A Game of Crowns (Mafia)

Can you write out how you believe the game is structured and why you have selected Pyrros over DG or any other individuals you believe are lynch worthy today? Thank you in advance. Same for @1KBestK.

I believe we're looking at between 3-5 man scum team who can communicate. Evidence of a single kill every night supports that much at least. And right now I think the only claim that is notable as a deception is Pyrros's from my own view point.

Something to note however, I could be completely wrong about DG and his is the false claim. Reasoning for this is possibly the RB came at me N1 and it went to nani, and thus scum knew that. However that tells me they wouldn't have bothered targeting me in the first place unless it became a consistant error. Scum can't expect transporter when Even got constantly roleblocked so they would have been wary going after me based on that and DG's claim either comes from honesty from their N1 result, or a construction based on group N1 results and what has been stated as absum's results. It's a toss up and what nails it for me is simply I don't expect a 5 man scum, so if there are 4 scum, this isn't a good spot to put yourself in and if 3 scum, even less so.

If DG was scum, I'd have expected them to claim vanilla and thus make my claim look suspect.

Pyrros was right about Nictis being sus, but at the same time hasn't convinced me that they're town. When he pushed against your claim I believe Day 3? It was something that could have easily been deduced given the circumstances, Nictis was just a guardsman, LttL teammate was an old man seemingly, the scribe was dead and there's nothing saying it was a major scribe I believe. I've been looking more keenly at those who seemed to have a lot more knowledge then they should have after the Nictis flip. Pyrros seemed that way.

In addition, here is how I feel it goes if either are scum

Pyrros being scum makes you and IH look sus, but in a hardline, I'd say IH would be the more suspect one.
Pyrros is town, meaning DG is scum, It'd be 1K on the plate right behind DG I think. If the game went longer it'd be me since I'd be baffled between you and IH.

If we wanted a 3rd lynch option...right now I'd go IH given how the roleblocker homed in on Even despite them knowing Nictis actually isn't VIP in their set-up. It was a play to both Push the idea of the VIP game to secure Nictis in place, while also preventing a larger private discussion in the Mason-Neighborhood.


So yeah, right now I'm staying on Pyrros
 
I'm at work right now. I'd like to look over things more carefully this evening at home. Right now I'm leaning towards @Cyricubed but I'm not sure.
 
okay, setup spec. The idea of a completely uncoordinated scum team is based off of wild speculation and Evenstar reading in way too much to day 1 posts that I don't think have some sort of deeper meaning like she seems to. The most egregious example of that is nictis's "claim." If cult + SK is too bastard to be unannounced, that seems almost more bastard. I think a far, far more reasonable and simple explanation is that there are two scum teams (or one scum team and a redirect, but I think that's less likely). As Even said herself, Occam's Razor...

Let's look at these kills.
@QTesseract is found within his quarters, a pulped mass of blood, bone shards, and grey matter where his skull used to be.
The new corpse is discovered shortly after dawn. Despite the shattered jaw and pulverized rib cage, it is still identifiable as that of Captain Orton Vastare, head of the castle guard.
The first corpse of the day is that of @Absum , found folded in half on the floor of the hallway outside her quarters.
The first corpse is the most worrying. A member of the Castle Guard, Geralt, lying on the floor of his trashed quarters with his head facing the wrong direction. He's almost thought to be one of the kingdom's men, before someone notices the symbol of the Bloodletter Brotherhood tattooed on one leg.
These are all flavored consistently. They're all brute strength killings. You might be able to argue that kills 3 & 4 are different from 1 & 2 on account of less smashing and more folding/twisting, but I think it's close enough that it's pretty consistent. Let's look at Nictis and LttL's flavor.
The day draws to an end, and the crowd murmurs ominously, closing in on their chosen victim. When it becomes apparent that Lysander Roth will not be leaving alive, he sighs and straightens his suit, saying his final piece.

Then he explodes.

The form of the aged butler is torn to shreds as another figure erupts from within the suit of skin, throwing itself at the crowd and burrowing into their ranks like an arrow into a wound. All anyone can glimpse are flashes of claws and fangs and sun-bronzed muscle as the monster rips its way through the ranks of the soldiers, before eventually dropping from the dozens of wounds it sustained during its rampage.

