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Echoes of Creation (30k/Exalted)

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Degorium said:
The UN document didn't survive into the 10th Millennium never mind the 30th like we are now. Never mind the fact that it's not particularly impactful or well known right now and it's not going to get anymore either of those things as time goes on. There's only so often you can completely ignore the tenants of a document every time there's a famine, drought or a disease that you can consider it important or true nomads have to make really difficult decisions about the compositions and future of
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They have AK 47s, if that can survive so can a document. Or nikolas teslas skull.


The actual fundamental rights are not impactful, but the fact that humans have certian fundamental right is incredibly impactful. Like even most dictators don't just excute people these days because they have to pay lip service to human rights of any dissidents. Like calling not impactful is not accurate.

Individual rights are easier to ignore but things like right to life are very impactful.


Also its even more important for desert nomads, because ir signfies to them how far they have fallen.
 
As to attuning oneself to life in its myriad forms, as Hydaelyn ever implored, "Hear. Feel. Think."

Hear the song of creation's end. Feel the sorrow at hope's demise. Think and find your way in the darkness.

An echo of dearest Meteion's greeting. I wish to hear your words, share your feelings, know your thoughts. May we please be friends?
 
Acolyte said:
They have AK 47s, if that can survive so can a document. Or nikolas teslas skull.


The actual fundamental rights are not impactful, but the fact that humans have certian fundamental right is incredibly impactful. Like even most dictators don't just excute people these days because they have to pay lip service to human rights of any dissidents. Like calling not impactful is not accurate.

Individual rights are easier to ignore but things like right to life are very impactful.


Also its even more important for desert nomads, because ir signfies to them how far they have fallen.
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Okay do they actually have AK-47s or do they have assault rifles. Weapons just like any other tools serve a purpose that can be recycled and reused even long after the name has been scrubbed away I'm sure the people that came up with the first hoe design didn't call it that but it's definitely still in use.

Dictators pay lip service to the lives and human rights of the people they oppress simply because there will be outside consequences if they do not. The creation of the men of stone of temporal weaponry and planetary obliterators by Humanity kind of says all they need to about how much they gave a single fuck about the inherent rights of their fellow man nevermind all the gene editing and stable abhuman lines.
 
Degorium said:
Okay do they actually have AK-47s or do they have assault rifles. Weapons just like any other tools serve a purpose that can be recycled and reused even long after the name has been scrubbed away I'm sure the people that came up with the first hoe design didn't call it that but it's definitely still in use.

Dictators pay lip service to the lives and human rights of the people they oppress simply because there will be outside consequences if they do not. The creation of the men of stone of temporal weaponry and planetary obliterators by Humanity kind of says all they need to about how much they gave a single fuck about the inherent rights of their fellow man nevermind all the gene editing and stable abhuman lines.
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Degorium said:
Okay do they actually have AK-47s or do they have assault rifles. Weapons just like any other tools serve a purpose that can be recycled and reused even long after the name has been scrubbed away I'm sure the people that came up with the first hoe design didn't call it that but it's definitely still in use.

Dictators pay lip service to the lives and human rights of the people they oppress simply because there will be outside consequences if they do not. The creation of the men of stone of temporal weaponry and planetary obliterators by Humanity kind of says all they need to about how much they gave a single fuck about the inherent rights of their fellow man nevermind all the gene editing and stable abhuman lines.
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I mean you can look at its pictures. Its pretty much a space ak 47. And ideas are even easier to reinvent than tools.

Even those outside forces need pretext for any consequences. A universal declaration of rights is massive deal, because it applies to every humans.


The temporal weapons are basically space nukes, thats it. They have about the same effect on human rights, i.e. none.
 
Acolyte said:
I mean you can look at its pictures. Its pretty much a space ak 47. And ideas are even easier to reinvent than tools.

Even those outside forces need pretext for any consequences. A universal declaration of rights is massive deal, because it applies to every humans.


