[X] One Thousand Space Marines of the Imperial Heralds.
- [X] Immunity - everything but Lorgar (16 points)
- [X] True Faith (7 points)
- [X] Sorcery (5 points)
- [X] Iron Will (3 points)
- [X] Mana Storage (? points, assumed 5)
- [X] Flow of Ki (3 points)
- [X] Force of Spirit (2 points)
- [X] Strength of Psyche (2 points)
- [X] If Mana Storage is 4 points, Concentration, if Mana Storage is 3 points, Code of Honour, if Mana Storage is 2 points, both.
 
As additional justification for why I'm picking sorcery, we've been told that no one else on our tribe is willing to take the risk of learning, because Sorcery is dangerous.

This is probably the best chance we'll have to get a large body of assistant sorcerers. Sorcery rituals in Warhammer can scale up a lot, with lots of supporting sorcerers. This should hopefully open up the space for producing strategic scale sorcerous workings.

This, for example, might be very helpful with our plan to defeat the Shard of Winter and restore the planet. For example, if we can that route a binding ritual by Fan supported by a thousand assistants might be able to lock down the Hecatoncheires and make them much easier to kill.

Hopefully, being Lorgar derived space marines who have True Faith and Iron Will, sorcery is less dangerous for them than it would be for regular people, but they're also going to be the kind of people who were willing to take that risk, that's part of the narrative they will have.

If we win here, and the World Soul is resurrected, the option to become shaman will open up. Long term, a thousand sorcerer-shaman are a huge force multiplier. We're unlikely to get this chance again.

Being able to give them all the prerequisite merits for enlightened essence is also a big deal. Usually it would take many, many years to get people to the point where they'd have them all.

With this, by contrast, they just need the psyker mutation and they'll immediately qualify to be enlightened. That means that in relatively short order we can have a thousand enlightened psykers able to spend essence to safely use their powers. At that point developing terrestrial martial arts becomes worth it, and then we'll have a thousand supernatural martial artist psykers. That's a big deal.
 
Votes will remain open for a while. I have a lot of work so leaving things open for people to change votes if required.
Lorgar and Dharok, for example; would be rolling twenty two dice to activate psyker powers.

Are we using that roll here? It makes them amazing psykers (in M20 psychics with True Faith are very strong.
I read that as any Willpower roll using True Faith, like Counter Magic etc. Even otherwise, it would default to 10 dice + 5 Sux. But in this system, I was rolling Raw willpower as it breaks the system otherwise.

I will need to reconsider this.
True Faith is a 7 point merit.
Sorcerous initiation is a 5 point merit.
Normally, I would not allow this but in this case? I will as they are near the Godstorm and Faith is Lorgar's thing and Sorcery is yours. That said, They will get Exalted Sorcery not the normal one as they are "born" from your soul.

With regards to Awakened Essence, I will be rolling for it. This is spoiler, but given the above, you guys would figure it out, especially since they have the prequisits. In all honesty? Expect them to have it as I HIGHLY doubt they will fail the roll.
 
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If we can build better relation with Settra, it might be worth a shot.

We can't, I'm pretty sure. We've offended his pride, and that's a big deal that he won't back down on whatever we do, I think.

And this is a unique opportunity for us. Making other people who can use Exalted rather than regular sorcery is absolutely amazingly good.

The fact that they can get Solar Hero makes this an opportunity that's too good to miss out on.

The fact that this is normally not possible makes it really important.
 
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We have three challenges to face here;

1) defeat the two Hecatoncheires. Settra and his existing forces are enough to do that.

2) Thalassa dreams the Terraforming machines into existence - the space marine chapter can accompany her to deal with any mass combat and guard her.

3) Lorgar uses True Faith to resurrect the WorldSoul.

Number 3 is explicitly incredibly difficult. Fan doubted it was possible. We know that people can pool True Faith. Dharok did it with Lorgar when trying to redeem Kairos. We really want him to have as much help as it's possible to get, and a thousand of his sons with True Faith are the best way I can think of doing it.

Appeasing Settra is well down the list of priorities. We need to win first. That's more important.