Cautiously, the corpse is approached and examined. They prove to be one of the half-beast savages from the far south, which would normally raise questions as to "what the fuck is it doing here?", but the sigil of the Bloodletter Brotherhood etched into its flesh answers that question quite handily. It seems somebody left an assassin running around without calling them off.
For LttL, we've got one 'half-beast savage' that explodes out of the 'suit of skin.' In combat, it's described as using its claws and fangs. It 'rips through the ranks.' We've got no mention of claw or bite marks, no lacerations whatsoever. LttL does not match the kill flavor. In Addition: Even if you believe that NK 1 & 2 were done by a different person than 3 & 4, LttL was lynched Day 2. There's no way they killed that night, they were dead. So, in conclusion, LttL did not kill this game.
The first corpse is the most worrying. A member of the Castle Guard, Geralt, lying on the floor of his trashed quarters with his head facing the wrong direction. He's almost thought to be one of the kingdom's men, before someone notices the symbol of the Bloodletter Brotherhood tattooed on one leg.
Nictis is flavored as being a member of the Castle Guard. He's an undercover agent of the Bloodletter Brotherhood. This is more debatable, but I see nothing here that indicates he'd be killing this brutally. Reminder:
Cautiously, the corpse is approached and examined. They prove to be one of the half-beast savages from the far south, which would normally raise questions as to "what the fuck is it doing here?", but the sigil of the Bloodletter Brotherhood etched into its flesh answers that question quite handily. It seems somebody left an assassin running around without calling them off.
The 'Bloodletter Brotherhood' are known to us as assassins. He's indistinguishable (beyond the tattoo) from the rest of the Guard. I wager that he's like a passive Godfather that only applies to himself, i.e. if a cop checked him he'd show up Town. If the captain of the guard (naminani iirc) was a cop, it'd make sense that a fellow guardsman would pass their check. LttL was similarly hidden - he literally wore a suit of skin as a disguise. The kills we've seen aren't assassinations, they aren't 'half-beast' attacks, they aren't done with a blade. They're, in a word, barbaric. As in, the barbarians of Reim. I've said myself they might be a red herring, but at this point I think it lines up too well and i need to commit. On top of that, it was nictis who died, so unless he both targeted Cyri and was retargeted to himself (which we don't even know Cyri could do, and only if he's actually being truthful about his role), there's no way he made that kill. All in all, I don't believe nictis killed this game. I believe all four kills were done by a yet unflipped faction of barbarians.

I think, given how it seems like Nictis had info about Evenstar's QT, that his goal was to infiltrate their QT or kill her (or both, maybe with infiltrating resulting in a kill). He was clearly trying to get in her good graces. From that perspective, he swung the lynch onto LttL to build up more town credit. That's a rather risky play, no matter what the reason, and it's why I believe that there are two teams. The roleblocker is pretty likely to be scum, something i think we can pretty much all agree on at this point, especially since they haven't claimed. They were also repeatedly blocking Evenstar, which threw a big wrench into Nictis's plan. Now, it's possible that a kill could've been redirected into nictis, but at this point I think it's more likely that the other scum team (with the RBer) either bought into Nictis's lie and killed him thinking he was actually the VIP, or somehow saw through his ruse, although honestly I feel like the former is more likely. Note how the killer(s) seemed to be waiting until they killed the doc until they targeted nictis. They waited to kill him until after Absum died, and didn't immediately go for him when he 'revealed' himself.

I think we've got one traditional maf team in the form of the barbarians and one nonstandard scum team in the for of the Bloodletter Brotherhood. A lot of things line up for that. There's a possibility that the killer is an SK that can also RB, but I think that's less likely. I'm choosing to believe DG's claim over Pyrros's because of my previous reasoning, as well as because the way in which Pyrros defended themselves read as sus to me, with trying to keep the 'we're all town and there's a redirector' option on the table. Feels like they're trying to stay on everyone's good side. Also, looking back over their posting, I don't have a scum read on DG beyond a tone one. I'm choosing to believe the potential PR with a decently believable claim over the person claiming VT. This post is probably my final amount of big effort I'm going to put in for today because I still need to do more work and honestly trying to play this game is just stressing me out at this point. I don't have the energy to be doing much more backreading. I don't have much (if any) confidence left in me either about my ability to read people.
 

