Well, the two are basically the exact same thing, so that's not surprising.
A Green Sun Illuminates the Void (ZnT/Exalted)
- Thread starter EarthScorpion
- Start date
Basically, this. It's toxic because it doesn't give you reasons why you'd actually want to play a GSP. And also because... Exalted!Hell is not a typical hell, by any means. In fact, quite the opposite; it's a strange, alien place, but there's not really anything particularly evil about it, per sé. Yes, it's a horribly place for humans, and it's a broken society where only strength matters, but part of the thing is that it was the Exalted and the Incarna that set it up that way. Basically, it's a prison, and therefore the denizens act like prisoners; they form gangs, clustering together to try to get safety from the place, fighting over resources and territory. Chapter 1 utterly loses this strange, alien beauty, for rape and violence which could fit into any other fantasy hell (as well as getting Adorjan completely wrong, because she's not a pseudo-Neverborn-obsessed-with-killing-everything; she's our darling Yander Joker-Buddha, who'd cut off your legs because they weigh you down and stop you running quickly enough).Alectai said:
But all that's almost irrelevant. Simply, this is meant to be the Infernal book, not the Yozi book, and this falls into the same trap as 1st Ed Alchemicals, in that it doesn't focus on the GSPs, but on the Yozi and the Reclamation, and so it limits the GSPs, with the idea that they're "meant" in game play to be playing Reclamation games. It's like an Abyssals book which only talks about the Deathlords and their plans, and makes no provision for Renegades, except worse, because Ren!Abyssals still kill the world due to Resonance. There is nothing like that for GSPs; an independent GSP can do anything that an independent Solar can, storywise, but... well, with a more interesting focus. Mind-raping a society into obedience with the horribly effective Solar Socialise Charms is boring, compared to doing it the GSP way, with Cecelyne charms.
Actually... after discussion with friends... yes, GSPs are almost more akin to nega-Sidereals, in the way that Abyssals are nega-Solars, in the way you play; you have a tool kit, and you have to try to use it to solve a problem.
That's why Chapter 7, in Infernals, which is the Storyteller's Chapter, is a much,much better thing, because it's what explains that actual GSP characters are doing, and how they're just as free-willed as Solars.
TheLastOne
Person of impeccable tastes (for destruction)
Weighying in to the whole 'Does Lousie lose her Void Magic debate (except not, because this is a church, and the voice of the pope is the voice of god, or something like that),' I'm going to say I think it's a bad idea. Not because she needs void magic (It's big, yes, but it's also slow, and by the time she could fire it off she could usually have done something better/more epic), but because the villain's of the series need someone who inherited the Void magic of destruction.
Whatever happened when Brimir died devided up his magic into four parts, and they haven't show up again (at least all at once), until just 'now,' and everyones evil plan's seem to depend on either gathering up all the lost fragments of void magic, or focus on claiming the fragment of destruction.
I'll admit that it's been a long time since I poked my head into the novels, and when I did it was a quick skim because people kept instisting it was so much better then the Anime (I didn't really think it was), so I've probably lost a lot of details and substituted them with other peoples speculations. Still, from what I remember their are basicly two major plan's that require the Fragment of the Void that governs it's destuctive power. Joseph, who seems to be trying to gather up all four Void users, so that he can recreated Brimir power and be like onto a god, and the Pope who need the Gandalfr to use as a living scarifice in the genocide spell that he wants to aim at the elves.
Yes, both plans could be done with options that access to creation will open up, but I would disagree with this choice for thematic reasons.
A villain tends to be characterized in a very different way then any other player in a story. We'll only see snipits from their perspective, usually to hint at their dark plots, to kick a dog so that we know their evil son's of bitches, or to pet a dog so that we know that they aren't and we must oppose them for reasons other then their own moral character (that is to say, that there are shades of gray). What really defines the villains in a tale is:
Where they start; Is he an evil prince, is she a coldblooded but clever thief, is she a black-hearted lawyer, is he a arrogant diabolist playing with forces he can't control?
What methods do they use; He legisates terrible laws undercutting the heroes efforts, she sneaks into their campsite and slits their throats, she assults the legitimacy of their endeveurs and turns the world against them, he someone more and more terrible demons to break enough of the world that he can reshape it in form he desires.
