended to take it.

Could he? That was the question.

Over two hundred thousand men would be under his command, including the Russians already guarding the railways.

If the rumors were to be true, it is likely that they would outnumber either the Chinese or the Japanese in the area.

Of course, he would rather not fight in the first place, hence the sheer number of men he had.

The Russian Steamroller may be slow, but once it started rolling, it would be hard to stop it.

Beiyang Army Headquarters, Beijing, Qing Empire, 22 August 1911

"I trust that you had a safe trip?"

"Yeah, I could get used to something like that," the warlord told him. "My men are ready to fight these Republicans."

"It is good to have you here, Zhang Zuolin. Prove yourself to me, and the Empire will owe you an immeasurable debt."

Wuchang Air Base, Wuchang, Hubei Province, Republic of China, 30 August 1911

"Air Base" was a very generous term for what this was, as Shannon Wu observed. "Dirt field that we flattened by air-dropping a bulldozer with fuel" would be more appropriate, at least for the first day.

The next day saw a parade of C-130s going by, landing with everything from fuel supplies, to construction equipment, to everything they needed to build a tarmac, then taking off once again.

After that came the engineers and the construction crew, who got in their vehicles and started laying every layer and tamping it down over the next week, then building makeshift hangars off to the side.

Then came the final fixtures, from radio equipment to towers that were assembled in the next half week. After all, a pilot was nothing without their ground crew and support team.

At least this time, they all got similar accommodations, even if said accomodations were "Hastily made prefab structures."

Still, she was impressed that they'd managed to make it work over the span of two weeks from "Empty field you could maybe land a C-130 on," to "Hastily built to code military airstrip."

Now, it may have taken almost every C-130 they (and their Singaporean countrymen) had that wasn't dedicated to round-the-clock support missioms.

But they made it work. Through stubbornness, if nothing else.

And what did they have to show for it?

Another jet roared overhead as it circled the airfield, ready for another landing.

Off in the distance, she could see the KC-130 flying in to refill the tanks, followed by what looked like a cargo 747.

That, of all things, put a smile on her face.

Ever since the Great Journey, the pilots who have been stranded here had been the hardest hit.

Not only were they trapped in a foreign land (even if they were granted citizenship), but they were foreigners who came here without their families.

And to add salt onto the wound, they were pilots stuck on the ground. Citizenship and furloughed wages were nice, but if there was one thing every pilot wanted to do, it was fly.

But this, this was practically a dream come true for a lot of them.

"Huh. Looks like they are circling back," a voice observed from the bar. Shannon turned around to see a woman she'd seen around the base. Probably uptimer. "The pilots like to do that, don't they?"

"It comes with being grounded for months," Shannon told her, with a bit of a sigh. "Poor guys have probably had it the hardest out of all of us after we all got sent back."

"Air travel did basically stop overnight," the woman recalled. "Well, except for military pilots like yourself."

"Yeah, I'm one of the lucky ones," Shannon figured. "Probably helps that I don't need a paved surface to land."

"Oh, that's why Taipei was so insistent on building this as fast as humanly possible."

"Were you part of the construction crew?"

"Me? No, I work in Intelligence. I'm embedded with the 66th Marines."

"Michael's unit?"

"Oh, you know the Colonel?"

"Chen?" The woman nodded to Shannon. "Yes, he and I go back a bit."

"Let me guess? Childhood friend?"

"No, that's Marty. Ex-boyfriend."

"Ah." the woman flashed her a sad smile. "Sorry to hear about that."

"It's fine. We both wanted to focus on our careers instead of a relationship set up between our parents. Great guy, but a better friend than partner. A bit reckless, though."

"He did ram a floating barge into the shore," the woman recalled. "After having it dragged across the Strait."

"That sounds like him, alright."

"But enough about the Colonel. Mind if I buy you a drink?"

"Can't-"

"Oh. Sorry, didn't know you weren't-"

"No, not that. I have to prep for another mission. Dragon Squadron's getting called in for air support."

"Ah. Well, maybe another time, then."

"Sure."

Forward Operating Base Xinyang, Henan Province, Republic of China

"Wow." That was all Martin Li could say at the sight before him. Tanks, APCs, Humvees, trucks, artillery, and thousands of men had joined them, just waiting for the order to push further north. "Army doesn't mess around, do they?"

