After the Ashes: A Fire Nation Chancellor Quest

Temes1066 said:

Don't you mean Qin?

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Yes, thank you! This is what I get for writing at 2 AM 😅

[X] a beautiful young woman, clad in the disconcertingly foreign garb so favored by the socialites and debutantes of the Colonies, though such was not a surprise given the fact that she stood foremost among them. While holding no official title, she was a sufficiently Popular Debutante to have attracted attention even within the home isles, an unusual feat for one so disadvantaged by the nature of their lineage. That alone was not sufficient to warrant her for this position, however; the fact that she'd carried modernist politics to the colonies was far more relevant to their reasons for meeting here tonight. The salons, reading groups, and rallies that she'd played a role in were… numerous, to say the least, and extended to those within the Fire Nation proper, where she was apparently seen as a prime exemplar of their goals. [Eloquent, Passionate, Popular Debutante, Modernist Inclination, Mid 30s]

[X] a beautiful young woman, clad in the disconcertingly foreign garb so favored by the socialites and debutantes of the Colonies, though such was not a surprise given the fact that she stood foremost among them. While holding no official title, she was a sufficiently Popular Debutante to have attracted attention even within the home isles, an unusual feat for one so disadvantaged by the nature of their lineage. That alone was not sufficient to warrant her for this position, however; the fact that she'd carried modernist politics to the colonies was far more relevant to their reasons for meeting here tonight. The salons, reading groups, and rallies that she'd played a role in were… numerous, to say the least, and extended to those within the Fire Nation proper, where she was apparently seen as a prime exemplar of their goals. [Eloquent, Passionate, Popular Debutante, Modernist Inclination, Mid 30s]
[X] natural stewardship, a more politically acceptable term for environmentalism within the context of the Fire Nation. While complaints about pollution have traditionally been dismissed as merely a lack of resolve and endurance, recent movements around natural stewardship have seen success in making arguments for the preservation and restoration of natural environments specifically rooted in the romantic principle of maintaining the beauty of the homeland. This typically plays well with traditionalists and rural populations, though faces the potential for major pushback from the industrial interests of the Fire Nation.
[X] Namiko Morishita

[X] a wiry woman of middle age, possessing a scholar's frame much similar to his; that wasn't much of a surprise given her role as a Scholar-Bureaucrat in Yu Dao, though he found some satisfaction in the idea that intellectuals might once more find influence in the court, even if they were Colonial. His office had dealt with her in the past, her authority over commerce in Yu Dao having made her a necessary contact for the construction of the air fleet, and the things he'd heard were good for the most part. She had little fear of the new but was not an iconoclast or radical; he was told that the mercantilist faction had fostered a healthy partnership with her over the years, in large part due to her influence over colonial commerce. [Tactful, Diligent, Scholar-Bureaucrat, Mercantilist Inclination. Mid 40s]
[X] natural stewardship, a more politically acceptable term for environmentalism within the context of the Fire Nation. While complaints about pollution have traditionally been dismissed as merely a lack of resolve and endurance, recent movements around natural stewardship have seen success in making arguments for the preservation and restoration of natural environments specifically rooted in the romantic principle of maintaining the beauty of the homeland. This typically plays well with traditionalists and rural populations, though faces the potential for major pushback from the industrial interests of the Fire Nation.
[X] Namiko Morishita

[X] an imposing older woman, possessing a soldier's build, though such was to be expected from an officer in the Colonial Security Forces. While technically just a state-backed militia, the Colonial Security Forces had long filled a similar role to that of the Domestic Forces for the colonies, handling inter-colonial policing and territorial defense in situations where the army proved insufficient. The formalization of the CSF had come in the last years of Azulon's rule, the generals having advocated for the formalization of existing colonial militias, and it was an open secret that she held close ties with the militarist faction in court. [Willful, Honorable, Colonial Officer, Mild Militarist Inclinations, Early 50s]
[X] bending revitalization, a movement across both the home isles and the colonies that sought to maintain and restore the knowledge of the traditional forms of fire bending, both those of a ritual and cultural nature. Fire dancing, calligraphy, and sky shows were all major features of the movement's efforts, all of which are arts that were significantly deemphasized in the national academies which have since begun to focus primarily on the combat applications of firebending. This is respected among the traditionalists, though lacks broader appeal outside of those who yearn for the largely lost arts of the Fire Nation's past.

