A Rat's Guide to Glory

[questioningmeme]

Their low drops tends to be 0,1% or lower, not 1%.

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That's technically true for E.G.O of HE level or above tho.

Since HE level E.G.O literally has a written chance of around 0.1%.

Imagine how much worst this can get in the later seasons, where E.G.Os are more abundant. Trying to get a high tier E.G.O then is super low too...

Provided you aren't a whale.

 

[Nyarky]

That's technically true for E.G.O of HE level or above tho.

Since HE level E.G.O literally has a written chance of around 0.1%.

Imagine how much worst this can get in the later seasons, where E.G.Os are more abundant. Trying to get a high tier E.G.O then is super low too...

Provided you aren't a whale.

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There's a reason I said I was extremely hesitant to play the game.

Gatchas are cancer, I would be happy if they were outlawed everywhere, because unfortunately as long as these kinds of methods are allowed, they will be used, and it leads to things like Elden ring not even generating as much money in a year as fifa (eugh) does in a month, meaning that you have to use them, or at least are extremely tempted to, then you get great video game producers going from making this:




To making this:




Which is precisely what I fear could happen there.

 

[questioningmeme]

Tbh. As a person who is also afraid of gacha I will say this.

Unless you want to collect everything. Limbus Company is the most F2P friendly kind of gacha I've seen so far. They are exceptionally generous.

That's to be seen in the future of course, but generally speaking, Limbus currently is fairly f2p friendly, as even the hardest boss currently (apparently 2-18) is beatable 0 gacha required so long as you know how to play.

The game is fun though. Way too fun for a gacha. In it's current state, the free rolls they give you at the start of the game can carry you all the way to the victory line.

 

[Metarite]

Stairs to the second floor.

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I thought so too at first, but I don't think there is a stairs to the second floor here. Dexter's office only have 2 other rooms and no claim of a second floor. It's more likely that the other floors are accessible through an outside staircase and belong to some other group. Only Naron can confirm this though.

Gorilla tactics are mostly used for long term strategies though, we don't have the time to implement a true hit and run after the already too long to go for flanking. By the time it has an effect, the battle will have been long finished.

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That... isn't relevant at all. As per the wikipedia page:

Spoiler: Guerrilla warfare

Guerrilla warfare is a form of irregular warfare in which small groups of combatants, such as paramilitary personnel, armed civilians, or irregulars, use military tactics including ambushes, sabotage, raids, petty warfare, hit-and-run tactics, and mobility, to fight a larger and less-mobile traditional military.

The time frame of the battle is not what it is defined by.

And of course you are back to using the time thing again.

Look, the only one who can assert the claim that the battle would be finished before we can execute the surprise attack is Naron, and obviously he is not in the position to talk about this. If you want to keep using that argument, I'll need you to provide the proof that the Dexter's Office absolutely cannot deal with the current situation for a short period of time without the help of Ciel & Parvati. Preferably from actual sources in the story and not just something from your tangibly related experience or POV. Otherwise, stop asserting it as a fact and refer to it as a risk that could happen.

See the problem is that I really can't see that happening, we're not a threat, we're a grade 9 fixer just beginning, with one augment and one augment only, and no actual fighting style, best case we take some out and manage to flee before the rest of them kill us by sheer numbers, while our office still get overrun in the background because doing so doesn't require that many of our opponents, worst case we die overwhelmed before doing anything and they continue on their merry way.

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That's why I brought Parvati along. It's hard to ignore someone with a spear right behind you while you try to cram into a doorway. We are, again, not trying to take out the entire group outside by ourselves. It's just to give the Dexter's Office some breathing room so they can launch a counter attack.

 

[Naron]

It's more likely that the other floors are accessible through an outside staircase and belong to some other group. Only Naron can confirm this though.

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Correct. This is something akin to an office building; Dexter only rented the ground floor for his Fixer Office.

 

[drearyArchon]

That's technically true for E.G.O of HE level or above tho.

Since HE level E.G.O literally has a written chance of around 0.1%.

Imagine how much worst this can get in the later seasons, where E.G.Os are more abundant. Trying to get a high tier E.G.O then is super low too...

Provided you aren't a whale.

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At least some of the EGOs are available through the free version of the Battlepass. Ebony Queen's Apple (an HE, which is the highest available rn) is on level 4. I already got it and have fully armed Outis.

That's to be seen in the future of course, but generally speaking, Limbus currently is fairly f2p friendly, as even the hardest boss currently (apparently 2-18) is beatable 0 gacha required so long as you know how to play.

