What, no. Forum mafia is Lyfe!!! (Don't listen to the bird he's crazy, go to college and do the things, they're important and the not so crazy ones of us understand. )
What, no. Forum mafia is Lyfe!!! (Don't listen to the bird he's crazy, go to college and do the things, they're important and the not so crazy ones of us understand. )
Nani I'm the least sure on, but... It doesn't feel like a scum jumping on a murder train? There's also the dreaded reasons. why did everyone else get d1 knowledge so unfair rip meee
After a quick run-through of their posts I don't see anything that could really be seen as one, especially in regards to these "reasons" they apparently have. @Nanimani if you have reasons then you don't have any reason to withhold them, especially when you make it out as unimportant, like you did in your post.
Elaborating a bit on this, Nani doesn't really pick up on anything in regards to discussion related to me besides one post (which has gone seemingly ignored at this point), and given that there's a stated secondary, ulterior motive behind the vote, I seriously doubt said post has nothing to do with it.
...and if it's apparently unimportant (as implied in Nani's vote post), then why even mention it? Because at that point, there is no substantial voting methodology to go on, and a vote for the initial reason stated (being against the contradictions) would happen well beforehand (specifically, when Nani asked their question to me, or around that time frame when most of the discussion had gone through).
Okay, so I didn't really do that reset thing I was talking about, but I've been considering some of my conclusions and I'm pretty sure that my big realization was just wrong. I can still see why I had thought it, but I am looking at some other info I have and it doesn't quite fit.
So, TurtleDucks. Near constant hinting at being a Survivor, turned around to claim Town and suggest that Absum is Town as well. Absum meanwhile does not seem to suspect the same role I did, but outright says that they might be NK-Proof. I'm going to want at least one of these two to clarify soon, because town-locking them from a misunderstanding and a guess at the unknown bits of setup is probably a bad idea.
In the meantime, we've got a little under twenty-two hours left and some people need to start chiming in.
@Look to the Left at seven game posts and no actual game relevant posts definitely needs to start sharing some thoughts. @PyrrosWarrior at five game posts is mostly excused for providing commentary and corrections while being busy, but more would definitely be appreciated. @Happerry at five posts as well I'm looking forward to seeing their thoughts, regardless of if they think they're good at reading people or not. @DimensionalGuy at a whopping four posts and a mention that they don't say much unless they feel they have something to say. Well, do ya, punk? V)
People who don't really need to speak up but I'm curious on if they have anything to say: @QTesseract Do you have any thoughts as far as non-Rosen interactions go? @Nanimani Thoughts on Ban? @1KBestK I know your thoughts on Turtle, but what about Absum? I've got a good feeling from you so far, so I'm curious on what you think of the overall interaction between them.
And looking at the content of the actual votes it's not much of a wagon at all. It's also not going to Day end unless Turtleducks fucks up really bad because we don't tend to lynch first-time players Day 1 and as I said I'm mostly confused about what they're doing. I guess if you forced me to pick I'd go with uuh extremely misguided Town NK-proof or something? Because as Jester it's too obvious and as Maf it's detrimental (due to the possibility of attracting Vig kills or just getting lynched).
Oh, that. I'd honestly forgotten about that. It's both an "if forced to pick something" and frankly quite outdated as it's from before TD voted you and said he Townread me. I suppose it's not too far off of what I currently suspect their role to be if they are Town, but what I am suspecting in that regard is as I said not something I think likely.
Anyway @Cyricubed I'm a bit sad that you focused so heavily on both me and TD being scum together because this isn't really gonna help convince me this way. Though I guess you wouldn't care. That said I think you let your conclusion influence you too a bit toomuch while reading (or at least iirc you already said you thought we were both scum before that post).