Decided to go with this combo. Honormaxxing!

@Granite I'm curious but which faction would Mai family be in? You know before they found out their daughter was dating the Fire lord and if they had any brain would instantly jump onto Zuko ship.

[X] a beautiful young woman, clad in the disconcertingly foreign garb so favored by the socialites and debutantes of the Colonies, though such was not a surprise given the fact that she stood foremost among them. While holding no official title, she was a sufficiently Popular Debutante to have attracted attention even within the home isles, an unusual feat for one so disadvantaged by the nature of their lineage. That alone was not sufficient to warrant her for this position, however; the fact that she'd carried modernist politics to the colonies was far more relevant to their reasons for meeting here tonight. The salons, reading groups, and rallies that she'd played a role in were… numerous, to say the least, and extended to those within the Fire Nation proper, where she was apparently seen as a prime exemplar of their goals. [Eloquent, Passionate, Popular Debutante, Modernist Inclination, Mid 30s]

[X] bending revitalization, a movement across both the home isles and the colonies that sought to maintain and restore the knowledge of the traditional forms of fire bending, both those of a ritual and cultural nature. Fire dancing, calligraphy, and sky shows were all major features of the movement's efforts, all of which are arts that were significantly deemphasized in the national academies which have since begun to focus primarily on the combat applications of firebending. This is respected among the traditionalists, though lacks broader appeal outside of those who yearn for the largely lost arts of the Fire Nation's past.

[X] Namiko Morishita

[X] a wiry woman of middle age, possessing a scholar's frame much similar to his; that wasn't much of a surprise given her role as a Scholar-Bureaucrat in Yu Dao, though he found some satisfaction in the idea that intellectuals might once more find influence in the court, even if they were Colonial. His office had dealt with her in the past, her authority over commerce in Yu Dao having made her a necessary contact for the construction of the air fleet, and the things he'd heard were good for the most part. She had little fear of the new but was not an iconoclast or radical; he was told that the mercantilist faction had fostered a healthy partnership with her over the years, in large part due to her influence over colonial commerce. [Tactful, Diligent, Scholar-Bureaucrat, Mercantilist Inclination. Mid 40s]

Vehrec said:

They wiped out the 'globe-spanning civilization' by attacking the four points where their culture gathered and was centered, and then attacked and destroyed the animals upon which they were dependent. Suffering 90% losses as well as losing the sky bison doesn't leave you a lot of room to recover if you're one of the few remaining airbenders. When nomads lose the lands they are dependent on, nomads cease to be a factor rather rapidly. When the animals they use to travel are dead they aren't globe-spanning.

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This is exactly the type of skin-deep worldbuilding I was talking about.

90% losses you claim. HOW. Armies do not magically teleport and at the start of the war the Fire Nation did not even have tank, trucks or any form of mechanised transport overland. The nomads would have seen those armies coming days if not weeks in advance. On the day they they would have had long hours watching those armies climb the mountains towards them. And these are pacifist monks, they are not going to stick around and fight. They are going to hop on their bison and fly away. We see that the temples are, structurally, pretty much undamaged. The Fire Nation did not mass up and blast them off the map with fantasy nukes in an instant, they went in and tried to clear them room-by-room. Aside from some few monks who went to talk to them and a few too stubborn to leave they shouldn't have gotten anybody.

Losing the sky bison you claim. Again HOW. The bison that live with the nomads are just as capable of flying away as the nomads. Even assuming there were no wild bison they still aren't going to suffer more than proportional losses, which as discussed above would be tiny.

Lose the land they rely on you claim. What land? How do they rely on it? The temples are on top of mountains. They have a handful of fruit trees, insufficient to support any significant number of monks let alone herds of flying bigger-than-elephant ruminants. We see Appa happily eating hay bales, cabbages and watermelons. The Gaang certainly never had any problem feeding him on their globe trotting adventure. Having to ditch the temples would cost the monks their written records and their artwork, but a people of spiritual monks detached from worldly things isn't going to care all that much about it.

