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Echoes of Creation (30k/Exalted)

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Interesting that Thalassa doesn't have Mechandrites.

In terms of Lores:

Lore of the Forge
* Enhance Object - mainly useful as it makes repairing objects very easy, reducing the number of successes to 1. Also interesting for the ability to enhance objects to make them permanently easier to use, which is possibly incredibly good when applied to guns and also to some other tools...
** Activate Object - mentally make a simple mechanical object function. Basically useless.
*** Shape Object - basically Craftsman Needs no Tools
**** Enchant Object - make magic items, but restricted to effects from known Lores, so not very useful
***** Imbue Object - bind souls to an object

Would be tempting for Enchant Object but lack of other Lores makes this non-viable.

Lore of Death
* Read Fate - psychometry on dead bodies, very niche
** Decay - do rolled successes levels of aggravated damage on touch (note that when you do levels of damage this bypasses soak and rolling damage dice, it just directly reduces health with no protection save not being touched)
*** Vision of Mortality - terrifies people so they run away
**** Extinguish Life - kill with a touch
***** Unlife - make zombies

Generally, a bad Lore for us that doesn't do much we need. If we can touch someone, we can shoot them with a death ray, which covers two of the powers. For Read Fate we can just grant Thalassa psychic Pscyometry, and we don't have any need for her to make zombies.

Lore of Flesh
* Body Control - remove poisons, including fatigue including others
** Manipulate Nerves - Temporarily improve or reduce pain perception, dexterity or perception up to 10 including others
*** Manipulate Flesh - Temporarily grant or reduce any physical or mental attribute up to 10 including others
**** Restore Flesh - instantly heal bashing or lethal damage including others
***** Shape Flesh - make significant, optionally permanent changes to physical attributes or grant physical merits/mutations including others

For our purposes, Lore of Flesh is the most useful, I believe, as it can temporarily grant buffs and permanently upgrade our population, which synergises very well with proposals for developing Genetor augments. More Healing never hurts as well. This is because Fan's time is very limited. Shape Flesh also isn't limited to 1/year, so we can do things like upgrade our population and make our own transhuman warriors much faster.

Manipulate Nerves is also a very potent attack power, as it can be used to cripple enemies by reducing their Dexterity or Perception, making them helpless. This is particularly important if we want to take them alive.

[X] Lore of Flesh
 
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Extinguish life is I suspect a much higher order effect than shooting them, you can build a anti-deathray shield, but you need something like a charm or divine blessing to resist a demigod of death wielding death itself against you.
 
DragonParadox said:
Extinguish life is I suspect a much higher order effect than shooting them, you can build a anti-deathray shield, but you need something like a charm or divine blessing to resist a demigod of death wielding death itself against you.
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Extinguish Life is no-selled by having a high Stamina though. You can resist the demigod of death wielding death itself by never skipping leg day. There are lots of ways of getting high Stamina in 40K.

Edit: I'll have to look, but I think there are death touch Gifts as well. I'm pretty sure there's no Gift equivilent to Shape Flesh, or that can grant such good short term buffs to allies.

Manipulate Nerves can also be a very good offensive power, as enemies that can't move are much less of a threat, and it's not mostly all or nothing like Extinguish Life, you can just grind down their Dexterity until they're helpless, and as that progresses they become much less of a threat as their Dexterity diminishes..
 
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Alratan said:
Extinguish Life is no-selled by having a high Stamina though. You can resist the demigod of death wielding death itself by never skipping leg day. There are lots of ways of getting high Stamina in 40K.

Edit: I'll have to look, but I think there are death touch Gifts as well. I'm pretty sure there's no Gift equivilent to Shape Flesh, or that can grant such good short term buffs to allies.
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I think it depends on what Stamina is in this system. With Mental primary she would be rolling 10 dice + 2 Successes, throw in an willpower and iron will into that and it's 10 dice +4 successes

@Yzarc when the power says it checks for enemy stamina what do you check, half their physical pool so say 10 on a Primarch?