This is were it shows the most imo. I at least don't understand why I wouldn't give the reason instead if I was scum with TD? And have TD parrot me afterwards. Like I specifically wanted to wait because I didn't want to supply TD with a reason if he was scum. It's also visible in these two
Here is where they backpedal on all the hinting they've been dropping, which makes me feel someone said: Stop leaking all over the place, but then proceed to go: Yeah I'm town and this here is town too I'm certain. On day 1...both already said they weren't in any form of Quicktopic so there is nothing this can be properly founded on so yeah, this reads bad.
Quick to respond and deflect by throwing shade onto me for my attempt to lure scum and then openly deflect off Turtle by pointing out: Hey this guy is a new player probably everything is alright and even admits why this whole thing looks bad.
imo. Because like. It's only "dropping the hinting" if you already assume I am with TD. Otherwise it's literally me doing what I said I was gonna do? That is, waiting so that I don't accidentally give TD a way out. Like I was actually pretty happy with that because he went in an entirely different direction (or no direction really as he still didn't really supply a reason) so I felt I did a good job catching him out.
As I said previously, I can see a case for me and TD being scum. I think you overreached though, and I would really like to see more arguments for TD being scum that do not rely so heavily on me being scum.
I don't see how the point is nulled and because that's not what I meant. It's in context of Nictis' question, i.e. when forced to pick between those options. I probably wouldn't mind putting TD down as lean scum in general either but if I did that I'd put down like 5? 6? players as lean scum because it'd just mean "did a bunch of suspicious things" and I'm guessing that's not what you mean here?
I'm not sure I understand what I did wrong? I can't really let what I see as a misinterpretation of how scum would act just stand there without counterweight? Better to inform Town of my thoughts, imo.
So, TurtleDucks. Near constant hinting at being a Survivor, turned around to claim Town and suggest that Absum is Town as well. Absum meanwhile does not seem to suspect the same role I did, but outright says that they might be NK-Proof. I'm going to want at least one of these two to clarify soon, because town-locking them from a misunderstanding and a guess at the unknown bits of setup is probably a bad idea.
My main thoughts of this idea are that, unless more info is revealed, what little we know of the lore setup doesn't seem ideal for a Survivor. The D1 and OP posts give an implication of this being Merovin townies vs. Invading Force scum (including at least one Godfather due to there being a traitor or traitors whom opened the gates) with a possibility, if Lost felt it would be mechanically balanced, for an SK.
Survivors, as we know them in Mafia narrative, are more generally some type of third party simply caught up in the chaos between the main two factions of Mafia and Town. The two presumed factions here, however, are too encompassing for any potential "Survivor" lore-wise to not simply be Town. Therefore, I don't believe there to be any Survivors unless future information proves me wrong, or at least casts doubt on that belief.
Anyway @Cyricubed I'm a bit sad that you focused so heavily on both me and TD being scum together because this isn't really gonna help convince me this way. Though I guess you wouldn't care. That said I think you let your conclusion influence you too a bit toomuch while reading (or at least iirc you already said you thought we were both scum before that post
I'm not really trying to convince you I'm trying to convince others. On that note I had a suspicion of the conclusion. I read for affrimation to see if I was on a wild goose chase or somewhere close to the ballpark. I still feel I hit close to the ballpark.
This is were it shows the most imo. I at least don't understand why I wouldn't give the reason instead if I was scum with TD? And have TD parrot me afterwards. Like I specifically wanted to wait because I didn't want to supply TD with a reason if he was scum. It's also visible in these two
Because either Town nor Scum should be openly leaving a path for someone to escape an argument. If you were to just give a reason for TD to attach too that would look even worse, especially if you are scum together you could just easily give a plausible reason to TD in scumchat rather than openly assist each other like that.
imo. Because like. It's only "dropping the hinting" if you already assume I am with TD. Otherwise it's literally me doing what I said I was gonna do? That is, waiting so that I don't accidentally give TD a way out. Like I was actually pretty happy with that because he went in an entirely different direction (or no direction really as he still didn't really supply a reason) so I felt I did a good job catching him out.