The temporal weapons are basically space nukes, thats it. They have about the same effect on human rights, i.e. none.
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No they are not especially not completely artificial ones like the inherent Rights of Man. Any invention that holds useful status can just be reapplied artificial Concepts like inherent rights of mankind arise in particular circumstances and if they are ever dropped they will never come back in that form again. There may be an echo or something similar that comes back later but that form of an idea is dead until a similar circumstance brings something back to the fore.

Never mind the fact that because planetary obliterator weapons are not just common there seems to be at least a hundred different versions of them that were developed during the age of mankind from virus bombs to Cyclon Torpedoes to actual planetary obliterator weapons of the golden age. Killing the entire population of a ship especially ships that you know have civilians on them or non-combatants definitely violates it The inherent rights idea that's where the temporal weapons violate that. Killing the entire population of planets don't really feel the need to explain why that also shits all over the idea of humans have inherent rights. The creations of the ogren, the catkin and the ratlings as well as the squats never mind whatever the fuck they were doing on Fenris (There are no wolves on Fenris) seems to suggest Humanity was doing what it always does in positions of unparalleled power whatever the fuck it wanted to do and completely artificial ideas like the inherent rights of your fellow man getting in the way of doing that so they definitely got shucked aside at some point.
 
[X] Will is the measure of all things, those whose heart burns with its terrible heat can do anything.

[X] Living is an excercise in violence; violence is the act of imposing one will upon the world. Reach the heaven through violence

[X] He who followed his own path inevitably craved it into the world.

[X] Build your sense of self akin to a tower invincible and impenetrable. Once you have built your tower, you must deconstruct it, brick by brick, stone by stone. You must do it meticulously and carefully, so that while you leave no physical trace of it remaining, your tower is still built in your mind and your heart, ready to spring anew at a moment's notice.

[X] Men must stand up for what they believe in. One cannot simply mouth their agreement and do nothing but watch. instead one must toil for its success, bleed in its defense, and be ready to give one life should one deem it necessary.

Well, I fully borrow some Kill Six Billion Demon philosophy with this one and choose none of the existing options.
 
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The Froggy Ninja said:
What precisely do these mean? Rough guess is to control your instincts for the first and coexist with nature (with a side dish of "Xenos are people too") for the second.
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I do not want to go too much into them as that is part of the fun but apply each of the beliefs in the lens of a Desert Tribal Chief who has a background as a Failed Shaman.

The first also applies to making deals with Spirits.

The second one does not necessarily apply to xenos as Fan Morgal has not really met any. The Ambulls are a "Native" part of the planet and not really something from "beyond the stars"
 
[X] Look beyond the obvious and discern a deeper meaning.
Critical thinking is vital in this galaxy.

[X] Remember the lessons of the past; apply them to the future.
Twofer of ancient technology and noticing people being stupid. Both very useful to acknowledge.

[X] Seek out the brightest embers and feed them until they become bonfires.
It's important to cultivate allies and henchmen, plus this has some enlightened self interest "the best way to benefit is to make sure others benefit too" aspects to it.

[X] Give freely of your knowledge, but wrap it up like a precious gift.
Fuck the AdMechs. If we develop space travel before the GC reaches us we need to subvert some local forge worlds before Mars can make them stupid.

[X] Ride the demon, do not let it ride you.
Of the 66% of problems not caused by chaos, 33% were caused by being impulsive idiots. Also being careful with spirit binding is important.
 
SouvikKundu said:
@Yzarc Is there any degree of Levels in Anathema or is it just a Mantle?
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Anathema is not a Mantle, title or a power. It is a state of being and a declaration.

All the Primarches can achieve it, Lorgar foremost among them even sighoug your intervention.

Especially since you granted him 10 Dots in True Faith background and essentially gave him an STC template for Faith.
 
Degorium said:
No they are not especially not completely artificial ones like the inherent Rights of Man. Any invention that holds useful status can just be reapplied artificial Concepts like inherent rights of mankind arise in particular circumstances and if they are ever dropped they will never come back in that form again. There may be an echo or something similar that comes back later but that form of an idea is dead until a similar circumstance brings something back to the fore.
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i disagree, I dont think the idea will ever be difficult to reinvent especially in a post information ages. Like we have had people literally reconstruct pagan religions that are thousands of years old. There are adaptations but the inherent ideas survive.

