A Flung Light (Worm/minor toaru cross)
- Location
- Earth
There's been some nice speculation and arguments 
For the easy part: Since Mental Out out ranges Khepri by far, if they start far from each other Mental Out wins. There just isn't much Khepri can do since in that case Nozomi can easily keep avoiding her while attacking her.
Now, if Khepri somehow got the drop on Nozomi it's more complicated, as Shadow Archon has already laid out nicely.
Nozomi will retain her emotions and Khepri being Khepri will push her to the breaking point, like she did with her victims in canon.
Now, what happens when espers get emotionally volatile? Poltergeists. Uncontrollable eruptions of their own ability.
In Toaru Mental Out's case we have two canon examples of that:
Not a pleasant time for Nozomi, but one with an ending.
Let's ignore the practical concerns of what a PRT/Protectorate response would be should they find out she's doing that. (Which they would if too many Nazis come down with that affliction)
What's the difference between rewriting the parts you don't like in someone and killing who they are?
Of course as seen in the very first chapter Nozomi isn't beyond being pushed to kill...
A Nozomi beyond the Godzilla threshold is an S-class threat that walks into a school, gives the entire school powers class-room by class-room together with rewriting them for personal loyalty to her. (They would no longer be directly controlled, but still loyal to her)
She would also be a monster.
It's something she refuses to be.
For now, perhaps ever.
We'll see how much disappointment she can take, or if she finds a solution.
For the easy part: Since Mental Out out ranges Khepri by far, if they start far from each other Mental Out wins. There just isn't much Khepri can do since in that case Nozomi can easily keep avoiding her while attacking her.
Now, if Khepri somehow got the drop on Nozomi it's more complicated, as Shadow Archon has already laid out nicely.
This fact is, in my opinion, why Khepri will lose.
Nozomi will retain her emotions and Khepri being Khepri will push her to the breaking point, like she did with her victims in canon.
Now, what happens when espers get emotionally volatile? Poltergeists. Uncontrollable eruptions of their own ability.
In Toaru Mental Out's case we have two canon examples of that:
- Freeze drying some vines that restrained her during her first year when she got caught out without her remotes. (Toaru Kagaku no Railgun Manga, chapter 135)
- an ice age when she got her hand perforated by synthesize grid (Mental Out Manga, chapter 15)
Not a pleasant time for Nozomi, but one with an ending.
Indeed this is something she could do.
Let's ignore the practical concerns of what a PRT/Protectorate response would be should they find out she's doing that. (Which they would if too many Nazis come down with that affliction)
What's the difference between rewriting the parts you don't like in someone and killing who they are?
Of course as seen in the very first chapter Nozomi isn't beyond being pushed to kill...
A Nozomi beyond the Godzilla threshold is an S-class threat that walks into a school, gives the entire school powers class-room by class-room together with rewriting them for personal loyalty to her. (They would no longer be directly controlled, but still loyal to her)
She would also be a monster.
It's something she refuses to be.
For now, perhaps ever.
We'll see how much disappointment she can take, or if she finds a solution.
Shadow Archon
Protoss Preserver
- Location
- Louisiana
Mental and memory editing isn't just a power that can only be used negatively. There's positive things she can do with it, specifically when it comes to helping Master victims.
Being able to just edit people and their memories means she can fix the Heartbroken. Wildbow already stated that if you just kill Heartbreaker, all of the people that were forced to love him will still love him. So, the only way you can fix that is with mental editing if not a full on memory wipe. I'm not sure if she could fully just undo what manipulation he did, or overwrite a different compulsion on top of his to cancel it out, but either way, she's got the powers to help permanently affected Master victims.
Sure, it's not a perfect fix, but it is way closer to freeing them from his control than anything else.
Then there's the whole can of worms that is fixing Simurgh Bombs. First off is if she can actually do it. If not, nothing really changes. If she can... well if she can actively prove that... Well, that's huge. Like, she can single handily undo entire quarantine zones huge. She couldn't do it very fast, but she could potentially do a city or two in a month. Since the Simurgh only attacks twice or so a year, she can potentially fix cities faster than they're quarantined. Which would make her a VIP to the PRT that needs to be protected at all times. The PR gain they'd get from her helping quarantined cities is just far too high for them to treat her as an enemy.
