DangerKitty
shoddy writter
- Location
- lala land
I see. Well, i, in my humble unbiased opinion, think we should definitely master it. Possibly even perfect it and put it into every fight we ever do.
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Knight of Wessex (A Written World Quest)
- Thread starter Alectai
- Start date
- Original Fantasy Alt. History
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One of the good things about the current circumstances wealth of training is that once we've completely rounded out Audrey's kit, we can afford to have her focus her more restricted budget of training on specific projects we want to see her Master and/or Perfect. That way there isnt a need to develop a new ability from scratch, and training can go towards more straightforward progression instead of trying to patch holes in her build.
- Location
- USA
Personally, given that we've been all but told that there's no shot of us winning the North Sea tournament and we're mostly going for the prestige and networking, I think dedicating all of our Zeal to combat buffs to try to place slightly better is maybe missing the forest for the trees. We'll have only a single year after the tournament before we're expected to be a knight in full and have all the responsibilities and expectations that come with it.
I think having more of a focus on Administration (currently lmao) and Diplomacy (our horse is better than we are) would serve us well, and Diplomacy would even be put to good use in the tournament itself trying to make friends with people we either don't want to or cannot punch in the face.
Hell, getting something like a musical skill or poetry or dancing or something. I'm not sure if there's a skill for it, or if it would fall under administration, but knowledge of the law and how to most justly mete it out is a must if we're expected to own land and govern those who live on it. Knights weren't expected to just be weapons, they were meant to be administrators and were expected (especially in the chivalric ideal we're trying to emulate) to know and be capable of composing poetry and not stepping on their own foot in a courtly dance.
I know it's not as "numbers go up" as improving one of our combat skills, but I do think that it's very important to get squared away before we're expected to leave the nest. We're already ahead of the average new knight when it comes to our attributes/combat skill, let alone with Combat 7, the only real combat bits we're missing is bringing Hard Fall up to 5 and improving on the Web shape. Improving our horsemanship and then focusing on non combat once we meet that standard seems like it sets us up better for the day to day life of being a Knight, rather than going all in on tournaments.
This is a whole lot of yapping for something that we're waiting on Reinald to give his advice on, just wanted to get my thoughts out.
I think having more of a focus on Administration (currently lmao) and Diplomacy (our horse is better than we are) would serve us well, and Diplomacy would even be put to good use in the tournament itself trying to make friends with people we either don't want to or cannot punch in the face.
Hell, getting something like a musical skill or poetry or dancing or something. I'm not sure if there's a skill for it, or if it would fall under administration, but knowledge of the law and how to most justly mete it out is a must if we're expected to own land and govern those who live on it. Knights weren't expected to just be weapons, they were meant to be administrators and were expected (especially in the chivalric ideal we're trying to emulate) to know and be capable of composing poetry and not stepping on their own foot in a courtly dance.
I know it's not as "numbers go up" as improving one of our combat skills, but I do think that it's very important to get squared away before we're expected to leave the nest. We're already ahead of the average new knight when it comes to our attributes/combat skill, let alone with Combat 7, the only real combat bits we're missing is bringing Hard Fall up to 5 and improving on the Web shape. Improving our horsemanship and then focusing on non combat once we meet that standard seems like it sets us up better for the day to day life of being a Knight, rather than going all in on tournaments.
This is a whole lot of yapping for something that we're waiting on Reinald to give his advice on, just wanted to get my thoughts out.
Its not about winning or even placing top 3, this is a big tournament with likely as big prizes and a lot of prestige to go around the higher you place.
Ensuring we do the best we can would go a long way to improving our situation.
And for that we want to invest in combat related skills and rotes.
Its not like getting even better at combat is a bad choice, we're expecting a war in the next decade-ish, getting better at fighting would also ensure that we survive that.