"That's what happens when you get all the funding, Marty," Michael chuckled. "Yet they still send me in, first."

"Army can't swim, Mike. Plus, somebody has to sweep up after your messes."

"Hey, not my fault that tank beats everything that Shannon doesn't blow up."

"No, that is quite literally your fault, Mike. Especially when you keep insisting on being in the vanguard despite, y'know, being the commander?"

"Not like I have that much a choice, Marty. We don't really have a command vehicle that works, and I got promoted by virtue of my boss basically dying."

"Not existing."

"You get the idea."

"Says the guy who rammed a barge into the beach."

"That was one time, Marty. And it worked, didn't it?"

"I think you're a bit too reckless, Mike."

"And I think you need to put in a word to Sun and Huang about purpose-built landing craft."

"I'll be sure to do that at the next meeting," Li promised. "You're not going to drop that, are you?"

"Marty, I can jury-rig a D-Day scenario using garbage barges, tugboats, leftover ferries, and as many engines as I could get my hands on."

"Which means you're possibly the best mechanic I've ever met."

"Maybe. Just one catch."

"Yeah?"

"I never want to fucking ride on those things ever again."
 
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I wonder if geological resource maps would cause wars that didn't happen in the OT. Countries nobody cared about, until "look at that oil and lithium!"
 
I wonder if geological resource maps would cause wars that didn't happen in the OT. Countries nobody cared about, until "look at that oil and lithium!"
Now that, that might just be restricted information.

That said, I don't think any people are going to be able to get that out.

Not really because of any restrictions, but because it's not exactly common knowledge, technological literacy isn't exactly a thing for downtimers who visit, and it's not like they have the equipment or the markets to extract a good amount of these.

That said, trading this information is a big asset that the ROC has in their back pocket, so you probably have some spook who does cyberwarfare downloading and wiping what information exists.

Honestly, this might actually be the bargaining chip that the Chinese use to get Macau. "You give us this small port, and we'll help you exploit the resources of Mozabique and Angola."

But yeah, it would be safe to assume that there is probably some MIB agent compiling and burying all the survey charts and resource maps they can get their hands on.

As good as they are at their jobs, it's not like Rachel and Martin do everything at the MIB.

Just the cool stuff.
 
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So, I kind of just realized something:

Given that Taiwan is, well, Taiwan, and it as well as the islands near the mainland and the ships in that area were likely teleported…

There's a decent chance some People's Liberation Army Navy (No I don't know why they call themselves that) submarines accidentally got transported.

Which means that there is probably at least one submarine that is sent to the past and is likely finding out just what the hell they are supposed to do, given recent events.

Do they join the ROC? Strike out on their own?

Seems that for now, looks like they're going to stay underwater.
 
What about nuclear power plants? I see Taiwan has them but is similar to Japan, being in active seismic area...
They should be safe in China, though I think it's difficult to cool them unless they're built on the shore? Still, they can jump ahead of the anti nuclear environmentalist scare(who don't know the fuk they're talking about).
 
What about nuclear power plants?
Nuclear power in Taiwan is likely a necessity during the energy crunch, when energy insecurity was at its highest and they needed any and all power generation.

However, nuclear material is hard to come by for the Islanders, which, coupled with a long building time, will likely mean that nuclear power is going to be on hold for expansion in favor of natural gas and renewables.

That said, nuclear power could play a long-term role in Chinese energy, but I don't think that will happen for the better part of at least a decade, which will require the ROC to use a transitional energy source (likely natural gas, hydro, wind, or solar) while they get mines set up on the Mainland.

Still, they might be able to run the plants on Taiwan, so it won't be a complete waste. Just a long wait for expansion.
 
Yah know I wonder why the Taiwanese aren't giving the Japanese a bit more of a carrot since their treaties, that restricted resource data would include the off shore oil-fields that were found by the Russians in territory that is currently Japanese lands. That actually encourages Japan to focus on taking Russian territory rather than getting into another fight with Taiwan.
 
Yah know I wonder why the Taiwanese aren't giving the Japanese a bit more of a carrot since their treaties, that restricted resource data would include the off shore oil-fields that were found by the Russians in territory that is currently Japanese lands. That actually encourages Japan to focus on taking Russian territory rather than getting into another fight with Taiwan.
Too early for Oil based strategic resources.