Which would mean she'd also be the Simurgh's number one target...
Of course, the main issue there is proving she can do it to the nth degree for those too paranoid to just take it at face value.
Unfortunately, Case 53s seem to be beyond her ability to help since their minds are too alien. Otherwise, she could undo what the Slug did to them and help them get their memories back (assuming the memories are recoverable and not outright permanently destroyed), but that would probably lead to a quick Contessa interrupt. Now, since Esper abilities do grow with use, perhaps she could learn how to do it eventually, but that's a very big maybe and far down the road.
Being able to just edit people and their memories means she can fix the Heartbroken. Wildbow already stated that if you just kill Heartbreaker, all of the people that were forced to love him will still love him. So, the only way you can fix that is with mental editing if not a full on memory wipe. I'm not sure if she could fully just undo what manipulation he did, or overwrite a different compulsion on top of his to cancel it out, but either way, she's got the powers to help permanently affected Master victims.
Sure, it's not a perfect fix, but it is way closer to freeing them from his control than anything else.
Then there's the whole can of worms that is fixing Simurgh Bombs. First off is if she can actually do it. If not, nothing really changes. If she can... well if she can actively prove that... Well, that's huge. Like, she can single handily undo entire quarantine zones huge. She couldn't do it very fast, but she could potentially do a city or two in a month. Since the Simurgh only attacks twice or so a year, she can potentially fix cities faster than they're quarantined. Which would make her a VIP to the PRT that needs to be protected at all times. The PR gain they'd get from her helping quarantined cities is just far too high for them to treat her as an enemy.
Which would mean she'd also be the Simurgh's number one target...
Of course, the main issue there is proving she can do it to the nth degree for those too paranoid to just take it at face value.
Unfortunately, Case 53s seem to be beyond her ability to help since their minds are too alien. Otherwise, she could undo what the Slug did to them and help them get their memories back (assuming the memories are recoverable and not outright permanently destroyed), but that would probably lead to a quick Contessa interrupt. Now, since Esper abilities do grow with use, perhaps she could learn how to do it eventually, but that's a very big maybe and far down the road.
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Spectrum
Tell me a secret~
- Location
- Behind you~
Speaking of range, was Purity out of range the entire time to get sucked in there? I'll never turn down a good fight scene, but I did wonder about that one.
Shadow Archon
Protoss Preserver
- Location
- Louisiana
Purity's bright light form is a breaker state. As such, she's immune to Mental Out when she uses her power.
- Location
- Earth
Thank you for the compliment
Yes, as Shadow Archon already said, Purity is literally light in her breaker state.
It was mentioned the chapter before the last one.
I restated the inability to control her, though not the reason in this chapter as well.
Might be worth it to make it more clear though.
I'll think about it.
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Aminadab_Brulle
Decimus Computator
? No? QA doesn't care about your mind, she just takes over your body. Otherwise, this whole deal with trauma from being under Khepri's control wouldn't exist. And stuff like Ciara breaking out wouldn't happen.
Shadow Archon
Protoss Preserver
- Location
- Louisiana
She very much does. If she were limited to just the nervous system, there would be no memory or emotional feedback on Taylor and her human thralls, which clearly happens.
Ciara got out of Khephri's control from somehow sliding the hold on her to one of her ghosts which is a crazy power interaction involving Ciara's brain.
If QA just body jacked the nervous system independent from the brain, I don't think that would have worked.
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Aminadab_Brulle
Decimus Computator
Okay, maybe "doesn't care" was a bit too much (after all, without touching brains, Taylor wouldn't be able to make use of their powers), but it's still pretty clear that the body is the main component (among other other things, this explains why Case 53s like Weld were controllable), and her thralls "selves" were still active the whole time, just unable to resume control over their bodies.