Because that would give her a 40% chance or so to kill a primarch or equivalently supremely tough being with 1 Essence, 1 Willpower and a touch.
 
Hm, one wonders if it might have been possible for Lorgar to have thus debated with Usirian, had he been the one to face Usirian.

Well, perhaps Lorgar will still have his chance. Perhaps he can still defeat his opponent via debate.
 
Something else to consider is that Thalassa isn't operating solo. We're likely to be wanting to make a lot of space marines, or possibly try to upgrade the space marine template, in the not too distant future. Lore of Flesh seems like it would be absolutely ideal for that.

Yzarc said:
Half their pool. Though the absolute max is 10 dice per Attribute.
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Is this something they can get further effective bonuses to prevent death touches and the like?

Also, it's important whether we have to touch them or touch their power armour, as for many enemies that's a big difference. It says:

Article:
The Reaper's touch means death. By placing a hand on a living body and exerting her will, a demon can sever a victim's soul from his body, killing him instantly.


So I assume you have to touch living flesh. It also presumably wouldn't work on many targets that aren't made of living bodies plus a soul, like daemons.

If that's the case you have to break through their armour first.
 
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It would have been interesting to see Lorgar debating Usirian with the Art of Meditative Discussion Style of the Art of Victorious Concession Style. Well, the Four Arguments of Virtue Styles will need to be developed at a later time. There will be other opportunities for Lorgar to conduct such debates in the future.
 
On the subject of Death versus Flesh, I also think there's a narrative impact. I think it's better for Thalassa to strengthen her ability to help people become better, rather than making her better at killing people.

If you look at her argument in the last update, I think it's much stronger on the value of progress versus stasis.

On the details of the powers again, I think it's very likely that the Death touch powers need to touch living flesh, and from the description the way it works is very similar to how force weapons are described to work, and they may be more widely applicable, as they can cut away souls that aren't just bound to living bodies.

I also think Lore of Death has three basically useless powers and two that overlap and basically do the same thing. By contrast the Lore of Flesh has four useful powers (as the temporary and permanent buffs don't fully overlap).

As a side note, Lorgar and Dharok's Lores were described as being produced from the intersection of their True Faith and their Mythos. I wonder what the Machine God is doing to substitute for the True Faith part of this.
 
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Ah, one would have very much wished for the Lore of Spirits and the Lore of Realms to be made available to Lorgar. If he already had access to those Lores, it would have helped tremendously in preparing for the confrontation with the Mask of Winters. Who knows when there will be another such opportunity for Lorgar to gain access to those Lores.

If Lorgar could gain access to the Lore of Patterns and the Lore of Portals in the future, it would be very helpful for him. For that matter, there is the Lore of Paths. The Lore of Awakening, the Lore of the Firmament, and the Lore of Longing would be of much utility as well.
 
Alratan said:
I wonder what the Machine God is doing to substitute for the True Faith part of this.
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Not the machine God. At least not directly.

Why she unlocked a lore is because her Mythos was infused with a opposing Mythos. It was enough that she was not found lacking that she gained insight, you are now choosing what she gained insight in. Life, death or craft.
 
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Yzarc said:
This is in addition to touching a person as per the text.
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So basically you need to make a big enough hole in their armour/clothes, and then touch them through the gap?

Makes sense. Although I could see arguments that some enemies, like animals or tyranids, don't require that, as they fight naked.
 
[X] Lore of Flesh

This should help us make Space Marines more easily than we otherwise could with just Genetor stuff and Wishes.
 
Alratan said:
Presumably the same would apply to the auto-kill function of force weapons, which I think function in the same way?
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Force weapons do auto kill most things but not all as it is more damage then a manifestation of death. Lore of Death IS an auto kill if you pull it off.

Simply put some beings can soak a Force weapon. Not so for Lore of death.

The attack is just an additional way to deliver the effect.

So you can....

1. Touch flesh and roll.
Or
2. Do 3 hlvl damage and roll.
 
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