Japan is still using steamships. They also have everything they want from Russia, Taiwan is still a sore spot and would occupy their attention.
 

Developed in 1870's and started testing in fleets world wide 1900-1910 if not earlier plus the Japanese navy needs to do a complete rebuild which will probably lead to a early role out of IJNS Kongo and ships like her. We might even get to see IJNS Fubuki show up a decade early as well as ships like her world wide for their dual role guns and all around escort skills. The Germans are one of the only groups late to the oil party thanks to their needing to full their ships under British blockade hence not having internal oil reserves. Actually everybody's going to see oil as the new black gold early because of the expense savings on refueling infrastructure compared to coal also less coal used in ships means more steel for ships. What's going to be really crazy is explosive developments especially with cordite and its derivatives being proven unstable for long term storage. Their arrival in the timeline is going to change World War 1 and its aftereffects especially as the OTL's information bleed's out into the wider world.
 
plus the Japanese navy needs to do a complete rebuild which will probably lead to a early role out of IJNS Kongo and ships like her. We might even get to see IJNS Fubuki show up a decade early as well as ships like her world wide for their dual role guns and all around escort skills.
Thats part of the problem really...

Japan should be a bit broke by now, they need a lot of time and money before they can use oil ships given the expense of upscaling not even sure if their shipyards are expanded enough.

Might need to import olderships for now.
Actually everybody's going to see oil as the new black gold early because of the expense savings on refueling infrastructure compared to coal also less coal used in ships means more steel for ships
No doubt about it although given Taiwanese naval showing they might be more interested in airplanes and missiles.
 
No doubt about it although given Taiwanese naval showing they might be more interested in airplanes and missiles.

The Battle of the East China Sea is probably the turning point in naval warfare in this timeline.

Here you have a naval force with a handful of ships and dozens of planes utterly annihilating one of the largest navies on the planet.

Now, if you're an aspiring naval power, you're going to want to replicate the kind of effectiveness that the Islanders can do.

As in, kill the enemy fleet while they are outside gun range.

So, you send somebody over to Taiwan and ask around, and they're going to explain how Anti Ship Missiles and aircraft work.

Now, missiles are almost definitely too high tech for you to replicate. Modern rocketry is still in its infancy, radar-guided munitions are all theoretical, and there is now way in hell Taiwan is going to sell you an ASM.

So, if not missiles, what are your other options for killing the enemy fleet while they're out of range?

Airplanes.

And how do you take airplanes with your fleet?

Aircraft carriers.

Well, seaplanes are another option, but aircraft carriers are probably your best bet, especially when the first helicopter carriers (ROCS Huang Xing and ROCS Sun Yat Sen, two converted cargo ships) would serve as an inspiration.

Problem is, that aircraft of the time aren't really equipped to destroy ships like an F-16 launched missile can. Your average WW1 plane is going to have to get in close (compared to an F-16, anyways) to get a hit.

So battleships will stick around for the time being, until aircraft can engage from beyond visible range or the downtimers can develop effective anti-ship missiles.

That said, the downtimers are definitely going to be looking into naval aviation and rocketry, which will speed up development Compared to our history.
 
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Or they'll go the opposite direction for a proper look at guided artillery munitions and maybe scramjet artillery rounds in kinetic impact configuration. Missiles are great for specific targets but are expensive compared to a Iron Rain bombardment hence why the Iowa's are still available for recall and why they've been used in every conventional American ground war that they could get in range for.
 
That's the catch, though. Range.

Well, that, and likely needing a full overhaul.

Against anyone who isn't Taiwan, that could work.

Missouri has a range of about 40 km on their main guns. That's pretty far.

But when you're up against an enemy whose weakest anti-ship missile has a range of 90 km, you're going to get hit before you get in range.

That said, most countries in 1911 aren't Taiwan sent back to the past. Which means they can't really develop any kind of weapon like that that can kill a ship from outside of gun range.

Rocketry is in its infancy and radar doesn't exist. Naval aviation is in the crib, too.

So until they can develop that, the battleship will have a purpose.

But once naval aviation actually exists and radar-guided munitions become viable, the superior range of missiles and naval aviation will likely render the battleship obsolete.

Sure, scramjet artillery and guided artillery could also go through the R&D process, but it would likely take longer to develop those than it would to develop jet aircraft and guided missiles.

And you would still have the issue of range.
 
