2024-AT-07: Staff and Evilchumlee

Pawn Lelouch

Pawn Lelouch

The King of Games
Councillor
Location
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Pronouns
He/Him
forums.sufficientvelocity.com

2024-AT-07: Staff and Evilchumlee Upheld

@Council, The Staff of Sufficient Velocity have been requested to review the behaviour and continued presence of @Evilchumlee upon Sufficient Velocity. While this review was underway, their account also received a total of 200 active infraction points, sparking a second automatic User Review...
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Here is the perma tribunal for Evilchumlee, formerly known as ladiesman.
 
I haven't actually read the full Tribunal yet, but something which I've been wondering about for a while came up: How permanent are permabans? I always thought I remembered that perma'd people can come back a year more later and ask if they can have another chance and that depending on why they were banned, what they're actually saying and how long it's been they do actually have a chance? Was that wrong? And similar for subforum bans, as well.

Also, since it got mentioned in the Tribunal and not edited out, I have to say that I found all the previous Tribunals in which Evilchumlee said they were learning and just needed more time rather awkward in light of them being a SB user that was on there for 20 years before getting permabanned. Like yeah different site and all but that doesn't really inspire confidence in one's ability to learn the rules.
 
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My ongoing petty bit causes certain problems with conveying what I want to say, so let's do it as a poem of Japanese origin

last of votes in thread
a letter I have excised
excellent insight
 
Absum said:
Was that wrong? And similar for subforum bans, as well.
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That is how it works in practice but it relies on staff being willing to give you one final chance when you had in essence already blown it. There are people who ask but don't actually get given that chance for example.

Absum said:
Also, since it got mentioned and not edited out, I have to say that I found all the previous Tribunals in which Evilchumlee said they were learning and just needed more time rather awkward in light of them being a SB user that was on there for 20 years before getting permabanned. Like yeah different site and all but that doesn't really inspire confidence in one's ability to learn the rules.
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Also yeah, even ignoring his SB record, which I did not really know about, his behavior was pretty consistent. He would get hit, go with the I'm sorry defense, and never change anything. Where he was so consistent in that pattern that I thought there was no realistic way he would change, especially not in a timespan that wouldn't mess with the users for far too long.
 
Also like the last two times he did the "I'm sorry" bit he also immediately turned around and said he'd never change as well, so.
 
Absum said:
I haven't actually read the full Tribunal yet, but something which I've been wondering about for a while came up: How permanent are permabans? I always thought I remembered that perma'd people can come back a year more later and ask if they can have another chance and that depending on why they were banned, what they're actually saying and how long it's been they do actually have a chance? Was that wrong? And similar for subforum bans, as well.

Also, since it got mentioned in the Tribunal and not edited out, I have to say that I found all the previous Tribunals in which Evilchumlee said they were learning and just needed more time rather awkward in light of them being a SB user that was on there for 20 years before getting permabanned. Like yeah different site and all but that doesn't really inspire confidence in one's ability to learn the rules.
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From what I've seen occur with other users, if you aren't completely vile and you're willing to wait a while post ban, you can talk to the admins about being let back on but a whole host of factors go into whether they agree or not. That said, I don't think there's a solid procedure for doing it since most permabans occur for a reason.
 
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Is there something in the air? This is the second perma of an SB/SV user who's been around 20-ish years in two weeks. I'm somewhat afraid for Xon and Ford.
 
Absum said:
Also, since it got mentioned in the Tribunal and not edited out, I have to say that I found all the previous Tribunals in which Evilchumlee said they were learning and just needed more time rather awkward in light of them being a SB user that was on there for 20 years before getting permabanned. Like yeah different site and all but that doesn't really inspire confidence in one's ability to learn the rules.
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I would have bet a nontrivial sum of money on Evilchumlee being less than 20 years of age, so that is. baffling to me.
(I haven't read the tribunal yet but uh that alone plus past tribunals tells me this was clearly the correct decision.)

Aranfan said:
Is it wrong to say "good riddance to bad rubbish"?
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When there was a single thread for responses to all tribunals there were rules against "Ding dong the witch is dead"-type posting. I suspect it still applies.
 
I mean...I'm not sorry to see such a hateful individual gone but I have to, with absolute disgust, at least acknowledge the hustle. ECL did this entire dog-and-pony show each time they were, rightfully, dragged in front of a tribunal and somehow managed to emerge, not with overturned infractions thankfully, but at least managing to muddy the waters and garner the odd measure of sympathy that was completely unearned.

Even now I see in their final post that they've attempted to present themselves as an average 'left-of-center' Joe who's stumbled upon an insular, borderline secretive, Far-Left Commune and was shown the door for being unable to grasp the obscure and esoteric leftist theory and jargon utilized by the population, despite their repeated attempts to try and fit in. The onus and blame is somehow shifted onto the site and its site culture for being this arcane and obtuse thing rather than their own very poor attempts at concealing their various hate-filled views at the very least including Islamophobia, homophobia and transphobia.
 
Squishy said:
A permaban doesn't automatically expire. You can ask for it to be removed, but it's ultimately an act of clemency. Usually we tell people that we'll consider it in a year or two, but there's no hard rule and certainly no guarantee that even if we consider it we'll agree.
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That doesn't sound that different to the 1 year suspension votes in this tribunal, besides the clemency being automatic.

Knowing now that it was Ladiesman, I'm pretty dubious that they would actually change in a year. Maybe just learn to mask themselves better.
 
I can't help but feel this is a bit unfortunate, although definitely the right call. I genuinely think he was trying and just not getting it. But that really wasn't enough. Like was said, this was about what was fair for everyone else here; and waiting for the likely next blowup wouldn't be.

Admittedly I don't think I've seen the worst from him, to get the bead on any genuine bigotry over just some confusion and other thoughts; though part of what I did see was a categorical statement that I among many others are evil for a thing one can't help, so, maybe I just have an unreasonable store of pity for someone asking for it?

Regardless, I hope he can learn elsewhere, and with any luck better than trying to learn here was going.
 
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Wow, evilchumlee got banned so hard it made K get serious retroactively.

Having caped for the man himself in the past, I'm in camp "he's trying", but would still have voted perma if I were on the Council for many of the same reasons the ones who did did so. Fundamentally, it doesn't matter if someone's hulking out and smashing through walls on purpose or on accident, they need to be moved before they knock your goddamn house down.

RIP ECL, sorry it didn't work out, please read up on house maintenance protocols before trying to move back in.
 
Okay, now that I have read the tribunal I hope that if ECL does in fact apply to be unbanned in a year, staff remembers his final post in the tribunal before considering leniency.
 
Unsurprised. They've been doing the contrition dance all over discussions but between immediately eating another infraction after their last tribunal, and honestly the number of times they've taken a combative stance in those prior tribunals...

Like, come on.

Honestly I think either proposed outcome - perma or one-year ban - was reasonable, but given how they just weren't getting it and multiple users pointed out a lack of change at all, then... yeah. Saw that one coming literally since the last tribunal.

GretelOstrich said:
okay, so you just were kinda fine with a guy you knew is an awful chud shitting up the forum for a year

cool cool cool, love your moderation strategy
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... Are you trying to dunk on a site director for not removing a hostile and combative personality directly? Weird strategy.
 
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