Reading some of the front sheets isn't this ridiculously low? These amount of soldiers/policemen cost more each year than the education and welfare budget for a planet numbering 15 billion people. I can't see how they'd be effective either at those numbers.
A Hive for The Galaxy (Sci-Fi CK2-style Quest)
- Thread starter The Laurent
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- Original
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- science fiction ck2 quest
Night_stalker
Slava Ukraini!
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- He/Him
We're reeling from that revolt, and I imagine a fair bit of people resigned.
OOC Question: Too Few Troops?
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- They/Them
It really isn't that low when there's not much to actually do with soldiers. They haven't been in a war in...well, they might have never been in a war in their entire history. And costs like supplies, uniforms, military equipment, etc etc is included in there, actually. I decided on a cost of one Wealth per every battalion or whatnot of 10k soldiers as a very easy and simple way to calculate it without getting into things like 'costs .793 Wealth' or anything like that. But yeah, the number of troops is relatively low from a percentage standard of a modern nation that has at least some chance of war/being-invaded.
On Gazinitah, they sit around most of the time or bust (or don't, often) criminals and those going against the state, and compete with each other and do wargames and generally...well, aren't that efficacious.
And yes, also more than a few resigned. But it was always underpopulated IF you're judging it by 21st century standards.
If it was the United States, a rich global superpower that has been involved in brushfire wars for the entire length of its hegemony, then (doing the math to come up with equivalents) they'd have just north of 60 million troops, INCLUDING (for Gazinitah) all of the support staff that I'm not counting because I was trying to give a reasonably simple number.
Japan, if blown up in size in this manner, would have 30 million troops.
So you definitely have too few troops by the standards of 21st century nation-states, but if you did call an extra 20 million, what would you use them for? Also, now that I think about it, that 10 million doesn't include naval or special forces, so it's probably higher than that, but hey.
TLDR: Gazinitah has never been in a war in its entire existance, unless you count a few actions against pirates or the like. By 21st century standards they should maybe have double or a little more in terms of troops. Instead, they don't. Luckily, since your budget would be sent crashing into the sea if you doubled your troop size. Also there may be screwy things involving what counts as 'local police' and so on. But until you divide them apart rather than counting them together, that's going to remain a mystery.
@Neptune , I hope this explanation makes sense.
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It answers the first part, so thank you there, it doesn't answer the second though about it costing more than the education and social welfare budget of a planet of 15 billion when it's been stated they are doing nothing very little and have no history of substantial conflicts nor high tech equipment.
I would still think numbers for a police force alone would be substantially larger though, given the current median per hundred thousand is 300 which for this population comes to 45 million total. While with technology you would expect the numbers to decrease, from your descriptions there seems to be a substantial amount of repression which would increase it so I can't imagine there being a great difference per capita.
I would still think numbers for a police force alone would be substantially larger though, given the current median per hundred thousand is 300 which for this population comes to 45 million total. While with technology you would expect the numbers to decrease, from your descriptions there seems to be a substantial amount of repression which would increase it so I can't imagine there being a great difference per capita.
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Hmm, good point. I might edit the description to point out that the 10 million represents the armed forces in barracks in specific batallions (IE, most likely to be troops) with the other variants and gradients (more likely to wind up split off as police) in other arrangements and thus not part of the counting.
If that makes sense? But yeah, I can admit that that part can be shifted around a bit, though ultimately the budget is still going to stay the same, even if there's the implication of far more numbers than that 10 million hinted at.
Edit: Edited in the slight change.
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- Location
- Dreiländereck
Hm, that was an exceptionally good turn.
A few thoughts:
Do I understand it correctly that our fleet has no real command hierachy?
At least our relationship with them and the colonies is good.
And I see a good opportunity to increase our revenue if talk to the merchants next turn.
We need to do something about the mines and our workers plight immediately, now that we are informed. If we do nothing breeds that resentment and it is the decent thing to do.
Further we need to continue our reform of the judicacy because clean and stable instituions of that kind are their weight worth in gold or credit cards or whatever we use.
I think we should push the criminal/revanchist network further, we have them on the backfoot, they need to lick their wounds and we can't give the enemy time to evolve.
As I said, just a few thoughts and depending on the options next turn it may be all invalid but who knows.
@The Laurent I don't remember seeing it anywhere but do you have infos on the Castesystem because if I understand it correctly, there are biological castes and artificial castes like the judges, could you elaborate on the system?
A few thoughts:
Do I understand it correctly that our fleet has no real command hierachy?
At least our relationship with them and the colonies is good.
And I see a good opportunity to increase our revenue if talk to the merchants next turn.
We need to do something about the mines and our workers plight immediately, now that we are informed. If we do nothing breeds that resentment and it is the decent thing to do.
