Vox Vitae: Warhammer AI quest
- Thread starter Neablis
- Start date
- Mature Sci-Fi
I think that with the existence of the killsats our general trajectory has to change. Before we only had to plan around the nuke barrages and the ground response when the nukes failed. That was generally an easy proposition, just put a void shield and enough anti air around our manufacturing areas and the big cities to protect the civilians. That and enough ground units in defensive positions would have been enough to win, getting the mechanicus to split was a 'nice to have' not a 'must happen', and it honestly still is. We could have conceivably done all of that on our own in reasonable time frame but the killsats and orbital habitat mechanicus enclaves makes that infeasible, we will need the help.
What needs to happen:
- The nuke barrages still need to be nullified, both the ones targeting us and the ones that target the locals as the mechanicus' fist assumption will likely be that our setup is an attempt by the locals to industrialize. To stop this both our sites and the major cities of each local polity need anti air and void shield emplacements.
- The ground attacks can likely be mostly handled by the local governments IF we arm them with enough war materials (guns, communication, tanks, etc) and perhaps some of our own bots for our own area. However the latter means that the mechanicus will learn about our nature as an AI if we use them openly.
- The killsats. These are a major problem. The only reason they would exist is to deny the planet if it is lost beyond recovery. It is possible that due to the presence of a Magos that was part of an Inquisitor's retinue that they contain Exterminatus munitions, however it is more likely that they have a more conventional weapons system, probably some kind of lance bombardment system. To deal with these we have three options: subvert them with the currently unresearched gentle subversion (something that would likely be an action sink); send stealth strike craft into orbit to attack them when things go hot (likely to be spotted if we have them waiting for a while) and using hidden anti-orbital lance emplacements to knock them out (takes BP).
- The space enclave. Might have interstellar transport and/or communication capacity. Need to investigate more for more information.
What needs to happen:
- The nuke barrages still need to be nullified, both the ones targeting us and the ones that target the locals as the mechanicus' fist assumption will likely be that our setup is an attempt by the locals to industrialize. To stop this both our sites and the major cities of each local polity need anti air and void shield emplacements.
- The ground attacks can likely be mostly handled by the local governments IF we arm them with enough war materials (guns, communication, tanks, etc) and perhaps some of our own bots for our own area. However the latter means that the mechanicus will learn about our nature as an AI if we use them openly.
- The killsats. These are a major problem. The only reason they would exist is to deny the planet if it is lost beyond recovery. It is possible that due to the presence of a Magos that was part of an Inquisitor's retinue that they contain Exterminatus munitions, however it is more likely that they have a more conventional weapons system, probably some kind of lance bombardment system. To deal with these we have three options: subvert them with the currently unresearched gentle subversion (something that would likely be an action sink); send stealth strike craft into orbit to attack them when things go hot (likely to be spotted if we have them waiting for a while) and using hidden anti-orbital lance emplacements to knock them out (takes BP).
- The space enclave. Might have interstellar transport and/or communication capacity. Need to investigate more for more information.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
We don't know! Just that it's probably not as simple as Rods from God
If it's not a bomb/torpedo/missile it's most likely a lance weapon to glass the surface.
- Location
- florida
...is there some horrid nightmare beast trapped under the surface of the planet?
It doesn't really make sense that they would build that array. Or be allowed to maintain it on the imperiums dime without some kind of clear benefit or need.
Why go to all the trouble. And the sheer redundancy. When one or two WMDs would serve the same purpose quite easily...
It doesn't really make sense that they would build that array. Or be allowed to maintain it on the imperiums dime without some kind of clear benefit or need.
Why go to all the trouble. And the sheer redundancy. When one or two WMDs would serve the same purpose quite easily...
Trying to put shields and AA guns everywhere is just a really infeasible thing to do. Not only would the Mechanicus definitely figure that out quick, but we don't have the industrial capacity to do it ourselves unless we get every other polity to pitch in with their industry (and again, fat chance we'd keep such a major planet-wide construction project secret). At that point, we're better off with just hacking the damn things or starting a schism.
And once more, I advocate for getting Heavy Infantry Bots and Assault Shuttles so if we do decide to attack the Enclaves, like during a schism, we stand good odds of winning.
[X] Plan: Killsats means Vita will not be going to space today T_T
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- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
How committed are we to this planet? What is our long-term plan right now?
We've got to get a shipyard and a new home ship built out as the short term, but to actually be safe against the local threats chosen we are going to need fleets and armies, and that means we can either plan around the planet forming the core of our new faction or we can try and leave then alone as much as possible while building automation in space.
This is going to determine whether we need to actually neuter the mechanicus on the planet or just get beyond their reach. Same with the monestaries, but I would LOVE to have psychic troopers as an answer to space Marines.
