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But most of those attacks dont sound like they will so much damage. I would think that properly powerd up runic attacks would be super powerful.
Runic attacks are literally just semi-permanent spells; we'd still have to learn "super powerful" runic spells for them to be super powerful. And charging them up would take relying on someone w/ more power than us.

Meanwhile, acid to the face is acid to the face; a gas filled with sleeping is going to knock people out; the ability to heal yourself means that you're no longer going to die. Arguably, we could even create mana potions and allow ourselves to cast for longer. All of these are things we can do alone and sell for benefits.

All the possible choices have benefits but what matters is setting ourselves up for the long run - we have four more years at this college. Getting $, friends, and a potion that lets us stay awake is just better. We'll have more opportunities, more ability to pursue them, and be able to work harder.

Back home is a culture where everyone wants to kill us it seems.
lol what? No, we just want to get our magic back, and we're not rich, famous, or with good enough connections to anyone who matters. Back home no one gives a shit about us. Hell, even the lich doesn't want to kill us because if we die he'll likely lose our magic.

Literally no one wants to kill or attack us, so the best things to do are a) to get more friends so things stay that way and b) optimize for the long run.
 
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Runic attacks are literally just semi-permanent spells; we'd still have to learn "super powerful" runic spells for them to be super powerful. And charging them up would take relying on someone w/ more power than us.

Meanwhile, acid to the face is acid to the face; a gas filled with sleeping is going to knock people out; the ability to heal yourself means that you're no longer going to die. Arguably, we could even create mana potions and allow ourselves to cast for longer. All of these are things we can do alone and sell for benefits.

All the possible choices have benefits but what matters is setting ourselves up for the long run - we have four more years at this college. Getting $, friends, and a potion that lets us stay awake is just better. We'll have more opportunities, more ability to pursue them, and be able to work harder.


lol what? No, we just want to get our magic back, and we're not rich, famous, or with good enough connections to anyone who matters. Back home no one gives a shit about us. Hell, even the lich doesn't want to kill us because if we die he'll likely lose our magic.

Literally no one wants to kill or attack us, so the best things to do are a) to get more friends so things stay that way and b) optimize for the long run.

I thought that we could charge them up ourself just that it would take a long time, also I would think that a fireball spell that we have been powering up for like 1 week would outpower a acid potion,


...I think you might be confusing the 'Necromancer's Bargain' background with 'Scion of a Fallen Lich'. We took the former.

I thought that the empire was super cutthroat and that some random nobel might just kill us for the lolz. Also they will try to hunt us down after we break that spell, plus we might want to involve ourself in politics so that we can gain imortalety.
 
"A rune is fundamentally a spell, some say. After all, a rune is shaped like a spell, takes power like a spell, and is even drawn like a spell. Yet if you forge a spell in iron, it does not become a rune. Indeed, activating that spell destroys it, just as activating any other spell does. The public calls these single-use spells 'runes', but they could not be more incorrect. If you draw a rune on something, you must make it permanent. In addition, a rune is not like a spell in that a spell does not care what it is inscribed on, provided the inscription is accurate. Chalk on a blackboard will work, though the required accuracy is difficult. Your hand in the air will work, provided the spell is inscribed quickly enough, and the strokes are made in the correct casting order, and empowered and held as they are made. A finely-ground pencil nib on paper will work, though if you fold or bend the paper you may find your spell not working. You must still know, however, how to put your magic into the spell. A spell cares whether you empower the top of the sigil first, and changing the order changes the spell."

The instructor suddenly shouted, banging his hand on the blackboard for emphasis.

"Runes are not spells! Runes are not spells! Inscribe a rune for water into iron, and nothing will happen. Inscribe a rune for water on flesh, and yes, it will work, as flesh is mostly water. However, it will command the water in the flesh only, leading to disastrous consequences. Empower a rune, and it remains, and is only damaged by the passage of time and physical effects. The flow of Ether through a rune does not harm a rune. Moreover, a rune does not care how you put the magic in, meaning any village idiot who can channel the Primordial Ether can use a rune. What does this mean in practice for runecraft? Well, as we all remember Alessor's Third Theorem, it is provable..."