Degorium said:
Never mind the fact that because planetary obliterator weapons are not just common there seems to be at least a hundred different versions of them that were developed during the age of mankind from virus bombs to Cyclon Torpedoes to actual planetary obliterator weapons of the golden age. Killing the entire population of a ship especially ships that you know have civilians on them or non-combatants definitely violates it The inherent rights idea that's where the temporal weapons violate that. Killing the entire population of planets don't really feel the need to explain why that also shits all over the idea of humans have inherent rights. The creations of the ogren, the catkin and the ratlings as well as the squats never mind whatever the fuck they were doing on Fenris (There are no wolves on Fenris) seems to suggest Humanity was doing what it always does in positions of unparalleled power whatever the fuck it wanted to do and completely artificial ideas like the inherent rights of your fellow man getting in the way of doing that so they definitely got shucked aside at some point.
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Like i am genuinely not understanding your arguments. People didn't forget about human rights because wmds exist. This would a valid arguments if the wmds were being used indiscriminately all the time.

but from all accounts the age of dark tech was a more peaceful time, despite their more deadly weapons. Like the tragedy of 40k is we as a society devolved into more warlike state, it wouldnt make sense if it was always warlike.
 
Acolyte said:
i disagree, I dont think the idea will ever be difficult to reinvent especially in a post information ages. Like we have had people literally reconstruct pagan religions that are thousands of years old. There are adaptations but the inherent ideas survive.


Like i am genuinely not understanding your arguments. People didn't forget about human rights because wmds exist. This would a valid arguments if the wmds were being used indiscriminately all the time.

but from all accounts the age of dark tech was a more peaceful time, despite their more deadly weapons. Like the tragedy of 40k is we as a society devolved into more warlike state, it wouldnt make sense if it was always warlike.
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Okay let me pare it down quite a bit I don't believe that this desert dweller from a fallen civilization would have access or know or even care about a document that certainly failed before Humanity got into space properly never mind 25,000 years after that.

Peaceful times yeah more peaceful than there is only War there is no peace Among the Stars only the laughter of thirsting Gods. There are myriad reasons for Wars to be declared between human factions and we know there were factions because it was a federation.

People don't forget that human rights exist but that's a right to a clean and quick death, non-violation of guest rights and similar constructs. Humans have had rules for what their particular civilization or tribe has about treating prisoners and treating your fellow human beings since before the UN was a thing and after the fall of the Federation they would default back to whatever their personal one was the United Nations Declaration of Human Rights is fundamentally an artificial construct made after World Wars not a truth imposed on anything or easily visible.

A period of time being more peaceful than Millions upon billions die every single day in Wars they will never see the benefit of does not mean the times were completely peaceful. We can just see that from the weapon designs that we do get introduced to from that age of Technology. There were still Wars to fight even during the height of mankind whether that be against Men of gold or Orcs or anything else.

There just isn't a Ultra totalitarian regime that pedals a state religion on top of all of those things. The wars may have been fought more humanely or with better terms rather than complete genocide as the end goal but they were still Wars or Humanity was just like let's make Sun obliterator weapons just because we can which maybe they were.
 
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[X] Look beyond the obvious and discern a deeper meaning.

[X] Remember the lessons of the past; apply them to the future.

[X] Ride the demon, do not let it ride you.

[X] Be consistent in your rewards and punishments.

[X] Your rage must be cold, it must be reasoned and it must be legendary.
 
Yzarc said:
Anathema is not a Mantle, title or a power. It is a state of being and a declaration.

All the Primarches can achieve it, Lorgar foremost among them even sighoug your intervention.

Especially since you granted him 10 Dots in True Faith background and essentially gave him an STC template for Faith.
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Will True Faith background have any passive effect on his Marines as well?
 
[X] Look beyond the obvious and discern a deeper meaning.

