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Stormfall (An AU Naruto Quest)

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Shrooms said:
If you are interested in further pursuing "non-combat missions" (may or may not still include combat sometimes)
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This sounds like a pretty good team composition for bounty hunting with a focus on capture-alive missions. Intel gathering, tracking, and then making sure that they survive the trip back.
 
Crunbum said:
...But no, really, its a problem with FtD as a system - where any and all resources are more effective the more concentrated they become and the best way a genin can serve their country is by being a chakra battery for a jounin to cast a technique. No way to escape the reality of one 30k XP ninja being worth far more than five 6k XP ones as long as outcomes scale with absolute difference between +/- square root of Skill XP.
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There's a difference between general military strategy and combat strategy though. 1 30k XP jounin may defeat 5 6k XP chuunin 99/100 but that jounin can't be in every place at once. If those chuunin are allowed to attack civilian infrastructure uncontested (or provide defense to friendly merchants, nobles, etc. from MOST threats) then its entirely possible for them to provide more benefit than the single more powerful ninja.

also

[X] Action Plan: Lemmings to the Slaughter

Though I would suggest @Sir Stompy that we change the language in the interrogation part of the plan. To never reveal we know the truth that Haru's was on an official mission. The only way Hanzou lets us live is if he thinks we will never tell a soul about this & he can't do that if we tell HIM. This is a "He knows we know he knows but no one else can know situation". A ninja's mind is tricky and has to be comfortable living in the gray.

To be clear this is the part I'm objecting to: "We know that this must never leak and we deeply regret finding Haru's team."

I think this part afterwards is also not the best language: "If asked why we hunted Haru down, say that we thought he could come after us once he recovered a bit, and we thought it was him or us. Do try to subtly emphasize that we took down an (injured) jounin as genin -- as a sign of our utility."

This signals that we're self-interested which is not what Hanzou wants to hear from us. He wants to hear that we're ready to kill & die for Rain (and him). I think in this instance a different variation of the truth would actually be better for us and to simply say we killed Haru because he killed a Rain ninja and the penalty of treason is death.

Again, he'll probably know why we killed him but for us to live we have to be able to convince him that we're not going to instantly blow up the entire cover as soon as we walk out of the building.
 
Threnodist said:
To never reveal we know the truth that Haru's was on an official mission
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The characters don't actually know anything. They heard Haru's claims, but he'd credibly had a mental break - sounds like treason to me.

The players have the benefit of Haru's viewpoint chapter, but even that leaves reasonable doubt. No orders were issued. Haru could easily be labeled a traitor and the PCs told to keep their mouths shut about it for the sake of village morale.
 
Threnodist said:
Though I would suggest @Sir Stompy that we change the language in the interrogation part of the plan. To never reveal we know the truth that Haru's was on an official mission. The only way Hanzou lets us live is if he thinks we will never tell a soul about this & he can't do that if we tell HIM. This is a "He knows we know he knows but no one else can know situation". A ninja's mind is tricky and has to be comfortable living in the gray.
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I'll revisit this tonight but per WoG on Discord the PCs likely cannot credibly claim that they don't think Hanzou ordered this.
FaintlySorcerous said:
The characters don't actually know anything. They heard Haru's claims, but he'd credibly had a mental break - sounds like treason to me.

The players have the benefit of Haru's viewpoint chapter, but even that leaves reasonable doubt. No orders were issued. Haru could easily be labeled a traitor and the PCs told to keep their mouths shut about it for the sake of village morale.
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Alas they don't actually believe this and cannot credibly claim it against the supermicroexpression readers of T&I

Per Discord we plausibly can get an audience with Hanzou for "debriefing". So we hopefully won't leak to any intermediate interrogators.
 
@audience- Shrooms said he's willing to tell us what the scrolls have so we can make build plans about it if we precommit to buying cryptography 10 on one of the PCs. Based on effortposts I did earlier it's looking like Shion or Momoka can most easily afford cryptography 1->10 rn, any audience preferences? Iirc our main hope was paper jutsu for Shion to learn.
 
Sir Stompy said:
'll revisit this tonight but per WoG on Discord the PCs likely cannot credibly claim that they don't think Hanzou ordered this.
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I'm not on discord so I don't have the WoG but my point is less about credibly claiming Hanzou didn't order this versus demonstrating we'll lie for him because we understand this is something that shouldn't get out. Putting my thoughts into other words, I don't think we can convince Hanzou we think Haru acted on his own initiative but we can convince him we know our place and won't breathe a word of this.

