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Echoes of Creation (30k/Exalted)

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Adhoc vote count started by Yzarc on Apr 22, 2024 at 7:50 AM, finished with 87 posts and 19 votes.
  • [X] Look beyond the obvious and discern a deeper meaning.
    [X] Remember the lessons of the past; apply them to the future.
    [X] Be consistent in your rewards and punishments.
    [X] Give freely of your knowledge, but wrap it up like a precious gift.
    [X] Seek out the brightest embers and feed them until they become bonfires.
    [X] Ride the demon, do not let it ride you.
    [X] Your rage must be cold, it must be reasoned and it must be legendary.
    [X] Write in: The UN Declaration of Humans Rights:- There is a ancient documents. A holy relic ancient when the men of stones were but dust in the wind. This document is a declaration, to the world and the universe. From the ancients of holy terra, declaring the inherent worth of every individual humans and a set of fundamental rights thay arise from the inherent worth of each individual. Fan morgal struggles with these inalienable rights, his world is harsh and forces great compromises. But deep in the depth of his hearts he belives in the fundamental human rights, and he wishes to impart that same belife into his son.
    [X] Write in: Choice. Choices are what makes us what we are. Sometimes,the choices you have,and give others, are very limited. But we have to strive to give people opportunities to help themselves. To become better. To thrive.
    [X] Attune yourself to life in all its forms.
    [X] Give when generosity is needed; take when theft is required.
    [X] Will is the measure of all things, those whose heart burns with its terrible heat can do anything.
    [X] Living is an excercise in violence; violence is the act of imposing one will upon the world. Reach the heaven through violence
    [X] He who followed his own path inevitably craved it into the world.
    [X] Build your sense of self akin to a tower invincible and impenetrable. Once you have built your tower, you must deconstruct it, brick by brick, stone by stone. You must do it meticulously and carefully, so that while you leave no physical trace of it remaining, your tower is still built in your mind and your heart, ready to spring anew at a moment's notice.
    [X] Men must stand up for what they believe in. One cannot simply mouth their agreement and do nothing but watch. instead one must toil for its success, bleed in its defense, and be ready to give one life should one deem it necessary.
    [X] People should be treated with a base level of dignity.
    [X] Write in: the Necessity of EVIL (stolen/paraphrased from THIS Video)
    -[X] Write in: without violence, "evil" or conflict, society would not progress only an unattainable ideal, growing stagnant till collapse; too much violence is bad but its a facet of life, those that aren't prepared to face it will fall to it. look inwards to understand, then express it in humane ways (arts, debates and discussions, etc.)
    --[X] Write in: Nature isn't a kind parent, by its principles one must die to sustain another by acquiring limited resources via an advantage it has over other; society is an agreement to not live nature so arguments justified by "its nature" are in bad faith, we shifted from enacting every evil to debates to which ones are discarded and what should be kept
    --[X] Write in: laws don't protect, but the law is protected; a better, ideal world is something humans seek since their inception, we sacrificed our freedoms to achieve it; these hopes and dreams form society and law. sacrificing our limitless possibilities to guarantee our ideal future.
    -[X] Write in: violent is commercialized, when words don't work its easy to express negative emotions, via the abundance tools that magnify a small spark into a deadly wildfire, one doesn't have to be strong but acquire a weapon.
    --[X] Write In: fear of a costly victory controls and limits violence, if one side is stronger there not incentive to not attack another and profit from conflict (TLDR, M.A.D prevents conflict)
    --[X] Write In: if EVIL exist and people profit, why not have those Profits be in better hands? if one commits EVIL, can we use the benefits to help miniate, regulate the Evils of Man? Is it better to have large scale, desensitized violence or small scale, visceral conflicts? we might not be able to stop a brother killing brother but we can stop entire tribes and cultures, societies from wiping themselves and others out. Create whatever good you can from necessary Evil and prevent the worse from happening.
    -[X] Write In: violence and evil itself is simple, but the causes are complex; its why violent is a guarantee, the simplicity of death gets rid of the complex, chaotic factor known as other human beings, less emotions means less conflicts to have a manageable system
    --[X] Write In: this creates a world of basic people with basic desires, that cannot fend for themselves and must take from the hard work of others that creates great human creations, from arts, sciences , philosophy, etc. this ruins the Great works of humanity; others will watch you gather great wealth and have every need taken care of, and are incentivized to follow this simple path of violence but just as you can gain much, you can also be reduced to nothing, violence is indiscriminate and can be used against you.
    --[X] Write In: to choose a peaceful life is to struggle against not only those who attack you, but Nature where our needs can only be acquired via hard word instead of stealing, the complexity required to survive is constant. Peace is a respect for what life truly is, to struggle and overcome odds the strongest can walk past and create something even greater than they ever could, were Violence has Highs and Lows, Peace is a harder fight that never ends, one that lasts a lifetime; a lifetime is what's needed to impart good values but its a lifetime outside forces can impart bad values, its this fight that imparts any value into humans, its how we create society, civilization, art, culture, etc.
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Turn 1: Debts to be paid
  • Threadmarks
    • Colchis - 830.M30
    In the flickering light of the campfire, Lorgar sat opposite you, his gaze fixed upon the dancing flames, absorbing every word you spoke with a reverence that bespoke of his deep respect for your wisdom. Tonight was a night of enlightenment, as you chose to impart upon him some of your most cherished philosophies, hoping they would serve as guiding stars in his journey through life.