AeonIlluminate
The power of friendship and aggressive landscaping
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Like, diplo is the only non-combat Skill that will maybe help at the tourney (maybe the magic item identify skill as well?), the rest won't gain us anything whereas combat stuff may put us one rank higher in the duels or melee or smth, which translates to more money, loot, and combat experience. Plus, getting Admin to 4 costs all of 12 Zeal, we will be getting either 115 or 121 Zeal on the last turn before Knighthood, we have a lot of Zeal to throw around at various skills. Plus, it's not like we're gonna burn like 40 Zeal on combat buffs at the tourney, all the combat boosts are things that are permenant and we will get anyway sooner rather than later.
Gate-Shatter is a move we can pick up for Severance, so its in the thematic space, we'd prolly just want to grab that first to expand our grasp of the thematic space first.
Having Audrey be a superlative pencil pusher who is instead MAXIMUM FORCE during combat is one really funny mental image to me.
Though is it a good idea to leave Innocuous Blow and Invisibility Cloak as trump cards not to be shown during mere tournaments?
Theoretically that could be figured out if people know what a Light Revelation is about, and if they know of Audrey's family Rotes, but it might be useful to at least require our enemies to work for such?
Though is it a good idea to leave Innocuous Blow and Invisibility Cloak as trump cards not to be shown during mere tournaments?
Theoretically that could be figured out if people know what a Light Revelation is about, and if they know of Audrey's family Rotes, but it might be useful to at least require our enemies to work for such?
- Location
- Space between realms
- Pronouns
- He
We could further this tactical deception by making use of those bluff trick (those that make our normal strikes seem more dangerous than they are). It would fit the prideful picture many people have of us.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I just realized, Black Scratch now does the same amount of damage as GKB did at Rough with the extra damage bonus from Deadliness and Sunder. Not really a Scratch anymore now huh.
"Tis but a scratch!" -t. Some Armless Guy
- Location
- USA
I'm not saying we shouldn't make any combat investments in the next two years. I'm saying that after getting Combat 7, Hard Fall 5, and probably a few levels in Web we're probably better off going for non-combat skills rather than trying to invest more in Tactics 6 (a skill we're already far and away superior to our peers in) or getting one of our stats to 8 when most newly minted knights have one stat/combat in 7 and we'd have three.
There is more to the quest than just the next tournament is the main point of my post. We will not be a tourney knight, that's not going to be the main focus of our time or growth or cultivation, so focusing everything we have to place slightly better in the tournament and leave our foundation behind is unwise. We've been warned as much by deadman, and will likely be told more thoroughly in quest by Reinald.
If Administration is purely financial and not legal, then we have no skill affording us legal knowledge. We have no skill in haggling or trade. We have no skill in dancing, something we will be expected to do at court for feasts, and will have to rely on athletics + soma most likely, as we do for poetry with diplomacy + psyche. Now, maybe those don't have skills dedicated to them in this system and they just fall under an umbrella, but if they do then I'd imagine leveling those skills directly would serve us better even if we can ape at them with our raw stats.
We have no meditations for interacting with people other than Resolve for protecting us from mind whammies, nothing to prevent us from being goaded into making an ass out of ourself due to Audrey's Wrath or Pride, something we should be careful of with our Outsider status and unknown enemies.
It is not wrong to have focused so much on our combat abilities. It is what's allowed us to get a Charger so early, to become so notable. But it's also not everything that Audrey will be doing, and I don't think that investing in getting a stat to 8 or our tactics to 6 when we're already above and beyond our peers in both of those is as worthwhile for us as making sure that Audrey can actually do what's expected of a knight when she's not holding a sword.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Was thinking of an idea for a Severance Finale, since Finale's do essentially infinite damage to the opponent if it isn't blocked, it does make a sword beam version more appealing, since then it can be used against effectively against tanky ranged/flying opponents or Audrey is maintaining distance and still needs to take them down. A good restriction I think would be the Finale will destroy the weapon the user wields when activating it, obviously we aren't going to destroy Sunder but it could be a solid option if we use it with a Fine-Quality Sword. Since Finale's do "fuck you" damage and auto-hit, they don't need the damage boost or offensive rolls boost that Sunder gives. It takes an action to take an item out of the Ark Ring though, but Crowley has his own so he could just drop the sword into Audrey's hands and she pops the Finale. Maybe another restriction or two like it can only be used on Turn 3 or later, to juice it up some more. I like this more than the Severing Stroke Finale that was mentioned since that does Fortitude damage, and I don't see why Audrey would do that to herself when she has no clear way of healing said Fortitude and a good portion of her tankiness relies on having a lot of it.