Hmm, was hoping it'd be more enlightening as to confirm that Evenstar and Meso are not a second scum team. Was and is an unlikely theory, but due diligence demanded I ask. Doesn't give me much on if that passing thought is false though, but town having a neighborizer makes sense in the fiction.

Whom are you leaning towards voting InterstellarHobo?
 
okay, setup spec. The idea of a completely uncoordinated scum team is based off of wild speculation and Evenstar reading in way too much to day 1 posts that I don't think have some sort of deeper meaning like she seems to. The most egregious example of that is nictis's "claim." If cult + SK is too bastard to be unannounced, that seems almost more bastard. I think a far, far more reasonable and simple explanation is that there are two scum teams (or one scum team and a redirect, but I think that's less likely). As Even said herself, Occam's Razor...

Let's look at these kills.




These are all flavored consistently. They're all brute strength killings. You might be able to argue that kills 3 & 4 are different from 1 & 2 on account of less smashing and more folding/twisting, but I think it's close enough that it's pretty consistent. Let's look at Nictis and LttL's flavor.

For LttL, we've got one 'half-beast savage' that explodes out of the 'suit of skin.' In combat, it's described as using its claws and fangs. It 'rips through the ranks.' We've got no mention of claw or bite marks, no lacerations whatsoever. LttL does not match the kill flavor. In Addition: Even if you believe that NK 1 & 2 were done by a different person than 3 & 4, LttL was lynched Day 2. There's no way they killed that night, they were dead. So, in conclusion, LttL did not kill this game.

Nictis is flavored as being a member of the Castle Guard. He's an undercover agent of the Bloodletter Brotherhood. This is more debatable, but I see nothing here that indicates he'd be killing this brutally. Reminder:

The 'Bloodletter Brotherhood' are known to us as assassins. He's indistinguishable (beyond the tattoo) from the rest of the Guard. I wager that he's like a passive Godfather that only applies to himself, i.e. if a cop checked him he'd show up Town. If the captain of the guard (naminani iirc) was a cop, it'd make sense that a fellow guardsman would pass their check. LttL was similarly hidden - he literally wore a suit of skin as a disguise. The kills we've seen aren't assassinations, they aren't 'half-beast' attacks, they aren't done with a blade. They're, in a word, barbaric. As in, the barbarians of Reim. I've said myself they might be a red herring, but at this point I think it lines up too well and i need to commit. On top of that, it was nictis who died, so unless he both targeted Cyri and was retargeted to himself (which we don't even know Cyri could do, and only if he's actually being truthful about his role), there's no way he made that kill. All in all, I don't believe nictis killed this game. I believe all four kills were done by a yet unflipped faction of barbarians.

I think, given how it seems like Nictis had info about Evenstar's QT, that his goal was to infiltrate their QT or kill her (or both, maybe with infiltrating resulting in a kill). He was clearly trying to get in her good graces. From that perspective, he swung the lynch onto LttL to build up more town credit. That's a rather risky play, no matter what the reason, and it's why I believe that there are two teams. The roleblocker is pretty likely to be scum, something i think we can pretty much all agree on at this point, especially since they haven't claimed. They were also repeatedly blocking Evenstar, which threw a big wrench into Nictis's plan. Now, it's possible that a kill could've been redirected into nictis, but at this point I think it's more likely that the other scum team (with the RBer) either bought into Nictis's lie and killed him thinking he was actually the VIP, or somehow saw through his ruse, although honestly I feel like the former is more likely. Note how the killer(s) seemed to be waiting until they killed the doc until they targeted nictis. They waited to kill him until after Absum died, and didn't immediately go for him when he 'revealed' himself.

I think we've got one traditional maf team in the form of the barbarians and one nonstandard scum team in the for of the Bloodletter Brotherhood. A lot of things line up for that. There's a possibility that the killer is an SK that can also RB, but I think that's less likely. I'm choosing to believe DG's claim over Pyrros's because of my previous reasoning, as well as because the way in which Pyrros defended themselves read as sus to me, with trying to keep the 'we're all town and there's a redirector' option on the table. Feels like they're trying to stay on everyone's good side. Also, looking back over their posting, I don't have a scum read on DG beyond a tone one. I'm choosing to believe the potential PR with a decently believable claim over the person claiming VT. This post is probably my final amount of big effort I'm going to put in for today because I still need to do more work and honestly trying to play this game is just stressing me out at this point. I don't have the energy to be doing much more backreading. I don't have much (if any) confidence left in me either about my ability to read people.
I agree with this analysis, though Evenstar's theory is still entirely possible.