Canon says 'The Fire Nation Destroyed The Air Nomads' without giving a thought to how they could actually have done that, even with ungodly fire power.

Angelform said:

This is exactly the type of skin-deep worldbuilding I was talking about.

90% losses you claim. HOW. Armies do not magically teleport and at the start of the war the Fire Nation did not even have tank, trucks or any form of mechanised transport overland. The nomads would have seen those armies coming days if not weeks in advance. On the day they they would have had long hours watching those armies climb the mountains towards them. And these are pacifist monks, they are not going to stick around and fight. They are going to hop on their bison and fly away. We see that the temples are, structurally, pretty much undamaged. The Fire Nation did not mass up and blast them off the map with fantasy nukes in an instant, they went in and tried to clear them room-by-room. Aside from some few monks who went to talk to them and a few too stubborn to leave they shouldn't have gotten anybody.

Losing the sky bison you claim. Again HOW. The bison that live with the nomads are just as capable of flying away as the nomads. Even assuming there were no wild bison they still aren't going to suffer more than proportional losses, which as discussed above would be tiny.

Lose the land they rely on you claim. What land? How do they rely on it? The temples are on top of mountains. They have a handful of fruit trees, insufficient to support any significant number of monks let alone herds of flying bigger-than-elephant ruminants. We see Appa happily eating hay bales, cabbages and watermelons. The Gaang certainly never had any problem feeding him on their globe trotting adventure. Having to ditch the temples would cost the monks their written records and their artwork, but a people of spiritual monks detached from worldly things isn't going to care all that much about it.

Canon says 'The Fire Nation Destroyed The Air Nomads' without giving a thought to how they could actually have done that, even with ungodly fire power.

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And that's a problem... how exactly? It's a story, not a historical record. It conveys the depths of the atrocities that the Fire nation commits extremely well, it makes Aang's survival more important and auspicious, it provides a tragic backdrop to his own character, when he realizes that he is alone, that none of his friends, family, or mentors survived the genocide of the Fire Nation.

It tells a compelling story, and as long as it seems fairly plausible to most people, the logical "holes" don't matter. I think the Last Airbender having as much success as it did as a story says enough about this whole situation.

Angelform said:

This is exactly the type of skin-deep worldbuilding I was talking about.

90% losses you claim. HOW. Armies do not magically teleport and at the start of the war the Fire Nation did not even have tank, trucks or any form of mechanised transport overland. The nomads would have seen those armies coming days if not weeks in advance. On the day they they would have had long hours watching those armies climb the mountains towards them. And these are pacifist monks, they are not going to stick around and fight. They are going to hop on their bison and fly away. We see that the temples are, structurally, pretty much undamaged. The Fire Nation did not mass up and blast them off the map with fantasy nukes in an instant, they went in and tried to clear them room-by-room. Aside from some few monks who went to talk to them and a few too stubborn to leave they shouldn't have gotten anybody.

Losing the sky bison you claim. Again HOW. The bison that live with the nomads are just as capable of flying away as the nomads. Even assuming there were no wild bison they still aren't going to suffer more than proportional losses, which as discussed above would be tiny.

Lose the land they rely on you claim. What land? How do they rely on it? The temples are on top of mountains. They have a handful of fruit trees, insufficient to support any significant number of monks let alone herds of flying bigger-than-elephant ruminants. We see Appa happily eating hay bales, cabbages and watermelons. The Gaang certainly never had any problem feeding him on their globe trotting adventure. Having to ditch the temples would cost the monks their written records and their artwork, but a people of spiritual monks detached from worldly things isn't going to care all that much about it.

Canon says 'The Fire Nation Destroyed The Air Nomads' without giving a thought to how they could actually have done that, even with ungodly fire power.

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They did it. That's the incontrovertable fact. They stormed a nation of pacifists with swords in hand and they slew them. I don't see what you find so hard to believe about this. You're focused way too much on the 'air nomads' name when they are in fact, pretty clearly not actually that nomadic. Sky bison are megafauna, and those are really easy to kill off if you launch a determined hunting and extermination campaign. Appa's shed fur was sufficient to track him despite long flights away from pursuers.