As I said previously, I can see a case for me and TD being scum. I think you overreached though, and I would really like to see more arguments for TD being scum that do not rely so heavily on me being scum.
Except you completely missed the point there. TD dropping a survivor/3rd party hinting was entirely his own. It has nothing to do with you other than you mentioning survivors before or after this point, which is entirely minor in the long run if not irrelevant. There is plenty of case on TD being scum alone, the problem is the interactions you've had with him paint you in a suspicious light with him.
I don't see how the point is nulled and because that's not what I meant. It's in context of Nictis' question, i.e. when forced to pick between those options. I probably wouldn't mind putting TD down as lean scum in general either but if I did that I'd put down like 5? 6? players as lean scum because it'd just mean "did a bunch of suspicious things" and I'm guessing that's not what you mean here?
The point was nulled for you saying I jumped on him and failed to realize he could have jumped on the same reason you gave...however not only did he almost immediately give his reasoning's for voting, but did so before you really questioned my vote at all...in fact you ignored it completely until it became noticeable, which is generally NAI but in this case when you gain interest after my shift onto TD it feels off and slightly sus.
I'm not sure I understand what I did wrong? I can't really let what I see as a misinterpretation of how scum would act just stand there without counterweight? Better to inform Town of my thoughts, imo.
Misdirection works for both Scum and Town. Sometimes getting scum to act how you want is gloriously to your advantage: Example- Last game I tried to play up myself as an important role near the end in hopes scum would target me and waste their time killing what I believed to be essentially a VT-Mason. If they had, the game might have gone much differently as Katsu would have still been alive.
If a misinterpretation isn't going to lead to an immediate negative impact you should leave it there, especially this early. That kind of misinterpretation can be deadly lategame but early game it can be good in trying to herd scum movement. at least Imo so this could come down to a simple clash of opinion on this singular point but it was never anything damning It was qfc that I had comments for. That being said, do you have anything to say on the appearent deflections I pointed out?
My main thoughts of this idea are that, unless more info is revealed, what little we know of the lore setup doesn't seem ideal for a Survivor. The D1 and OP posts give an implication of this being Merovin townies vs. Invading Force scum (including at least one Godfather due to there being a traitor or traitors whom opened the gates) with a possibility, if Lost felt it would be mechanically balanced, for an SK.
Survivors, as we know them in Mafia narrative, are more generally some type of third party simply caught up in the chaos between the main two factions of Mafia and Town. The two presumed factions here, however, are too encompassing for any potential "Survivor" lore-wise to not simply be Town. Therefore, I don't believe there to be any Survivors unless future information proves me wrong, or at least casts doubt on that belief.
Generally speaking you don't want to try to use lore to disprove roles. Survivors especially are hard to disprove, right now we're looking at the Town of loyal members of the Kingdom and the scum of people who want to take out the leadership. Most people of Merovin who got involved are probably loyal and true citizens yatta yatta Town. That doesn't mean that everyone in the city is out for blood or care enough to stop it. There could be, for example, a Herbalist who came into the city to buy new tools and only wants to go back to living in the woods. Or there could be a Serial Killer in fluff only who really doesn't care who controls the country, they just want to go kill people and not be killed.
If you don't have explicit word that whatever the scum is wants to kill literally everyone, you can't really say that there isn't a Survivor by the game fluff. Survivors are incredibly easy to fit in fluff wise.
Also, the Day 1 Start doesn't exactly make it sound impossible.
Some make their way forward to the front of the crowd, seeking to restore order, or exploit the herd mentality of the crowd, or perhaps simply escape the throng before they got stabbed somewhere important. Regardless of motivation, seventeen people find themselves the target of the majority of attention, faced with demands for a course of action and someone to blame.
Wolfish post. Going for informational lynches is a bad look as they have a primary assumption in mind (i.e Scum!Rosen = Town!Nictis/Evenstar; Scum!Absum = Suspicious Turtle/Ban) where it ends up being the pretense for a vote, rather than suspicion itself.
is in fact accurate and informational lynches are bad for town?
