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A Matter of Worth (Worm/Mighty Thor, alt-power, DEAD)

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Brandon Hume said:
You just did.

I think I'm done. I don't think my style of writing is compatible with piecemeal releases, especially not if the only thing people want is instant gratification. I'm an asshole for what I've written and what I haven't written simultaneously. I'm also an asshole for having thin skin and objecting to their objections.
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"Face palms" This is the Internet, you're always going to get complaints because that's how it works! When people can give their opinions on any topic with little consequence, they will do so. And because of how people work you're far more likely to get either a very positive or very negative response, or a very casual one such as "I like this".

I like the story, I did not like the Winslow parts however, the escalation of bullying was sudden and it felt forced, Taylor taking it instead of reaching her limit like in canon and just leaving was strange. However, I personally am more likely to skim those parts and read the parts I do like, but not everyone does, and will tell you. The way you responded only made this worse, as a few people has pointed out. By getting overly defensive and rude they felt you where ignoring their opinion (which we all know is an offence of the highest degree!!111!) and here we are.
 
Shaseyu said:
But you do drugs, Taylor.
Your drug is called Mjölnir.
You are ready to suffer any humiliation in school just to keep your father from finding out about your addiction.
So, you endure Trio's bullying, and then you run home and grab your Mjölnir, and you get high and feel like you are god.
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"This is your brain. This is your brain on my hammer. I am now wanted for murder."
 
H'oh-kay, well.....this well, this has gotten a bit crazy, no?
Still, I feel like I must put my criticisms forth, @Brandon Hume , but I must say, before that....
This is a good story, and you write quite well.

So, onto the criticisms....
1) All the school stuff: Honestly, everything has already been said, so this is more like a piece of advice. Unless it is going to play a major part, or is the major part of the story, the fanbase in general doesn't really enjoy watching the bullying. Escalating from what was already seen in canon even less so. Perhaps its because the bullying is one of the more real things in Worm, I dunno. But do expect a few people (and a few recurring ones) to quite loudly proclaim their disgust and disdain for the Bitches Three, and how they should all die some horrible gruesome death, preferably at the hands of Taylor.

On the bright side, you avoided the Locker Scene, which, if you know of Familiar of Zero, is the equivalent of the summoning scene: done a thousand-thousand times, even though it's essentially the same thing. In fact, the situation you wrote Taylor in was quite interesting, and I can't help but wonder what kind of power she'd get in that situation if she didn't get the hammer.

2) The Lung Fight. On the fight itself? Enjoyable, would read it again actually. As others have said, it is another station of canon though, and to continue the FoZ analogy from above, it's the equivalent of the Guiche fight. Still, the ending of the battle was subverted dramatically, no Undersiders showing up out of the blue, Armsmaster not being a cardboard cutout of a glory-hound asshole, and Taylor actually chastised. So yeah, it was great.

The problem for me, as well as a few others as they pointed out the same thing, was that you pulled, intentionally or not, a bait-and-switch. The chapter previous had Taylor out and about, just being a nice person. Who happens to fly and shoot lightning and no I'm not E88! So, I believe after I read that chapter that the station of canons were derailed, that Taylor would do something- oh wait here's the Lung fight, okay then. At that point, you essentially invalidated the chapter where she first went out; what does it matter if she helped a kitten out of a tree or fixed a stuck car if her second day had her taking out Lung? That entire chapter could technically be removed with nothing of value lost.
 
Brandon Hume said:
You just did.

I think I'm done. I don't think my style of writing is compatible with piecemeal releases, especially not if the only thing people want is instant gratification. I'm an asshole for what I've written and what I haven't written simultaneously. I'm also an asshole for having thin skin and objecting to their objections.
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NOOOOOO! This is my favorite fic in months! Your style is fine! Uhg, these people are just hating cause Worm fics are an exercise in near-futility. With Cauldron and Contessa and the Simurgh it can be hard to write something truly unique that isn't predictable, but honestly it's all excuses and people are just jerks.

PLEASE please please, just take a break and come back later. I enjoy your writing and too many Asgardian!Taylor fics (like, all 3 of them now) have fallen through the cracks.
 