If 'skin deep worldbuilding' bothers you that much, just leave.

01paradox01 said:

snip

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Posts do not make sense in isolation. I pointed out that the worldbuilding is thin. This is neither good nor bad, it just is and we should be aware of that. Vehrec then replied trying to argue that one of the examples I gave isn't thin, that it does make consistent sense when thought about. The post you replied to is me disputing their argument.

Vehrec said:

If 'skin deep worldbuilding' bothers you that much, just leave.

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If people having opinions different from your offends you so much why are you on a discussion forum?

Guys, we can acknowledge there are various plot holes to various aspects in ATLA.

The QM will likely address them if they become relevant to the quest.

[X] a beautiful young woman, clad in the disconcertingly foreign garb so favored by the socialites and debutantes of the Colonies, though such was not a surprise given the fact that she stood foremost among them. While holding no official title, she was a sufficiently Popular Debutante to have attracted attention even within the home isles, an unusual feat for one so disadvantaged by the nature of their lineage. That alone was not sufficient to warrant her for this position, however; the fact that she'd carried modernist politics to the colonies was far more relevant to their reasons for meeting here tonight. The salons, reading groups, and rallies that she'd played a role in were… numerous, to say the least, and extended to those within the Fire Nation proper, where she was apparently seen as a prime exemplar of their goals. [Eloquent, Passionate, Popular Debutante, Modernist Inclination, Mid 30s]

We need some sort of a power base, without it we're going to get removed as soon as we're inconvenient to the rest of the power-structure. I can't accept the spy because of that, even if Earth Kingdom contacts could be useful in the detente and peace negotiations. Of course, covert contacts also probably aren't the most useful at a peace conference table, but it would be useful in getting information to give us a leg up at said table. Still, too big a draw back for me. Of the other options, the Militarist I think has too great a risk of rubbing up against the new Fire Lord and his good friend the walking WMD the wrong way. Professional Earth-Kingdom Peasant Face Smasher is gonna be something of a black stain with them. Mercantilism Scholar is interesting, but I find the socialite far more so. A wider-spread but more diffuse power base to support us and spread Zuko's propoganda truth will be very useful I feel, and I like the idea of seeing where these Modernist politics will take us in a post-war world.

[X] bending revitalization, a movement across both the home isles and the colonies that sought to maintain and restore the knowledge of the traditional forms of fire bending, both those of a ritual and cultural nature. Fire dancing, calligraphy, and sky shows were all major features of the movement's efforts, all of which are arts that were significantly deemphasized in the national academies which have since begun to focus primarily on the combat applications of firebending. This is respected among the traditionalists, though lacks broader appeal outside of those who yearn for the largely lost arts of the Fire Nation's past.

Honestly any of the options are good ones, I'm just going with this because I think it'll make for some interesting scenes and a good way to bond with the new boss. He is one of the only people to have performed a dragon dance after all, he's well primed to lead a return to more traditional bending arts. Besides which, giving our people an outlet to practice their bending which isn't violent combat will probably be healthy for them.

Yeah, I mean obviously I don't think there are 'trap' options that would just be unworkable or unfun. These are pre made by Granite. It's just a difference in what kind of trouble our character will have.

One of the reason I like the Popular Debutante is that it allows us to play a character that has a certain amount of flamboyance. A certain joy in her politicking. Zuko I think will bring plenty of 'grim and dour determination' to the procedings, and what we will have to deal with will often be grim, so I like the idea of a protagonist who looks at the job of defashing the Fire Kingdom and goes at it with panache!

ooh, and a thought regarding the Bending Revitalization. One of the attacks that is going to be used against us is that we are not a 'real' Fire Nation woman, because of the Colonial blood. That arrow might be blunted if we support and even perform some of the moves that were old in the Fire Nation when Sozin was young. 'You say I am a disgrace to the History of the Fire Nation, good sir? Do you even KNOW the history of the Fire Nation beyond the last three generations? Have you used the noble art of Fire Bending as anything but a brutish cudgel? You speak of Ancestors weeping for me holding this position, but you neglect every tradition they have, and Reduce our ancestry to simple bloodlines like we are prize horses."