Or it just works specifically like this, because "Wildbow wanted to maximize the misery" meme, idk.
Spectrum
Tell me a secret~
- Location
- Behind you~
(does some searching) Oh, that's an after-the-fact Wildbow clarification, I thought she was closer to Laserdream. Nevermind. But she is coherent enough to still be impacted by projectiles and take normal damage? (She's not known for being any more durable than standard.) How the hell does that work...
I was thinking less indiscriminate spamming of it and more disrupting key linchpins. Othala or Kaiser could be worth it, but most of the Empire capes are just another warm body.
Shadow Archon
Protoss Preserver
- Location
- Louisiana
The brain is the throne of the body. I don't think there's really a distinguishable difference between body with brain control and just mind control.
Besides, Weld has internal organs. They may be made of silver or copper, but they are organs that do a job in his body. Weld is basically the Worm version of Marvel's the Thing after all. He isn't solid metal. So, he probably has a metal brain and metal nerves for Taylor to control.
You could describe it as partial brain control if you want to be specific? Enough room for people to be prisoners in their own body, but still have Taylor control what's of pragmatic importance.
Which as I said fits most typical depictions of mind control generally. Room for the person under control to rage in their subconscious. Willpower being capable of fighting it off is generally optional.
I think of her power as mostly being hardlight. Where New Wave's beams act like lasers, Purity's tend to have a kinetic component.
Her breaker state then is also made up of hardlight.
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Aminadab_Brulle
Decimus Computator
Yes, mind control, is usually portrayed like this... but here we're drawing a comparison to Mental Out, hence I assumed that level of taking over as a "standard" for the sake of the debate.
Also, IIRC, Weld started out as a pile of metal scraps, so I don't think his organs have any functions beyond just looks. Or rather, I would say that, if not for Ward and the whole relationship drama he had with Sveta (which I honestly have forgotten about and only recalled while writing this post). So, I guess while he doesn't need to breathe per the first battle with Scion, he at least has enough of a nervous system to produce equivalents of hormones... somehow.
Shadow Archon
Protoss Preserver
- Location
- Louisiana
That's not how I intended to represent it. I brought up Mental Out being unlike normal depictions of mind control too in that comparison. Standard would just be what we normally see in fiction. Hypnosis, Brainwashing, psychic commands, etc.
Weld started out in a scrap yard as a head and a part of his torso, but that was surrounded by metal scrap. Given how he unwillingly absorbs metal on contact, that's mostly just him being stuck in a bunch of junk. It's not like Cauldron ripped him apart after they Slugged him, given vials heal those that drink them. So, dropping him in a scrapyard deliberately was kind of a jerk move. He didn't pull a Perfect Cell or Alex Mercer regenerating from a tiny piece or anything. The fact Weld can move his arms and legs at all is proof he has something operating like a nervous system anyways, and the fact he can see and hear with his eyes and ears mean he has organs that function.
Deceptions
- Location
- Earth
Deceptions
Friday, 22th April 2011 – Brockton Bay, DowntownThe cop in costume that went with the PRT troopers pulled ahead on his motorcycle.
Unlike the van of the troopers he was not hindered by traffic nearly as much.
He weaved through it with years of practice and parahuman skill.
Reading his thoughts I found they already suspected this was me. Which didn't explain the Ward in the van.
Director Piggot was already primed for the inevitable mess, as she called it, a new parahuman or two would cause. Since Keiko hadn't demonstrated a power when we visited Legend there was some doubt, though Legend was too polite to get confirmation from us that day.
One of the things she would get an answer for today, or so she'd believe. We had never said she gained powers that day and we never would say that.
The best lies were the ones others convinced themselves of.
More interesting was the trouble Armsmaster was in.
Skitter had talked.
The PRT knew that he had grabbed Lung from the street already defeated now, which they didn't much care about.
But him not telling them that Skitter had joined up with the Undersiders?
Director Piggot was furious about that.
He let the Wards run into her without any warning. So that was deserved.
She was furious enough to see him demoted for it, likely paired with a transfer. Though nothing was finalized yet.