We've got to get a shipyard and a new home ship built out as the short term, but to actually be safe against the local threats chosen we are going to need fleets and armies, and that means we can either plan around the planet forming the core of our new faction or we can try and leave then alone as much as possible while building automation in space.
This is going to determine whether we need to actually neuter the mechanicus on the planet or just get beyond their reach. Same with the monestaries, but I would LOVE to have psychic troopers as an answer to space Marines.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
We ideally want a friendly port of call for when we start exploring the sector, because that'll limit how much we need to carry our own industry with us until we can build a flagship worthy of it. We'd pretty much need a Battleship scale vessel in order to have enough facilities to maintain everything without a major compromise elsewhere--our initial explorations I think are likely to be in a Heavy Cruiser--Grand Cruiser at the very most.
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Though if we are to build a flag ship do you think we should have some defenses in our ships against boarders, and from daemon being summoned from the warp to try to board our personal ships to try to corrupt our AI?
meianmaru
The Devourer of Fiction
Hmmm. This has me convinced that hacking is more urgent to get, because we likely shouldn't try to get everything perfect. If we can afford only one branch of the hacking/jamming tree, hacking is the one we should probably take as far as we can. Changing my initial plan-draft to fit this in my new plan, jamming replaced by faster hacking.
[X] Plan: We Make Manufactories To Make Manufactories
-[X] [Free] Poke around some more in the databases, looking for anything in particular.
--[X] You are morbidly curious about what has happened to the Eldar. By the time humanity had reached beyond Sol the first time, the Eldar Dominion was already the unshakable titan amongst the stars. Had been, according to what they told, for millions of years. And was so still by the time of your accident. What happened to them? Wait, what is this mention about "the Dark Eldar" in your self-censored notes about the sealed Mechanicus files linked to --MAJOR_COGNITOHAZARD_WARP_ENTITY_4--? You had quickly skimmed over the part as not urgently relevant at the time. Sigh. You can already feel your shielding starting to fray a bit again just when thinking about it. Literally. (Learn what you can about the current state of the Eldar, and also sacrifice a (hopefully) small amount of psychic shielding to learn about the Dark Eldar and their link to Slaanesh.)
-[X] Diplomacy (Admech):
--[X] Time to construct yet another false report, yay. Thank the stars for your diplomacy and reality-simulation modules. Without those, you would be worried about the report potentially showing inconsistencies. Give just enough to satisfy Thalya, but not to raise her hopes further. Also, continue subverting those interested in your puzzles and lessons, and see if you can maybe widen the net.
-[X] Construction (1100 BP)
--[X] Construction slot, 1st
---[X] 10x Manufactories (100 BP, 50 CP)
---[X] Shield Repair (50 BP)
---[X] Trade Goods, Aevon (50 BP) (stored 20 -> 70)
-[X] Research x2 (400 RP + 10 Anexa RP)
--[X] Research slot, 1st
---[X] Blueprint: 100 RP - Medium Void-shield installation (1000 BP, 50 CP)
---[X] Small-craft Stealth (100 RP)
--[X] Research slot, 2nd
---[X] Faster Hacking (150 RP)
---[X] Brain Implants (40 + 10 Anexa RP)
---[X] Blueprint: 10/15 RP - Anti-personnel Bunker (20 BP, 2 CP)
-[X] Pay rent (Trade Goods, Aevon 70 -> 55)
-[X] Anexa active Action: Research (Brain Implants) - assists a research action you take, granting +5xLevel RP to the action. Will level on successful roll, scaled by the importance of the tech.
--[X] [Free] Write-in: Warn Anexa that you just found that the Mechanicus and the Imperium were right about there being a "corruption" that you both will have to be careful about. Because it is a literal warp-based cognitohazard, particularly dangerous to the AI, but even resistant beings with "souls" like humans and machine spirits can be corrupted. Your shielding took a hit even with all the precautions you set in place, though fortunately it caused only minor fraying and nothing got through, it seems. Tell her that you are hoping to miniaturize your shielding fit for human sizes at some point, thought this is currently far off in the future. Especially important if she is interested in the topic, even in how to combat it. Because you had to seal the information regarding this topic into a memory vault. Just to stop your shield from continuously fraying from stray thoughts regarding it. Meaning that even during this conversation, you don't know more than the surface details for the very rough warning signs. You ask Anexa to promise to tell you if you or your tech starts to act weirdly, because it might save both of you if it comes to it.
[X] Plan: We Make Manufactories To Make Manufactories
JayTar
Idea briefcase
Honestly these two things make me think all the effort going into researching, designing and making anti-air/anti-orbit defenses is kinda wasted?
We could of this very turn get faster hacking, and then hack the satellites/nukes. Sure if we royally screw up they would know what we tried to do, but even in that scenario they still wouldn't know who we are, or where we are. And in exchange we would have very good odds of just outright erasing the biggest threat in the space of two actions.