Shogeton said:

One of the reason I like the Popular Debutante is that it allows us to play a character that has a certain amount of flamboyance. A certain joy in her politicking. Zuko I think will bring plenty of 'grim and dour determination' to the procedings, and what we will have to deal with will often be grim, so I like the idea of a protagonist who looks at the job of defashing the Fire Kingdom and goes at it with panache!

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Defascifying the Fire Nation is not a thing one ought to expect from the Modernists—among the reactionary Traditionalists, the liberal Mercantilists, the technocratic Militarists, and the folkish Supremacists, the Modernists are the most classically fascist faction, with their civic nationalism, futurist ethos, integralist economics, and reliance on popular mobilization to both grow their strength and mobilize their influence.

Zimmerwald1915 said:

Defascifying the Fire Nation is not a thing one ought to expect from the Modernists—among the reactionary Traditionalists, the liberal Mercantilists, and the technocratic Militarists, the Modernists are the most classically fascist faction, with their folkish nationalism, futurist ethos, integralist economics, and reliance on popular mobilization to both grow their strength and mobilize their influence.

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I suppose reading through their description, they might definitely go that way. All the better that we have some clout there, to lead their ambitions perhaps in a more egalitarian, better direction. Obviously, there's a lot of garbage in their ethos. But quite frankly, we're working in the garbage heap.

[X] bending revitalization, a movement across both the home isles and the colonies that sought to maintain and restore the knowledge of the traditional forms of fire bending, both those of a ritual and cultural nature. Fire dancing, calligraphy, and sky shows were all major features of the movement's efforts, all of which are arts that were significantly deemphasized in the national academies which have since begun to focus primarily on the combat applications of firebending. This is respected among the traditionalists, though lacks broader appeal outside of those who yearn for the largely lost arts of the Fire Nation's past.

[x] a subdued and almost strangely normal woman; a part of him was surprised that the guards managed to pick her out at all, though he supposed that the Ministry of Domestic Harmony was well incentivized to keep tabs on individuals such as her. After all, she was a Sanctioned Broker, a more polite term for a spy, and one of the few people that the Fire Nation retained to handle under-the-table talks with the Earth Kingdom, a fraught endeavor given the hostility that exists between the two powers. Still, given the Fire Lord's evident intentions of making peace with the Earth Kingdom, it might prove advantageous to have someone familiar with them to arrange it… and her lack of allies in court would make it relatively easy to see her removed when the time came. [Likeable, Subtle, Sanctioned Broker, Earth Kingdom Contacts, Late 30s]
[x] Family Code Reform
[x] Public Benefit Reform

I had a question Granite, Your quest on Fallout New Vegas in Space Battles had actual people play opposition forces/factions. Can we expect the same here? Like actual people playing as very influential characters in game, for example Zuko or the local business plot leader?

Angelform said:

If people having opinions different from your offends you so much why are you on a discussion forum?

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I'm just saying that if you don't like the basic premise of the setting and are offended by it...why are you then engaging with a quest thread set in that world? You don't like the foundations of this setting, it's bones and blood. So why get mad?

Medicus said:

I had a question Granite, Your quest on Fallout New Vegas in Space Battles had actual people play opposition forces/factions. Can we expect the same here? Like actual people playing as very influential characters in game, for example Zuko or the local business plot leader?

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Excellent question! I don't intend to do anything like that here: this is planned to be more of a narrative quest overall. I'll generally aim to signpost stuff like that going in

[X] family code reform, where she's taken the controversial position of arguing for the reform of the family code set out by Sozin a century ago. The family code lays down standardized national laws around marriage, divorce, abuse, adoption, and inheritance. The code notably restricts divorce, mandates single-child inheritance, restricts domestic abuse, and bans homosexuality. While it has since come to be lauded by some as a defense of the family, there is a quiet movement for its form; supporting such openly would be controversial, but has the potential to be a somewhat popular move should it succeed.

Voting in support of homosexuality.

Granite said:

Excellent question! I don't intend to do anything like that here: this is planned to be more of a narrative quest overall. I'll generally aim to signpost stuff like that going in

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By the way, will there still be updates to the Fallout quest or is it frozen?