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Edit: this comment was written after reading 1.3 and not 1.4. My points however still stand.

Ok, this chapter puts the final nail in the coffin and I really have to just ask.

What are you doing here?

The premises is awesome. I like it, really, but I can not for the life of me understand the logic behind this AU.

You made a big fucking deal about that Taylor is a girl of unbreakable will. She was worthy not by virtue that she went for what she felt was right in all instances despite the unimpressive guise of her power. despite the universe throwing it's best hooks and straights right in her face she stood up with a grimace, her knife and her swarm.

This Taylor? This Taylor is acting submissive, dizzy and actually downright pathetic if you want to be blunt. This is NOT Mjolnir behaviour. This is not even the behaviour of the canon Taylor who threw herself at the villains with a suicidal resolve because she thought she didn't have anything else worthwhile in her life.

This is the behaviour of a drug addict. "Everything is awesome when I hold the hammer, finally I'm someone great and powerful. With this hammer I'm great." There is no fucking way in the nine hells this would be considered worthy behaviour. She isn't doing it for others even, she is going good for her own sake, for her own glory. God dammit, she is using the hammer for the same reason Thor did when he was judged as unworthy of it.

The canon Taylor threw herself out into the cape world because it was litterally the only part of her life she didn't hate, because her keystone drive to make the world better and her subconscious wish for death. THAT in the end made her the warlord willed with DETERMINATION that pushed through and defeated Scion.

This was the biggest reason why I was very doubtful when it was a second Mjolnir (outside the fact that... you know SECOND MJOLNIR) instead of some other enchanted weapon of great power similar but ultimately different from Mjolnir since Taylor and Thor are VERY different people. When the AU elements came I assumed it was to enable Taylor to walk a parallel path that still lead to her fate of becoming the girl filled with DETERMINATION that Odin obviously saw as worthy. But that doesn't seem to be happening.

Make me understand. Am I getting the story wrong? Was the point of Odin's manipulation not to let Taylor walk the path she would but to become a completely different person from what he saw? IS this Taylor actually still going to become a person of such strength of character, such indomitable and resolute will that it makes the king of the gods himself pause at its mountain-like power? Because I'm sure as hell not seeing it.
 
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I don't understand the way people can make criticism after criticism about the same thing when the author has already said their piece. I mean really what do you expect them to change? There is a difference between fact checking and pointing out mistakes and asking someone to make major changes to the story they want to write FOR FREE and share with us FOR FREE. I have read plenty of stories where something happens that I don't like, but I have a reasonable understanding of what I can ask a writer to change and if I don't think that I'm going to like what they write I usually stop reading. I don't go ahead and push and push and push trying to get the author to change it or think up clever rhetoric and strong arguments against major parts of a story that isn't mine.

That's the differerence between constructive criticism and whining. You aren't building anything if you want to tear down the wall Someones built and then demand that it's built the way you want it to be built.

And at the end of the day you have to remember that the writers on this site owe you NOTHING, they do this for free and for their own enjoyment.
 
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Brandon Hume said:
I think I'm done. I don't think my style of writing is compatible with piecemeal releases, especially not if the only thing people want is instant gratification. I'm an asshole for what I've written and what I haven't written simultaneously. I'm also an asshole for having thin skin and objecting to their objections.
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No no no. Don't give them that satisfaction. I didn't realize how much I needed Taylor screaming and hitting things with a hammer until I read this! No, don't give up. DOUBLE DOWN. Have her land in the middle of the S9! Really get the haters pissed! Maybe I'll be able to hear their heads explode from where I'm sitting. We'll all win.

All joking aside: Fuck 'em. I enjoy the story and I hope you keep writing.

TheUnicorn said:
I hope you change your mind about keeping writing this story, but honestly if you're that thin skinned you probably should stop posting stories here,
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Yes, because that's a great message: "Hey, everyone's being an asshole to you, but it's YOUR FAULT because you actually care! You wimp."