(keeping in mind context- obviously informational lynches aren't good if there's an actually decent suspect)
If so, can you explain why informational lynches are bad for town?
is in fact accurate and informational lynches are bad for town?
(keeping in mind context- obviously informational lynches aren't good if there's an actually decent suspect)
If so, can you explain why informational lynches are bad for town?
It is correct in the sense of how Rosen put it; that being that you probably shouldn't, barring the establishment of absolute binary conditions to ensure information accuracy, lynch purely for the sense of gaining information without letting the establishment of suspicion influence who you vote for. Lynches can and generally are informative, however, as it gives Town a lot to look back on generally, unless it is an inactivity lynch because someone was pushing the "they're lurking" card.
@1KBestK I know your thoughts on Turtle, but what about Absum? I've got a good feeling from you so far, so I'm curious on what you think of the overall interaction between them.
is in fact accurate and informational lynches are bad for town?
(keeping in mind context- obviously informational lynches aren't good if there's an actually decent suspect)
If so, can you explain why informational lynches are bad for town?
So basically the problem with info or utility lynches as it's been explained to me is that it creates a very easy way for scum to lynch people without actually having to provide reads or player analysis. It's a way to look like you're participating and scumhunting while not actually giving anything for other players to go off of. It also means scum doesn't actually have to build a case on account of a person's actual play. While the logic behind a info lynch is understandable (in that it can provide genuinely useful info to town), allowing info lynches to be an accepted strategy opens town up to be hit with easy, noncommittal 'mislynches' set up by scum.
I mentioned a lot of reasons to be suspicious. You respond by attacking the admittedly weakest one as if it were the sole motivation.
I started out leaning into this read because it was the only one I really had, but I was not especially enthusiastic about it. But your replies have just left me more and more certain we aren't on the same side.
I'm still not anywhere close to 100% but I am lot moreso than when I first made the accusation.
Didn't see this my firs time through but when you have essentially two things that you're pointing out how the hell am I supposed to magically figure out that youre talking about something pertinent that you didn't mention in the post.
Didn't see this my firs time through but when you have essentially two things that you're pointing out how the hell am I supposed to magically figure out that youre talking about something pertinent that you didn't mention in the post.
And no, the whole "you're contradicting the utility of how reads are formed with that question" doesn't count because I've already explained at least twice already that they were referring to two different reads. I REALLY don't feel like explaining the same thing a third time so don't even ask
Your point is nulled by the person you seem to be defending now and if you have a lean scumread why are you doing nothing with it on day 1?
Okay I'm going to do a dso on Absum/TD.
PREPARE THYSELF KNAVES! HYAHHHHHH:
qfc
qfc but glad to see newbies are doing research before diving.
Originally Dismissed this.
Hmm...memephase so NAI, thus qfc
qfc
kek...qfc
States their guesses aren't entirely random, why? I can't really pull much from this but it comes as off and strange. The 1st part seems off but okay.
NAI I think...
Ehh...can't really garner anything from that although I feel I should have.
Again mentions what they think scum would do...but why? Theoretically I can see it being more that the vets should respond and the newbies don't have a reason to really...regardless of alignment. So why keep mentioning that?
Yeah no that is indeed just bad reasons...well I know why I couldn't get anything earlier from that statement about it not being entirely random...
Not sure what to make of this so qfc
I...is this a scumslip? I don't remember any case of Absum being scum before so this just seems so off to me.
reinforces above idea
. . . More on this later
This is sus on base value.
nai/qfc
Mhm...that last statement makes me sus for a number of reasons
<.<
qfc...but funny.
Hmm...if this is true by any means then the townread on absum is generally unfounded imo.