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Yeah, the Mexicans kinda got hit by the nerf bat since PMoon apparently didn't mean to filter their players that early. The real filter fight is apparently somewhere at the end of chapter 3.

The reason the Mariachi Band That Also Does Crime Apparently was so fearsome is that they had 3-4 coins on their strongest skills. If you went at them with Skills with only 1 coin, the Mariachi can clash several times and only needs you to flip bad once to win the whole interaction. Coupled with how getting Staggered can screw anyone over massively and you have a filter for people who didn't understand how the coin flips work or who don't watch their clashes.

The best way to get through them is to either use your own skills with 2-3 coins (so that the math not is quite so skewed against you) or nuking them with EGO whenever they try that shit (since EGO base rolls are too high to be overcome with tricks like that).

By the way, you can pass clashes to slower characters by having the higher-speed ones use a defensive skill. It's a good trick to learn if you have a boss throwing out high powered skills and you need to make sure your Sinners only clash with it using their EGOs.

 

[questioningmeme]

The best way to get through them is to either use your own skills with 2-3 coins or nuking them with EGO whenever they try that shit.

By the way, you can pass clashes to slower characters by having the higher-speed ones use a defensive skill. It's a good trick to learn if you have a boss throwing out high powered skills and you need to make sure your Sinners only clash with it using their EGOs.

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Yep. The latter was how I built up 3 E.G.Os, and nuked that b*%&h with 3 E.G.Os, before mutilating her corpse with Gregor and Hong-Lu.

Generally speaking, if theres stupid strong skills with 1 + 100 or something like that, you should try to counter them with a 2 + 1 + 1 +1. The coins you have the higher chance you will win the clash.

 

[Nyarky]

Guerrilla warfare is a form of irregular warfare in which small groups of combatants, such as paramilitary personnel, armed civilians, or irregulars, use military tactics including ambushes, sabotage, raids, petty warfare, hit-and-run tactics, and mobility, to fight a larger and less-mobile traditional military.

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Look closer: it's a form of warfare, you know, something that is between countries and last more than one battle. That's part of what I was talking about, another is that quite a lot of these tactics require time to work or be prepared, an ambush needs time to prepare, so does a sabotage, raids and petty warfare are about logistics, so long time gains and preparation, hit and run is better when you have a long time to rest.

And I really don't see how you can think that we are doomed if we stay there to fight but the office will be fine with less people after we leave for our surprise attack, one that either cannot be a surprise because we just announced it for all to hear before leaving, or will probably get our allies distracted far before our ennemies since they will see us seemingly flee.

 

[kaillll]

... You know, after finishing limbus chapter one, I have more questions about living weaponry and whether or not we should get them or not after all this, Since...*cough* anyway.

 

[drearyArchon]

... You know, after finishing limbus chapter one, I have more questions about living weaponry and whether or not we should get them or not after all this, Since...*cough* anyway.

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Probably not, yeah.

There seems to be a stigma around Fallen Wings like Ayin's L Corp, Old G Corp, and probably Pre-Smoke War L Corp that sticks to their former Feathers / Employees.

It might be fine since people do still use Enkephalin, Smoke, and all the other fallen Wing Singularities, but eehhhhh.

 

[SITB]

Gorilla tactics are mostly used for long term strategies though, we don't have the time to implement a true hit and run after the already too long to go for flanking. By the time it has an effect, the battle will have been long finished.

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Gorilla tactics is how Yesod and Geburah mains play.

 

[Metarite]

Look closer: it's a form of warfare, you know, something that is between countries and last more than one battle. That's part of what I was talking about, another is that quite a lot of these tactics require time to work or be prepared, an ambush needs time to prepare, so does a sabotage, raids and petty warfare are about logistics, so long time gains and preparation, hit and run is better when you have a long time to rest.

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That's why I said use Guerrilla tactics, the main part being a small group engaging a larger group using mobility/hit and run to deal with a larger group. I would absolutely love the time to prepare this attack but that isn't exactly a luxury given to Ciel right now. And just because we didn't have time or resource to prepare doesn't mean we cannot engage using it. I honestly don't want to be arguing schematics here. Tell me exactly what the issue is with the plan that Ciel cannot perform the Guerilla tactics that I suggested.

And I really don't see how you can think that we are doomed if we stay there to fight but the office will be fine with less people after we leave for our surprise attack, one that either cannot be surprise because we just announced it for all to hear before leaving, or will probably get our allies distracted far before our ennemies since they will see us seemingly flee.