Yah know I wonder why the Taiwanese aren't giving the Japanese a bit more of a carrot since their treaties, that restricted resource data would include the off shore oil-fields that were found by the Russians in territory that is currently Japanese lands. That actually encourages Japan to focus on taking Russian territory rather than getting into another fight with Taiwan.

Short answer is that Taipei has zero trust in a still-militaristic Japan. One of Japan's biggest weaknesses in WW2 was a lack of oil, so they aren't going to want to give a still-expansionist country any help.

Now, if Japan suddenly decided to drop the whole imperialism thing? Sure.

But not when Japan is still a potential threat.

Remember, they still have troops in Manchuria, so giving them fuel for their war machine would probably backfire.
 
Chapter 18: A New Course
Outskirts of Beijing, Qing Empire, 8 September 1911

As far as campaigns had gone, this had been a greater failure than when they had fought the Japanese fifteen years ago.

At least then it had taken eight months, and they'd only lost Korea and Taiwan.

But this? He'd lost his two best men in what he could only assume were artillery bombardments, along with everything south of Xi'An to Lianyungang in under forty days.

Worse, he'd had to ally himself with that up-jumped bandit, Zhang Zuolin. Truth be told, he didn't trust the man any further than he could throw him, but he needed every soldier he could get his hands on.

"General Yuan," greeted his newly minted colonel. "The Mongolians have arrived."

"Good. And the Japanese supplies?"

"Already distributed the first shipment. These men are armed as well as any Japanese soldier. In time, they will be trained to fight like one as well."

"Good," Yuan answered. He hadn't said that in a while, ever since the Navy had been sunk. "And the trenches?"

"It took us about two weeks, but our soldiers and the civilians have finished the first two lines of trenches south of the Yellow River. As we speak, additional fortifications are also underway around the capital, but our Japanese friends are almost certain that the rebels will be stopped here with the weapons they have provided us."

From their position on the third line, Yuan had to give the former bandit credit. While the Japanese had generously provided them with arms and artillery, Zhang had drilled his men into a capable fighting force.

From Xi'An to Lianyungang was a massive network of trenches and earthworks for their infantry and the Japanese field guns they had been gifted. Barbed wire covered the top, while wooden slats furnished the sides. And while the reports were scarce, a large trench was built in front of them to prevent any of their vehicles from crossing over and wreaking havoc behind their lines.

Manning them were the Beiyang Army, Zhang's men, and countless Manchu volunteers, numbering approximately a hundred fifty thousand men in total, with a large reserve left at the capital. Should it come to it, Yuan figured that he could, in theory, mobilize another hundred thousand men at the bare minimum, but that would take time.

With the combination of Northern China's sheer population, Japanese arms, Zhang's men, and his leadership, Yuan Shikai would finally put a stop to this rebellion here and now.

First on the battlefield, then on at the negotiating table.

Joint Republican Forces Headquarters, Nanyang, Henan Province, Republic of China

"There is absolutely no way that we're falling for this," Li chuckled, and handed the photos back to General Huang Xing. "We could lay a bridge right on top of this and punch right on through to Beijing."

He was exaggerating, of course. If the last two thousand kilometers had taught him anything, it was less "punch through the enemy," and more "punch through the enemy, chase them down in Humvees and tanks, and drop off troops at every city and village along the way."

"It is impressive," admitted Lea. "Though I thought we destroyed most of their heavy weapons."

"My money's on the Japanese," the agent theorized. "These look like some of the weapons we found on Ishigaki. Or what was left of them, anyways."

"Treacherous bastards," Lea muttered, and slammed his fist on the table. "I thought their navy was destroyed months ago?"

"Not their cargo fleet," said Li. "This is probably the IJA's doing, anyways."

"It makes little difference," Huang decided. "Now, back to the task at hand. You were saying something about bridges?"

"Right," Colonel Chen continued, before pointing at the paused drone footage. "Here we can see what looks to be an anti-vehicle trench. While there aren't many survivors of many of our attacks, it is highly unlikely that the Qing would not have gotten wind of our use of armored vehicles in our rapid advance. Moreover, the lack of any wood or metal siding in this larger trench leads me to believe that these trenches were purposely dug for the sake of stopping our vehicles."

"I see," Huang agreed, before turning to one of the folders on the table. "So, how do you propose we cross these trenches?"

