2024-AT-07: Staff and Evilchumlee

Arthur Frayn said:
Truly wild how often people fell for the "😳👉👈 all I did was say I love Superman and that making him Jewish would mean he's not normal" act.

Dude was a genuine throwback, not at all shocked to see he had a twenty+ record of saying the same dopey reactionary shit. He was like a living fossil throwback to the bad old days of 2003, and who clumsily and obviously tried to disguise their dumbass views as them simply phrasing "I love role playing as fascists because I secretly want to be one" poorly.

In the words of Lizzo, bye bitch
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To be fair, it evolved from pretty open bigotry to "I am totally fine with queer/racial minority characters, but they can't make a big deal out of it", which I sounds more like "fine, have representation, but don't shove it down my throat" from those trying to hide bigoted opposition to representation. There was also the refrain of "I don't support women's rights or queer rights, but everyone's rights", which att best shows no comprehension of the specific circumstances of diffrent marginalized groups require specific solutions, and at worst a way to sound supportive while brushing over the concerns of said groups.
 
ShyPerson said:
To be fair, it evolved from pretty open bigotry to "I am totally fine with queer/racial minority characters, but they can't make a big deal out of it", which I sounds more like "fine, have representation, but don't shove it down my throat" from those trying to hide bigoted opposition to representation. There was also the refrain of "I don't support women's rights or queer rights, but everyone's rights", which att best shows no comprehension of the specific circumstances of diffrent marginalized groups require specific solutions, and at worst a way to sound supportive while brushing over the concerns of said groups.
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Sometimes I wonder where do I stand where I constantly push for it through a corporate lens and arguing that corporations could just not bother or even take an antipathy approach to queers and racial minorities for example and praise companies that do while bashing ones that dont
 
Oh huh, I got quoted. Neat.

Completely unsurprised he got banned - just the last few tribunals with the "woe is me, I am trying so hard to do better" routine followed by loudly proclaiming that he stands by his (incredibly offensive like, god) opinions got old very quickly.

And then there was the quoted interaction, of course. Where he barged into a discussion about how people talk in fiction vs reality and whether using certain phrases in your pet peeves is unacceptable because of their connection to racist insults to complain about SV culture as a whole. In the fanfic pet peeves thread. That's not the behavior of someone who's actually trying to fit in. The contrition was simply a tactic that worked to let him get away with breaking the rules, and I'm glad it stopped working.
 
Before I read the whole thread, I just wanted to say that I think this was the right call. EC has done the whole, "I'm soooooo sorry, please give me a chance to change," bit every time he was hit for breaking the rules, only to immediately break the same rules in the same manner. The first few times could possibly have been genuine. But at this point, I think it's closer to him attempting to gaslight people into excusing his bad behavior. Given that, I can't see the reasoning for giving him yet another chance with only a 1 year ban. Permaban is the right call here.
 
For what it's worth, the read I always got on ECL's rulebreaking is that it was done somewhat frantically -- mistakes borne from posting while tilted, if you will. If you're not in a good headspace it is definitely possible to fuck things up, apologize for it, and then keep fucking up the same way regardless. That process looks a lot like how ECL flamed out, so while it's possible he was doing the inverse of that "LOL I TROLL U" meme pretending to freak out while playing puppetmaster behind the keyboard, I don't buy it.

If SV's culture was truly so alien that this flailing was the closest he could get to fitting in then the perma was definitely earned, but I don't really have any reason to doubt his sincerity despite multiple fuckups. Sometimes you just .. crash.
 
Having read through the recent tribunal posts, what strikes me is the juxtaposition of "I'll do better if you give me a chance" and "I don't understand what I did wrong".

Ignoring any question of malice as irrelevant, if you don't understand what the problem is, any promise to fix it is meaningless.

It is self-contradictory. But both are emotionally in the direction of submission. This is what you do when you don't think the person judging you is a reasonable person who cares about what the rules actually say, but instead that they only care that their authority is respected.

Not learning that's what authority figures wanted from me led to a lot of problems during my childhood. Mostly because it always felt like I would be insulting them by behaving this way and implying that's what I thought of them. Even when it is what I thought of them, I worried they'd pick up on the implied insult.

It still disgusts me how often it works. Maybe that's just sour grapes on my part due to being shit at this tactic.
 