    "Look beyond the obvious, my Son," you began, your voice resonating with a quiet authority that commanded attention. "In every circumstance, there lies a deeper truth waiting to be unveiled. It is easy to be swayed by surface appearances, but true enlightenment comes from diving beneath the surface, from unraveling the hidden truths that shape our existence."

    "And remember the lessons of the past; let them illuminate the path to the future," you continued, your words carrying the weight of ages past. "History is a tapestry woven with the threads of triumphs and failures, each thread holding valuable lessons for those who seek to learn. By heeding the wisdom of our forebears, we can chart a course towards a brighter tomorrow."

    "Be steadfast in your judgments, my Son, both in rewards and punishments," you advised, your tone firm yet compassionate. "Consistency breeds trust and respect among those you lead. They crave certainty, a clear understanding of what is expected of them and what consequences await their actions. By remaining steadfast in your decisions, you will earn the loyalty of your followers."

    "And when sharing your knowledge, do so with reverence and humility," you continued, your voice taking on a softer tone. "Knowledge is a precious gift, a beacon of light in the darkness of ignorance. But like any gift, it must be bestowed with care and consideration. Wrap your wisdom in the cloak of humility, and it will be received with gratitude and reverence. But like a precious gift, wrap it in a way that honors its value."

    "Lastly, seek out the brightest embers among us and fan them until they become roaring bonfires," you concluded, your eyes gleaming with a fervent passion. "There are those among us blessed with exceptional talents and potential. It is our duty as leaders to nurture these sparks of greatness, to fuel their flames until they blaze brightly for all to see."

    As the weight of your words settled upon Lorgar, he opened his mouth to respond, but you raised a hand to forestall him, a solemn expression gracing your features.

    "Before you speak, my Son," you interjected, "understand that these are not mere ideas to be debated. They are the bedrock of my existence, forged through a lifetime of experience and contemplation. I must impress upon you that these are my personal beliefs, not absolute truths, but rather guiding principles that have shaped my journey. Your path may lead you to different conclusions, and that is perfectly acceptable."

    Lorgar nodded in understanding, his eyes reflecting a mixture of curiosity and respect. "I see, father," he murmured. "I will honor your wisdom and allow these teachings to resonate within me, guiding my steps as I forge my own path."

    With a silent nod of acknowledgement, Lorgar then asked about another topic that he had in mind.

    "Why are people made into slaves, father?" Lorgar asked, his voice carrying a mix of curiosity and confusion.

    You sighed, knowing the weight of the topic at hand. "The slaves of the caravan were deemed as 'The forgotten, the unclean, the unworthy,' by Kor Phaeron and the Covenant," you explained, your voice heavy with the sorrow of injustice. "They were stripped of their humanity, seen as mere tools to be used and discarded at will."

    Lorgar's eyes widened in disbelief. "But why? What did they do to deserve such treatment?"

    "Nothing, most of the time," you replied, a deep sadness evident in your tone. "Their only crime was being born into a world that deemed them unworthy of basic rights and dignity."

    A flame of indignation flickered in Lorgar's eyes. "That's not right," he declared, his voice filled with determination. "No one should be treated as less than human, regardless of their circumstances."

    You placed a comforting hand on his shoulder. "I agree, Lorgar," you said. "It is a great injustice, one that we must strive to correct. But for now, our focus must be on helping those who have suffered under the yoke of slavery, to show them that they are worthy of respect and dignity."