Further we need to continue our reform of the judicacy because clean and stable instituions of that kind are their weight worth in gold or credit cards or whatever we use.
I think we should push the criminal/revanchist network further, we have them on the backfoot, they need to lick their wounds and we can't give the enemy time to evolve.
As I said, just a few thoughts and depending on the options next turn it may be all invalid but who knows.
@The Laurent I don't remember seeing it anywhere but do you have infos on the Castesystem because if I understand it correctly, there are biological castes and artificial castes like the judges, could you elaborate on the system?
OOC Info: Castes? P 1 of ???
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Some of this requires the caste research because the question is how much the castes are meaningful, but the typical/general opinion and teaching is that each of the castes is perfectly and specially bred and (over many, many centuries including some with higher standards of science than exist today) raised and trained to be best in their chosen field.
Those who are more learned are often able to get away, in Gazinitah with the term 'artificial castes' to describe one that *can't* be selected genetically. Like, how the hell do you attempt to biologically breed better judges?
Those castes, its very clear that any advantage they have is in two places: the laws set up to make sure they take the lions share of the jobs and power within that field, and the training they often receive from a young age to take over the position.
With the non-artitficial castes, its thought to be a combination of laws, education, and actual superiority, though to what degree is hotly debated.
And those castes that are less politically powerful and/or important might have less laws protecting them, or the need for a position might outstrip or understrip the Caste's ability to provide for it, the former leading to non-caste members getting in on it, the latter leading to a closed circle of elites dominating the job-field for the caste, with a ton of members basically cast out to do non-caste jobs in order to keep the relatively few jobs within the most important Xvorziti-Caste families.
There's more that could be said, but that's a basic, a little bit rough, explanation of the Castes.
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Well, I gotta hand it to ya. You are doing a fantastic job of making it feel like we just got off a revolution and need to put the pieces back together, while juggling sixteen plates on two sticks, and everything's about to catch on fire. This is not a bad thing, by the way, I'm certainly enjoying it.
Here I thought the Iashec was pocketing the money(so they lend us money to pay a ridiculous upkeep which they mostly loot through back channels)
Probably should get on that next.
You know...these two together don't seem to make economic sense.
Political sense yes(to keep them too worked to think and to start it young), but economically it's actually rather expensive moustache twirling.
Along with the traders, the police need government attention too.
I can't imagine the gangs got away with freaking tanks without the police being in on it to some extent.
He's waiting for someone alright.
I should hope this has merchandising.
You know just how horrifying it was before in that light.
*twitch*
So guys, do we want to put her into a position of responsibility immediately next turn or do we want to fully stabilize her and make sure she's gone clean before we put a lot of stress back onto her?
Arkatekt
Harbinger of Shitluck
Placing someone who is recovering from addiction (and is still suffering from several other mental conditions) into a position of great responsibility, and throwing on them all the stress that position generates, is a very good way to instigate a relapse.
Arkatekt
Harbinger of Shitluck
I'm not too sure about that actually. Our species doesn't do fighting all that often, so as long as we stay on top of the gangs and pirates, and do something to ease the police forces' worry, we shouldn't be in dire need of the advisor until Lashec goes aggro on us.
Of course, this is all conjecture and I've been awake far too long tonight, so I may just be spouting BS again. ^.^;
More for administration purposes. We're looking at a ridiculous number of things that must be addressed, and if we can't address enough issues they'd MAKE us take on an advisor to make sure they're addressed.
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On the one hand you're right, it makes no grand economic sense...but it should be remembered that so too, in a governmental way, did most colonies (historically, talking about Africa especially) not make a profit.
People under those governments, though, were quite able to take advantage of the fact that someone else was footing the bill for it. And similarly, yes, while ultimately the child labor's economically stupid, it helps individual factories meet production quotas and saves a few red cents in what you'd pay an actual worker that can then be skimmed off the top and/or embezzled or invested.
Ah, economic makework to create another layer to skim money from, and probably a place to harvest slaves unnoticed.
In the Sun's Orbit, Part 1: Selection
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In the Sun's Orbit, Part 1: Selection
Vorzhan worked as fast as they could, both before and after the Gang War, to get it set up. It was complicated, since whoever went had to both travel in secret and yet arrive in a manner that was fitting of an ambassador. These, though, were all problems that were easily enough managed. Ships could be found, protocol systems could be looked up and desperately loaded into the computer databases, translator modules of good quality could be found for the diplomat, whoever that turned out to be, and more dubious ones for the crew to allow them to go on leave.
Whoever it turned out to be indeed! There was much whistling and indecision over that matter. Who should go? Three candidates rose to the top.
