Anyway it is very late for me, good night guys.
Echoes of Creation (30k/Exalted)
- Thread starter Yzarc
- Start date
- Crossover
The thing is, if he says that he'd make such a pitch, how do we know he won't. He may have high end celestial spirit charms, and as a second circle demon equivilent, be capable of being in more than one place at once.
We're not in the future, we're in the now, when he may try to make a pitch again that we should just leave, with the ghosts of our dead family as a golden parachute and give him the chance to prove that him being in charge does the greater good for the greater number compared to what we'd do with it.
I'm surprise the Emperor hasn't sense some warp fuckery like the very fact that we just created a Demigoddess of Omnisciaah.
Well Terra was the center of DAoT Humanity. There was probably more Archaotech on Terra and the Rest of the Sol System than in the rest of the Segmntum Solar. If every Warlord runs around with DAoT Military Power Armour(Remember, Terminator Suits were based on a Maintance-Suit) , has DAoT Weaponary and has some Superweapons lying around, then 100 years is a pretty good result, especially if you had to start from zero
And not necessarily just DAoT gear, but also stolen or excavated xenotech relics and forbidden knowledge. Plus probably having the biggest collection of sequenced psyker and related psychic mutations along with other sorts of mutations and other augments that mad scientists can try to engineer into people as the apocalypse gets increasingly bad.
I also think it's likely that the Emperor started off as just another Techno-Barbarian warlord with decent but not world shaping psyker powers, which he then bootstrapped both to augment himself and to build the armies he used to embark on galactic conquest through having the good luck of being in the right time in the right place and the smarts to exploit the knowledge and relics that he gained as he conquered Earth.
The rest is just good mythmaking, like most conquerors indulge in to cement their rule. He's just as much a fifty thousand year old gestalt shaman Alpha plus plus uberman as Alexander the Great was actually the son of Zeus.
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You don't beat a shard of the void dragon by being a weak ass mere alpha+ psyker.
You can beat a Shard of a C'Tan while not being any kind of psyker at all, just being a Space Marine captain. There are C'Tan Shards and C'Tan Shards, and even the Emperor's mythology says he defeated one who was explicitly wounded and starved.
And if the Emperor is just another Techno-Barbarian Warlord who invented a mythic origin to big himself up, he wouldn't have fought a Shard of the Void Dragon back M1, it would either have never happened or he stole the achievement of someone else who did after learning about the records the Mechanicum apparently collected of what they thought were the Shard's projected memories.
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There's a lot about being just a techno Barbarian that doesn't make sense for the emperor. An initial reason is unlike almost every other human even those particularly technologically inclined that we see he is both seen capable of fixing and holding an understanding of the technology and its basis. This is how we convinces the mechanicus he is the omnisiah probably how he possesses the bucephalus how he makes the Custodes and the Primarchs, how he made the Phalanx that large asteroid sized vessel that he gifts to Dorn. Another problem with that is no psychic Tech we've ever seen so far even Tech that affects entire planets allows half of what the emperor does with just his psychic powers out and out teleportation direct suppression of Legions of individuals the projection of the astronomicon from a distance not even on the throne the complete ignoring of blanks no matter their intensity even Magnus is weakened by the presence of the sisters of silence and the emperor is completely unaffected. Finally we get to background issues with him being just a techno Barbarian everyone around him either needs to be younger or not have known him beforehand. Both him and Malcador remember the Golden Age demonic entities of all types refer to him as anathema and he's a known factor to both the Eldari and Druhkari. Then there's the fact the emperor is seen speaking accurately about subjects that are relatively Niche today 28,000 years later. Not to mention his vaults contain things that would only make sense if he knew directly the value of preserving them. Malcador himself is directly too young to know the value of the Mona Lisa and the pieces of the Louvre but things of that nature exist within his vaults. Then there's motivation questions of why is his scope so large if he was a techno Barbarian if he was just a technical Barbarian conqueror then doing Planet by Planet breakdowns like he did on Tara would be the way to do it rather than building Legions never mind creating direct administrative and governing bodies behind him a lot of things I can think of don't work with the Techno Barbarian angle.
There's a Psyker Discipline called Technopathy that while unusual is not at all unknown. One of the powers allows you to repair technology. Pair that with a strong psytech amplifier, which we know he had at least one of, as that's what one of the functions of the Golden Throne, for example, he could very well have acquired others as part of his conquest. That's why he became a relatively stronger psyker and could do things later that he didn't use to conquer Earth, because he couldn't before he'd looted the relevant gear.
As for his knowledge, Earth was probably the greatest repository of knowledge in human space, and after conquering Earth he would have owned all of it that survived. He could easily have learned that rather than retained knowledge from when it was first invented.