The counterpoint to my suggestion is that he might more highly value a truth-telling subordinate versus one that bends the truth to meet his perceived best interests.
 
OK, we got the info. The scroll's for Cresting Wave, the jutsu Sai used in the fight, it's in the jutsu doc. Mobility jutsu in Water. Build plans:

[X] Build Plan (Momoka): Become a Fucking Chunin
Cryptography 1->10 (27)
Ath 36->39 (114)
Physique 15->20 (90)
SotE 29->30 (15)
Ath 39->40 (40)
Substitution 15->19 (70)
She should have 27 XP left, reserved for FP buys. She gets the cryptography since someone has to, Shion needs her XP for unfucking her build choices, and Momoka needed a new 10 later anyway so this just moves that up a bit.

[X] Build Plan (Shion): Become a Fucking Chunin
Alt 33->38 (180)
Substitution 12->19 (107)
Cresting Wave 0->10 (27.5)
Mednin 18->20 (39)
Medknow 19->20 (20)
She has 22 XP left. Save it for FP if needed.

[X] Build Plan (Kenzou): Become a Fucking Chunin
Gale Edge 25->30 (140)
Ath 39->40 (40)
Alt 34->38 (146)
He has 49 XP left. Save for FP if needed.

EDIT: Was convinced to hold Alt back a bit for more potential FP buys on Shion/Kenzou
EDIT: Remembered to buy Substitution
 
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[X] Build Plan (Momoka): Become a Fucking Chunin
[X] Build Plan (Shion): Become a Fucking Chunin
[X] Build Plan (Kenzou): Become a Fucking Chunin
 
faflec said:
Is this XP award increased based on the number of missions we do? Like, if one arc ends up being two extreme difficulty missions that we accomplish, would we expect our XP bonus here to be +400?
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I think 'arcs' and 'missions' will tend to coincide pretty closely, so it's more likely IMO that it would just be multiple shorter arcs. But yes you would presumably get a reward for both. OTOH the nature of extreme difficulty arcs is such that I can't imagine you would be able to do them back to back like that, needing to recoup FP and such if nothing else. I suppose we'll see
 
Threnodist said:
Though I would suggest @Sir Stompy that we change the language in the interrogation part of the plan. To never reveal we know the truth that Haru's was on an official mission.
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FaintlySorcerous said:
The characters don't actually know anything. They heard Haru's claims, but he'd credibly had a mental break - sounds like treason to me.

The players have the benefit of Haru's viewpoint chapter, but even that leaves reasonable doubt. No orders were issued. Haru could easily be labeled a traitor and the PCs told to keep their mouths shut about it for the sake of village morale.
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Sir Stompy said:
I'll revisit this tonight but per WoG on Discord the PCs likely cannot credibly claim that they don't think Hanzou ordered this.

Alas they don't actually believe this and cannot credibly claim it against the supermicroexpression readers of T&I

Per Discord we plausibly can get an audience with Hanzou for "debriefing". So we hopefully won't leak to any intermediate interrogators.
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You really should be asking these questions on SV so I can give a more official answer rather than an off the cuff remark :V

To elaborate on this, all 3 characters find it very unlikely that they will be able to hide any of their knowledge. It's true that they could try to construe what they've seen as an act of insanity, but that doesn't mean they really believe it. Haru's "insanity" is also more clear to the players than it is to the PCs IMO.

It seems reasonably likely that Sai et al were acting on Haru's orders, and by extension, Hidden Rain's. Why Haru did what he did, they don't know specifically, but the concept of 'false flag' is definitely in Academy lessons. The emphasis on secrecy from both Sai's team and Haru only further suggests this was info they were not supposed to be privy to.

All that being said, trying to play it off as ignorance is an option but one they are doubtful would convince Hanzou it is worth the risk of the information floating around compared to just having them killed for treason. If nothing else, someone else could hear the details from them and put it together. If you want to play up the loyalty angle, it would be better (in their opinion) to focus more on their continued worth to Rain and so on than to try and pretend they didn't see anything suspicious
 
Shrooms said:
To elaborate on this, all 3 characters find it very unlikely that they will be able to hide any of their knowledge. It's true that they could try to construe what they've seen as an act of insanity, but that doesn't mean they really believe it. Haru's "insanity" is also more clear to the players than it is to the PCs IMO.