First there was Vorzhan themselves. They were rather diplomatic, and they were the leader of the Hive. Their words would carry weight and authority in a way that didn't allow the possibility that Gazinitah might be bound in another bad deal, another Diplomat Caste boondoggle. Yet they didn't know much about human culture, didn't know the language, and on a more secret note, it would create scheduling complications for the infiltration they planned on doing. And yet the idea of meeting leader to leader was still very tempting.
Second, Kikkizit could go. He knew a lot about human culture, had a gift for gab, and some of his reputation had apparently made it to galactic media, at least enough for him to be known as a 'revolutionary intellectual' or something like that, and thus it wouldn't seem out of place to send them. But they didn't know the diplomatic protocol and while they were savvy with numbers and well-rounded, there were certainly things they'd have to be learning about on the fly.
Finally, Tezthen was a member of the Diplomatic Castes suggested by them. A background check showed few of the troubling qualities that had been seen in others, and she was clever and quick on her feet, if not so charming as Kikkizit. She knew the protocol very well and was something of a policy expert on the Sol Republic, at least in theory, but this also meant she had some associations among Xvorzit with the old organization, and while she checked out in terms of 'not being behind total screw-ups and not being corrupt', it was at least possible she harbored some of the attitudes or policy beliefs of the old government, though it was also clear that she was loyal to the new one. And while an experienced diplomat might show seriousness of purpose, it might also represent a lack of seriousness. Debates rage on both sides of that, as well as towards the previous three choices. Human psychology is complicated and weird, their politics complex and labyrinthean, and only Tezthen, or perhaps Kikkizit has the right knowledge.
Any of the three would be acceptable, but there aren't really any other choices that would work, at least in all of the right ways.
Who Goes? (Will be your viewpoint character, will influence things and rolls.)
[] Vorzhan themselves go. Pros: Possible signs that this is a serious mission, leader gets personal supervision over the deals, potential other side benefits. Cons: Lack of knowledge about diplomatic protocol and human culture and the human languages (though translators do exist). Might complicate the 'Casino Royale' mission.
[] Send Kikkizit Instead. Pros: Very charming, knowledgeable about human culture, somewhat well known, has some knowledge of the most common human languages spoken on Sol. Cons: Lack of diplomatic protocol knowledge, treaties and economic policy *aren't* his area of expertise.
[] Or you could send Tezthen. Pros: Pretty charming, knowledgeable about the politics and such about Sol, knows most if not all of the major human languages and their nuances. Cons: Less well known, associated with the old order and way of doing things, entrenched in certain modes of thinking...possibly. Also not an economist.
Vorzhan worked as fast as they could, both before and after the Gang War, to get it set up. It was complicated, since whoever went had to both travel in secret and yet arrive in a manner that was fitting of an ambassador. These, though, were all problems that were easily enough managed. Ships could be found, protocol systems could be looked up and desperately loaded into the computer databases, translator modules of good quality could be found for the diplomat, whoever that turned out to be, and more dubious ones for the crew to allow them to go on leave.
Whoever it turned out to be indeed! There was much whistling and indecision over that matter. Who should go? Three candidates rose to the top.
First there was Vorzhan themselves. They were rather diplomatic, and they were the leader of the Hive. Their words would carry weight and authority in a way that didn't allow the possibility that Gazinitah might be bound in another bad deal, another Diplomat Caste boondoggle. Yet they didn't know much about human culture, didn't know the language, and on a more secret note, it would create scheduling complications for the infiltration they planned on doing. And yet the idea of meeting leader to leader was still very tempting.
Second, Kikkizit could go. He knew a lot about human culture, had a gift for gab, and some of his reputation had apparently made it to galactic media, at least enough for him to be known as a 'revolutionary intellectual' or something like that, and thus it wouldn't seem out of place to send them. But they didn't know the diplomatic protocol and while they were savvy with numbers and well-rounded, there were certainly things they'd have to be learning about on the fly.
Finally, Tezthen was a member of the Diplomatic Castes suggested by them. A background check showed few of the troubling qualities that had been seen in others, and she was clever and quick on her feet, if not so charming as Kikkizit. She knew the protocol very well and was something of a policy expert on the Sol Republic, at least in theory, but this also meant she had some associations among Xvorzit with the old organization, and while she checked out in terms of 'not being behind total screw-ups and not being corrupt', it was at least possible she harbored some of the attitudes or policy beliefs of the old government, though it was also clear that she was loyal to the new one. And while an experienced diplomat might show seriousness of purpose, it might also represent a lack of seriousness. Debates rage on both sides of that, as well as towards the previous three choices. Human psychology is complicated and weird, their politics complex and labyrinthean, and only Tezthen, or perhaps Kikkizit has the right knowledge.