Resentment boiled in him. The vast majority of it was reserved for Skitter, but a lesser amount was aimed at myself.
Prick. He made his bed, he can lie in it. No one forced him to claim credit that wasn't his.
Underneath the resentment I saw desperation as well though.
"Let's get ready to greet Armsmaster," I told BiriBiri, "he is closing in fast."
We didn't leave the alley. I positioned my temporary minions in front of us with their hands behind their heads.
The alley was too small for the vans, not that it gave Armsmaster any hesitation at all.
He simply took note of it, and went in anyway.
He came to a spot with elegant simplicity and swung himself of his bike with his halberd in hand.
He briefly glanced at my acrocycle and our costumes before he shoved the stream of ideas aside with long practice.
"Hello Armsmaster, I have presents for you," I forced a smile on my face for the hero in blue power armor. He reminded me of a color-swapped Iron Man.
"I am glad these ones arrive in the correct city," he frowned behind his well cared for beard.
Oh, they were pissed at me for the delivery of Bakuda to New York.
They took it as me deciding they couldn't do their job.
They got that much right. They did their job poorly.
I absolutely would have given them to New York if Trainwreck hadn't trashed the vans.
I decided to be more diplomatic instead.
"Your headquarters was literally on fire that day," I reminded him, but promised nothing.
"You haven't kept a single Nazi in prison the last decade," BiriBiri scoffed, "be glad you're getting any chance at all."
He gripped his halberd harder as his anger rose.
"We are all that stands between the gangs and a massacre," he bristled, "you are cheerfully playing with matches right next to a powder keg."
This was a man used to anger and used to dismissing that anger in others.
I could've accused him of setting off the powder keg himself when he arrested Lung without accounting for Bakuda.
It'd sting him, for truth did. But it might also cause him to double down and merely get angry himself.
"Your stalemate is killing us," I sighed instead. I made sure to keep any anger out of my voice. It left only my frustration and disappointment.
Where anger had bounced off him genuine frustration hit harder. Especially with his lie detector confirming the sincerity to him.
I heard the van's tires squealing as they came to a stop.
"But we are out of time," I told him to his confusion.
There were many things I could've chosen, but with the spies the Empire had in the PRT they'd learn what I told them.
This made the decision for me.
I pointed my remote at Krieg. "Tell him the names of your spies in the PRT."
"Arthur Sanders, technician. Zoe Baker, law clerk. Steven King, Strike team grunt. Crystal Johnson, PR. Brian Brown, nurse. Stephanie Daniels, Forensics," he recited dutifully.
I felt him flinch at every single name. Disbelief, quickly squashed. Followed by anger at the betrayal.
"I will take care of that," he promised through gritted teeth. Angry, but not at us. He paused, thinking. "Damn it, one of them is among the team in the van."
Just standing here, not talking might as well advertise we had something to hide. Like a room suddenly gone silent when a new person enters. They'd know something was going on.
We needed a-
"So, can your PR department decide that on their own," BiriBiri needled him, "or did you sign off on Armsmaster-brand girl's panties? I've always wanted to know."
Gallant missed a step on his approach.
As for Armsmaster. I've never seen a train of thought derail that hard before. As he sputtered he recalled merely skimming a form from PR instead of giving it the attention it deserved.
He never repeated that mistake.
"Those got recalled before they entered sale," he got out.
"Some still made it to fans," I couldn't help but feed the fire in amusement. The dockworkers got the contract to deliver those crates, some went missing instead of making their way to garbage disposal.
"I'm sure they'll feel well-protected," Gallant chuckled.
Another Tinker. He wore silver and gunmetal colored power armor styled after a medieval knight.
It was a lie.
A short read of his thoughts made that more than clear. He did not have the intruding ideas that Armsmaster kept pushing aside. He was no Tinker. His armor must've been made by one of his colleagues.
He saw emotions as color and could inflict them on others with the concussive blasts he could fire.
He was a Master.
More importantly he was a Thinker. They wanted his assessment of us.