"Normally, a modern military would use a portable bridge. However, we don't have anything like that right now, so we will be using fascines instead."

"I'm not familiar with the term," Huang admitted, before turning to Sun and Lea. Both men shook their heads. "Is it similar to the word fasces?"

"Probably, sir. But to put a long story short, a 'fascine' is a bundle of sticks, or in our case, metal pipes, that are dropped into a trench to allow men or vehicles to cross them. In short, it will allow our vehicles to cross over the trench by filling in the hole."

"And how do your men plan to deploy them?" It wasn't so much an accusation as much as Huang was honestly puzzled. "Via tanks?"

"Armored bulldozer, sir. We took some of the bulldozers that we used to build the airfield in Wuchang, welded on as much heavy steel and bulletproof glass as we could get our hands on, and then attached a quick-release system onto the front of it to deploy the fascine."

"And this has been tested, right?"

"More or less. It's much slower than your average bulldozer, but it's armored enough that small arms and machine guns should not be an issue."

"Good. Though it does seem to be a bit haphazard, Chen."

"It's the best we have right now until the Armored Vehicle Development Center can get the bridgelayer shipped over."

"How'd you convince them to part with that, Mike?" Li asked him. "I thought it was still a prototype."

"Same way I get everything else, Marty." Okay, maybe not everything else, since I'm pretty sure some of our stuff is stolen from the Army, but they don't need to know that part. "By writing reports and sending them up the chain. Turns out the barge stunt got me onto somebody's radar."

"So," Huang interrupted, before turning back to Chen, "Exactly how many of these bridgelayers are being built?"

"Probably a couple dozen," Chen figured. "We had a bunch of M48 hulls laying around, so the AVDC decided to tinker with them and build the hydraulic system."

"By copying the American designs from Vietnam?"

"Yup."

Yancheng Forward Operating Base, Jiangsu Province, Republic of China

Lei attached the last part of his rifle and held it forward, remembering which bit to aim down. After his first battle, his unit had been trained and equipped with this "Type 65" rifle by one of the soldiers from the future, and he'd studied it with the same fervor that he'd studied Washington or Napoleon.

"Lights out was an hour ago, Corporal," a voice announced behind him, nearly making him drop the rifle. "Can't sleep?"

"Sir!" Lei hissed, and saluted the man who looked only five years his elder. Along with the men in black escorting him, whom he guessed were his adjutants. "I'll return to my tent."

"At ease, Corporal. And you can stay."

"Thank you, Captain."

"You're nervous, aren't you?" The Corporal nodded. "They say that this is the beginning of the end of the Qing Empire."

"Good riddance," Lei said, then quickly bit his tongue. "Excuse me. I have my own personal reasons to dislike them."

"Go ahead," the Captain insisted. "If you knew what I did to get here, speaking out of turn is nothing to me."

"I see." Now this stranger had him curious. "If you don't mind me asking, what exactly did you do, Captain?"

"Desert the Imperial Japanese Army and grab the first boat to China," the Captain recalled. "I wasn't going to shoot my countrymen. Even if they were from a different century."

"And now you're here."

"Well, I went to Beijing, then back home to Xijang, convinced my men to start a rebellion when the Qing tried to kill me for being part of Tongmenghui, and now I'm here."

"Sounds like how I ended up here."

A wry smile formed on the Captain's face.

"Wait, were you part of the Hangzhou Uprising?"

"No, no," Lei answered. "I'm from Hunan. Some Qing officials must have found out about my sentiments, and the next thing I know, I'm leading the charge on the governor's mansion in Changsha.

"And now we're here. We're more than halfway to Beijing, Corporal. One final effort and we'll have pushed the Manchus back to Manchuria."

"I doubt we'll stop at Manchuria, Captain," Lei figured. "Not until China's united once more."

"Then it looks like we'll be needed for a bit longer, Corporal. Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to get some rest for tomorrow. I suggest you do the same, Corporal."

"I will, Captain..."

"Captain Jiang Jieshi. And you are?"

"Corporal Lei Feng."

"Until we meet again, Corporal Lei Feng. Goodnight."

"Goodnight, Captain," he said before heading back to his tent, with his mind at ease.

Though he could've sworn that Jiang's soldiers were giving him weird looks.

Wuchang Air Base, Wuchang, Hubei Province, Republic of China

"I thought I'd find you here," Rachel said as she walked into the hangar. "Captain Shannon Wu, was it?"