As to the Phalanx it's the other way around, Dorn found it and offered it to the Emperor.
The Astronomicon is a massive piece of psytech infrastructure fuelled by the sacrifice of psykers. The Emperor may command it but he doesn't direct it
And in terms of relics if he found a stasis vault it could well contain descriptions of their origin and importance, and if he is mythmaking he'd of course use them to reinforce it.
And being known by entities that can see potential futures doesn't mean he was previously a big deal just that he's in danger of becoming one if future, which he did as he's becoming the core of a warp god.
And as to why he'd conquer the galaxy he's like Alexander, but there are more worlds to conquer when he conquered Earth. And the shit show he made of administering the galaxy is much more suggestive of a Techno-Barbarian Warlord's skill and attitude rather than someone who experienced the peak of humanity's governance and culture. He acts like a brutal warlord because that's all he's ever known, everthing else is just propoganda.
The astronomicon didn't require the Thousand souls to operate before he was entombed in it. His vaults Allowed no one in other than it's custodies he also made his custodians before his conquest of Terra. He also possessed the Bucephalus before his conquest of Terror as well. Also where are you getting technopathy because there's telekinesis biomancy pyromancy and telepathy you might have access to a source I don't but I'm pretty sure technopathy isn't a well-known discipline or otherwise. Also does that let you make a new parts out of nothing or is it repair something that is freshly broken.
Also I'm not going to comment on the quality of his governance because to be honest he didn't particularly govern at all. What I meant by his scope and the systems he set up is why didn't he just break down Mars next he destroyed every country and every techno Barbarian on Earth why wouldn't he immediately do that to his nearest neighbor why would he decommission the Thunder Warriors why would he bother making the astartes or the Primarchs. If he's just a techno Barbarian he has no reason to compromise with Mars in any sense them having the autonomy they do is a distinct weakness of the Imperium and would generally act as a thorn in his side if he was just a techno Barbarian emperor so why wouldn't he break them like he broke every other country and polity on Earth and Gene cults of the moon why wouldn't he just break Mars the same way.
Then there's the fact that he just doesn't use weapons that he definitely has in his vaults from the Dark Age of Technology. While the emperor seems willing to bust out exterminatus and general very powerful weapons against planets and populations there are some things he's just not willing to use which if he was a techno Barbarian why would he care about not using them. There's also him being a known Factor by both factions of the elves and all of the demons and his own particular qualities of his light in Turbo murdering them. If he was a random techno Barbarian he wouldn't have that presence with the Demons of chaos that would have no reason to know him other than he's expunged a couple of other technobarians on a single planet he would have no presence with the Eldar whatsoever because you know none of them care about any humans name or title. His psychic powers would have no reason to be more effective against demons either. Still no understanding of how he's completely immune to Blanks when the next most powerful psychic we see Magnus gets pushed down from being insanely powerful sorcerer to can't use his sorcery against Leman Russ in their presence.
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Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
Solar Hero Style prohibits Lorgar from using anything but his fists. So he is kida specializing in fist weapons as is Dharok.
Once he spreads that style in his legion, the power fist is going to be the weapon of choice,
That said, Khakkhara(Spear tip) is fine if Golden Janashiary style is picked up and this is an easy style to pick up for Lorgar.
Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
Whoops. Fixed. It was Psychic changes.
Write in option or when things calm down. Though unless they awaken essence, they cannot use the magic parts.
Alpha+ means 'off the scale', there is no designation after it because the Imperium has never needed one. Weak compared to what?
Because he is the Mask of Winters, his whole thing is wanting to be recognized by his peers for his glory and grace. Setting up democracy, being beholden to the populace even in theory would be anathema to his character
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As far as I know. The Emperor's vaults beneath his palace in the Himalayas were built after his conquest. He may refuse to use weapons in them because they risk catastrophic consequences that can spread, and those weapons may simply have been things he recovered when he conquered Earth, like the Golden Throne.
The Technomancy reforge power allows you to make damaged equipment while again. It's a relatively rare discipline that Iron Hands Librarians are know for. Psyker powers in 40K are enormously varied and can explicitly do almost anything.
The Astronomicon is an enormous piece of psytech architecture amplified by psychic emitters the size of cities that, as far as I know, was always designed to focus the powers of an enormous ten thousand strong choir of psykers. More of those psykers may burn out after the Emperor was placed on the throne, but from what I can tell the Emperor never powered the Astronomicon, he merely directed the choir that did. The psykers sacrificed to the 40K Emperor are different to the ones that gradually burn out because maintaining the Astronomicon is hard work.