REALLY sorry for this, but Solar Hero is a CMA and Dharok is the only one who has it. I meant Golden Janishary but you have not yet unlocked it.

Once again sorry.

No problem. Still a huge advantage in the long run.
 
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Other reasons to get the space marines, beyond being able to accompany Thalassa, support Lorgar resurrecting the World Soul, etc:

Unlike Settra and his army, they're potential targets for VEE. We don't have a huge amount of time to regenerate the Essenxe, but we may be able to select some leaders.

Why does this matter? We can do things like grant them Sorcery paths so they can divide into circles capable of independently casting rituals around each leader. They're using the superior Exalted sorcery, so this could be enormously effective.

We might, instead, be able to grant the company leaders several more dots of True Faith, so they can perform miracles supported by their companies.

Also, depending on how much the psyker mutation costs, given we have 30 XP to play with, we could make some of them psykers and grant them dots in disciplines that they can share with the main circle thanks to Lorgar's synergy power. Psychic invisibility could be very useful, for example.

Or we could grant other things that would be valuable.
 
The 27 BP is with VEE.

But even otherwise, they are more echos at this point so a personal Wish would not be possible beyond the basics.
 
I fear we're going to miss out on a unique opportunity here.

We're also likely to strengthen an enemy. Settra has promised to come back and kill us. I think he's literally incapable of changing his mind. Him having a stronger army isn't a good thing for us in the long run. We want him to be able to defeat the Shard, but no more.

The 27 BP is with VEE.

But even otherwise, they are more echos at this point so a personal Wish would not be possible beyond the basics.

Presumably that would require turn actions and spend days on the problem.
 
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[X] One Thousand Space Marines of the Imperial Heralds.
- [X] True Faith (7 points)
- [X] Sorcery (5 points)
- [X] Iron Will (3 points)
- [X] Mana Storage (? points, assumed 5)
- [X] Flow of Ki (3 points)
- [X] Force of Spirit (2 points)
- [X] Strength of Psyche (2 points)
- [X] If Mana Storage is 4 points, Concentration, if Mana Storage is 3 points, Code of Honour, if Mana Storage is 2 points, both.
 
[X] One Thousand Space Marines of the Imperial Heralds.
- [X] True Faith (7 points)
- [X] Sorcery (5 points)
- [X] Iron Will (3 points)
- [X] Mana Storage (? points, assumed 5)
- [X] Flow of Ki (3 points)
- [X] Force of Spirit (2 points)
- [X] Strength of Psyche (2 points)
- [X] If Mana Storage is 4 points, Concentration, if Mana Storage is 3 points, Code of Honour, if Mana Storage is 2 points, both.

I would like loyal troops that would stay after this event
 
Another factor we should consider is Lorgar's Mythos development.

If we create a chapter of Lorgar's marines here, then he'll be a leader of space marines while his Mythos is still fluid means that he'll develop alongside them, in a way most Primarchs don't have the chance to.

That's on top of the practical advantages I've mentioned before:

  • Settra has refused to split his forces. If we make Space Marines they're our forces, so we can send them with Thalassa so we don't get screwed in mass combat if the Shard has sent a load of fodder to occupy the site of the terraforming engines. If we fix Ankhaten, we can't. This is important because of how Mass Combat works - if you're massively outnumbered you get ground down no matter how individually powerful you are.
  • At present, the riskiest step in our plan is Lorgar resurrecting the WorldSoul with his True Faith. We know True Faith can be pooled. I think Lorgar is much more likely to succeed if he's backed by a chapter of his sons with True Faith of their own. This is a big deal. We could well defeat Settra and then Lorgar fails his True Faith roll to revive the planet and then we're screwed.
  • One extra heroic construct is unlikely to make the difference between victory and defeat against the Shard of Winter, given that having the space marines means we can take the risk of splitting outright circle and; say; sending Dharok with Settra rather than all of us having to go with Thalassa.
  • Getting a thousand sorcerers is a massive deal. Getting a thousand sorcerers initiated into Exalted rather than regular sorcery is a huge deal. As Fan can use assistants to boost his sorcery, this is directly useful for our fight against the Shard of Winter. The marines may be less good at fighting than Ankhaten. However, by acting as a force multiplier for Fan, they may be able to add a lot of value on the battlefield.
  • Long term, Settra is our enemy. He's promised to come back and kill us. That's a problem. By repairing Ankhaten we're strengthening the armies we're likely to have to face in the future.
  • When Settra come back for a second round, we can destructively reverse engineer his constructs, so we're likely to learn how they're made then.
  • Adding Ankhaten on top of Settra's existing forces makes a marginal difference to the strength of his forces, as he already has three heroic giant constructs, a unit of regular constructs, and tens of thousands of skeletal infantry. Adding a thousand space marines makes a massive difference to the strength of our personal forces.
  • As a social primary, mental secondary Primarch, Lorgar should be an amazing general. However, he currently lacks an army. This gives him one. Lorgar's Precognition and Telepathy multiply this factor, as he can coordinate an army amazingly well. If we make him an army, he can command it, and Settra would never permit him to command Settra's army.
  • We can set our space marines up to be enlightened next turn. Then we can have Dharok invent Golden Janissary style and we'll have a chapter of supernatural martial artists.
  • The Shard of Winter isn't the last enemy we're going to face. Chaos is unlikely to let us just take over Colchis. Having a Chapter of super-space marines is likely to make future turns much easier if we win.

Overall, the space marine chapter is likely to be more useful with our immediate challenge of saving the planet from becoming undead and then saving it from Chaos.
 
[X] One Thousand Space Marines of the Imperial Heralds.
- [X] True Faith (7 points)
- [X] Sorcery (5 points)
- [X] Iron Will (3 points)
- [X] Mana Storage (? points, assumed 5)
- [X] Flow of Ki (3 points)
- [X] Force of Spirit (2 points)
- [X] Strength of Psyche (2 points)
- [X] If Mana Storage is 4 points, Concentration, if Mana Storage is 3 points, Code of Honour, if Mana Storage is 2 points, both.
 
[x] Alratan
If we can build better relation with Settra, it might be worth a shot.
Not sure why we'd want to. He's a major asshole with a thirst for conquest, managing him to keep him from genociding one group or another because they accidentally slighted his pride is likely to be a full time job.

At least the Emperor is capable of swallowing his pride temporarily in the name of pragmatism. Settra is all of big E's worst traits with even fewer redeeming qualities.
 
[X] One Thousand Space Marines of the Imperial Heralds.
- [X] True Faith (7 points)
- [X] Sorcery (5 points)
- [X] Iron Will (3 points)
- [X] Mana Storage (? points, assumed 5)
- [X] Flow of Ki (3 points)
- [X] Force of Spirit (2 points)
- [X] Strength of Psyche (2 points)
- [X] If Mana Storage is 4 points, Concentration, if Mana Storage is 3 points, Code of Honour, if Mana Storage is 2 points, both.
 
So I was thinking on what to give as rewards for omakes in a way that don't mess up experience progression of characters. Here are a few ideas for rewards that I have come up with. The Omake Writer can choose which they want subject to GM approval.
i forgot omakes existed . . .
i have no time to write these (& a shit writer), so I'm just gonna throw out ideas for others if they want to write something
  • Settra POV, either
    • a current POV
    • a what-if future when he goes back to AoS with some WH40k shit
  • a POV of one of the Wyld-Shaped marines if that vote wins
  • Corvus Corrax POV, either
    • 40k version after the dream quest
    • 30k child with a foggy fading dream (how a demi-god with perfect memory forgot something and is experiencing deja vu ¯\_(ツ)_/¯)
  • spirits POV, i don't even know what their doing, fighting daemons?
  • Archmagos POV, what's our toaster boi ally doing with the shared knowledge?
  • Lorgar (1st person) POV at any time, whats he thinking about?
  • Thalassa (1st person) POV, very standard Ad Mech stuff so far, lets get some backstory
    • one of the tech priest follower POVs of Thalassa (i forgot they existed)
  • CHAOS! POV
    • tzeentch malding over the lost of kairos (he got true death-ed right?)
      • the 9x9 lords of change scribes that followed around recording his words POV (did they die to Winter? did some live to report to big bird-mollusk boss?)
    • the other 3, what are they doing after tzeentch lost a powerful piece in the great game?
 
