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A Play of Blood and Shot (ASOIAF NG)

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Atomicwalrus said:
True it should be
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Wasn't your city founded by separatists? Hell how long before Qohor seceeds because the Freehold is too softcore for it?
Velasco said:
Because it's the obvious thing. Free gold isn't a country, it's a coalition or federation, of sovereign member states.


Is that Lincoln
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Sherman, the guy who marched through Georgia and burned down Atlanta (in as civilised fashion as one can burn down a major city)
 
I mean, looking at all the bodies Qohor, Norvos, Essaria, Volantis and Myrwater piled up trying to make Pentos not secede I think they'd feel pretty silly drafting a Constitution "Secession now okay."
 
Wade Garrett said:
I mean, looking at all the bodies Qohor, Norvos, Essaria, Volantis and Myrwater piled up trying to make Pentos not secede I think they'd feel pretty silly drafting a Constitution "Secession now okay."
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On the exact other hand Tyrosh, Lys and to an extent Myr (coincidentally those cities that depend on open sea lanes and trade) were all rather lukewarm over the whole war. They might have a rather different view of committing the Freehold to holding its cities by force of arms alone given how it was a complete disaster for the Freehold here.
 
Mortis Nuntius said:
On the exact other hand Tyrosh, Lys and to an extent Myr (coincidentally those cities that depend on open sea lanes and trade) were all rather lukewarm over the whole war. They might have a rather different view of committing the Freehold to holding its cities by force of arms alone given how it was a complete disaster for the Freehold here.
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Failed Qohorik artist turned demagogue begins spinning "Stabbed in the back by the politicians" narrative to lay groundwork for his election as Emperor in 3...2...
 
Atomicwalrus said:
When the Narative is true....
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TBH I'm not sure how you get stabbed in the back from your homelands being on fire and invaded, a free city being conquered, a chunk of your army deserted and your tradelanes being strangled with a decisive military defeat of your only army substantial enough to either march on the Dothraki or continue the siege.

Like the senate's own terms were never acceptable to us and we never even really considered your threats valid so it was clearly going to be a war until either our demands were met or you destroyed us and by the end of the war you guys were running on empty. You're secret weapons of Wildfyre and Dinosaurs had been countered, you were outnumbered on every front and half your cities didn't even want to fight in the first place.

How exactly did you expect the Freehold to come out smelling of roses?
 
Mortis Nuntius said:
TBH I'm not sure how you get stabbed in the back from your homelands being on fire and invaded, a free city being conquered, a chunk of your army deserted and your tradelanes being strangled with a decisive military defeat of your only army substantial enough to either march on the Dothraki or continue the siege.

Like the senate's own terms were never acceptable to us and we never even really considered your threats valid so it was clearly going to be a war until either our demands were met or you destroyed us and by the end of the war you guys were running on empty. You're secret weapons of Wildfyre and Dinosaurs had been countered, you were outnumbered on every front and half your cities didn't even want to fight in the first place.

How exactly did you expect the Freehold to come out smelling of roses?
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Even though we had vastly more resources and men, most of the freemen cities sent bugger all troops.

The only defeats i remember where from the beginning of the war. Out numbered we consistantly punched above our weight and as i said won most of the battles. That last battle was a Freehold victory we both inflicted 30% losses, your force however outnumbered ours and you failed to dislodge us from our position.

The war should have been won in a year or 2 and we should have come out of it smelling like roses. The freemen cities and the senate however assured we lost it.
 
You lost because you refused to commit all the troops you could get to Pentos during the crucial first year allowing fortifications to be built, the first year you made a breach, half of your army did jack all because only half of it was ordered to exploit it, and you decided to start a war over something that would never have ended in Pentosi secession if you had let it lie.
 
Atomicwalrus said:
Even though we had vastly more resources and men, most of the freemen cities sent bugger all troops.

The only defeats i remember where from the beginning of the war. Out numbered we consistantly punched above our weight and as i said won most of the battles. That last battle was a Freehold victory we both inflicted 30% losses, your force however outnumbered ours and you failed to dislodge us from our position.

The war should have been won in a year or 2 and we should have come out of it smelling like roses. The freemen cities and the senate however assured we lost it.
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You lost at Lorath, you lost outside Lys, you lost outside Pentos and you lost outside Braavos (when five hundred men delayed you a year and then your Dothraki deserted you)

You punched above your weight with fucking wyyrens and wildfire which you fell back upon whenever headbutting a wall fell short.
 
Mortis Nuntius said:
You lost at Lorath, you lost outside Lys, you lost outside Pentos and you lost outside Braavos (when five hundred men delayed you a year and then your Dothraki deserted you)

You punched above your weight with fucking wyyrens and wildfire which you fell back upon whenever headbutting a wall fell short.
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We didn't lose at Braavos and we won outside Pentos. We achieved our goals in Braavos we weren't trying to conquer it. With greater numbers and attacking from a position of strength you couldn't shift us from outside of Pentos and you had more casualties.

Again it should have been a curb stomp. The freemen decided to not send troops because reasons (they didn't want to fight and honour their alliance?), this resulted in the fight going even longer and their trade being borked even more.

Any who the whole thing was a mess and there's no point debating it. I am growing sick of working with an NPC anchor round the Freehold's neck making it lose every war it should win easily.
 