[X] Remember the lessons of the past; apply them to the future.

[X] Be consistent in your rewards and punishments.

[X] Seek out the brightest embers and feed them until they become bonfires.

[X] Give freely of your knowledge, but wrap it up like a precious gift.
 
[X] Look beyond the obvious and discern a deeper meaning.

[X] Remember the lessons of the past; apply them to the future.

[X] Be consistent in your rewards and punishments.

[X] Seek out the brightest embers and feed them until they become bonfires.

[X] Give freely of your knowledge, but wrap it up like a precious gift.
 
Degorium said:
Okay let me pare it down quite a bit I don't believe that this desert dweller from a fallen civilization would have access or know or even care about a document that certainly failed before Humanity got into space properly never mind 25,000 years after that
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Here is my counter point. The world spirit put it there. To try and protect people from chaos influence. Like if chaos can stash demon grimoires somone can leave behind the declaration of human rights.
Degorium said:
People don't forget that human rights exist but that's a right to a clean and quick death, non-violation of guest rights and similar constructs. Humans have had rules for what their particular civilization or tribe has about treating prisoners and treating your fellow human beings since before the UN was a thing and after the fall of the Federation they would default back to whatever their personal one was the United Nations Declaration of Human Rights is fundamentally an artificial construct made after World Wars not a truth imposed on anything or easily visible
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You seems to be misunderstanding my point. The actual enumeration of the particular rights isn't what is important. It is the fact every human has them and they are unalienable no matter what is the important part.
Degorium said:
There just isn't a Ultra totalitarian regime that pedals a state religion on top of all of those things. The wars may have been fought more humanely or with better terms rather than complete genocide as the end goal but they were still Wars or Humanity was just like let's make Sun obliterator weapons just because we can which maybe they were.
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Yes, that is what i hope to achieve with that write in.


Also guys comeon, i don't want to be the guy pinging people to change votes but comeone, we can induce real tangible change for the better in the universe.
 
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[x] Look beyond the obvious and discern a deeper meaning.
[x] Seek out the brightest embers and feed them until they become bonfires.
[x] Give freely of your knowledge, but wrap it up like a precious gift.
[x] Remember the lessons of the past; apply them to the future.
[x] Be consistent in your rewards and punishments.

Seek truth, nurture talent, and be reasonable.
 
[X] Be consistent in your rewards and punishments.

[X] Look beyond the obvious and discern a deeper meaning.


[X] Remember the lessons of the past; apply them to the future.


[X] Ride the demon, do not let it ride you

[X] Your rage must be cold, it must be reasoned and it must be legendary.
 
[X] Be consistent in your rewards and punishments.
[X] Look beyond the obvious and discern a deeper meaning.
[X] Remember the lessons of the past; apply them to the future.
[X] Ride the demon, do not let it ride you.
[X] Give freely of your knowledge, but wrap it up like a precious gift.
 
[X] Look beyond the obvious and discern a deeper meaning.
[X] Remember the lessons of the past; apply them to the future.
[X] Ride the demon, do not let it ride you.
[X] Be consistent in your rewards and punishments.
[X] Your rage must be cold, it must be reasoned and it must be legendary.
 
Acolyte said:
Here is my counter point. The world spirit put it there. To try and protect people from chaos influence. Like if chaos can stash demon grimoires somone can leave behind the declaration of human rights.

You seems to be misunderstanding my point. The actual enumeration of the particular rights isn't what is important. It is the fact every human has them and they are unalienable no matter what is the important part.

Yes, that is what i hope to achieve with that write in.


Also guys comeon, i don't want to be the guy pinging people to change votes but comeone, we can induce real tangible change for the better in the universe.
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To be frank I do kind of agree with what you're going for if you had something like

People should be treated with a base level of dignity.
Or
You should treat people with the respect you would want be treated with whether that be in war or in peace.

That particular piece of documentation or that particular wording of a possible moral for our character a nomadic leader of a desert dwelling people whos civilization fell thousands of years ago is just a bridge too far from me personally.
 
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