It seems reasonably likely that Sai et al were acting on Haru's orders, and by extension, Hidden Rain's. Why Haru did what he did, they don't know specifically, but the concept of 'false flag' is definitely in Academy lessons. The emphasis on secrecy from both Sai's team and Haru only further suggests this was info they were not supposed to be privy to.
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Clarification: the things that they know are...
  • They merked a bunch of genin who they know to be Rain nin who were wearing Hidden Rock forehead protectors and acting aggressively towards Rain civilians.
  • Probably some approximate knowledge of geopolitics (Rain and Rock aren't friends, Rain is looking for allies, if word got out that Rock was attacking Rain that would credibly be a nucleation point for an alliance).
  • Sai claimed that they were acting on official orders.
  • Other stuff?
From this they could credibly infer 'Hanzo ordered false flag attacks on his own people to kick off an alliance'.

But that's not the only theory that fits the data.
Shrooms said:
All that being said, trying to play it off as ignorance is an option but one they are doubtful would convince Hanzou it is worth the risk of the information floating around compared to just having them killed for treason. If nothing else, someone else could hear the details from them and put it together. If you want to play up the loyalty angle, it would be better (in their opinion) to focus more on their continued worth to Rain and so on than to try and pretend they didn't see anything suspicious
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My suggestion here isn't that they try to pretend that they didn't see anything suspicious, it's that they go 'this fucker was clearly a treasonous asshole (killed our sensei, killed Rain civilians) who lied to the genin in his care (dumb clan kids who don't question anything)' and Hanzou's response there is 'what the fuck, I told him to go find evidence of Rock attacking Rain, not to go manufacture it, shit, this can't get out because Rock is attacking us, I bet this guy was working with Rock to make it look like their attacks were actually coming from Rain, I need y'all to keep quiet'.

Unless Hanzou has a reputation as a particularly heartless and slippery character - the sort of guy who would pass down official orders to stage false-flag attacks on his own civilians to secure allies for the coming war - this fits all of the available facts, no? And I doubt that the viewpoint characters see him that way: they're pretty inexperienced genin who have been thoroughly indoctrinated to believe Rain is moral and upstanding and that Hanzou is divine-adjacent. I think it would be legitimately easier for them to believe that Haru and Haru alone is an asshole than upending their entire worldview.

I'm not convinced that this isn't true, honestly. The only thing that we have which implies that Hanzou gave any orders was Haru's interpretation of his tone in a briefing. Maybe Hanzou meant to maintain plausible deniability, but maybe he just had something (poison gas) in his throat or he was thinking about how much he hates Rock.

(Unrelated: why do you capitalize Senbon and Shuriken? Seems kinda like capitalizing Hollow Point Bullet.)
 
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FaintlySorcerous said:
'this fucker was clearly a treasonous asshole (killed our sensei, killed Rain civilians) who lied to the genin in his care (dumb clan kids who don't question anything)'
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There may well be consequences for signaling that they do not approve of or understand the behavior and why "it was necessary" or somesuch

FaintlySorcerous said:
Unless Hanzou has a reputation as a particularly heartless and slippery character - the sort of guy who would pass down official orders to stage false-flag attacks on his own civilians to secure allies for the coming war
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I would say in the fear-of-god scale he's closer to Yagura than to Hiruzen. He definitely has a greater air of reasonableness than Yagura does, but he is certainly known for ruthlessness as well when it comes to Hidden Rain's interests. This is part of what earns him loyalty - his willingness to do what is necessary on behalf of Hidden Rain even at his own personal expense.

FaintlySorcerous said:
(Unrelated: why do you capitalize Senbon and Shuriken? Seems kinda like capitalizing Hollow Point Bullet.)
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My phone does it automatically so I subconsciously started doing it too lol
 
On the topic of staying in Rain vs leaving: staying in Rain has us either continuing false flag attacks or participating in outright war. Especially given IRL situations, I'm not interested in doing that and I wouldn't enjoy having to play that. Like even if we ignore the possible executions and how we'd have to prove our worth to Hanzou's regime, ninja are still soldiers and still fight in wars as usual. Staying missing gives us a lot more freedom.
 
@Shrooms would we be expected to report back to Rain after the Mediums heal if we planned on staying loyal? Or can we take more time and let the Severe heal first?

Also for the missing-nin fork, is the chance of anyone tracking us to Kenzou's village before Momoka heals decent? Is it kinda normal for ninja to hole up in a civvie village for a month or two to heal?
 
