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Semper Ad Meliora (Code Geass/Britannian Royalty Quest)

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[X] Accept. Kallen may return to Japan and spend this year at her leisure.

[X] Plan A Better China
[X] Plan: Imperial Alliance & Mutual Benefits
[X] Plan A Better China(as Second Husband)
[X] Plan: Research and Productivity for A Better China

[X] Plan: Left Hand of the Empress

Reluctantly adding the the Left Hand of the Empress to my approval voting. Mostly because the plan that involves marrying the cousin is surprisingly gaining track. And I need to sleep (1AM here). If the vote will end before I wake up I don't want to wake up to the worst plan in my opinion winning that has absolutely nothing I want.

Mostly because Slayer stated that marrying the cousin is either a path to minimal political power (being the head of a branch imperial family) or full power if Lihua has an "accident". The Japanese just tried the marry the cousin as a path to power play and we stopped them. There will be suspicions that we will try the same path.
 
Resonant said:
Where did it say it was just a minority of figures? The quote was asking about a Chinese citizen perspective which implies the general populace at large, especially when you consider the unprecedented nature of a Chinese Empress + Foreign Husband against the orthodox culture, the backlash would be a lot higher than limited covert ops done by the Praetorians. Also, I'm not sure why you think we can use the Research Foundation reward to build it in Australia, when it specifically says "on Chinese soil" so it will have to be built on mainland China anyways.
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What makes you think covert ops will be limited if we press all the buttons Praetorians have? Certainly they will be far more hostile than Chinese populace amongst whom Lelouch is super popular.
 
Chapterstyx said:
Have we had a picture of current Lihua? could be a thing where people are still even if subconsciously picturing canon way younger Lihua which is fairly squicking them out but are ok with the OC since hasn't got any canon preconceptions for her.
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Her cousin is around her same age and so identical to her that was used as a body double... So the squick factor should apply to her too...
 
IBulit said:
What makes you think covert ops will be limited if we press all the buttons Praetorians have? Certainly they will be far more hostile than Chinese populace amongst whom Lelouch is super popular.
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"It will also likely push actions against Britannia into more covert realms than they already are." is what WoG has said on the matter.

Lelouch is currently popular amongst the Chinese populace as a foreign hero, not the Emperor-Consort who would sire the next half-foreign ruler of China. And as we all know, the Chinese populace is well-known for their "tolerance" and "lack of racial bias." /s
 
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[X] Plan: Left Hand of the Empress
[X] Plan Backdoor to Everything
[X] Plan: Imperial Alliance & Mutual Benefits
[X] Plan A Better China(as Second Husband)
[X] Plan: Research and Productivity for A Better China
 
Fanhunter696 said:
But why the hell people is rejecting the true Lihua, but are perfectly fine with marrying wish.com Lihua? We get all the headaches of marrying Lihua and much lesser benefits
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No, we get much less headaches for marrying the cousin instead of Lihua. There's a bunch of good reasons why our sister prefers we marry the cousin just because of the shear amount the less problems it causes.
 
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Resonant said:
It will also likely push actions against Britannia into more covert realms than they already are." is what WoG has said on the matter.
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Yes, that's why I am asking why do you think covert ops will be limitef when WoG states the opposite.


Resonant said:
Lelouch is currently popular amongst the Chinese populace as a foreign hero, not the Emperor-Consort who would sire the next half-foreign ruler of China. And as we all know, the Chinese populace is well-known for their tolerance and lack of racial bias. /s
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Nothing says one can't turn into another. By that logic we shouldn't marry Lihua at all, because woman having reverse harem is against Chinese norms of morality.
 
Putting so much prominence on the nature of our marriage to Lihua is the biggest obstacle to uniting behind a plan that sees us marry her. We should really stop looking for reasons to be particular about the marriage, and focus on marrying lihua at all.
Ando Owen said:
Since the Code Geass canon was tossed aside with Marianne in good shape, Lelouch and Nunnally in Britannia, and Charles actually paying to potentially big threats like the ancient psychic stuff, I don't have much of a reason to dislike him. I like him here in fact. I don't mind doing good work for him.