Runecraft, on the other hand, is really advantageous as long as you can get someone else to throw the magic in. Unlike a spell sigil (which activates instantly and generally has a quick, temporary effect) which does something once, you can realistically forge a rune, get a friend to charge it, and wear it for the next day (or week, depending on how powerful the runic effect is). You can't carry a buddy around to cast spells for you, but you can cast runes well in advance of when they're actually needed, meaning providing the power isn't such an issue. I mean, you still need someone to do it, but it's perfectly plausible to forge runes and have others charge them.

Alchemy quote.
Alchemists can mainly make things that transmute stuff into other stuff. Though this can be transmuting the sleepiness of a cat into the sleepiness of a human (in potion form) if you want someone to nap for a good long time, or n. The magic has to some from somewhere, but alchemists can use parts of magical creatures (or parts of humans, which are technically magical creatures, if you're not too picky) to provide the magic part of the equation. Alchemy's big advantage is that it can take magic from an outside source, and the magic also stores pretty good.
I thought that we could charge them up ourself just that it would take a long time, also I would think that a fireball spell that we have been powering up for like 1 week would outpower a acid potion,
that's not how charging up works, IIRC.

The way that I take the quotes above is that you make runes, have to charge them all at once like you would a spell, but then they stick around for a while until the charge runs out. Which means that you can't just build up magic because otherwise why would the QM say "you can get someone to charge it for you"? If it was a non-issue he'd mention it. The fact that there's a barrier on how charged a spell can be means that powering up a spell for longer doesn't increase the effect: it hits a point of power at which point it's useful, and doesn't become stronger when overcharged - except, possibly, in a temporary way that damages the rune, and thus requires us to spend magic doing it.

To plug alchemy again: It lets us take the essence of things from other things and thus lets us do a lot of kinky shit, stuff which isn't replicable by runes and spell sigils. So learning it is useful because it adds a whole different approach to take. The downside, of course, is that it requires more infrastructure than either Runes or Spell sigils and doesn't integrate well with the other approaches to spellcrafting. So we're basically trading variety and utility (and thus synergy in complementary actions) with synergy in the sense that every step in one of the main two forms of spellcasting is likely to smooth out steps and actions performed in the other main form of spellcasting. (w/ main forms being Runes & Sigils, because spirits are used differently for all that they're acquired using runes/sigils)

I fully intend to pursue runes and remedial spellcrafting next turn, it's just that I want a) to make us less vulnerable to CHA failures and thus able to establish a better rapport with teachers and... comrades? fellow students? and b) to give us the ability to heal ourselves, stay awake, etc. as well as income from supplying these possibilities to others.


Edit: The empire seems to be cutthroat only in regards to jockeying for power among the higher Lich families. If you're not one of those people they don't care, so long as you obey.
 
@occipitallobe We can go and do Spirits and Remedial Spellcraft and Runic Theory next turn, yes??

Mostly yes, Remedial Spellcraft runs all the time, but Spirits and Runic Theory won't turn up again until Term 3. Of course, you're not really able to do the advanced versions of those subjects until Year 2 unless you really kick the shit of Runic Theory, so it doesn't change much in the long term in theory.

That being said, we're specced for solo learning (Willpower + Int being the most important stats for personal study), so if you decide to specialize in Alchemy, having it in Term 1 instead of Term 3 means you'll have an additional two terms of solo study under your belt. Given you get 1 Class Training Roll per subject per week and potentially up to 9 Free Actions as Alchemy Training Rolls, a character maxing Alchemy would only learn 10% of their Alchemy in class.

Here is my argument for spellcraft we live in a culture where everyone wants to kill us, and the only way for us to get our full power back is to kill of that bastard we sold them too so we must get good at combat. Also I dont trus mercenarys to take care of our safety so we should get good at protecting ourself.

To be honest, your chances of taking on the Necromancer who took your power in a straight-up fight is somewhere between 0% and 0.01%. He's got his Magic Pool plus yours, and he has forty to fifty years of studying and training as a head start. He also has access to a school of magic (Necromancy) you have no teachers in. It's potentially possible to take him down, but you'll need to use guile of some sort to even stand a chance.

We will never be good in a straight fight with our current channeling it is simply to low all spell craft does is slightly reduce just how weak we are.

One of the loreposts mentions a Channeling 1 combat mage who killed thousands of people in the Archipelagean War. It's possible to be good at combat, it's just very, very suboptimal for your stat lineup. That being said, if you managed to get your power back, you'd be a pretty tremendous combat mage...

How will we learn rare spells if no one likes us? How will standard spells help if our opponent knows all the spells we know and can cast them for a longer period of time?

Regeneration potions, acid flasks, clouds of blinding, poison our enemy beforehand, etc. It's as likely to be useful as Runes would be.

Alchemy is generally more about personal buffs and nerfs (in gameplay terms) than it is about combat. You could maybe amp the shit out of your reflexes, speed, strength and become a combat monster temporarily with Alchemy. You can do things like clouds of blinding, but doing that Alchemically is incredibly doing, while doing it as a spell is pretty easy.

Runes, on the other hand, are generally used to defensively spec a character. Get a bunch of runes that activate Shields of various sorts on your person, pay someone to charge them, and you can walk around with similar combat defenses as a great combat mage. Of course, this is expensive, but forging a bunch of runic equipment can really stop people from killing you.

Do we even have a family?

Yes. You sold your magical power for the money to take care of them, and they now live a comfortable middle-class lifestyle funded by your sacrifice.

But most of those attacks dont sound like they will so much damage. I would think that properly powerd up runic attacks would be super powerful.


Runes generally aren't used for attacks. Attacks need to be altered on the fly (range, magnitude, etc), and runes can't be changed on the fly. Generally speaking they're a better bet for your standard defensive options, though that's not to say you couldn't use runic attacks, just that to do it effectively it'd mostly be original research.

Meanwhile, acid to the face is acid to the face; a gas filled with sleeping is going to knock people out; the ability to heal yourself means that you're no longer going to die. Arguably, we could even create mana potions and allow ourselves to cast for longer. All of these are things we can do alone and sell for benefits.

Magic and magic strength is one of the few things you can't transfer easily. Magic can transfer other conceptual stuff, but not magic itself. The Curse of Transferal is unique in the sense that it allows you to draw on someone else's Magic Pool, and the number of people who know how to cast and break it probably number less than a hundred in the entire world.

I thought that we could charge them up ourself just that it would take a long time, also I would think that a fireball spell that we have been powering up for like 1 week would outpower a acid potion

Hell yeah it would, but when you cast a spell (or engrave a rune) you also set up the parameters of the spell/rune. So if you know you're going to need a fireball that needs to be 2 metres in radius and fly exactly 18 metres, you're golden. This is why runes tend to be either really weirdly specific (does x to y, where y is some fixed thing in the world), or activate fields of a certain radius because those are more than likely to be useful.

That being said, you could create a rune that just create a field of pure fire for a radius of twenty metres or so, and just have it on you as a sort of 'fuck off and die' option.
Or a cone attack, or a ten-metre energy spear, or... as long as you can define the effect precisely beforehand, you can make it work.

Runic weapons are really finicky, though. Runes are always on (they're either set to 'charged' or set to 'off'), but this can be gamed. For instance, if you carve a reversed rune for water into an amulet of iron it won't do anything even though it'll hold a charge. Run some water over it, and bam, activated rune. (This is the standard method for using runes of water, as water is somewhat difficult to carve permanent symbols into).

You can't charge a rune over time (or a spell over time), though. If there's not enough magic to activate something, it just flows out. There needs to be a certain level of magic to stabilise it. Almost everything spell-related needs to get its entire charge dumped in very quickly, or it just won't work.

I thought that the empire was super cutthroat and that some random nobel might just kill us for the lolz. Also they will try to hunt us down after we break that spell, plus we might want to involve ourself in politics so that we can gain imortalety.

The Empire is really cutthroat, but mainly among the upper and middle classes. The upper classes loathe each other, each Undying Clan governs an entirely different city, and they usually think nothing of killing off another clan's Scions if they think they can get away with it. The middle classes serve the upper classes, though the upper classes are generally worried enough about revolts from that angle (which is how the Six-Fox Pact became a rebellion, and then a set of nations) that they intentionally cripple their ability to be powerful mages. No respectable lich or necromancer would bother killing a member of the middle class unless he thought they were genuinely indispensable to one of their enemies.

The massive underclass is seen as cattle. You might kill cattle if it became necessary, or if there were too many of them, or if one of them got in your way, but anyone who murders for sport is generally taken care of, because while the underclass are unimportant, they're also a source of potential rebellion
 
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Mostly yes, Remedial Spellcraft runs all the time, but Spirits and Runic Theory won't turn up again until Term 3. Of course, you're not really able to do the advanced versions of those subjects until Year 2 unless you really kick the shit of Runic Theory, so it doesn't change much in the long term in theory.

That being said, we're specced for solo learning (Willpower + Int being the most important stats for personal study), so if you decide to specialize in Alchemy, having it in Term 1 instead of Term 3 means you'll have an additional two terms of solo study under your belt. Given you get 1 Class Training Roll per subject per week and potentially up to 9 Free Actions as Alchemy Training Rolls, a character maxing Alchemy would only learn 10% of their Alchemy in class.



To be honest, your chances of taking on the Necromancer who took your power in a straight-up fight is somewhere between 0% and 0.01%. He's got his Magic Pool plus yours, and he has forty to fifty years of studying and training as a head start. He also has access to a school of magic (Necromancy) you have no teachers in. It's potentially possible to take him down, but you'll need to use guile of some sort to even stand a chance.



One of the loreposts mentions a Channeling 1 combat mage who killed thousands of people in the Archipelagean War. It's possible to be good at combat, it's just very, very suboptimal for your stat lineup. That being said, if you managed to get your power back, you'd be a pretty tremendous combat mage...



Alchemy is generally more about personal buffs and nerfs (in gameplay terms) than it is about combat. You could maybe amp the shit out of your reflexes, speed, strength and become a combat monster temporarily with Alchemy. You can do things like clouds of blinding, but doing that Alchemically is incredibly doing, while doing it as a spell is pretty easy.

Runes, on the other hand, are generally used to defensively spec a character. Get a bunch of runes that activate Shields of various sorts on your person, pay someone to charge them, and you can walk around with similar combat defenses as a great combat mage. Of course, this is expensive, but forging a bunch of runic equipment can really stop people from killing you.



Yes. You sold your magical power for the money to take care of them, and they now live a comfortable middle-class lifestyle funded by your sacrifice.




Runes generally aren't used for attacks. Attacks need to be altered on the fly (range, magnitude, etc), and runes can't be changed on the fly. Generally speaking they're a better bet for your standard defensive options, though that's not to say you couldn't use runic attacks, just that to do it effectively it'd mostly be original research.



Magic and magic strength is one of the few things you can't transfer easily. Magic can transfer other conceptual stuff, but not magic itself. The Curse of Transferal is unique in the sense that it allows you to draw on someone else's Magic Pool, and the number of people who know how to cast and break it probably number less than a hundred in the entire world.



Hell yeah it would, but when you cast a spell (or engrave a rune) you also set up the parameters of the spell/rune. So if you know you're going to need a fireball that needs to be 2 metres in radius and fly exactly 18 metres, you're golden. This is why runes tend to be either really weirdly specific (does x to y, where y is some fixed thing in the world), or activate fields of a certain radius because those are more than likely to be useful.

That being said, you could create a rune that just create a field of pure fire for a radius of twenty metres or so, and just have it on you as a sort of 'fuck off and die' option. Or a cone attack, or a ten-metre energy spear, or... as long as you can define the effect precisely beforehand, you can make it work.

You can't charge a rune over time (or a spell over time), though. If there's not enough magic to activate something, it just flows out. There needs to be a certain level of magic to stabilise it. Almost everything spell-related needs to get its entire charge dumped in very quickly, or it just won't work.



The Empire is really cutthroat, but mainly among the upper and middle classes. The upper classes loathe each other, each Undying Clan governs an entirely different city, and they usually think nothing of killing off another clan's Scions if they think they can get away with it. The middle classes serve the upper classes, though the upper classes are generally worried enough about revolts from that angle (which is how the Six-Fox Pact became a rebellion, and then a set of nations) that they intentionally cripple their ability to be powerful mages. No respectable lich or necromancer would bother killing a member of the middle class unless he thought they were genuinely indispensable to one of their enemies.

The massive underclass is seen as cattle. You might kill cattle if it became necessary, or if there were too many of them, or if one of them got in your way, but anyone who murders for sport is generally taken care of, because while the und

Could you make a spell that is super armour piercing and then train up that spell alot so that it is low mana cost and thereby make a mage killer spell?
 
Mostly yes, Remedial Spellcraft runs all the time, but Spirits and Runic Theory won't turn up again until Term 3. Of course, you're not really able to do the advanced versions of those subjects until Year 2 unless you really kick the shit of Runic Theory, so it doesn't change much in the long term in theory.

That being said, we're specced for solo learning (Willpower + Int being the most important stats for personal study), so if you decide to specialize in Alchemy, having it in Term 1 instead of Term 3 means you'll have an additional two terms of solo study under your belt. Given you get 1 Class Training Roll per subject per week and potentially up to 9 Free Actions as Alchemy Training Rolls, a character maxing Alchemy would only learn 10% of their Alchemy in class.
How often does History run?

Are Spirits and Runic Theory suitable for solo learning?
 
Could you make a spell that is super armour piercing and then train up that spell alot so that it is low mana cost and thereby make a mage killer spell?

Yes and no. Defenses tend to defend against one sort of attack (kinetic shields because basically everything attacking you from a non-mage is kinetic, thermal shields in part because people do love throwing fireballs around) and are generally a contest of magical strength to defeat. Mage-killers tend to take the form of really esoteric effects that most people don't know how to defend against. You can train up really weird esoteric effects to the point where they can kill someone, for instance.

For instance, a high-powered combat mage might have kinetic, thermal, electrical, shields up, a field that constantly disrupts magical constructs nearby (to stop mind-effecting magics), an air purification field to stop airborne poisons and a liquid repulsion field to stop anything in liquid form hitting him at all.

That being said, even a high-powered combat mage is going to be able to afford maybe one or two runic defenses that are powered up all the time at most. If they're not aware they're about to be attacked, and you can get the drop on them, they're usually dead.

How often does History run?

Are Spirits and Runic Theory suitable for solo learning?

You're not going to see History again this year. It runs because the mage who runs it also teaches Magical Archaeology, and that class generally runs second and third term followed by a major trip in the summer break.

Most teachers don't teach more than one class unless they like the class, notably. There are a lot of teachers at Vorstallen compared to a modern-day university of equivalent size, because the main reason teachers come here is to forge connections with great new talents and useful families, and also to gain access to the fairly massive library and research archives.

@occipitallobe Are their God in your universe?

No, just the Spirits of the Primordial Ether who are mostly just plain weird. One theory is that the entire world is just a physically incarnated Spirit, but nobody really knows. Most people who are religious either pray to their local Undying (which is generally supported by the liches on the basis that it helps lower the revolt risk), a Spirit (which doesn't really work), or the Saint of the Archipelago (mainly in the Archipelago). The last option had a pretty notable success rate while the Saint was still around, incidentally.
 
For instance, a high-powered combat mage might have kinetic, thermal, electrical, shields up, a field that constantly disrupts magical constructs nearby (to stop mind-effecting magics), an air purification field to stop airborne poisons and a liquid repulsion field to stop anything in liquid form hitting him at all.
So... kill him with gravity then?
You're not going to see History again this year. It runs because the mage who runs it also teaches Magical Archaeology, and that class generally runs second and third term followed by a major trip in the summer break.

Okay. I stand by my choice. History to get social bonuses that we likely won't gain for quite a while. Alchemy to take advantage of the social bonuses and have a large amount of study time before the next class starts.
 
No, we're not. These are the leading votes, the # is just the number of votes for each.

But it is likely that History + Spirits will win unless people vote for one of the choices in 7.

Hopefully someone from Spirits will change, as History is more turns away from being takable.
 
We're voting by plan?