Atomicwalrus said:
We didn't lose at Braavos and we won outside Pentos. We achieved our goals in Braavos we weren't trying to conquer it. With greater numbers and attacking from a position of strength you couldn't shift us from outside of Pentos and you had more casualties.

Again it should have been a curb stomp. The freemen decided to not send troops because reasons (they didn't want to fight and honour their alliance?), this resulted in the fight going even longer and their trade being borked even more.

Any who the whole thing was a mess and there's no point debating it. I am growing sick of working with an NPC anchor round the Freehold's neck making it lose every war it should win easily.
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Then why attack it at all? Because it didn't pull any troops or men from anywhere important and didn't even really touch the city in a meaningful way.


We never tried to shift you from outside Pentos. Literally every year our objective was to stay alive until the Freehold broke.

Maybe because you keep treating it like your personal plaything? Its an alliance of a dozen city states independent for centuries and only loosely united. They don't even speak the same language or share a religion or trade interests. So fighting a long and bloody war against your neighbours and trading partners and not quitting whilst ahead was never going to end well.
 
Mortis Nuntius said:
Then why attack it at all? Because it didn't pull any troops or men from anywhere important and didn't even really touch the city in a meaningful way.


We never tried to shift you from outside Pentos. Literally every year our objective was to stay alive until the Freehold broke.

Maybe because you keep treating it like your personal plaything? Its an alliance of a dozen city states independent for centuries and only loosely united. They don't even speak the same language or share a religion or trade interests. So fighting a long and bloody war against your neighbours and trading partners and not quitting whilst ahead was never going to end well.
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I'm not going to explain my tactics, because lets be honest we'll be at war real soon.

I don't see how I have treated the freehold as my personal plaything, I have consistently put the Freehold before Qohor and conceded to it's authority. The only time I haven't done everything it's asked for is with the latest peace treaty. The Freehold does share a language, its members are each others most important trade partners, they share a history, ethnicity and it has been the greatest force for peace and prosperity since Valyria.

Again by all right it shouldn't have been a long and bloody war, the Freehold had the forces and capability to make the war a short curb stomp. NPC with the stupid ball who didn't want to fight because of trade forced it to be a long bloody thing which interrupted trade more.
 
Texan said:
Wyverns for the most part became less relevant during the second game, when Braavos invented light guns. They are more for scouting than actual battle.
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Again, still a valid tactic. Especially if they figure out high altitude bombing.

Hm, I think I might want to build an arsenal for myself. Can't always rely on being able to buy Freehold shit after all.
 
THatWhichWillBe said:
Tell that to Braavos.

Let's face it, Dragons aren't a trump card anymore.
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This was my point. Skyclearers exist for a reason, and they do pretty well at their job it seems. Frankly, I'm planning to improve on the design for mounting to Thunderbeasts.

Just like with mages, it's far cheaper to throw bullets at your problem then to go through the effort of training up a dragon rider who promptly gets shot from the sky by a skyclearer that any peasant can operate.
 
Theravis said:
This was my point. Skyclearers exist for a reason, and they do pretty well at their job it seems. Frankly, I'm planning to improve on the design for mounting to Thunderbeasts.

Just like with mages, it's far cheaper to throw bullets at your problem then to go through the effort of training up a dragon rider who promptly gets shot from the sky by a skyclearer that any peasant can operate.
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Skycleaers are more anti-wyvern weapons. For dragons you get cannon batteries.
 
Theravis said:
This was my point. Skyclearers exist for a reason, and they do pretty well at their job it seems. Frankly, I'm planning to improve on the design for mounting to Thunderbeasts.

Just like with mages, it's far cheaper to throw bullets at your problem then to go through the effort of training up a dragon rider who promptly gets shot from the sky by a skyclearer that any peasant can operate.
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Of course, Dragons and Mages can do really cool shit artillery can't.

Sure, artillery can level a city, but it can't turn your king into a viable battlefield force and provide him with an almost guaranteed escape button.

Artillery can bring down an army, but a Mage-organization can cause a rain that revitalizes your crops.
 
Eh, when we're skyclearers really tested against dragons? AFAIK dragons have largely lost due to stupid dragon-riders, not to their own inability versus weaponry.
 
EliudFS1 said:
Didn't Daenna and her son fell to Bravos Skyclearers? You made that report as well, you should know. My memory is a bit fuzzy concerning that.
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Daena had just flown cross-continent and her son was a teen on a very young, barely ridden, not properly trained Dragon, both fighting in the center of a city, alone, instead of across a battlefield or battle zone as part of a larger force. I'd attribute both deaths to human stupidity and fallibility.

Edit: Daena died trying to destroy the aqueduct, having basically flown (already exhausted) into a trap and sprung it shut making herself a sitting duck. The already injured Balerion crashed into the ground when his young dragon was unable to bare his full weight, with the then horribly injured young Dragon finished off by a hysterical mob using guns, cannon, anything they could get their hands on.
 
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Velasco said:
Daena had just flown cross-continent and her son was a teen on a very young, barely ridden, not properly trained Dragon, both fighting in the center of a city, alone, instead of across a battlefield or battle zone as part of a larger force. I'd attribute both deaths to human stupidity and fallibility.
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See? A dragon can't fiGht without support snymore. Thus, not a trump card.
 
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