[X] One Thousand Space Marines of the Imperial Heralds.
- [X] True Faith (7 points)
- [X] Sorcery (5 points)
- [X] Iron Will (3 points)
- [X] Mana Storage (? points, assumed 5)
- [X] Flow of Ki (3 points)
- [X] Force of Spirit (2 points)
- [X] Strength of Psyche (2 points)
- [X] If Mana Storage is 4 points, Concentration, if Mana Storage is 3 points, Code of Honour, if Mana Storage is 2 points, both.
 
Votes as they stand.
Adhoc vote count started by Yzarc on Jul 11, 2024 at 12:23 AM, finished with 59 posts and 27 votes.
 
Just thinking about our likely space marines. If we involve them in the resurrection of the World Soul by acting as a supporting congregation of the Faithful, I wonder if they'll have some link to the WorldSoul.

Dharok inherited Lorgar's connection to its remnants, making him a Shaman without needing to perform his own vision quest, but he has a closer relationship with Lorgar than the other marines will, and has an awakened Mythos as well.

For these marines, I wonder if accompanying us on the remainder of our adventure through the Umbra may count as a collective Vision Quest for Shamanic initiation.

If it does that would save a lot of effort.

It would also make it a lot safer to grant them the psyker mutation next turn, assuming they're not automatically psykers. Now, granting a thousand people a mutation is probably months of work, but hopefully we'll get enough breathing space to do so in the next turns, while we consolidate our hold on Colchis and do some build up. I'd personally like to follow that up by granting them the Shapechange mutation so they can adopt regular human form, but other things may take a higher priority.

When they're psykers they can also start learning useful powers like Precogntion and Psychoportation. An army of space marines with those powers would be hellish to fight.

We probably need Lorgar to teach them to become fully actualised people anyway, so he can include psyker lessons as part of that.

On that note, one of the powers of Telepathy 4 that Lorgar has is the ability to have entire conversations in the blink of an eye. That should allow Lorgar to teach incredibly quickly, as he can do hours worth of one-on-one teaching in seconds.

The other thing we may be able to do to substantially empower them is to have Thalassa make the Aegis power armour, as it's probably much better than the Mk II armour they currently have.

Fighting a 3rd circle want the creator firepower.

We're not. We're fighting two Hecatonchieres. The Shard of Winter is only here as a projection that can just talk.

As I mentioned above, we have three challenges:

1) 'Kill' the two Hecatoncheires
2) Thalassa dreams the Terraforming engines into existence and repairs the physical world
3) Lorgar resurrects the WorldSoul

For #1, Settra's existing army hopefully has it well in hand. One extra War Sphinx, even a heroic one is a marginal difference

For #2, we have a problem. Settra is refusing to split his own forces. That means that if the site of engines is defended, our Circle would have to defeat them without support. This is particularly problematic with the way mass combat works, where a horde of chaff can gradually wear a small group like our circle down.

Making the space marines gives us an army of our one to lead, making us much better at mass combat.

This in turn means we can risk splitting our circle, say sending Lorgar and Thalassa and the marines to the engines while Dharok and Fan accompany Fan to attack the hecatoncheires. This means we can actually send a stronger force against the later. It also opens up options such as having Fan capture the hecatoncheires using Ultimate Darkness Internalisation. We know they're powerful enough spirits their presence can contaminate the world, so if we can capture them and having Lorgar redeem them and Thalassa reformat their spiritual nature into something that promotes rebirth rather than Oblivion they may be able to have the opposite effect.

For #3, we know that people with True Faith can support each other's miracles. Having a chapter of his sons with True Faith will hopefully make it more likely that Lorgar will succeed.
 
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One thing to note though, if we do come out of this with a significant number of Wyld-marines those hundreds of sorcerers are going to be very... interesting to the Emperor and Magnus, the kind of interest that we never ever want to be fulfilled. We are going to have to hide them down the deepest hole we can find alongside Fan.
 
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