Some things of note- if DimensionGuy is telling the truth, then 5 scum is very likely by sheer number of still active roles, and 1K is almost certainly roleblocker.
If DG is telling the truth, you must be the roleblocker.
Or, from your perspective, I must be the roleblocker.
(To run through the logic again: DG followed Cyric N1, who didn't visit the roleblocked player. DG followed Comi (N3?) , who didn't visit the roleblocked player. DG followed Pyrros N4, who didn't visit the roleblocked player. If DG is telling the truth, they aren't the roleblocker. I know I'm not. This leaves just you. Assuming you are town, then DG must be lying.)
 
I'm actually inclined towards No-Lynch. I don't know if it's a good idea though.

The thought being, if DG is telling the truth we're in MYLO. Bad lynch is very bad, no lynch is only kind of bad. We can request DG follow Evenstar? (I don't think there are other visiting town sadly) to verify that DG is telling the truth. If DG is telling the truth, there's only really one plausible scum team. If DG is not telling the truth, then there are significantly fewer plausible scum teams.
 
I'm actually inclined towards No-Lynch. I don't know if it's a good idea though.

No-Lynch isn't a horrid idea, however, the only possible outcome at this time is Meso or Evenstar being eliminated in the night and then for the rest of the game we're on likely lylo, and thus on the back-foot.

Scum won't attack me for my bulletproof claim (Or may even still want to count me as potential scum), scum won't attack any players that reveal the situation we are in. Thus I'm not really for it because I don't see any benefit for stalling a turn.
 
No lynch is a bad idea, I think. Scum can easily take down Meso or target Even, and then we're still in the same spot in terms of info but down one town.
 
I was gonna say DG would do one more track
but there's a roleblocker.
So if DG is telling the truth, they get roleblocked.
If they aren't RB'r doesn't block and DG claims roleblock.
 
I was gonna say DG would do one more track
but there's a roleblocker.
So if DG is telling the truth, they get roleblocked.
If they aren't RB'r doesn't block and DG claims roleblock.

Without any closure on today that leaves a bunch of blowing smoke on the field. Scum can either hide behind a facade of calling bs on DG's claim while if DG is scum then it's simple to just say who they visited wasn't the RB'er or Is the RB'er and lay a false trail.

Frankly, in addition, I'd rather lose a Vanilla than a Tracker on possibilities. Either way we get the air cleared on who is lying and whose not by resolving.
 
Frankly, in addition, I'd rather lose a Vanilla than a Tracker on possibilities. Either way we get the air cleared on who is lying and whose not by resolving.

So you believe there is no chance this is MYLO, because in such a case making this mistake of losing a "Vanilla" over a "Tracker" results in town's loss?

Also if I post within the next 15 minutes, yell at me to finish reviewing the paper I'm procrastinating on reviewing. :V
 
So you believe there is no chance this is MYLO, because in such a case making this mistake of losing a "Vanilla" over a "Tracker" results in town's loss?

Incorrect. I think the chances are slim that this is Mylo. I've considered it and yeah, not the best argument, but in the case of it not being Mylo, this applies. Also it's me at least trying to be positive that we're not in that situation right now, although I almost hope we'd have been warned if it was.
 
Wait, is it anywhere near standard to warn about Mylo?
I admit, the end of night scenario sounded optimistic, but can we actually expect some sort of warning about MYLO?
 
Wait, is it anywhere near standard to warn about Mylo?
I admit, the end of night scenario sounded optimistic, but can we actually expect some sort of warning about MYLO?

It happens sometimes but is in no way regular. I don't know LDJ's preference on that subject... however the general thing is revealing being in mylo/lylo harm's scum, and generally happens more in games where scum are stronger as a balancing aspect... but there is no set or common ruling on the matter.

And... gah! I really should be reviewing that paper.
 
It happens sometimes but is in no way regular. I don't know LDJ's preference on that subject... however the general thing is revealing being in mylo/lylo harm's scum, and generally happens more in games where scum are stronger as a balancing aspect... but there is no set or common ruling on the matter.

And... gah! I really should be reviewing that paper.
You should be reviewing your paper! Shoo!
 