    Lorgar nodded, his resolve firm. "I understand, father. I will do whatever I can to help those in need, to show them that they are not forgotten, unclean, or unworthy."

    Proud of his compassion, you smiled. "That is all I can ask for, my son," you said. "Together, we can make a difference, one small act of kindness at a time."

    Then, Lorgar's tone shifted, his voice laced with a hint of vulnerability. "Father, am I a slave?" he asked, his gaze searching.

    "No, Lorgar," you replied firmly, your voice resonating with authority. "You are not a slave. You are a free spirit, with the power to choose your own path."

    You were not sure what brought this on, but looking at Lorgar, he genuinely believed that he was bound. You recalled his earlier words, when he made the world Kneel. That you were free. But that was for later, you look at Lorgar who seemed contemplative, as if grappling with his own thoughts.

    "But what if I am? What if I am enslaved to myself, to my future, to my own fears and doubts?" he asked, his voice echoing with uncertainty.

    "Then, my son, you must break those chains," you declared, your words carrying the weight of conviction. "You must free yourself from whatever holds you back, whatever limits your potential."

    Tears welled up in Lorgar's eyes, reflecting the flickering light of the campfire. "But what if I fail?" he whispered, his voice trembling with emotion.

    "Then you pick yourself up and try again," you stated, your tone unwavering. "Failure is not the end, but a stepping stone to success. It is through failure that we learn, grow, and become stronger."

    "Thank you, father," Lorgar said, his voice filled with gratitude. "I will break my chains and be free, no matter what it takes."

    "I have no doubt that you will, my son," you replied.

    As the moment lingered in a comfortable silence, Lorgar's expression turned serious. "Father," he began, "we need to talk about the guards. What should we do with them?"

    "Lorgar," you began, "these guards were complicit in the atrocities committed by Kor Phaeron and the Covenant. They cannot simply be let go."

    Lorgar nodded, his expression thoughtful. "But they were also victims themselves, coerced into following orders out of fear or desperation," he pointed out.

    Acknowledging his perspective, you continued, "True, but that does not absolve them of their actions. We must find a way to hold them accountable while also being just and fair."

    Throughout the night, you and Lorgar deliberated over the fate of the guards. You discussed the possibility of rehabilitation, of giving them a chance to redeem themselves through service to the tribe. Exile was also considered, the option of sending them away to live out their days in solitude.

    "But what if they refuse to change?" Lorgar asked, his concern evident in his voice. "What if they continue to pose a threat to the tribe?"

    Placing a reassuring hand on his shoulder, you replied, "Then we must be prepared to take more drastic measures. But let us not lose hope in their capacity for change. Everyone deserves a chance at redemption."

    As the night wore on, the two of you continued to weigh the options, considering the implications of each decision. Finally, as the first light of dawn began to illuminate the horizon, you reached a conclusion.

    "We will offer the guards a choice," you decided, your voice unwavering. "They can either choose to join our tribe, to work towards a better future for all, or they can choose to leave, to find their own path elsewhere. But they must understand that their actions will have consequences."

    Lorgar nodded, accepting the decision. "I will speak to them," he said, determination burning in his eyes. "I will try to convince them to choose the path of redemption."

    Proud of his conviction, you remarked, "You will make a fine leader one day, Lorgar. Now, let us go and speak to the guards. The dawn of a new day awaits us, and we must face it together, as a tribe."
    CHOICE:
    Lorgar wants to talk to the Guards and convince them to choose to join the tribe, but you can already see the problems with this. So……

    [] As part of Lorgar's debt to you, have him not just work on the Guards, but also the slaves and tribesmen and unite all three groups into one. (Lorgar gains the Project: Unify the tribe)

    [] As part of Lorgar's debt to you, (Write in: Subject to GM approval).

    The Debt must be something achievable, and only lasts for a Year and a day. It can, at max, be one Project's worth of AP.
     
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  • Threadmarks
    • [X] As part of Lorgar's debt to you, have him not just work on the Guards, but also the slaves and tribesmen and unite all three groups into one. (Lorgar gains the Project: Unify the tribe)

    I'm sure he can pull it off. We need to forge a new people anyway.
     