I would advocate getting a good amount of rough rotes, meditations, and feats next turns planning so we have a good idea what they will do mechanically and then we can basically do our shopping list of what are useful skills for the tournament and what are useful for later. I would say that we don't only go combat ones too. We can get a general idea for basic trade/barter skill (sounds pretty good for the market exploring), identifying items skill (good for tactics and shopping), one or two diplomacy skills ( sounds like we can get a light based one), ect. Getting a good list of rough skills should help us really hone in on what we want for the tournament what we want before we finish as a squire and then what we want turn 1 as a knight.
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- He/Him
Wait, Knights can pop Finales on turn 1, but Norsemen can't till turn 3 because of the Nornirs. The only way to block a Finale is with a shield or another Finale but if a Knight pops one during turn 1 or 2 then the Norsemen wouldn't be able to block it with their own Finale, they should have a shield but if we break the shield with Francisca Toss then there's nothing really stopping the Finale from just killing them right.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
It's okay to counter that kind of thing with another Finale, it's that they can't pull the trigger first until a combat round or two have gone by.
How costly are our Finales? Will we be able to use multiple in a single fight assuming we start with full resources, or is it more a "you better hope this ends the fight, because you're out either way" thing?
AeonIlluminate
The power of friendship and aggressive landscaping
- Pronouns
- They/Them
We don't know how much they cost yet, but I feel like 10-15 Zeal is somewhere around what it will be, that's a number thats reachable for us but is still vaguely relevant for people at higher levels (I am pulling this number out of thin air, it feels kinda right but hell if I know). I'm not quite sure what you mean by start with full resources? We always start with full Fervour, and we don't have a cap on how much Zeal we can have lying around, we just tend to spend almost all of it immediately. Finales are meant to end the fight, its the main point of them, but using one of them (unless it has inbuild penalties to boost its power, like that self-damage Severance one) doesn't do anything except burn a bunch of our Zeal and maybe some Fervour (dunno if they cost both, or just Zeal). We do have a soft-cap I believe of most Finales being once per fight, but that might be just that the enemy now knows we can do that one, so its harder to pull off again.
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- He/Him
You're not expected to have any Perfect Prayers as a starting Knight. A few Mastered ones, yes, but none at Perfected. Reinald would personally not advise going for Perfected yet, you still have other stuff you need and it's a huge investment.
Finales cost Zeal, so you're hitting your cultivation every time you use them. You're spending xp. As for how much I need to workshop that a little, but it's probably a significant percentage of your yearly Zeal. I'm thinking it actually scales based on Decade...costing more the more powerful you get. You can probably technically downcast but never should, since if you need a Finale at all, you probably need the best one you can get.
It's probably gonna be a tad more than this and, as mentioned, scale with Decade. Probably. I need to eyeball some numbers. The intent is 'a meaningful amount of Zeal' and that needs me to check what that is at different power levels.
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- Location
- USA
Deadman, could I actually ask about the existence of a few skills? I'm not sure whether or not they'd fall under the umbrella of other skills, or if they exist but can be aped at by using a broader skill in that category, stuff like that.
Most important in my mind being Law-making or Judicial knowledge or something along those lines. Knowing the rules of the land and how to uphold them the most fairly/justly. Case law, precedent, judgement, etc etc. Of our existing skills this might fall under Administration but I'm not sure if Administration is purely for the financial side of land management.
Then less important imo but still worth asking over is a skill for trade/haggling, not to main as a trader but more to know how valuable a given good/service is and make sure that we aren't cheated or don't ask people for ridiculous sums. We've had a few market purchases where us finding something was determined by our grace, but I'd imagine we'll have to deal with more merchants out to make a buck when we're trading for materials from other realms or dealing with caravans coming through our territory.