Water Mill Gorge...qfc
qfc
weird response but qfc
Not gonna lie hiding in audacity is a thing...a thing I've done a few times in the past somehow successfully. I don't recommend it. Regardless this statement is wine for the most part, and I'm sure I've seen this somewhere else although that member was town.
qfc/nai
Okay gonna just address the Ele- . . . Turtleduck in the room.
This more or less reads like a very transparent 3rd party neutral claim at best. One that can win with either scum or town. I frankly don't trust that, especially since everything up to this point was pointing at this kind of claim and later they backpedal on it saying their town despite what they've greatly hinted at earlier. But...(Cuts to later-)
Yes.
Hmm. . . I can't say this isn't a good post because it is imo. Not much real content but it does give a good vibe.
Now here is where it gets weird...this looks like outside deflection off Turtleducks. If it was alone I would have passed it up honestly.
More of saying what scum would likely do
Except if people are actually being random on it, it shouldn't be analyzable.
qfc
qfc
qfc
Hints at survivors, seems like possible set-up for TurtleDucks later and an excuse to immediately believe him.
forgot what this was in regards to and I'm work lazy atm so qfc.
qfc
Hmm...idk.
Further...pushing for: Don't lynch me you'll regret it, believe me I'm everyone's friend!
qfc (Non-Alignment Indicative)
Random lynch thrown at me from the blue. I believe it was Even who asked for reasonings
qfc
Blatantly said: I'm voting you because your voting this guy that I like for some unknown reason(essentially a omgus vote at best which is still sus)
Just some general advice: You should always give your reasonings for putting down a lynch vote, even if they are minor and insignificant.
Basically prepping to say I'll believe whatever TD throws out because yeah.
qfc(I see what happened)
An again: Wait for my teammate to give a constructed excuse that I can build constructed reads off of. Or at least how I'm reading this given everything else.
qfc(I forgot what this was relation too)
Did your ISO on who? Now I'm curious and I didn't see Nanimani chaosposting at all. . .
Hmm...
Nai / qfc
qfc
Here is where they backpedal on all the hinting they've been dropping, which makes me feel someone said: Stop leaking all over the place, but then proceed to go: Yeah I'm town and this here is town too I'm certain. On day 1...both already said they weren't in any form of Quicktopic so there is nothing this can be properly founded on so yeah, this reads bad.
Quick to respond and deflect by throwing shade onto me for my attempt to lure scum and then openly deflect off Turtle by pointing out: Hey this guy is a new player probably everything is alright and even admits why this whole thing looks bad.
I already addressed this above actually so no need to re-address especially since you seem to be fully willing to ignore what TurtleDucks has pushed out regarding their reasonings.
Okay so....WHAT? Why would you give scum advice!? Seriously?
End result:
My highest scum reads are TurtleDucks and Absum together. They're being way too Buddy-Buddy and with absum's deflections I really don't like this even more. I generally apply newbie protection but this is a bit far on the chain for me to just ignore.
I'll be honest, I couldn't actually find much in this that was alignment indicative except maybe third party with Turtleducks. I can see a couple posts pointing to that. Interestingly, I've been getting not the most sleep the past few days and put him down as a possible Amnesiac, but I admit now, reading with clear eyes, Survivor seems more likely.
Regarding me chaosposting... They had Objections to things I said and called it chaosposting. I'd call it wineposting, but that's close enough to chaosposting for me not to protest.
Now the last thing, giving advice to scum? Do you really think that a scum would go giving advice not in their quicktopic? They've got those things for a reason. This looks to me like arguing with something they feel is wrong. I know that. I do that.
Not really, no. I feel like the Rosen arguments are worth something, though less than Nictis is putting on it. Still my best vote, and if that don't say something, I don't know what does. Your arguments for Absum/TurtleDuck are just kind of... Feels like you're looking for some argument to tear apart and in the absence of someone being genuinely sus, are attacking a fluffy cloud.
@Nanimani if you have reasons then you don't have any reason to withhold them, especially when you make it out as unimportant, like you did in your post.