What their endgame is; He's going to cause a war with a neighboring kingdom, she's going to steal the gem of winds, she's going to make a ton of money from her backers, he's going to bind lucifer himself.
And lastly, what is their final goal; Regardless of who wins the two kingdomes will be united and cease their age old feud, she's going to be rich enough her older sister won't have to whore herself out anymore, she's be able to retire, he'll be able to bring his wife back from the dead.
You can change one on these, and still have the same character, but if you change two, they'll feel really really different in the story. You've changed their methods, a solar level Exalt is just to much, so they'll have to change to adapt. If you also change their endgame, they won't feel like the same villain's anymore.
None of this is to say that Lousie needs to be able to really use her own Void magic. Maybe it reduces the dicepool used to cast it to zero before being enhanced by exellencies and auto-success adders, and no primoridal exellency could support it, so until she becuase a devil-tiger she can't use it, but her void magic should still exist for the perposes of other people using it.
Whatever happened when Brimir died devided up his magic into four parts, and they haven't show up again (at least all at once), until just 'now,' and everyones evil plan's seem to depend on either gathering up all the lost fragments of void magic, or focus on claiming the fragment of destruction.
I'll admit that it's been a long time since I poked my head into the novels, and when I did it was a quick skim because people kept instisting it was so much better then the Anime (I didn't really think it was), so I've probably lost a lot of details and substituted them with other peoples speculations. Still, from what I remember their are basicly two major plan's that require the Fragment of the Void that governs it's destuctive power. Joseph, who seems to be trying to gather up all four Void users, so that he can recreated Brimir power and be like onto a god, and the Pope who need the Gandalfr to use as a living scarifice in the genocide spell that he wants to aim at the elves.
Yes, both plans could be done with options that access to creation will open up, but I would disagree with this choice for thematic reasons.
A villain tends to be characterized in a very different way then any other player in a story. We'll only see snipits from their perspective, usually to hint at their dark plots, to kick a dog so that we know their evil son's of bitches, or to pet a dog so that we know that they aren't and we must oppose them for reasons other then their own moral character (that is to say, that there are shades of gray). What really defines the villains in a tale is:
Where they start; Is he an evil prince, is she a coldblooded but clever thief, is she a black-hearted lawyer, is he a arrogant diabolist playing with forces he can't control?
What methods do they use; He legisates terrible laws undercutting the heroes efforts, she sneaks into their campsite and slits their throats, she assults the legitimacy of their endeveurs and turns the world against them, he someone more and more terrible demons to break enough of the world that he can reshape it in form he desires.
What their endgame is; He's going to cause a war with a neighboring kingdom, she's going to steal the gem of winds, she's going to make a ton of money from her backers, he's going to bind lucifer himself.
And lastly, what is their final goal; Regardless of who wins the two kingdomes will be united and cease their age old feud, she's going to be rich enough her older sister won't have to whore herself out anymore, she's be able to retire, he'll be able to bring his wife back from the dead.
You can change one on these, and still have the same character, but if you change two, they'll feel really really different in the story. You've changed their methods, a solar level Exalt is just to much, so they'll have to change to adapt. If you also change their endgame, they won't feel like the same villain's anymore.
None of this is to say that Lousie needs to be able to really use her own Void magic. Maybe it reduces the dicepool used to cast it to zero before being enhanced by exellencies and auto-success adders, and no primoridal exellency could support it, so until she becuase a devil-tiger she can't use it, but her void magic should still exist for the perposes of other people using it.
Not true. Adorjan, for example, is busy trying to make the elemental pole of Adorjan (well... maybe the element would be Silence, Murder, Freedom, or possibly Yandere), while She Who Lives In Her Name has the Charm, from the Broken Winged Crane, which is the first ever Total Control effect in the game, hits children hardest, can't be reversed, and makes them into nice little borg drones who can't Exalt,which she's going to feed through a connected network of manses, and... yeah.Alectai said:
Oh, and Szoreny is planning to betray the Reclamation to get bail for him and Isidoros. And hasn't told his boyfriend about this plan.
The other have plans, too, not just Ebby.