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The reason I think we are doomed is because the Dexter's office is still going to be boxed up by the Thorn Gang within the office. Staying inside and standing your ground is just something they would expect. There are many ways to break that position as the Thorn Gang that I haven't seen addressed yet. For example:

• What if the Thorn Gang is just sending in weaklings to tire out the strong members of the group first? (i.e. Dexter & Rookwood)
• How is the Dexter office supposed to deal with the gang that is outside while they are still holing up in the office, with no defensive measures in the office and no trump card to use?
• What if the Thorn Gang start throwing things in the office to smoke them out once the ground is held? (via a smoke bomb, fire, a thorn grenade or whatever)

We will be ok with less people during that time because it is a short period of time. Compared that to a prolonged battle against an enemy that obviously outnumbers you and have a strong position (no the office is not a good position just because it is cramped).

As for the part where we might distract our comrades, we simply don't have time to explain the plan as it is. If it happens, then it happens. I'll accept that as a weakness of the plan that just have to be left as it is.

 

[SleepMode]

[X] Fight
-[X] You were a rat, you know how to overwhelm people with superior numbers and surprise. Now you know what to watch for.
-[X] Step back, watch for people being overwhelmed or flanked. Dart in to keep the pressure off them and step back before you get overwhelmed in turn. You may not know how to fight, but you are an expert at jumping people with a pipe.

 

[Nyarky]

What if the Thorn Gang is just sending in weaklings to tire out the strong members of the group first? (i.e. Dexter & Rookwood)

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If they're doing that and we use your tactic we will end up fighting them without our bosses there to take them on, so we die.

As for how to take care of that there: do exactly what is currently winning, helping our allies not get overwhelmed so that they're more fresh when they send out their stronger members.

• How is the Dexter office supposed to deal with the gang that is outside while they are still holing up in the office, with no defensive measures in the office and no trump card to use?

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They don't need to do it? If you're thinking of the syndicate doing a siege: they can't, the sweepers would kill them during the night.

And your plan doesn't address that, no, just us with one ally outside is not *taking care of the ennemies outside* it's * dying to the ennemies outside because there are still more of them than us, but now they have even more space to use this fact*

What if the Thorn Gang start throwing things in the office to smoke them out once the ground is held? (via a smoke bomb, fire, a thorn grenade or whatever)

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If they do that their forces inside will either have the same problem as us or will have retreated already, so we can discuss it without being in a fight.

Also, this is the city, grenades and smoke bombs are not used from what we've seen.

And once again, your plan doesn't address that, they can still launch a grenade or light the building on fire then keep the ones inside from leaving while we are outside, there are more than 30 of them, they can multitask.

 

[Metarite]

If they're doing that and we use your tactic we will end up fighting them without our bosses there to take them on, so we die.

As for how to take care of that there: do exactly what is currently winning, helping our allies not get overwhelmed so that they're more fresh when they send out their stronger members.

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We don't have to beat them, just distract them long enough, which Pavoli and Ciel are equipped to do especially with a surprise attack. I won't say they have no chance of just getting wiped, but this is a Urban Myth fight. They ought to be able to handle a defensive, hit and run battle utilizing their range and speed.

I concede the 2nd point, though I will point out that Dexter and Rookwood are still going to be tired out no matter what as they are the main fighters in the office that have to deal with the incoming gang members. So they are not gonna be as fresh as those waiting outside no matter how well Ciel do here.

They don't need to do it? If you're thinking of the syndicate doing a siege: they can't, the sweepers would kill them during the night.

And your plan doesn't address that, no, just us with one ally outside is not *taking care of the ennemies outside* it's * dying to the ennemies outside because there are still more of them than us, but now they have even more space to use this fact*

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Not an actual siege. I doubt this battle is gonna last until 3 a.m. I meant what is stopping them from just continuously reinforcing the group coming in when the Dexter's office is just stuck inside. Is the plan actually to just keep beating those who come in up, and somehow overcoming the number disadvantage through sheer willpower here?

If they do that their forces inside will either have the same problem as us or will have retreated already, so we can discuss it without being in a fight.

Also, this is the city, grenades and smoke bombs are not used from what we've seen.

And once again, your plan doesn't address that, they can still launch a grenade or light the building on fire then keep the ones inside from leaving while we are outside, there are more than 30 of them, they can multitask.

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There is actually an instance of someone with grenades: Katriel from the Syndicate. Though admittedly she didn't really use them in the game. Smoke and fire are part of the City's arsenal of weapons, and since they have the technology to make lighters and such, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to think that they can start a fire at least.