So, TurtleDucks. Near constant hinting at being a Survivor, turned around to claim Town and suggest that Absum is Town as well. Absum meanwhile does not seem to suspect the same role I did, but outright says that they might be NK-Proof. I'm going to want at least one of these two to clarify soon, because town-locking them from a misunderstanding and a guess at the unknown bits of setup is probably a bad idea.
Yellow, but I've got only one data point on him. It's not exactly set in stone.
Sorry. Back into it a little, but generating false aggression on people this late isn't my style anyways, even if it'd probably be useful to get some kind of firmer reads on people.
is in fact accurate and informational lynches are bad for town?
(keeping in mind context- obviously informational lynches aren't good if there's an actually decent suspect)
If so, can you explain why informational lynches are bad for town?
Well, having informational lynching as your only reason could bad for Town since you're not, you know... Actually scumhunting with the lynch. It's definitely been used as one reason when there're other reasons as well, though, and I think that use is fine.
Honestly, I'm mostly against the contradictions. That's the only thing that's sunk into my head.
Also Reasons, but the Reasons are actually just... only a reason to vote him in the absence of anything more substantial.
The point was nulled for you saying I jumped on him and failed to realize he could have jumped on the same reason you gave...however not only did he almost immediately give his reasoning's for voting, but did so before you really questioned my vote at all...in fact you ignored it completely until it became noticeable, which is generally NAI but in this case when you gain interest after my shift onto TD it feels off and slightly sus.
The reason I don't consider it nulled is because "I'm voting you because youre voting some other person" doesn't even count as a reason to me? Or at least such a bad one it might as well not exist. To me there must (or had to, I guess) be something else behind it (even if just "idk what to do memes" or something). This is also why I'm pretty confused at what TD is doing with refusing to explain why he townread me.
Doubt I'll have anything useful to say but sure I can have a go. From Ctrl-F "deflect":
1: Me saying I don't think the wagon is gonna result in anything and that TD is mostly confusing me in response to someone else asking my opinion on that wagon. I don't think I'd see this as a deflection usually and you also say it's only because there's other stuff as well, so I don't think I've got anything to add.
2: I was not deflecting onto you, I just couldn't let the no-reason vote on me slide at that point. Well, I could, but you looked incredibly hypocritical to me when you did this so I didn't want to. Like I do hope you understand that jumping on someone for providing bad reasoning looks rather sus when their reasoning is that you made a vote with no reasoning. Of course that didn't turn out to be TD's reasoning, but again that's why I wanted to wait until he provided his reasoning (even if I clearly failed to properly wait and not comment).
3: I was hardly going to lie about my read and tbh I don't even see this as a positive read? It effectively says "scum if they weren't new" which is hardly an endorsement. Like, all the previous weird shit never gave me a scum read, it gave me confusing. And when TD was to my eyes the only one to even bother you about your no-reason vote on me(even though yes that doesn't appear to have actually been his reason, which we're still kinda waiting on) I was hardly going to think they were scum because of that. If they had provided any proper reason I would likely have thought their vote on you a very good town move, so it's more of a testament to how bad their evasive behaviour looks that I there consider they might be pocketing scum at all.
Edits made this really rambly and I might have doubled up, but hopefully it helps explain things.
is in fact accurate and informational lynches are bad for town?
(keeping in mind context- obviously informational lynches aren't good if there's an actually decent suspect)
If so, can you explain why informational lynches are bad for town?
Information lynches aren't strictly bad for Town, they can be quite useful at times. The issue is when lynches are done for their informational value over actual likelihood of catching scum. It's easy to justify a lynch as being good for Town because it informed you of other people, while you can be lynching Town.
For example, if you saw me railing against Rosen and decided to support it only because it would inform a read on me, that would be bad. Lynching someone who you genuinely see as scummy, with the acknowledgement that how they flip can tell you stuff, only says that you aren't 100% sure on their flip. Which is, y'know, normal.
)