He didn't have any trouble more than usual reading me or Keiko. Whatever mechanism his power used, it wasn't the same as mine.
It was also vastly inferior. He merely got emotions, no thoughts, no memories, no direct control either.
"Just get the prisoners loaded up, please," Armsmaster groaned.
We got them stuffed into the van in no time, this time tranquilized by Armsmaster and cuffed down.
Mr. King stood back next to the van, behaving just like any other trooper. But he kept his ears open.
Not that he was likely to get to do much, Armsmaster already had subtly contacted Dragon. He simply sent her the recording of me ordering Krieg around. The PRT was a paramilitary institution. Their employees didn't have all the usual rights to privacy.
He was optimistic Dragon would find something.
"I am glad to see them off the street," Gallant congratulated us, "that's a good thing for the city."
"Best of luck holding onto them," BiriBiri told him.
"Our work is easier in a team, so I'd like to invite you on a patrol with our Wards," Gallant offered. "Just an opportunity to get to know each other better." He turned towards BiriBiri. "Kid Win would love to talk with a fellow Tinker."
"I am not a Tinker," BiriBiri smiled. Then she let a few sparks fly between her fingers.
They stared at her, then turned towards me.
"I am multi-talented, it seems," I shrugged.
Armsmaster's thoughts were already racing with horror stories about cluster triggers. About capes suddenly becoming massively hostile to each other or partially bleeding their personality to each other.
I wasn't a cluster. No one triggered at the same time as I did. I'd know if they had.
It wasn't like I could tell them that, especially with Keiko pretending without a word to have gained her powers the same night.
Just great.
"We could do a patrol through the docks, I think," I turned towards Keiko in question.
"Sounds fine to me," she agreed.
"Sorry, Wards don't do patrols in the docks," Gallant grimaced.
"Why not?" I asked knowing exactly why.
"Wards are restricted to the Boardwalk and downtown," Armsmaster stated.
We let the silence stand for a moment, just in case he wanted to add anything.
"That isn't an explanation," BiriBiri pressed.
Armsmaster sighed. "The Wards program is expected to keep Wards safe, to an extent. There is some leeway, especially for older Wards which the Brockton Bay department does make use of. But we still try to keep them to the safer areas while we free up Protectorate capes to patrol the less safe areas instead."
"Huh. The docks unsafe? It's safe enough for children to live there," I stated facetiously.
That earned me a glare. "You know exactly what I meant," Armsmaster grumbled.
I hummed, unimpressed.
It was obvious to anyone who took the effort to look instead of accepting their PR statements as gospel where most of their effort went.
It wasn't the docks.
"I'll shake a Protectorate cape loose, so you can have your patrol in the docks," he gave in.
Huh. They wanted more information on me rather desperately.
"Is Sunday afternoon fine?" I asked. I had plans for Saturday.
A quick round of acknowledgments settled the date. I was simply to call their number to arrange the meet up.
"One last thing," Armsmaster stated. "Unless you want the press to give you a name, we need one for our announcement. You made too much of a splash today for it to be otherwise."
"I'll go with BiriBiri," she announced.
"Do you have any idea how hard heroic names for mind controllers are?" I sighed.
"Just go with Sparkles," BiriBiri joked half-seriously.
"Definitely not," I refused, "Mental Out. It'll have to do."
"Bold, to put your Master powers front and center," Armsmaster commented.
Gallant did his best to hide his awkwardness. It was just impossible with someone reading ones mind.
"People should be judged for what they do, not what they are," I imparted Mr. Kimura's wisdom.
We parted on that rather amiably.
We were gonna get an earful on the Sunday patrol.
I knew when and where the next ingredient transport for their drugs went from Medhall to their drug labs.
They wouldn't be happy about me throwing that connection into the open without warning them.
A/N:
If anyone has suggestions for a different cape name, I'll hear them.
Mental out is fine since it has Thinker/Master implications and she isn't really trying to hide this part of her powers.
And well it's a nice homage even if no else will understand it in-universe.