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    [X] As part of Lorgar debt to you, have him not just work on the Guards, but also the slaves and tribesmen and unite all three groups into one. (Lorgar gains the Project: Unify the tribe)
     
    You know I can't help but notice we seem to be making Lorgar less and less compatible with the Imperium. Just this chapter:
    • Reinforcing his hatred of slavery -> The Imperium has it which means the Emperor at least tolerates it
    • Making it clear that Lorrgar should not be a slave in the broad sense. Well the old 'Lord of Lightning' made him as a living weapon

    [X] As part of Lorgar's debt to you, have him not just work on the Guards, but also the slaves and tribesmen and unite all three groups into one. (Lorgar gains the Project: Unify the tribe)
     
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    DragonParadox said:
    You know I can't help but notice we seem to be making Lorgar less and less compatible with the Imperium. Just this chapter:
    • Reinforcing his hatred of slavery -> The Imperium has it which means the Emperor at least tolerates it
    • Making it clear that Lorrgar should not be a slave in the broad sense. Well the old 'Lord of Lightning' made him as a living weapon
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    A bit more to it then that. I mean Lorgar is anti Slavery but not more than Angron and Corax. The Imperium was also all over the place with regards to slavery but that was 40k and you are currently in 30K.

    Lorgar is going to have issues in Servertor conversions but vat cloned ones won't bother him as they were not people.

    The bit about him being a slave has a deeper meaning but you did not rell well enough to see what was bugging him but enough hints were there in the words.
     
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    [X] As part of Lorgar's debt to you, have him not just work on the Guards, but also the slaves and tribes and unite all three groups into one. (Lorgar gains the Project: Unify the tribe)
     
    [X] As part of Lorgar debt to you, have him not just work on the Guards, but also the slaves and tribesmen and unite all three groups into one. (Lorgar gains the Project: Unify the tribe)
     
    Yzarc said:
    A bit more to it then that. I mean Lorgar is anti Slavery but not more than Angron and Corax. The Imperium was also all over the place with regards to slavery but that was 40k and you are currently in 30K.

    Lorgar is going to have issues in Servertor conversions but vat cloned ones won't bother him as they were not people.

    The bit about him being a slave has a deeper meaning but you did not rell well enough to see what was bugging him but enough hints were there in the words.
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    He is afraid of being enslaved to his urge, perhaps to a lesser extent to his powers I think. He is so much of a better leader than everyone else that it feels like he's meant to be one which is its own kind of slavery.
     
    [X] As part of Lorgar debt to you, have him not just work on the Guards, but also the slaves and tribesmen and unite all three groups into one. (Lorgar gains the Project: Unify the tribe)
     
    so wait the debt is an action we assign logar's to achieve, what are the limits of the assignments? what's the goal in logar's development?
     
    *name* said:
    so wait the debt is an action we assign logar's to achieve, what are the limits of the assignments? what's the goal in logar's development?
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    The Action
    1. Must progress the intimacy or goal of the Infernal.
    2. Must be a Major action (That takes effort and longer than a scene to complete, mechanically, something to spend AP on)
    3. Must not be impossible
    4. Must not last longer than a year and a day. (They can try for a year and then call it quits)
    5. Must have a cost that is not trivial.
     
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    [X] As part of Lorgar debt to you, have him not just work on the Guards, but also the slaves and tribesmen and unite all three groups into one. (Lorgar gains the Project: Unify the tribe)
     
    [X] As part of Lorgar debt to you, have him not just work on the Guards, but also the slaves and tribesmen and unite all three groups into one. (Lorgar gains the Project: Unify the tribe)


    [] As part of Lorgar's debt to you, (Study with the Maelstroms - The Spirits of the desert can teach you how to create disasters and other weather phenomena; help spread this knowledge with the tribe if any have the talent and will to learn).

    [] As part of Lorgar's debt to you, (train the tribe on surviving the harshest conditions, and forage in the deep desert; TDLR i want Logar to train the tribe to have a very shitty version of Transcendent Desert Creature, maybe they commune with the spirits for help, maybe its a skill, i don't know how Lorgar would go about this)

    @Yzarc are these 2 viable?
     
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    DragonParadox said:
    You know I can't help but notice we seem to be making Lorgar less and less compatible with the Imperium.
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    I mean… that's a good thing IMO? The imperium is kinda a fascist horror show so…

    [X] As part of Lorgar debt to you, have him not just work on the Guards, but also the slaves and tribesmen and unite all three groups into one. (Lorgar gains the Project: Unify the tribe)
     
    *name* said:
    [] As part of Lorgar's debt to you, (Study with the Maelstroms - The Spirits of the desert can teach you how to create disasters and other weather phenomena; help spread this knowledge with the tribe if any have the talent and will to learn).