I'd like to go on the record and state that each and every one of you who berated him for being "thin-skinned" or told him the story sucks without anything resembling constructive criticism are exactly the kind of people who need to sit down, shut up, and stop being the cancer that kills stories. You all suck. (The sole exception to this appears to be @BRG, who made a point of clarifying their response and apologizing for coming off like an asshole. You're cool in my book.) But for the rest of you.... STOP CHASING AWAY AUTHORS, ASSHOLES.
 
Brandon Hume said:
It's been made very clear to me that neither do I. Obviously I've completely misunderstood the source material.

The entire foundation is rotten, there's no point continuing.
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Shit happens. The rule of thumb is that you have to write a couple of shit stories before you can punch out the good ones.

Please do not feel like you can't try this again with the same premise. Marble crosses are way to rare in my opinion and every new one is welcome. Now that you know what doesn't work you can try again with the lessons you learned. Or try something completely different, the important thing is learning from the mistakes so you can do better next time
 
Thing is, this isn't a bad story per se, and it's by no means unreadable. Thor's dialogue is perfect. Taylor's attitudes without the hammer are less so, but if you had a plan for this story, your best bet was to stick to it in a general sense.

That said, I've found that having people to bounce ideas off of helps with my own writing. You need to find some people you trust, @Brandon Hume, and leverage them for keeping your ideas in check, making sure your pacing's correct, etc. Ultimately it's your story, and you need to make sure that you're happy with it in the end. Don't let a few bad criticisms ruin that for you. That said, when said criticisms have a point, you should consider them and how the rest of your story plans were.
 
Datcord said:
Yes, because that's a great message: "Hey, everyone's being an asshole to you, but it's YOUR FAULT because you actually care! You wimp."

I'd like to go on the record and state that each and every one of you who berated him for being "thin-skinned" or told him the story sucks without anything resembling constructive criticism are exactly the kind of people who need to sit down, shut up, and stop being the cancer that kills stories. You all suck. (The sole exception to this appears to be @BRG, who made a point of clarifying their response and apologizing for coming off like an asshole. You're cool in my book.) But for the rest of you.... STOP CHASING AWAY AUTHORS, ASSHOLES.
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It's quite possibly someone was being an asshole to the author, if so I missed it. What there was was a lot of constructive criticism about certain specific elements of the story. The point of posting and reading stories in a forum is that readers can provide such constructive criticism, not everyone wants such criticism and if you don't you should post elsewhere.
 
I agree Ellf, your writing is solid and the characterisation isn't bad just... wrong for these characters?

Really, the only grinding gears are Mjolnir and Taylor's behaviour. If it wasn't Mjolnir I would argue that this behaviour was perfectly in character and a delicious opening for a "reality ensures" moment. Taylor flying around acting like she always believes heroes are supposed to act like until Worm's grey and grey morality hits her and she realises that the heroes are asshole or jaded. Then she realises (or tattletale points out) that Taylor is using her powers like a heroin addict uses his needle.

Shows how devastating a simple narrative decision can be but also should show you that you are so close to a great story.
 
ITT: people use criticism, some valid and some not, and the author quits instead of just powering through.

You do you, not other people, if other people make you quit than that's on you.

A story about having Taylor not being defined about other people has the author caving after being defined by other people LOL!!!!
 
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I enjoyed it. I hope you don't stop because of the criticism. It feels awful when people diss your work, but other people love it so don't just quit because of that.
 
Just ignore the haters. Don't write for them, just write for the person who likes it and only that person. Don't believe in the Haters, believe in the me that likes this story.
 
ChaosRuneSmith said:
This is the behaviour of a drug addict. "Everything is awesome when I hold the hammer, finally I'm someone great and powerful. With this hammer I'm great." There is no fucking way in the nine hells this would be considered worthy behaviour. She isn't doing it for others even, she is going good for her own sake, for her own glory. God dammit, she is using the hammer for the same reason Thor did when he was judged as unworthy of it.
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Have you ever read worm? You're describing canon Taylor to a T.
 