Any of the three would be acceptable, but there aren't really any other choices that would work, at least in all of the right ways.
Who Goes? (Will be your viewpoint character, will influence things and rolls.)
[] Vorzhan themselves go. Pros: Possible signs that this is a serious mission, leader gets personal supervision over the deals, potential other side benefits. Cons: Lack of knowledge about diplomatic protocol and human culture and the human languages (though translators do exist). Might complicate the 'Casino Royale' mission.
[] Send Kikkizit Instead. Pros: Very charming, knowledgeable about human culture, somewhat well known, has some knowledge of the most common human languages spoken on Sol. Cons: Lack of diplomatic protocol knowledge, treaties and economic policy *aren't* his area of expertise.
[] Or you could send Tezthen. Pros: Pretty charming, knowledgeable about the politics and such about Sol, knows most if not all of the major human languages and their nuances. Cons: Less well known, associated with the old order and way of doing things, entrenched in certain modes of thinking...possibly. Also not an economist.
Dark Ness
Rises Where Silence Dies
- Location
- The Primordial Soup
[X] Or you could send Tezthen. Pros: Pretty charming, knowledgeable about the politics and such about Sol, knows most if not all of the major human languages and their nuances. Cons: Less well known, associated with the old order and way of doing things, entrenched in certain modes of thinking...possibly. Also not an economist.
Night_stalker
Slava Ukraini!
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- He/Him
[X] Send Kikkizit Instead. Pros: Very charming, knowledgeable about human culture, somewhat well known, has some knowledge of the most common human languages spoken on Sol. Cons: Lack of diplomatic protocol knowledge, treaties and economic policy *aren't* his area of expertise.
- Location
- Dreiländereck
[X] Or you could send Tezthen. Pros: Pretty charming, knowledgeable about the politics and such about Sol, knows most if not all of the major human languages and their nuances. Cons: Less well known, associated with the old order and way of doing things, entrenched in certain modes of thinking...possibly. Also not an economist.
I am for sending the trained diplomat. She is apparently loyal, knows how to talk to humans and their politics and in the end I think it is more about a positive contact with Sol and maybe aid and not directly tradetreaties. At least I hope so.
I am for sending the trained diplomat. She is apparently loyal, knows how to talk to humans and their politics and in the end I think it is more about a positive contact with Sol and maybe aid and not directly tradetreaties. At least I hope so.
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[X] Send Kikkizit Instead. Pros: Very charming, knowledgeable about human culture, somewhat well known, has some knowledge of the most common human languages spoken on Sol. Cons: Lack of diplomatic protocol knowledge, treaties and economic policy *aren't* his area of expertise.
Can't send Vorzhan because we don't wanna mess up Casino Royale, and while Tezthen is a trained diplomat, I don't want the first diplomatic meeting between us and Sol to be between them and someone associated with the old way of doing things. And that line "entrenched in certain modes of thinking...possibly" makes me inclined towards not sending her. Image is important, and while Kikkizit might not know humans that well, or be a diplomat, sending a "revolutionary intellectual" would cast us in a better light, I think.
Can't send Vorzhan because we don't wanna mess up Casino Royale, and while Tezthen is a trained diplomat, I don't want the first diplomatic meeting between us and Sol to be between them and someone associated with the old way of doing things. And that line "entrenched in certain modes of thinking...possibly" makes me inclined towards not sending her. Image is important, and while Kikkizit might not know humans that well, or be a diplomat, sending a "revolutionary intellectual" would cast us in a better light, I think.
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He actually does know a good deal about human culture...in general. The comparison would be like, "I'm an expert in 19th century British Literature and culture, so clearly that qualifies me to be ambassador to Great Britain in 2015, right?" It does, though, give knowledge about human cultures, languages and mores which means they're not going completely in the dark about a lot of things. If that makes sense. Their knowledge of humans is non-political (mostly), more cultural and historical.
[X] Send Kikkizit Instead. Pros: Very charming, knowledgeable about human culture, somewhat well known, has some knowledge of the most common human languages spoken on Sol. Cons: Lack of diplomatic protocol knowledge, treaties and economic policy *aren't* his area of expertise.
- Location
- Canada
[X] Send Kikkizit Instead. Pros: Very charming, knowledgeable about human culture, somewhat well known, has some knowledge of the most common human languages spoken on Sol. Cons: Lack of diplomatic protocol knowledge, treaties and economic policy *aren't* his area of expertise.
[X] Send Kikkizit Instead. Pros: Very charming, knowledgeable about human culture, somewhat well known, has some knowledge of the most common human languages spoken on Sol. Cons: Lack of diplomatic protocol knowledge, treaties and economic policy *aren't* his area of expertise.
Will he go with a monocle?
Will he go with a monocle?