It's funny you should mention it. Because there's something that jumps onto a soul at birth, and doesn't awaken until later in Creation, too. And do you know what happens if another Exaltation type wants the pre-Exalation Sidereal? The Sidereal Shard fucks right off, and goes and finds itself a new baby. Seriously. I have written fusion fics before. I know all about merging cosmologies. And the Exaltation does absolutely preclude other power sources, as does narrative structure. I mean, that would be template stacking, and that would be bad.TheLastOne said:
Of course, she's now a Creature of Darkness, and Outside of Fate to boot. She's always going to be a tearing hole in other people's plans. I mean... heh, the humans believe that Void is holy, after all.
But... seriously. I do know about villains, and how they plan, and their goals. I do take account of things. You haven't even seen the deeper metaphysics of this stuff. Hence, Void-Potential exists, that much is true. And Louise doesn't have it any more. But this change will be enough to cause other ramifications. Maybe it jumped to someone else in the area. Maybe there's a baby just born, who suddenly screamed, and opened its eyes. Maybe it means that another child has just been conceived with Void.
TheLastOne
Person of impeccable tastes (for destruction)
Concidering how long it waited to poke it's head up last time, it would be a little bit weird if it immedeately popped up again. I just don't want all of the Zero no Tsukaima villains to become nothing more then the fingerpuppets of Exalted villains, or have what made them unique desolved and have them all forced to grap onto other peoples shtick to stay relivent. They have their own shticks and plans, and even if those plan's are derailed, they should stay somewhat relevent.
Remember, actually, the Familiar of Zero world is more-Exalt-resilient than most other worlds, especially with the fusion metaphysics work. For one, because as has been mentioned, Dot corresponds to Essence 2, and then each grade increases by 1, then there's actually a large number of people who are not mortals in Exalted mechanical terms. Add that to the fact that a Line mage can emulate a bunch of Emerald Circle Sorcery-like abilities, and this isn't going to be a curbstomp by any means. Likewise, it seems to be fairly hard to get here from Creation, whatever the precise link is, so it's not just going to turn into DEPLOY THE POPEKUMA!TheLastOne said:
Well, at least, until Autocthonia opens the Seal of Eight Divinities to here.
I will leave it up to you to decide if I'm joking here.
TheLastOne
Person of impeccable tastes (for destruction)
You aren't, because steampunk super-robots are cool and all stories need 300% more of them? ;7
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Yeah, Infernal Charms get to be cool, and SWLIHN is all about the Brain Hacking routine
Another fun bit is that she secretly learned how to scream loudly enough to turn people into crystals, and then explode them! And this can be done from every terminal she's haxxed with Mind Spider Curse!
So anything that isn't her slave explodes! Fun!
Another fun bit is that she secretly learned how to scream loudly enough to turn people into crystals, and then explode them! And this can be done from every terminal she's haxxed with Mind Spider Curse!
So anything that isn't her slave explodes! Fun!
Based on what we seen, it could only appear in someone of royal blood. But that is just a theory.EarthScorpion said:
Arthur Hansen
Author of no Authority.
- Location
- Utah, behind the Zion Curtain.
True, but I don't know that Prophecy will be so easily denied.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
The only way it could get better after this is if Louise binds her exaltation to Autochthon.EarthScorpion said:Well, at least, until Autocthonia opens the Seal of Eight Divinities to here.
I will leave it up to you to decide if I'm joking here.
Admittedly, that would require a new charmset completely for him. But still, it would be awesome.
What would the first Autochthon excellency be? Bonus to creating things? Bonus to getting revenge? Bonus to SCIENCE!?
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Pretty much, you'd need to Fetich Kill him, then extract the clauses in his Charmset that say 'If Autochthon ever suffers Fetich Death, his sickness gets even worse' before he has a chance to properly reconstruct it.
So, you basically have five days to cure Autochthon before you're dealing with the Engine of Extinction, have fun!