I digress though, the point is there are ways to smoke people out of a building here. The surprise attack actually do counteract that, since we would be able to spot them doing it and be in a position to jump them rather than needing to react to it from the inside once it starts and the office is still surrounded by the Thorn Gang. Heck, we may even be able to use it against them with some luck.

 

[Nyarky]

Not an actual siege. I doubt this battle is gonna last until 3 a.m. I meant what is stopping them from just continuously reinforcing the group coming in when the Dexter's office is just stuck inside. Is the plan actually to just keep beating those who come in up, and somehow overcoming the number disadvantage through sheer willpower here?

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Uuuhhhhh

How is your plan changing their number again? Don't tell distraction I already made what I thought of your idea that we would actually distract them quite clear.

It's easy to see what stops them from constantly reinforcing the group coming in: the simple fact that they don't have unlimited numbers.

Yes the plan is to beat those coming in and overcoming the number disadvantage, not via willpower, but via the simple facts that: most of our opponents are mooks even weaker than us, it is easier to fight several individual fights against one opponent each time than to fight one fight against the same number of opponents, so staying inside and reducing the number disparity is better than trying to be cute and do a flanking against opponents that don't have the discipline that would be disturbed by said flanking in the first place, and via protecting the actual best fighters there, our bosses, instead of hoping they'll survive long enough for us to try said ineffective flanking.


Let's be honest, you are never going to convince me, because I think that the very premise of your plan, that we can make a worthwhile distraction, is false, and most of the voters seems to, if not agree with me, definitely not be agreeing with you (seriously, the vote is 13 to 3 against you), so let's stop this argument, it has been going on long enough.

Edit:

Still, I forgot to adress this so might as well:

I digress though, the point is there are ways to smoke people out of a building here. The surprise attack actually do counteract that, since we would be able to spot them doing it and be in a position to jump them rather than needing to react to it from the inside once it starts and the office is still surrounded by the Thorn Gang. Heck, we may even be able to use it against them with some luck.

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If they wanted to smoke us out, they wouldn't be jumping in with us, they would have begun with that, and if they decide to do it later, we can see it coming by the fact that those inside will have to get out before they do it, and us seeing that they're about to do that from the outside doesn't' help, because we have no way of telling it to those inside and will be too occupied with our own fighting to stop it, if we even see them prepare it in the first place.

 

[N0Way]

Now in detail: the reason I was not around to 'officially' end the moratorium on time is that I was trying to make Limbus Company work.

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Maybe lay off a bit from limbus if this angers you so much? When I tried it on release day i got softlocked in cutscene, not to mention that some tutorials got skipped by themselves. I'm gonna wait until next patch

 

[Naron]

Maybe lay off a bit from limbus if this angers you so much? When I tried it on release day i got softlocked in cutscene, not to mention that some tutorials got skipped by themselves. I'm gonna wait until next patch

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Eh. I got it to work in the end, kinda-sorta. Right now it decides to be problematic by giving me a black screen whenever I try to drive for the first chapter.

But honestly, it is less me being angry and more just... annoyed? Exasperated? Something like that. One of the qualities I like very much about myself is that I can shed a bad mood like water, five minutes away from the issue and I am generally fine.

The technology fought me tooth and nail, but in the end I learned a few things and got the game to work. My only 'problem' right now is that I was already planning for Limbus and have no real alternative to spend my free time on.

 

[Metarite]

Yes the plan is to beat those coming in and overcoming the number disadvantage, not via willpower, but via the simple facts that: most of our opponents are mooks even weaker than us, it is easier to fight several individual fights against one opponent each time than to fight one fight against the same number of opponents, so staying inside and reducing the number disparity is better than trying to be cute and do a flanking against opponents that don't have the discipline that would be disturbed by said flanking in the first place, and via protecting the actual best fighters there, our bosses, instead of hoping they'll survive long enough for us to try said ineffective flanking.

Let's be honest, you are never going to convince me, because I think that the very premise of your plan, that we can make a worthwhile distraction, is false, and most of the voters seems to, if not agree with me, definitely not be agreeing with you (seriously, the vote is 13 to 3 against you), so let's stop this argument, it has been going on long enough.

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Ya, I noticed the disconnect a while ago. You guys seem to think that the mob is weaker than the majority of Dexter's Office, while I'm seeing each of them at at least the power level of a Grade 9 fixer, maybe just slightly lower than Parvati/Ciel level. Because standing your ground is a choice you only make if you see the entire Thorn Gang as weaker or maybe around the same strength as Dexter's Office, even after the surprise attack. Like I said though, I'm willing to see how it goes and adjust myself accordingly after this.

I won't touch on other stuff you said, but I have to point out your assertion that the opponents won't be disturbed by the surprise attack is frankly, quite ridiculous. A disorderly, undisciplined group is more susceptible to the surprise attack if anything. The Thorn Gang members staying calm and still focusing on carrying out the mission after a surprise attack instead of worrying about themselves is something I would expect from the Thumb or the Index, a Star of the City threat, not an Urban Myth mob. Yet somehow you managed to assert the complete opposite, as if royal guards or special forces that are trained and disciplined are more prone to be disturbed by a surprise attack than a random group of highway robbers.

Edit: Getting through limbus company more, and the difficulty really picks up halfway through ch1, part 2. I'm actually forced to use EGO and some level of defensive play to get through the random fights now, which is pretty cool. I do think they shouldn't hide the stats of the enemies before the stage though, since the real strategy of the game right now is to pick suitable identities to combat the enemies.

 

[Birthday]

Ya, I noticed the disconnect a while ago. You guys seem to think that the mob is weaker than the majority of Dexter's Office, while I'm seeing each of them at at least the power level of a Grade 9 fixer, maybe just slightly lower than Parvati/Ciel level

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I mean, I accept that I might be underestimating them, but aren't the Thorns a relatively new Syndicate? Having their mooks all be around Grade 9 strikes me as being far too relatively strong. Also, if each of those members are Grade 9-level, then quite frankly, sending this many is overkill.

 

[Metarite]

Is Grade 9 level not around basic, possibly inexperienced combatant level? Because the only levels I know below that right now are rats and probably city's civilians, and I don't think the Thorn Gang members are that low a level since they are a gang that just deployed an ambush into a fixer office.

And ya, it is overkill, which is why I don't really understand why the number advantage isn't seen as a major threat here.

 

[Birthday]

Is grade 9 level not around basic combatant level? Because the only levels I know below that right now are rats and probably city's civilians, and I don't think the Thorn Gang members are that low a level since they are a gang that just deployed an ambush into a fixer office.

And ya, it is overkill, which is why I don't really understand why the number advantage isn't seen as a major threat here.

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It is, but "basic combatant" is kind of a relative term? Especially in the Backstreets. Plus, they're still attacking a Grade 9 Office. I don't think that's a great indication of their strength? And like I said, they're a new Syndicate. They can't have gotten this many "basic combatants" when their recruiting pool is pretty much just the Backstreets and their Rats.


Also, do we know what District Ciel is in?

 

[questioningmeme]

It is the eighth day since you joined Dexter's Office and you are out delivering a parcel to a different part of District 9. Not far out from the area you call home, but outside of it.

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District 9 it seems. We are where the Pianist will be in the future!

 

[Metarite]

It is, but "basic combatant" is kind of a relative term? Especially in the Backstreets. Plus, they're still attacking a Grade 9 Office. I don't think that's a great indication of their strength? And like I said, they're a new Syndicate. They can't have gotten this many "basic combatants" when their recruiting pool is pretty much just the Backstreets and their Rats.

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It is relative, but I'm using Ciel and Parvati as a reference here as one of the better Grade 9s, and those two are really inexperienced combatants at best. I don't think a syndicate gang, however new it is, will have too many members that are much lower than that level. We don't really have an idea of their true combat strength, but I think it is safe to say they are at least confident enough with their numbers to launch an attack on a Grade 9 fixer office. I don't think the existence of newly promoted Grade 7 Dexter and Grade 8 Rookwood alone is outside of their expectations, at least, not enough to turn this whole thing around.

I really don't want to put my faith in the Thorn Gang being so dumb that they tried to ambush a fixer office that is out of their league when the ambush is on their own terms and I highly doubt they are doing this out of desperation.

Edit: Alternatively, the other side of the coin is if the Thorn Gang actually knows they are outclassed by the Dexter's Office, but expected the ambush and number advantage to completely demoralize a good number of the Dexter's Office so they can get the upper hand. In which case standing your ground would work, but that feels too much like a convenient and optimistic scenario.

 

[Birthday]

I don't think a syndicate gang, however new it is, will have too many members that are much lower than that level.

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Why do you think that? It's not like there's some sort of requirement of having "X amount of people this strong" before you can start calling yourself a syndicate. Like, I'm aware that I'm being optimistic here, but at the same time, nothing in the previous update said anything about the mooks' skill level? So this feels more like an assumption if anything.

Also, if the bulk of them are Grade 9ish, then the distraction plan doesn't really work either? We're only slightly stronger by your estimation, so why would they turn around to focus on us, and expose their backs to the Grade 8 and 7 fixers in the office?