Also there are a few that I'm sure we can at least roll for already with our stats + athletics or some other near approximation like Poetry, which we know we can use Psyche + Diplomacy for, or Dancing (I would imagine we can ape with Soma + athletics). Do these have their own individual skills or are they meant to use a broader skill like diplomacy/athletics because making individual skills for them would be too much bookkeeping to be worth it?
Most important in my mind being Law-making or Judicial knowledge or something along those lines. Knowing the rules of the land and how to uphold them the most fairly/justly. Case law, precedent, judgement, etc etc. Of our existing skills this might fall under Administration but I'm not sure if Administration is purely for the financial side of land management.
Then less important imo but still worth asking over is a skill for trade/haggling, not to main as a trader but more to know how valuable a given good/service is and make sure that we aren't cheated or don't ask people for ridiculous sums. We've had a few market purchases where us finding something was determined by our grace, but I'd imagine we'll have to deal with more merchants out to make a buck when we're trading for materials from other realms or dealing with caravans coming through our territory.
Also there are a few that I'm sure we can at least roll for already with our stats + athletics or some other near approximation like Poetry, which we know we can use Psyche + Diplomacy for, or Dancing (I would imagine we can ape with Soma + athletics). Do these have their own individual skills or are they meant to use a broader skill like diplomacy/athletics because making individual skills for them would be too much bookkeeping to be worth it?
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- He/Him
The listed skills cover all the things a Knight is supposed to know to do their job. Something like a crafting skill would be separate, but the intention is that Audrey can do all standard Knightly duties with the listed skills.
Legal knowledge is probably mostly Scholarship, though some of the stuff needed for land management, like taxes, might be more Administration. It's all definitely under one of the two, anyway.
Analyzing value is under Administration for the most part, actual haggling is Diplomacy. Crowley also has some specific bonuses in the 'analyzing value' department.
They're meant to fall under broader skills, for the most part. Dancing would be either Athletics or Diplomacy depending on the type of dance, probably.
- Location
- USA
Got it, thanks. I wasn't sure how similarly this was meant to be to Norse Quest, where if memory serves we essentially had to ask and invent every skill we needed because Dad was literally the worst teacher in the world.
That sets my mind at ease a bit. I still think we should focus more on Administration, Diplomacy, and Scholarship - especially diplomacy pre-tournament, but at least we won't need to get new skills from scratch.
- Location
- England
My personal current desire is getting us to baseline all-4 in our Skills before we graduate, but I think (outside of arguably Diplo, as you say) we can afford to do that after rather than before the Tournament. Doing so would be 60 Zeal, which is significant but not beyond our ability to casually do in one turn (and I will be a one-issue voter for doing so on that turn; I agree that our non-combat abilities are important, and we especially want competent Admin when we're about to get landed). After that I think I'd angle for Psyche 7 before raising any of our non-Tactics skills to 5, though; it's roughly equivalent to a +1 in all our skills in terms of expected value anyway, alongside all the other benefits of +Psyche, and raising all our non-Tactics Psyche skills to 5 costs as much as Psyche 7 would anyway.
AeonIlluminate
The power of friendship and aggressive landscaping
- Pronouns
- They/Them
One thing to note, each Psyche rank is worth +0.5 on skill checks, not +1. You're right on the rest of the benefits though.
I.F. Ister
Fortifying The Thread
- Pronouns
- He/They
I'll note that while it is described as 'over the knee', you can use anything as the fulcrum as long as it meets the necessary requirements. Including your own back, even.
At its core, Roman cultivation is all about being the best possible Roman you can be, that is to say, by striving to achieve Romanitas. A cultivator works with others out of a desire to reap rewards both for themselves and for Rome as a whole.
In real life, advancing through the ranks of the Roman military was primarily achieved through battlefield accolades. Romans fought in formation, yes, but they also put great emphasis on one-on-one fighting skills.