So sure it's a tiny bit riskier, but considering how much collateral damage there would be in any scenario that actually requires void shields I can't imagine any of us want it as more then a plan C or D.
In light of that, can't we skip a bunch of the war-preparations entirely? Like, sure I know we need to prepare for worst case scenarios, but "outright shooting war with the Mechanics's orbital assets" should be quire unlikely if we don't initiate it ourselves. And if we spent even half the effort we spend on preparing for that worst case scenario on actually preventing it instead, it would be that much less likely.
Won't there be the inherited risk of the machinus personnel that are operating or checking on the kill stats on the ground also try to trace the hacking attempt back to the location where our AI is right now?
meianmaru
The Devourer of Fiction
On the other hand, as Neablis pointed out:
Which I feel is pretty damn important. Also, she hasn't shown any interest in leaving the confines of the crashed ship. So while in this case, we will need to research miniaturization if we want to move her to the new ship, we also won't be giving the Chaos a way to use her feelings later on against her.
Oh, and the Eldar stuff, its very good to know about the Dark Eldar so if you do run into them unexpectedly, you won't have the Tau-experience.
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
Hmmm. I agree with Alectai's free research choice more than meianmaru's since inviting yet another power bloc into this mess is more likely to delay resolution than speed it up, and "why the fuck are these killsats here" is very much a question we need answered.
But also I agree with telling the bean that corruption is real, given the QM confirmation that it was workable as opposed to "this will uncontrollably drain your shields" or something like that. It also stands to reason that if we're able to think about what we've left outside the sandbox without stressing the shield, Anexa should be able to as well. Crit success and all that.
But is that good enough for her to be able to go yoink samples and show up in person for mechanicus subversion operations without being at heightened chaos risk? I'm not sure. Feel free to answer that if it's not too ooc, neablis.
[X] Plan: Killsats means Vita will not be going to space today T_T
My vote for now.
But also I agree with telling the bean that corruption is real, given the QM confirmation that it was workable as opposed to "this will uncontrollably drain your shields" or something like that. It also stands to reason that if we're able to think about what we've left outside the sandbox without stressing the shield, Anexa should be able to as well. Crit success and all that.
But is that good enough for her to be able to go yoink samples and show up in person for mechanicus subversion operations without being at heightened chaos risk? I'm not sure. Feel free to answer that if it's not too ooc, neablis.
[X] Plan: Killsats means Vita will not be going to space today T_T
My vote for now.
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[X] Plan: We Make Manufactories To Make Manufactories
Normal people do know about chaos and still resist corruption. One would argue that it's more common than the other way around. Anexa won't turn into a raving cultist the moment she leaves the protection of the chaos shield.
My quote isn't direct endorsement - it's a choice, with both upsides and downsides.
meianmaru
The Devourer of Fiction
EDIT: Oh, for some reason I thought you were quoting the topic of jammers and hacking. Nvm. I must have been still half-asleep at the point I replied to the post.
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I would argue most normal people do not, for all they talk about 'heretics' all the time that is not the same thing we the fandom call 'Heretic', they just think of any sort of dissidence in those terms, political or religious. That guy who didn't like the taste of his corpse starch ration, heretic, the underhive gangs just existing, heretic, the guy with tentacles growing out of his face who is going on about gods in the warp, also heretic. The Imperium has 'solved' the problem of how to get their population to violently reject something they don't understand by getting most of them to violently reject everything they don't understand.
If you were to ask the average member of the Imperial Faith what the Heretics during the Horus Heresy worshiped they would probably say 'Horus' because worshiping your leader makes sense to them and Horus was a would be usurper.
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[X] Plan: We Make Manufactories To Make Manufactories
I like the idea of telling anexa abour Caos, se shouod try to avoid the "I will tell you later" screw up. And exponential grow is definitely needed.
I like the idea of telling anexa abour Caos, se shouod try to avoid the "I will tell you later" screw up. And exponential grow is definitely needed.
[X]Plan There is a sock on the knob of the Lab doors
-[X]Construction x 1
--[X]Trade goods(1100 BP)
-[X]Research x 3
--[X] The workings of a Void Abacus (200 RP)
--[X] The Basics of Psytech (200 RP)
--[X] Secrets of the Machine Spirits (200 RP)
-[X] Anexa passive action: Education - Roll to level, difficulty is DC20 (10+5Xlevel)
-[X]Construction x 1
--[X]Trade goods(1100 BP)
-[X]Research x 3
--[X] The workings of a Void Abacus (200 RP)
--[X] The Basics of Psytech (200 RP)
--[X] Secrets of the Machine Spirits (200 RP)
-[X] Anexa passive action: Education - Roll to level, difficulty is DC20 (10+5Xlevel)