General_Urist said:
What exactly is the difference between a suspended and banned (not "banned forever") user anyway?
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This is admittedly from some years ago now so I might be getting some of the details wrong lol, but basically a suspension was something that could temporary or indefinite, while a ban could be permanent. In practice it's a hard distinction to make for most people (and generally not helped by the fact that both Squishy and I are open to clemency on even 'permanent' bans lol).
 
Nerevar said:
Having read through the recent tribunal posts, what strikes me is the juxtaposition of "I'll do better if you give me a chance" and "I don't understand what I did wrong".

Ignoring any question of malice as irrelevant, if you don't understand what the problem is, any promise to fix it is meaningless.

It is self-contradictory. But both are emotionally in the direction of submission. This is what you do when you don't think the person judging you is a reasonable person who cares about what the rules actually say, but instead that they only care that their authority is respected.

Not learning that's what authority figures wanted from me led to a lot of problems during my childhood. Mostly because it always felt like I would be insulting them by behaving this way and implying that's what I thought of them. Even when it is what I thought of them, I worried they'd pick up on the implied insult.

It still disgusts me how often it works. Maybe that's just sour grapes on my part due to being shit at this tactic.
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I agree, all ECL had to do considered if x is hateful then dont post it or better yet, do the opposite of what would be considered hateful and nod wholeheartedly instead of digging himself into repeat situation where the mods are involved and finally had enough of his behavior that he has no choice but to go to an echo chamber.
 
Arthur Frayn said:
😳👉👈 all I did was say I love Superman
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Irredeemable, to the mines. :V

Jokes aside pretty open and shut tribunal, not really much to say tbh. The plot twist of evilchumlee actually being ladiesman threw me for a loop but in retrospec a lot of things suddenly make a lot of sense.

Also assorted bigotry notwithstanding, they had this behavioural tendency to just bulldoze through threads regardless of anything else going on in them, to the point it could probably be argued that even if the fairly extensive bigotry issues were't a thing, they might have actually warranted a ban purely off of a disruptive attitude that just could not be quelled or bargained with.
 
Fey'lya said:
For what it's worth, the read I always got on ECL's rulebreaking is that it was done somewhat frantically -- mistakes borne from posting while tilted, if you will. If you're not in a good headspace it is definitely possible to fuck things up, apologize for it, and then keep fucking up the same way regardless. That process looks a lot like how ECL flamed out, so while it's possible he was doing the inverse of that "LOL I TROLL U" meme pretending to freak out while playing puppetmaster behind the keyboard, I don't buy it.

If SV's culture was truly so alien that this flailing was the closest he could get to fitting in then the perma was definitely earned, but I don't really have any reason to doubt his sincerity despite multiple fuckups. Sometimes you just .. crash.
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I don't really buy that it was an accident every time. After the like dozenth time you should have some pattern recognition about your own fuck ups.

Also the whole "Also I was right."part he always eventually got to.
 
Yeah, it might have been believable that he was just out-of-whack with the forum the first time he did his schtick, but by the tenth, the twentieth, it was clear he was just lying. The guy was a bigot who didn't want to even give lip-service to not being bigoted, and who resented that SV didn't let him just spew hate all day without consequence. That he very badly lied about being contrite - usually in the same breath as 'but i'm right you cretins, get fucked' - only cemented this impression.

Honestly surprised anyone offered a 'temporary' ban, really.
 
I do feel that the stuff about the forum culture not having room for him struck a cord, but in that case I wonder what he was getting out of being on here. I think it is possibly better for both parties that he is banned for a time.
 
Ferd42 said:
I do feel that the stuff about the forum culture not having room for him struck a cord, but in that case I wonder what he was getting out of being on here. I think it is possibly better for both parties that he is banned for a time.
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It only works if he got the point, but Ladiesman had no motivation for trying to change his ways. So he had to go as he had been warned on multiple occasions on his behavior. Usually when you get infarcted you should take the advice that your behavior isn't tolerated and you can either stop it or face the inevitable tribunal
 
It was admittedly very weird, that last week, because I saw the direction the vote was going (but obviously couldn't say anything) but he was still out there posting his, uh, unique Warhammer 40k takes to the very end, to the very last hours.

He went down with that ship.
 
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