Right. Never mind, didn't account for deflections there. We don't know necessarily that Cyriccubed is wrong.

Assuming:
Killer and RB remain
DG is telling the truth
We aren't in MYLO (at most 4 scum)
Game is not extremely strange

Person A visited Nictis N1. Person A is not killer or RB, so must be town. (Probably Absum)
This also implies C3 town.
Person B is the killer. On N4, visited Nictis. This is the night PW visited Nictis.
Person C is RB. They have visited daily, and cannot be the following people: C3, CT, PW, DG

Which is internally consistent, though requires the somewhat unlikely occurence of someone accidentally shooting Nictis in the face.

I hope this isn't what I'm like while teaching.
Also, excuse me while I stop playing mafia for a bit to prepare for the teaching I have to do soon.
 
I think the simplest explanations are PyrrosWarrior is scum or DG is lying. Of the two, I think I buy DGs claim.

[X] Lynch PyrrosWarrior

@DimensionalGuy have you put any thought into who you'll be trackign tonight?
 
@DimensionalGuy have you put any thought into who you'll be trackign tonight?

Don't answer that. If you want him to catch someone out in crucial moments you can't have him telegraph. If there by chance is 3 scum left in game then we cannot make it easier for the last two to plan movements this night.
 
You should be reviewing your paper! Shoo!

Not even my paper, its my mother's. If it was mine I'd willing procrastinate more. :V


Lines of Logic:
Assuming the set-up has 5 scum, and 3 currently aligned scum alive.
- If we lynch DG and they are town, game is over and scum have majority after night phase.
- If we lynch Pyrros and they are town, game is over and scum have majority after night phase.
- If we lynch DG and they are scum, game continues with 2 scum remaining and 5 town remaining, dropping to 2 v 4 during the following day phase. Amble information to be gained from the last lynch.
- If we lynch Pyrros and they are scum, game continues with 2 scum remaining and 5 town remaining, dropping to 2 v 4 during the following day phase. Amble information to be gained from the last lynch.

Assuming the set-up has 4 scum, and 2 currently aligned scum alive.
- If we lynch DG and they are town, Pyrros must be scum, and scum make it to 2v4 going into the next phase Pyrros is lynched and game simplifies to 1v3 the following day.
- If we lynch Pyrros and they are town, DG must be scum, and scum make it to 2v4 going into the next phase, DG is lynched and game simplifies to 1v3 the following day.
- If we lynch DG and they are scum, game becomes 1v5 the next day phase and the game has one mislynch and a no lynch possible for town victory.
- If we lynch Pyrros and they are scum, game becomes 1v5 the next day phase and the game has one mislynch and a no lynch possible for town victory.

However, a DG death provides the following,
-If scum DG's following "information" becomes suspect. Night 1 Cyric's "use" of their ability is no longer a point in their favor, n2 I lose any evidence of myself not being the roleblocker, and the claim that Pyrros visited Nictis the night they died as a vanilla is thrown away.
-If town DG's following information becomes truth. Night 1 Cyric in some form either visited Nictis, or their claimed ability resulted in DG being deflected into someone visiting Nictis, I am confirmed to be not the Roleblocker, Pyrros is confirmed to be Scum.

Thus a confirmed DG as town results in more solid information, and a confirmed scum DG results in much less conflict down the line.

Also... frankly a big reason is looking at the vote the three voting for Pyrros have a high chance of being a 3 man scum team (that Meso just voted for Pyrros excluded) and from my perspective knowing I'm town I know I'm not trying to support a scum ally, thus that line of thought doesn't work.

So hopefully this doesn't come back to bite me but I believe it is fair to assume that the way I've played this day indicates that Pyrros and I are aligned if pyrros is indeed scum, if they are scum I'm legitmantly not but its a fair assumption to make.

So people need to try and indicate what makes more sense to them a Pyrros/CT scum team, or a scum team that includes DG with Cyric, IH, and 1k. In either a 2 or 3 remaining scum game.

So what makes more sense to the game, a Pyrros/CT scum team where neither of us can be the roleblocker (thus a third individual 1k/Hobo/DG must be the 3rd scum.
Or
A scum team that includes DG with either 1 or two of Cyric/Hobo/1k. Or me making a strange play against my ally I guess?
 
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