If the Emperor is a techno-barbarian made good he was extra incentive to ally with Mars, as he helps their knowledge, resources, and existing worlds to support his Crusade, and he needs the Primarchs as he needs their help to conquer the galaxy. Needing allies and vassals is a sign of his weakness, not his strength.
The actual evidence he's immune to blanks isn't strong. His strength against daemons may be because, for example, in a possible future he'll become a warp god worshipped by people as a ward against evil. Or it might be because he's engineered himself to be particularly effective against daemons. Or he's been changed by possession or use of a xenotech relic like the Golden Throne. Being a reincarnated gestalt of shamans doesn't explain why he would be the Anathema either.
And as I said, precognitive entities may be aware of the Emperor not because of what he is or has done, but because of what he can possibly do.
Well, cestus, fighting gauntlet, khatar, tiger claws, pankrator's cestus and improvised weapons counted as style weapons for solar hero.
If that's the case that would presumably mean that lightning claws and chainfists would count as well.
We know that OOC. We don't IC, and he's a masterful manipulator and liar. And even OOC he may quite like a make populations proclaim him their leader by popular demand, which someone backed by powerful charms may be able to get people to do.
I mean; look at bits of his 1E write up
Article: The Mask of Winters is a liar, though he takes great pains to always appear honorable and courteous. He always comports himself immaculately, keeps his word and acts with the appearance of good faith at all times. But it's all
a show. When he invaded Thorns, he did so with a smile. But smiles only hide treachery for so long. Eventually, they fade and the truth lays bare. The youngest of the Deathlords, the Mask of Winters plays a dangerous game, attempting at once to dominate the mortal realm of Thorns and at the same time play the other Deathlords who might oppose his quick rise to power off of one another. Employing a combination of courtesy and audacity, the Mask of Win- ters wasted no time in establishing himself as a worthy power. Already, he commands an entire network of spies throughout the Threshold and several other areas, in- cluding the Realm itself. Very little occurs politically in the Threshold without the Mask of Winters hearing of it.
And beyond that, this is only a Shard of Winters. 2nd Circle demons can be quite different to their overselves and even as they reflect aspects of them.
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If we force him to explicitly lie that will ping Factual Determination Analysis. As for mind controlling the populace with charms, sure he can do that... it would take a lot of time and a lot of playing to the little people he just does not like. I'm making a guess as to what his weaknesses are and trying to exploit them, which is better than something as expansive as 'make the universe a better place'. That comparative means he would only have to prove that he is better than some present condition and he wins, shouldn't be that hard this is Warhammer 40K. The Greatest Good for the Greatest Number makes him jump though a lot of hoops and as you said potentially lie along the way,
It's a good point about Factual Determination Analysis, as long as the Shard knows he's lying. If it genuinely believes that it's so amazing that of course all the mere mortals it encounters on its conquest would obviously bow down before its superior power and wisdom, and that anyone who doesn't is themselves evil and could only oppose them on that basis, then FDA wouldn't trigger.
That degree of delusion would conflict with the experience of most higher ghosts, they do not call loose Hun Souls an Angry Ghosts for no reason. Yeah is is possible for them to exist in some kind of contentment but that is not an automatic or indeed common existence.
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Loose Po souls are Hungry Ghosts; loose Hun souls generally tend to repeat the patterns of their life, as I recall. They're not particularly angry unless that was a defining characteristic of who they were as living people.
If you know without a doubt that you and what you want is good and right; then it's very easy to come to believe that anyone who disagrees is either evil and deserves defeating or so ignorant or stupid that they deserve help to realise the error of their ways.
In a universe where people can actually genuinely be that evil or that wrong (Chaos, dark Eldar; etc), then it's hard to a priori draw the line. If he says he will only kill or forcibly re-educate evil or deceived people, that probably would be the greatest good for the greatest number. The problem is it's a matter of judgment about who is evil or deceived enough to need that. And that's very hard to refute in advance IC.
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Hungry and Angry is the default from what I recall, if you give the latter grave goods and prayer and attention you get something a lot more balanced, but just put someone in the ground and wait for the ghosts to come out that's what you get.
Having quickly checked, I don't think that's right. In order for a Ghost to stick around rather than pass on they need at least one Passion as well as at least one Fetter, but that Passion is no more likely to be anger than it is to be love or hate or ambition or whatever.
Thinking of Psyker powers, we have Thalassa down as getting Clairvoyance which makes sense tactically.