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I really this hope story don't die because it is a really good story and to see just die in such a toxic way sucks. It was really and I want to see how it would end and to be honest I think Talyor character arc was perfect for the character. I can't blame you if you choose to stop but I would feel very disappointed if you did. Personally, I don't see what is wrong with this chapter. Station of canon? So what it play out differently and is not like every other station is going to be followed also other fics like A Finely Honed Blade, had the Lung fight and didn't get this much of a backlash. Station of are cannon are just events and people really need to stop act like there some kind of poison, how they are executed is far more important and deviating from canon does not automatedly a make story better.

Ramenth said:
Have you ever read worm? You're describing canon Taylor to a T.
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That is completely true, which what is this story is about. It is about Talyor a sense worth, it is even in the title! Talyor becomes a cape as means to escape her shitty life and get a sense of worth, which what is happening here. So I don't see the issue with how Talyor is being portrayed. You might say it is because she is using the hammer as a crutch, the same could be said of Skitter at least at first.

Overall this fic really is good and even if it is not what a lot of people wanted to read.
 
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Ramenth said:
Have you ever read worm? You're describing canon Taylor to a T.
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Taylor never threw her into danger for enjoyment. She was motivated by a suicidal obsession of being what she though a hero was. Name one instance were it is clear that Taylor enjoys being a cape before leaving her dad and I will consider the point. Otherwise I stand firmly by there being a distinct difference between going out because you enjoy the power of being a hero and going out because being a hero is the only worthwhile part of your life.
 
ChaosRuneSmith said:
Taylor never threw her into danger for enjoyment. She was motivated by a suicidal obsession of being what she though a hero was. Name one instance were it is clear that Taylor enjoys being a cape before leaving her dad and I will consider the point. Otherwise I stand firmly by there being a distinct difference between going out because you enjoy the power of being a hero and going out because being a hero is the only worthwhile part of your life.
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Maybe the reason she is enjoying because her powers actually feel good use, which I don't see a problem with that, not every version of Taylor has to be the same and whole only worthwhile part of your life, still there is it whole point of her character arc! She is still trying to act heroicly and Skitter was also about escapism and wanting to have relief. Taylor avoid her problems and basically joined supervillains because they filled a need even if they were questionable. Outside of being a bit of a blood knight, there isn't that much difference between this Talyor and the cannon.

Sorry but it sounds like this has more to do with your own personal taste than the quality of the story. Which is fine but perhaps you just drop the story and read something else.
 
Brandon Hume said:
It's been made very clear to me that neither do I. Obviously I've completely misunderstood the source material.

The entire foundation is rotten, there's no point continuing.
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Yeah, I'd just take a break from this whole situation if I were you.

Keep in mind though, the Marvel Universe has too many fans, both rabid and armchair, to generate any consensus in a forum of discourse. You're simply never going to be able to post a Marvel fic anywhere and have a nice discussion in the comments. Worm has the same issue to a degree for a number of reasons, not the least of which is that Taylor's character changed so much over the course of canon, a lot of people have trouble agreeing on which were her core traits and which were things she grew into. That's what we get for writing fanfiction about well developed characters (IE, not Naruto, or Harry Potter, or Thor [who is simultaneously one-dimensional and overdeveloped thanks to all the writers who have worked with him over the years]).

That said, I really hope you continue this story, because I was enjoying the plot, the writing, the characterizations, and the action. With all the whinging though I can hardly blame you for making a strategic withdrawal.
 
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I, for one, will leave this fic on my watch list. @Brandon Hume, if you ever take up this trial again, I'll be there to witness every struggling step of the way. This is one of the best fics I've read on SV, and considering that I've read A Cloudy Path and consider this one in the same category as 'worthy'... well, take that as you would.

I'm sorry the criticism has done in your motivation, but I hold out hope that one day you will return to us, and smite down the naysayers with thundrous zeal. In the mean time, do something you enjoy, and screw them all if they try to steal your enjoyment of it!
 
shinkicker444 said:
For fucks sake. Thanks for killing another story people. Well done. :mad:
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SV isn't a hugbox. If he can't handle criticism, he should be posting on FF.net with reviews disabled.

EDIT: To be clear, I'm not happy about it, either, but I can understand why people were upset about the constant school BS, and would feel the need to comment on it.
 
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