And well it's a nice homage even if no else will understand it in-universe.
Shadow Archon
Protoss Preserver
- Location
- Louisiana
The only other names I could think of would be a reference to Academy City. Academia or something. But it probably is way too close to Teacher and thus a no go.
Piggot may be a bit of a bigot but she how this whole thing works. Also they're hiding that the MC can give powers pretty well.
Yeah that's an understandable reaction, he made his choices he can now deal their consequences.
Brockton Bay PRT can't do their job and those are the facts.
Mental Out is really useful for social stuff given how much information it gives. She knows just what to say and how to say it.
That's a really big deal, those are only the neo-nazi spies but it's still a big help.
Emotional Damage.
At least he learned his lesson.
Downside of hiding her ability to grant powers. I personally think they should've lied and said the friend was the tinker.
Yeah PRT doesn't really help out the areas that don't make a lot of money.
It's a bold choice but I think it's the right one. Maybe she make herself as an example as a heroic Master.
- Location
- Florida
Honestly putting aside Mental Out being a reference to the source, literally outing herself as a mind controlling master is punny.
Would also add that I'm surprised they didn't repeat the point she made to legend about making the wards go unassisted at the undersider's robbing the bank and that she agreed to the blatant spying session and attempt at reeling them in (joint patrol).
- Location
- Earth
Yeah, she's not interested in getting compared to Teacher.
Yet it's something they can never admit to.
Her Master-aspect might be more obvious, but her subtle social-thinker aspect is more scary tbh.
Yeah, all the problems with the PRT/Protectorate Nozomi has, she'd like them to be more effective actually.
Getting the spies cleared out is a good start in her book.
This "merchandise" is canon, Taylor owns some. Though the rest of the details I added.
Would've been noticed the first time they had Tinker talk outside of electrodynamics, or so her reasoning.
It also makes her less likely to get tagged as a Trump, since a changing loadout and effects is normal for Tinkers.
Her first - forced - outing via Bakuda she mastered her way through.
The second - chosen - outing she did the same.
Because it's just that useful.
It wasn't ever going to stay a secret after the first time alone, let alone the second.
So she's putting it front and center.
Anyone who thinks that's all and gets past it gets to hit her "tinker"-tech contingencies.
She does have a few reasons for that.
For starters she did get the concession for the patrol to be in the docks.
An area that, in her opinion, needs more attention than it gets, as ArcanaVitae has also stated.
Furthermore while it is another soft-sell and spying, the PRT won't be the only ones to learn things.
She bets she'll learn more.
As for not bringing up the bankjob, it's for the same reason she did not throw his failure with Bakuda/Lung at his feet.
It'd only get him to dig his feet in.
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- Location
- a Far and Sunless Land
- Pronouns
- She/Her/Complicated
I'm curious why they think being a Tinker makes her part of a cluster trigger, given that iirc she's only demonstrated other powers while using remote controls as a focus. If I were the PRT, I'd be assuming that she's 'just' a Tinker and the remotes are mind control tinkertech. Have I missed something?
- Location
- Earth
It's rather obvious it's a normal remote with the brand still on it.
Their theories are totem cape like Dauntless (who imbues items with powers), or merely a psychological need for the remote.
It's also her showing up together with another cape, who also wasn't in any sort of costume. Just like her.
From their suspected timeline there wasn't truly time to build much, especially while avoiding Bakuda's attention.
But it's a good question.
I don't think I truly made that clear in the story.
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- Location
- a Far and Sunless Land
- Pronouns
- She/Her/Complicated
Makes sense! I mean, it *could* just be reused housing, and iirc (as per Weaver Dice) Tinkers generally fugue and build something during their trigger event, so it's probably still semi-plausible that she's just a tinker...
...except, yeah, Keiko showing up with her and already getting along with her probably puts the last nail in that coffin. If/when they don't show overlapping or related powers, some scientists will probably be scratching their heads, though.
I wonder if they'll assume that she's a static electricity Tinker (with how the bike can cling to walls and such), or that her mind control is electrically mediated, or something.