    [] As part of Lorgar's debt to you, (train the tribe on surviving the harshest conditions, and forage in the deep desert; TDLR i want Logar to train the tribe to have a very shitty version of Transcendent Desert Creature, maybe they commune with the spirits for help, maybe its a skill, i don't know how Lorgar would go about this)
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    Both are certainly possible but would not be immediate nor something Lorgar would.....not like but something he is comfortable with.

    The first comes with the inherient problems with Sorcery. Weight. Lorgar cannot grant people weight and it will result in mediocre Sorcerors until you step in.

    The second is redundant as they are a tribe that have lived in the desert for generations and can't really get the supernatural aspects of TDC, so it won't really amount to much.
     
    Sesparra said:
    I mean… that's a good thing IMO? The imperium is kinda a fascist horror show so…
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    Well yeah, it is a good thing morally, but it sets us up for a potentially very dangerous fight. I mean the best way to defeat the Imperium of man from where we are standing is from the inside. If we have to do it from the outside the best way to win would be to kill the Emperor and let the whole thing fracture and that is a tall order.
     
    Not weighting into the discussion but will point out that

    1. 30K Imperium is a different beast from 40k imperium
    2. Lorgar would find allies in his anti-slavery crusade in Corax and Angron.

    So this is not a deal breaker by any means and if you join. you can push for reforms. There is a lot more to it, but those would be spoilers.
     
    Sesparra said:
    I mean… that's a good thing IMO? The imperium is kinda a fascist horror show so…

    [X] As part of Lorgar debt to you, have him not just work on the Guards, but also the slaves and tribesmen and unite all three groups into one. (Lorgar gains the Project: Unify the tribe)
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    I mean this still is 30k, the plan was for Big E get his sons back finish the crusade and them uplift the rest of humanity from the miserable life that they are living but shit happens and he gets trapped in the golden toiled.
     
    [X] As part of Lorgar debt to you, have him not just work on the Guards, but also the slaves and tribesmen and unite all three groups into one. (Lorgar gains the Project: Unify the tribe)
     
    Yzarc said:
    Lorgar is going to have issues in Servertor conversions but vat cloned ones won't bother him as they were not people.
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    Thats always been an absurd premise from 40k fans.

    Its also not true, babys don't get a their soul into adult hood or when they devolp a personlity, they are born with it, hence why child psykers can be corrupted at birth.

    A clone would also have a soul. It is the exact same as making a baby into a servitor.

    What, the imperium also does that. Well i guess my argument is defeated.
     
    Acolyte said:
    A clone would also have a soul. It is the exact same as making a baby into a servitor.
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    Not true. Take the Krieg for example. They have been noted as having weaker souls.

    That said, I was talking about Flash clones, clones that were grown into adulthood at greatly accelerated speeds. The kind that are genuinely soulless and mindless.

    Keep in mind that Lorgar would be able to see souls, which is why he would be greatly disturbed by the screaming soul stuck as a servator as compared to a near soulless flash grown servator.
     
    DragonParadox said:
    Well yeah, it is a good thing morally, but it sets us up for a potentially very dangerous fight. I mean the best way to defeat the Imperium of man from where we are standing is from the inside. If we have to do it from the outside the best way to win would be to kill the Emperor and let the whole thing fracture and that is a tall order.
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    I mean, we're almost certainly going to have to fight him anyways, simply because of what Fan is, let alone what he's going to teach his people to do… plus the imperium is an idiotic political structure that I *really* don't think can actually be fixed even in 30k even by the golden idiot, given that his massively debilitating tech problems could have been dealt with in a generation or three if he'd just sat down and written out some textbooks, but instead left it to C'tan corrupted cultists for… reasons?
    A Benevolent dictatorship doesn't actually work if the dictator can't dictate to half their empire after all. And the emperor is hardly benevolent.
    And, I will reiterate, he's also a moron. Like, his whole imperial web way project that ended up killing him? Pointless, if he wanted safe ftl, he had the Void dragon locked in a box, he could have just poked it with a stick until it coughed up what he needed to know. Buuut no, he can't be bothered to borrow the anti-warp species knowledge of ftl, gotta do it all himself cause he's space racist like that.
     
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