So, you basically have five days to cure Autochthon before you're dealing with the Engine of Extinction, have fun!
mkire
Lee-ko is adorable, as always
Might i recommend a setting for you?TheLastOne said:
http://www.goodman-games.com/dragonmech.html
is delicious steampunk goodness with super-robots, as long as you ignore the logical impossibility of 2600 ft tall walking cities belching steam
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I admit, I'd play that game.Stormgear said:
At one point I was trying to play that game, but the GM didn't agree with me. "Stop being ridiculous" quoth he. "In Exalted?!?" exclaimed I. Yet the other players agreed with him.havocfett said:
consequences
Not A Nice Person At All
- Location
- Jerkville
Feh. If you aren't going to have the players storm Heaven only to be confronted by Chejop Kejak, who then gets Suddenly Yet Inevitably Betrayed by Nara-O who then reveals the 200 Sidereal masters serving Oblivion whose very existence was edited from the Loom of Fate during the Usurpation, what's the damned point?Rathmun said:At one point I was trying to play that game, but the GM didn't agree with me. "Stop being ridiculous" quoth he. "In Exalted?!?" exclaimed I. Yet the other players agreed with him.
Your GM probably wouldn't even let me use Meditative Battlefield Escalation as a sacrifice play while falling into the Void in order to deceive the Neverborn into believing that Creation had been utterly destroyed so they would resume their slumber.
A brick wall armoured with brass and on (green, radioactive) fire.Stormgear said:
And, yes, in the long term narrative, Driven Beyond Death is on Louise's "To Buy" list, even if she doesn't know that it exists yet. It's basically made to activate Demon Emperor Shintai, Ark-of-the-Covenant style.
She would also "like" Follow the Leader ("No using magic! Bwhahahaha Overdrive Motes for me~eee!"), but that's sealed off behind the 1st SWLiHN Excellency.)
Binds? No. That actually can't happen; as Primordial Exalted, the GSPs are immune to Akumisation (and also can't be put in a Monstrance, without detonating... explosively). However, as a Primordial Charmset, it can be internalised, and "saved" on the GSP hardware.havocfett said:
And then, back in Creation, the Yozis end up mystified when the first signs of robocancer start cropping up in the GSPs.
Malfeas: "DRAAAAAAAAAAAAGON!!!!!!!!"
Ebon Dragon: "uh, not my fault, boss. i blame adorjan."
Adorjan: "....................................." [TRANSLATION FROM SILENCE: "I'm a murder-death-silent-wind! Wheeeeeeee!"]
Ebon Dragon: "oh me, the pain! the pain!"
Correct. I'm also the person who first noticed that the robocancer has got to his Sorcery Initiation, and that's why Alchemicals use Weaving Protocols; if you note, the Void-Tainted module that gives Apostates sorcery and necromancy displays Primordial-style spell warping.Alectai said:
They'd probably notice the first day. I mean, failing to summon anything (as far as anybody knows, at least) is a pretty big failure, so I could imagine Colbert, Osmond, whoever passes for her 'tutor' or whoever's responsible for dealing with exams wanting to meet with her to 'discuss her future'. The chrysalis is hardly in a hidden spot, so I think they should find it fairly rapidly, then try t find out what the fuck it is. IIRC, they're supposed to be basically invulnerable, so they wouldn't break it, but I can imagine Louise emerging in the middle of a bunch of rather surprised triangle mages.
Delusionist
Seeker of Truth
- Location
- Land of the Fruits and Nuts
There's also the fact that Infernal exaltation typically causes at the very least minor alterations to the subject's appearance, in accordance with the type of demon that becomes their coadjutor. It's not likely to be enough to the point where people wouldn't recognize her, but anyone who was familiar with her would notice pretty quickly that something was different about her.Screwball said:They'd probably notice the first day. I mean, failing to summon anything (as far as anybody knows, at least) is a pretty big failure, so I could imagine Colbert, Osmond, whoever passes for her 'tutor' or whoever's responsible for dealing with exams wanting to meet with her to 'discuss her future'. The chrysalis is hardly in a hidden spot, so I think they should find it fairly rapidly, then try t find out what the fuck it is. IIRC, they're supposed to be basically invulnerable, so they wouldn't break it, but I can imagine Louise emerging in the middle of a bunch of rather surprised triangle mages.
RadiantPhoenix
Trudging up the Hill
- Location
- USA, Earth
- Pronouns
- She/Her
But would that be the first thing they would notice?
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Not quite, that would be one of the 'I have a billion fingers' Demons that play music off the air, one that I can't remember the name of offhand.Screwball said: