But then a damage amp meditation makes even more sense then, since more damage is always good in combat no matter what, like I'm not sure what the scaling for the meditation would be, but if the damage increases at Mastered or Perfect then we could be looking at +20 Damage for all of Audrey's attacks, GKB, Black Scratch, Faulty Ground, Blinding Beam, Limb-Breaking Hold, and such.
See, that's precisely the logic I'm talking about. Like, its fine to go into things later when there's less competition for that kind of investment, but there's a whole lot of other things that can broaden Audrey's toolkit and capabilities in the short term, with more immediate returns.

Broadly speaking, I don't see a "+20 Damage Meditation" being remotely feasible at Audrey's current level without pushing it up to Mastered or so at the very least. And do we have that kind of wiggle room to spare before Audrey finally gets Knighted in the next three turns? When its already going to be competing with Black Scratch (For efficiency) and Invisibility (Efficiency and improved bonuses) for that investment?
 
Wasn't there an idea of having a Meditation that shone a spotlight on stealthed enemies?

And likewise buffing or reducing the Presence of our allies.
 
Wasn't there an idea of having a Meditation that shone a spotlight on stealthed enemies?

And likewise buffing or reducing the Presence of our allies.
Those are good utility things for group fighting, which will likely come up along with whatever tips Reinald drops for Audrey to look into during the remaining two turns of Squiredom I think.

But for now, getting that spread of things up to Rank 4 is more immediately useful given the expectations of a newly minted Knight, and the Tournament coming up next turn. So better to hit those thresholds first. Plus getting a Finale ready before we go on Audreys next Adventure is just good sense imo, especially so we can budget Zeal for its usage as an "Oh Shit" button.
 
See, that's precisely the logic I'm talking about. Like, its fine to go into things later when there's less competition for that kind of investment, but there's a whole lot of other things that can broaden Audrey's toolkit and capabilities in the short term, with more immediate returns.

Broadly speaking, I don't see a "+20 Damage Meditation" being remotely feasible at Audrey's current level without pushing it up to Mastered or so at the very least. And do we have that kind of wiggle room to spare before Audrey finally gets Knighted in the next three turns? When its already going to be competing with Black Scratch (For efficiency) and Invisibility (Efficiency and improved bonuses) for that investment?
I mean, I did say in my post that +20 was probably a master or perfect meditation.

Broadening Audrey's toolkit is fine, but improving her strengths is also a valid method, there's not a lot of ways to increase damage, some rotes like Black Scratch won't have their damage increase even at mastered. Our enemies will only continue to be harder to kill over time (in a 1v1 setting), we need a way to output more damage to scale with that, and this is one of the more consistent methods to do so.

In regards to Martial Style Rank, it would make more sense to just raise Hard-Fall to 5 before she hits 21, rather than Horde-Breaker to 4.
 
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In regards to Martial Style Rank, it would make more sense to just raise Hard-Fall to 5 before she hits 21, rather than Horde-Breaker to 4.
My current intention is to do Hardfall 5 next turn, the point behind also bringing up Hordebreaker is that the Benchmarks want multiple Martial Styles at 5 when we become a Knight, and also Hordebreaker 5 will give us another Rebuke point which are always nice to have.
 
Broadening Audrey's toolkit is fine, but improving her strengths is also a valid method, there's not a lot of ways to increase damage, some rotes like Black Scratch won't have their damage increase even at mastered. Our enemies will only continue to be harder to kill over time (in a 1v1 setting), we need a way to output more damage to scale with that, and this is one of the more consistent methods to do so.
Okay...But why is that urgent?

We haven't hit that point yet for Audrey, not by a long shot
 
Okay...But why is that urgent?

We haven't hit that point yet for Audrey, not by a long shot
I wouldn't say it's urgent, but I also don't think getting Hordebreaker to 4 is also urgent either, Audrey has barely used any Hordebreaker rotes this entire time, she will once she gets into a fight with many opponents but that hasn't happened yet nor does it look like it will happen before she gets Knighted. At least the extra damage could be useful in the tourney, she will still lose but would still do something with it.
 
I wouldn't say it's urgent, but I also don't think getting Hordebreaker to 4 is also urgent either, Audrey has barely used any Hordebreaker rotes this entire time, she will once she gets into a fight with many opponents but that hasn't happened yet nor does it look like it will happen before she gets Knighted.
She's been in more fights against multiple opponents than she has had circumstances where her DPS could be meaningfully impacted by having a Damage Meditation slotted in.

It's a bit of a false comparison there


At least the extra damage could be useful in the tourney, she will still lose but would still do something with it.
And by contrast having another point in Rebuke could let her survive for long enough to get another hit in
 
She's been in more fights against multiple opponents than she has had circumstances where her DPS could be meaningfully impacted by having a Damage Meditation slotted in.

It's a bit of a false comparison there

And by contrast having another point in Rebuke could let her survive for long enough to get another hit in
Inceasing her damage will improve her DPS over the whole fight, every attack will benefit from the extra damage, that adds up a lot more than your giving credit for.

I'm not saying we slot it in her capacity every fight, I'm just saying instead of raising Horde-Breaker to 4 this turn, we should grab a damage boost meditation, so if we encounter a fight where we want more DPS, she has that option.
 
Damn right, it won't." Rothulf Waering agreed. "Do you have any idea how often it is you get to catch a Dragon napping? Before it burned some towns down? I owe you a personal debt for not fucking this up on my watch.
Plans once discarded were reconstructed, as an intellect that surpassed all others of the age revised schemes set in place decades in the past.
1) Must be Christmas come early for Waering then, considering how doing this was noteworthy enough for the King to compliment Audrey about?
2) And I see having extra goodies meant that the King could pursue additional stretch goals, which probably matters.

What else would you call denying the Devil's whispers? What else could overcoming the desires of the heart be named?
3) I see the Dragon in our heart is also important then? I doubt he's using this merely as set dressing of a metaphor after all.

And if an ancient fort and its unlawful occupant met the sting of Steel javelins, hurled by a block of the King's Thanes–who could say?
4) This was so much more likely to work out than our plan, and that means that there can now be 1 more King's Thanes at minimum huh
 
3) I see the Dragon in our heart is also important then? I doubt he's using this merely as set dressing of a metaphor after all.

It's a metaphor, but that doesn't mean it's not important.

4) This was so much more likely to work out than our plan, and that means that there can now be 1 more King's Thanes at minimum huh

Steel weapons are useful, but not what makes someone a King's Thane, or even a prerequisite to being one.
 
The real point of Steel Javelins was ganking the Dragon without its Denial becoming an issue, which means that Alfred can now call down an artillery strike to make it Stop.
 
For the record, added a slightly more complete set of Finale Rules to the Rules Post:

Finales:

Finales are a specific subset of Rotes tied to a specific Martial Style and philosophically something of the 'end point' of that Style, and they are used to end fights, hence the name. Unlike most Rotes, they cost Zeal to use, in significant quantities, and can usually only be countered by other Finales or effects on a similar level from monsters or the environment, or occasionally a particularly clever plan involving the Finale's specific limitations.

Because most Finales have limitations of one sort or another. This is because it grants them power, and when two applicable Finales clash, it is the one with more severe limitations that almost universally emerges triumphant. This makes Finales without any restrictions rare.

Exactly what Finales do and what limitations they are under vary by the Finale, but generally speaking they are an attack that will defeat, and almost universally kill, one or more opponents (whether they hit multiple people varies by the Finale), but occasionally a defense designed to stop other Finales also qualifies, particularly if it involves a counterattack.

Learning Finales mostly works like learning any other Prayer, but you must actually use them to train them past the very basics, which costs Zeal. Specifically, you must actually perform the Finale at least once in order to get it to Refined, and then use it in battle at least a few times to get it to Mastered, and use it in battle quite a bit to get it to Perfected.

Technically, the 'first use' needed to get it to Refined could also be done in battle, but given the possibility of a Rough Finale backfiring or failing at a critical moment, this is not recommended. Learning multiple Finales for the same Martial Style also becomes harder, as your philosophy on the Style needs to change and evolve for that. There are no rules penalties for learning a second Finale in a single Style, but the third and subsequent ones will become more mechanically difficult.

Finales, as mentioned, cost Zeal to use rather than Fervour. They all have a flat Zeal cost and then add the wielder's Decade x 3 in additional Zeal as well. Technically, you can use less, down to a minimum of Base Cost + 3 for a 'First Decade' level Finale, but powering down your Finale can easily result in it failing, which is almost universally bad, especially versus opponents you think are worth using a Finale on. Their costs do not change with level of mastery, with them instead doing increasingly better in contests with other Finales.

Audrey is aware of several possible Finales in her own Martial Styles, but they are far from the only options available. Most warriors who use more than one or two Finales eventually wind up inventing at least one personally.

Including a reprise of the Finales Audrey is aware of, with names this time:

Fyrdman yt Wol:
-Back-Breaker: A wrestling Finale that breaks someone's spine over the cultivator's knee or some other fulcrum. This requires the victim to already be grappled to work. Only recommended for wrestlers, doesn't really counter other Finales unless already in a grapple. Pretty good at getting through other Finales if in a grapple, though, since it's narrow.

-The Fyrd's Will: A Finale designed for mass combat that requires multiple people to use it in concert. This effects a large area and can either be used as artillery fire, or a defense against similar widespread destruction.

Hard-Fall:
-Monster-Slaying Strike: This is basically just a significantly improved Giant-Killing Blow. It has no major restrictions, so it's weak against other Finales, but, well, it has no major restrictions. It's very useful against monsters that are dangerous but lack Finale-tier effects.

-Superlative Counter: This Finale is entirely reactive, it basically combines Clever Deflection and Giant-Killing Blow into a single maneuver, dodging an enemy Finale and striking back to slay them. The major restriction of this is that it is reactive, you can only use it in response to other Finales (or similar tier effects), so it can almost never make you win a fight you were otherwise losing (unless the opponent get cocky and uses a Finale they didn't need to). However, being purely reactive is a highly meaningful down side so it is excellent at beating other Finales in a direct conflict.

Severance:
-Severing Stroke: The only confirmed Severance Finale in the book Audrey possesses, this is a blow that deals terrible damage at the price of harming the user. This e user takes Fortitude damage directly as well as spending Zeal, which is certainly a restriction. This would avoid hitting a Knight's Focus since they're expecting it, but it's fairly hefty damage right to their Fortitude.

-Finally, it's theorized by Jack in the book Audrey has been given that you could make a Finale that's a powered up version of Throatslitter, only usable on helpless opponents, but near certain to kill them. Jack doesn't think that would be very useful, as helpless opponents seldom need a Finale to kill them, but he sort of rambles a little about how it's probably possible before the phrase 'like lambs to the slaughter' leads to him trailing off into a mutton stew recipe. Audrey's had it, it's a family recipe, she wasn't aware it was from this book before reading said book, but it's quite good.

Jack also spends several pages arguing with himself over whether or not the phrase is 'like lambs to the slaughter', 'like sheep to the slaughter', or 'like cows to the slaughter'. He ultimately forgets to write down his conclusions until half the book later, upon which he confesses that he forgot the answer but he remembers that, no matter what, it couldn't be 'like goats to the slaughter' as goats are too smart.

He then goes on to list the various qualities of goats, giving Audrey the impression that Jack's favorite animal may well be a goat.

I'm happy to answer questions if anyone has any. And will add clarifications if anything winds up too confusing.
 