Nah, I just noted that the votes divided really neatly into two separate plans. Feel free to vote for Alchemy and Spellcraft if you want, it's just the arguments seem to come down to "Take the long view, make money, get friends", and "Be more badass in the short term, work to recover our power from the necromancer."

Use magic to manipulate magic. Out-manipulate their magic?

Generally this is how you take down mental constructs (because they're pretty flimsy), but to disrupt more robust stuff you need a good amount of magic to begin with.

Fair combat is really tilted towards strong mages. The best advice for weak mages is 'don't get into a magical duel'. It's why you learn Combat Skill: Retreat instead of Combat Skill: Magic Defense - your absolute best bet against a combat mage is to skedaddle.
 
Time for tactical voting:
[X] Basic Alchemy
[X] Theory of Illusions
Illusions are weak.

Edit:
@occipitallobe (yes I know this won't ping you but you're lurking) Would History + Spirits synergize well, not only in the sense that History teaches us about spirits but in the sense that History might, ideally, give us more CHA or information that will otherwise make negotiating with spirits easier?
 
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Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by Umi-san on May 7, 2017 at 4:10 PM, finished with 68 posts and 17 votes.

  • [X] Theory of Souls and Spirits
    [X] Basic Alchemy
    [X]Remedial Spellcraft
    [X] Continental History
    [X] Theory of Illusions
    [X] Magical Practice and Awareness (Mandatory) - About one-fifth of the year has a low magical potential. This is less unusual than it seems, many wealthy or influental people prefer their children even if they have only a smidgeon of magical talent to learn to practice magic. However, someone with so little power simply cannot maintain a Kinetic or Thermal Shield, and a Magical Bludgeon is well out. Magical Blades can be used by those of low potential, but mastering them to the point where they use little mana is difficult and requires great willpower. As such, this course is an alternative to the other two. If weaker mages cannot fight, they can at least know where a fight is, and how to avoid it. They are also taught how to leave a fight quickly, and find avenues of escape above all else. All students learn Spell: Thermal Awareness, Spell: Kinetic Awareness, Spell: Burst of Light, Skill: Spellweaving, Combat Skill: Retreat.
    [X] Magical Theory (Mandatory) : Learn the hows and whys of magic. Mandatory for all students. Good performance in this class in the first term sees the year sorted into streams, with the most talented theorists taken on by actual magical theorists, while those less capable or less interested are sorted into lesser streams. All students need to know the theory in order to modify spells on the fly, develop new spells, and understand how spells work. All students learn Lore: Spellcraft, Lore: Primordial Ether. After the first term the students are divided based on exam results. The bottom quarter are sent to Magical Theory (Remedial), the next two quarters are sent to Magical Theory (Standard). The top quarter is divided again two times. The 75-95% cohort go to Magical Theory (Advanced), and and the top 5% of students (generally the top 5 students in a year) go to Magical Theory (Personal Tutoring).
    [X] Runic Theory
 
[X] Continental History

Tactical voting. *sigh*

I want some synergistic choices.
 
[X] Continental History

Tactical voting. *sigh*

I want some synergistic choices.
Why? If there's a tie he's either going to ask us to vote for a single one of the choices or just pick it based on maximum synergy + what he thinks the character would like.

Giving up on alchemy thus gains nothing and sacrifices the chance to get synergy if one of the spirit people change their minds.

@No7sHere I don't suppose I could get you to vote for History + Alchemy? It's the pair with the best long-term benefits.
 
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Illusions are weak.

Edit:
@occipitallobe (yes I know this won't ping you but you're lurking) Would History + Spirits synergize well, not only in the sense that History teaches us about spirits but in the sense that History might, ideally, give us more CHA or information that will otherwise make negotiating with spirits easier?

Kind of, maybe. Spirits like weird stuff. Maybe you can get a bonus by knowing about eighth century history with one, but knowing a lot of prime numbers, or how to make weird rattling noises is probably also equally good on average.

@occipitallobe What about the cult option what are they praying to?

Legitimately hadn't fleshed it out that much, given it was a write-in. That being said, more-or-less everything superpowered is either a really powerful mage, or a powerful Spirit. Or the Saint, but she's probably one or the other in some fashion, people just don't know how she did what she did.
 
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