"That's me." Shannon turned around to see the agent standing at the door to the hangar. "You're the one from the bar, right? Thought they didn't let non-essential personnel into the hangars."

"I've got the clearance. I can leave, if you want."

"Honestly, I could use the company. And some help."

"Alright. What are you working on, anyways? I thought pilots had ground crews to help with maintenance."

"They usually do, yes, but I like to do my own inspections to make sure everything works."

"I… I don't think I can help you with that," Rachel admitted. "I'm an intel officer, not a mechanic."

"Then it's a good thing I'm not fixing it, then, er, I never got your name."

"Rachel- Major Rachel Wu, intelligence attache to the 66th Marine Brigade."

"Well, it's nice to meet you, Ma'am," Shannon said, before turning around and saluting. "Apologies for the insubordination."

"At ease, Shannon. And please, call me Rachel."

"Yes, Ma- er, Rachel. So, can I get your opinion on something?"

"Sure. What's up?"

"Shannon turned to the still-drying paint on the bow of her helicopter. "How does it look?"

Rachel took a good look at the helicopter to see just what the pilot was pointing to, and then she saw it.

A white eye with a black pupil was out in front, but what really got her attention was the red mouth with white jagged teeth along the side, all of it outlined in black.

"Nose art?" The pilot nodded proudly at her work. "It looks nice."

"It's an old design, based on the Flying Tigers' nose art."

"The World War II American volunteers?" Shannon happily nodded again. "I would have thought you'd go with a dragon."

"Rachel," Shannon shook her head and smiled, "We're fighting the Qing, and they got first dibs on having the dragon. I didn't have too many options."

"I don't think anybody is going to be dumb enough to think you've defected to the Qing in your helicopter."

"Yeah, you're right. Besides, I didn't really want to paint a whole dragon on the side. Too much work, and I'm not that great of an artist."

"Really?" Rachel looked back at the helicopter and took a good hard look at it. Sure enough, it resembled the nose art of the Flying Tigers. "It looks fine to me."

"Shark teeth are easier to paint," the pilot told her. "Plus, I think this one looks cooler than any dragon I could draw."

"Yeah. It's practically tradition as far as nose art goes."

"Probably. It's my tradition now, so I get to lay claim to it. That's how it works, right?"

"I guess? Copyright law is a whole mess, even before we all got sent back in time, but I'm pretty sure that as a Lost History design, it would be in the Public Domain."

"Works for me," Shannon figured. "Anyways, about that drink…"

"You know, we're trying to stop people from sticking their superiors with the tab, right?"

"Eh, you're not my commander. Besides, you asked me out, so you're paying."

Yancheng Forward Operating Base, Jiangsu Province, Republic of China

"This is never going to work," Cohen sighed as he looked at the sight before him. Somehow, some way, Le and Diamond had gotten hold of what they were calling a "dump truck," and armored as much of it as they could. "Where did you even get this?"

"Engineers had it laying around after they built the airfield in Nanjing, so I asked our commander if we could commandeer it, armor it, and fill it with as much dirt as possible." From the looks of him, Le seemed genuinely proud of his idea. "Plus, it's not like we have anything else we can use to cross the trenches with our vehicles."

"So the plan is to dump dirt into the trench so our vehicles can cross it?"

"Basically," Diamond said, matter-of-factly. "We ran the tests, and the Humvees and tanks should be able to drive over the dirt, even if it isn't packed too much."

"Oh, I saw the tests," Cohen admitted, "But what I want to know is why we have to be the ones driving the damn thing into enemy fire."

"Well, not exactly enemy fire," Le pointed out. "We'll have the armor covering us and the helicopters eliminating anything that can hurt us, even after we armored this thing to hell and back."

"If you say so," Cohen said, and shrugged. "You're driving, though. Sir."

"Works for me," Le agreed. Again, Cohen could tell the sergeant was just a bit too happy to be doing this. "Cohen, you'll handle the radio back at base while Diamond rides shotgun."
 
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Its kind of interesting how the communist in hiding is acting. Did he start out pure communist or was it a shift brought on by the uprisings and later coup by the general Yuan? Him seeing how a republic could easily be conquered by internal agents and then watching the factional in fighting of the Japanese invaders could explain why the mainland's forces are under a nominally unified command structure.
 
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