Thematically, Cyberpathy and Cyberkinesis would make a lot of sense to have purchased; but they seem like the kind of things that Thalassa should perhaps have as internalised powers by default, particularly given Yzarx suggested that she did have some inherent rapport with machines when I considered buying her a Savant - Geologis specialty
Although it's perhaps a bit premature, if we do go with this XP plan; one thing we might want to consider using VEE to grant all three of our companions five dots in Psychoportation.
Backed by Lorgar's Precognition and networked with his Telepathy, Psychoportation would make them holy terrors on the battlefield. For Lorgar and Dharok, it means they can teleport into melee range to bypass the DAoT ranged weapons that the enemy ghosts are carrying. For Thalassa, combined with her Extra Speed it means she can essentially perform pop up attacks with her integrated heavy weapons, porting out of cover to lay down a barrage of fire and then porting someone else before the enemy can get organised to concentrate fire back.
Of course, Thalassa is now a much better melee combatant than she used to be, so she might also want to be psychoporting into melee. Integrated heavy weapons could mean heavy melee weapons.
The only challenge is that Fan is then left as the one in the circle who can't teleport.
The limitation here is that using a psyker power costs one willpower or one essence, which are scarce resources. Unless you're called Dharok. If you're Dharok you have an Essence/Willpower reactor when fighting evil enemies. With the way his physical multiplier stacks with power armour when fighting evil, and the fact that he has a power fist*, he should be one hit disabling them. Thanks to Extra Speed he can teleport next to someone with his first action, kill them with his second acrion and regenerate the Willpower he spent m, then teleport off to his next opponent. And unlike the others who need to teleport sparingly, Dharok can just keep doing it. As the warp is a hostile environment he's immune to the regular deleterious effects of teleporting - and although the Chaos Gods may generally want to intervene, Grey Knights have teleported right on top of Greater Daemons multiple times, and Chaos is probably keeping its head down given what's happening.
* I observed before that Tiger Claws were style weapons for Solar Heroes; so I'd expect Lightning Claws and Chain Fists to work as style weapons as well, and Dharok should get some Lightning Claws.
Thinking of Thalassa and combat styles more widely; she might be an idea candidate to work with Dharok to invent a version of Path of the Arbiter style. That TMA allows the user to condense an artifact weapon, armour, and mount out of essence in order to purge corruption. As long as the mount becomes mechanical rather than biological, it's a good fit.
Thematically, Cyberpathy and Cyberkinesis would make a lot of sense to have purchased; but they seem like the kind of things that Thalassa should perhaps have as internalised powers by default, particularly given Yzarx suggested that she did have some inherent rapport with machines when I considered buying her a Savant - Geologis specialty
Although it's perhaps a bit premature, if we do go with this XP plan; one thing we might want to consider using VEE to grant all three of our companions five dots in Psychoportation.
Backed by Lorgar's Precognition and networked with his Telepathy, Psychoportation would make them holy terrors on the battlefield. For Lorgar and Dharok, it means they can teleport into melee range to bypass the DAoT ranged weapons that the enemy ghosts are carrying. For Thalassa, combined with her Extra Speed it means she can essentially perform pop up attacks with her integrated heavy weapons, porting out of cover to lay down a barrage of fire and then porting someone else before the enemy can get organised to concentrate fire back.
Of course, Thalassa is now a much better melee combatant than she used to be, so she might also want to be psychoporting into melee. Integrated heavy weapons could mean heavy melee weapons.
The only challenge is that Fan is then left as the one in the circle who can't teleport.
The limitation here is that using a psyker power costs one willpower or one essence, which are scarce resources. Unless you're called Dharok. If you're Dharok you have an Essence/Willpower reactor when fighting evil enemies. With the way his physical multiplier stacks with power armour when fighting evil, and the fact that he has a power fist*, he should be one hit disabling them. Thanks to Extra Speed he can teleport next to someone with his first action, kill them with his second acrion and regenerate the Willpower he spent m, then teleport off to his next opponent. And unlike the others who need to teleport sparingly, Dharok can just keep doing it. As the warp is a hostile environment he's immune to the regular deleterious effects of teleporting - and although the Chaos Gods may generally want to intervene, Grey Knights have teleported right on top of Greater Daemons multiple times, and Chaos is probably keeping its head down given what's happening.
* I observed before that Tiger Claws were style weapons for Solar Heroes; so I'd expect Lightning Claws and Chain Fists to work as style weapons as well, and Dharok should get some Lightning Claws.
Thinking of Thalassa and combat styles more widely; she might be an idea candidate to work with Dharok to invent a version of Path of the Arbiter style. That TMA allows the user to condense an artifact weapon, armour, and mount out of essence in order to purge corruption. As long as the mount becomes mechanical rather than biological, it's a good fit.