DanZapman said:
sure thing. hey so what happened to Akatsuki in this timeline
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Its not a thing yet in canon, it started out as a group of rebels led by Yahiko, Nagato and Konan and the actual Akatsuki only happens after Hanzo ambushed them with the help of Danzo's ROOT and Nagato started blasting Rinnegan stuff, escaping but crippling himself for life in the process. Fastforward some years, Hanzo goes old and weak, Nagato creates the Six Paths of Pain and kills him and takes over Rain, forming Akatsuki proper.

Nagato, Konan and Yakiho were Rain Urchins that Jiraiya took in and trained for a while. In this timeline, Jiraiya is dead, as are the rest of the Sannin. It is unclear if he died before or after their meeting, but it shouldn't really matter regardless - it should be decades before Akatsuki becomes relevant - if going by the canon timeline, at least. Most of its members are either kids or are not even alive yet.
 
Sir Stompy said:
[X] Action Plan: Lemmings to the Slaughter
  • Discuss our situation
    • If this leaks it will be an international crisis.
    • If Hanzou is willing to kill Rain civilians to manufacture an international incident he's willing to kill some clanless genin
    • Our only protector was just killed, if we want to return to Rain we need to convince them we're worth more alive than dead.
    • We cannot breathe a word of this around anyone from Kenzou's village -- it puts their lives at risk.
    • Our cover story is almost entirely the truth, we found enemy infiltrators in Sarobetsu, Jun was killed and we are resting up to heal. Tell everyone we plan to return to Rain after Momoka's wounds improve (mechanically after the Mediums all clear)
  • Head to Kenzou's hometown
    • Rest and recover from our wounds
    • Kenzou can spend some time with his dad/girlfriend, he might not see them again....
    • After the Mediums are recovered, head back to Hidden Rain
  • Interrogation
    • Insist on reporting to Hanzou himself only. If this does not fly, give as few details as possible before escalating up the chain of command as far as practicable.
    • During the interrogation, do not make any suppositions, report the facts only.
    • Demand to see Hanzou again.
    • If we do end up getting an audience with Hanzou, make an impassioned plea that we're worth more alive than dead to Rain
      • We understand that sometimes leaders need to do distasteful things for their people.
      • There's a war on and we've proved our loyalty by fire to Rain, we will do anything for this village.
        • We can continue to serve in this war doing WHATEVER is necessary for Rain.
      • We could have gotten away clean in the aftermath, but chose to report back, knowing that we might be silenced. Because we love this village so much.
      • We understand the need for tightly held secrecy here and we will do whatever is necessary to keep it, even die.
    • If asked why we hunted Haru down, say that we thought he would hunt us down after he picked up our trail. It was him or us.
    • If he does decide to kill us, salute Rain as he does it.
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Sir Stompy said:
[X] Action Plan: Marked for Death
  • Discuss our situation
    • If this leaks it will be an international crisis.
    • If Hanzou is willing to kill Rain civilians to manufacture an international incident he's willing to kill some clanless genin
    • Our only protector was just killed.
    • We need to go missing if we want to live.
    • We cannot breathe a word of this around anyone from Kenzou's village -- it puts their lives at risk.
    • Our cover story is almost entirely the truth, we found enemy infiltrators in Sarobetsu, Jun was killed and we are resting up to heal. Tell everyone we plan to return to Rain after Momoka's is healed.
  • Head to Kenzou's hometown
    • Rest and recover from our wounds
    • Kenzou can spend some time with his dad/girlfriend, he probably won't see them again....
    • Spend some time clearing out chakra beasts for the village
    • Kenzou can learn some smithing when he has the chance
    • Momoka can help build walls/buildings with MEW
    • Shion can help out with her medical skills
  • Consult Jun's intel to see where we should go next.
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Plan updates.

I think I prefer Marked for Death. An entire quest of being Hanzou's murder weapon doesn't see fun compared to exploring the world. Delving dungeons and having fun.

What's the appeal of returning to Rain again? Rain is the sort of place that slaughters their own civvies to manufacture consent to declare offensive war for reasons(tm).
 
[X] Action Plan: Marked for Death

Edit: at work for a fair few hours, yet, but I'll check out the buildpaths later today or tomorrow.
 
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Shrooms said:
I think 'arcs' and 'missions' will tend to coincide pretty closely, so it's more likely IMO that it would just be multiple shorter arcs. But yes you would presumably get a reward for both. OTOH the nature of extreme difficulty arcs is such that I can't imagine you would be able to do them back to back like that, needing to recoup FP and such if nothing else. I suppose we'll see
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*laughing evilly*
 
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