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[X] Plan WHATS IN THE BOX

Gkb is our only tech that can never get cheaper and instead upgrades damage. I am highly curious how much damage a mastered and perfected version would do.

Maybe itll practically become a finale outright at perfect.
 
[X] Plan WHATS IN THE BOX

Gkb is our only tech that can never get cheaper and instead upgrades damage. I am highly curious how much damage a mastered and perfected version would do.

Maybe itll practically become a finale outright at perfect.

It won't, but GKB is almost as powerful as a move can get without actually becoming a Finale, requiring only a little bit more to become one (As listed in the new Finale guide)
 
For the record, added a slightly more complete set of Finale Rules to the Rules Post:



Including a reprise of the Finales Audrey is aware of, with names this time:



I'm happy to answer questions if anyone has any. And will add clarifications if anything winds up too confusing.
So do guys have grades for restrictions, like a really heavy one would be Grade 5 and an easy one would be Grade 1, and if a Finale has multiple than you combine all the Grades, also is their a limit to the amount of restrictions a Finale can have

Also is this a viable Finale

Was thinking of an idea for a Severance Finale, since Finale's do essentially infinite damage to the opponent if it isn't blocked, it does make a sword beam version more appealing, since then it can be used against effectively against tanky ranged/flying opponents or Audrey is maintaining distance and still needs to take them down. A good restriction I think would be the Finale will destroy the weapon the user wields when activating it, obviously we aren't going to destroy Sunder but it could be a solid option if we use it with a Fine-Quality Sword. Since Finale's do "fuck you" damage and auto-hit, they don't need the damage boost or offensive rolls boost that Sunder gives. It takes an action to take an item out of the Ark Ring though, but Crowley has his own so he could just drop the sword into Audrey's hands and she pops the Finale. Maybe another restriction or two like it can only be used on Turn 3 or later, to juice it up some more. I like this more than the Severing Stroke Finale that was mentioned since that does Fortitude damage, and I don't see why Audrey would do that to herself when she has no clear way of healing said Fortitude and a good portion of her tankiness relies on having a lot of it.
 
Technically, you can use less, down to a minimum of Base Cost + 3 for a 'First Decade' level Finale, but powering down your Finale can easily result in it failing, which is almost universally bad, especially versus opponents you think are worth using a Finale on.
For the initial "test fire" we need to do to unlock getting a Finale to Refined, do we need to do it at what is currently full blast, or is weakening it down to First Decade fine?
 
So do guys have grades for restrictions, like a really heavy one would be Grade 5 and an easy one would be Grade 1, and if a Finale has multiple than you combine all the Grades, also is their a limit to the amount of restrictions a Finale can have

It's more holistic than that. You just look at the Finale and see how restrictive its conditions are. Finales are more heavily narrative than a system like this would encapsulate, and their restrictions need to be part of that narrative, they all need to go together.

Also is this a viable Finale

So adding additional stuff like 'not before turn 3' requires a narrative reason as noted above, which this Finale lacks.

That out of the way, a Severance Finale that destroys your weapon when used is valid, but that's not a very big restriction when it comes to Finales, it's be stronger than one with no restrictions, but significantly weaker than Severing Stroke which does self damage, because cheap weapons, and spending an action to draw one, is still a much smaller restriction than taking a lot of damage is.
 
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It's more holistic than that. You just look at the Finale and see how restrictive its conditions are. Finales are more heavily narrative than a system like this would encapsulate, and their restrictions need to be part of that narrative, they all need to go together.



So adding additional stuff like 'not before turn 3' requires a narrative reason as noted above, which this Finale lacks.

That out of the way, a Severance Finale that destroys your weapon when used is valid, but that's not a very big restriction when it comes to Finales, it's be stronger than one with no restrictions, but significantly weaker than Severing Stroke which does self damage, because cheap weapons, and spending an action to draw one, is still a much smaller restriction than taking a lot of damage is.
Do Finale's override Death saving charms or Audrey's Silver Wire.
 
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