The Britannian succession is not that much of an issue with Euphemia above us in the list, along with many others, and if the whole thing implodes, we won't really care about being in or out of the succession.
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While your paying attention, consider approval voting for plan a better china? Left hand raises tensions even more, with far worse enemies than us being first consort. With that in mind the important thing is that a vote to marry Lihua at all wins.
Resonant said:
Where did it say it was just a minority of figures? The quote was asking about a Chinese citizen perspective which implies the general populace at large, especially when you consider the unprecedented nature of a Chinese Empress + Foreign Husband against the orthodox culture, the backlash would be a lot higher than limited covert ops done by the Praetorians. Also, I'm not sure why you think we can use the Research Foundation reward to build it in Australia, when it specifically says "on Chinese soil" so it will have to be built on mainland China anyways.
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Given our ninja's security and life quality of Lihua & Lelouch babies isn't really under threat. As first consort, their going to have a sheltered upbringing in the palace and it's city either way. Second consort children aren't going to be as protected, sheltered, and Praetoreans remain a much greater threat.

There is a difference between building up a ministry of Piety to spread psionic teaching and tech in a way which benefits china, and an Isolated research facility in the sichuan mountains, particularly if lelouch limits the foundation to Rocket science and continues to conduct Jaeger research in new caledonia, which is the logical choice for security purposes.
Chapterstyx said:
Have we had a picture of current Lihua? could be a thing where people are still even if subconsciously picturing canon way younger Lihua which is fairly squicking them out but are ok with the OC since hasn't got any canon preconceptions for her.
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Here. E

Slayer Anderson said:
Then she marched in and Nunnally launched herself to her feet without a second thought.

​

Nunnally reflexively swallowed as the white-haired, red-eyed young woman's gaze pinned her directly, her entire air that of a commanding ruler. There was a power and weight to the way she held herself that spoke of someone who did not expect obedience, but demanded it.
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I'm sure there is a number of reasons, probably most of them not particularly deep or well thought out, but Lihua is 18, and if it was squick, than there is the whole a dozen years older than her Xingke issue to fuss about.
 
Yeah talking more subconscious Squick, like even now with Kallen being older I still picture her as she is in canon even tho obviously she probably looks different. So could see some ppl just thinking "romancing Lihua?" and just not being able to separate her from canon even if they know she is different. Of course this isn't detracting to people voting otherwise for different reasons just throwing my thoughts in the ring.
 
I honestly don't understand the hysteria behind the Praetorian boogeyman... do people think the OSI/Directorate are lame ducks that can't/won't be countering and foiling their plots? Especially if we give Charles the favor and advancing psionic interests?

IBulit said:
Nothing says one can't turn into another. By that logic we shouldn't marry Lihua at all, because woman having reverse harem is against Chinese norms of morality.
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Lelouch siring the next ruler of China as First Husband is the main sticking point that will never go away as the label of "foreign takeover" will always haunt them, and I don't see how you can counter that. Marrying Lihua but not automatically siring the next heir as Second Husband is less severe.
 
Shaper47 said:
No, we get much less headaches for marrying the cousin instead of Lihua. There's a bunch of good reasons why our sister prefers we marry the cousin just because of the shear amount the less problems it causes.
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Euphemia doesn't have a preference. She is aware their would be much less political upheaval involved in marrying Meihua, but Lelouch has more than earned his support with his flight to Sayoko's side in turn ten.

All of which is very much undone do the treaty being a much stronger escalation of tensions with Europe which increases Praetorian aggression. Whatever political issues are perceived to be sidestepped by marrying Meihua instead, are largely replaced issues created by treaty and our participation in a piety ministry in china.
Resonant said:
I honestly don't understand the hysteria behind the Praetorian boogeyman... do people think the OSI/Directorate are lame ducks that can't/won't be countering and foiling their plots? Especially if we give Charles the favor and advancing psionic interests?
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Umm, their horrific, compounding failure last turn? The fact that they have taken casualties and will be spread yet thinner covering their increased responsibilities with the new site they need to guard? Remember the impressive assassination attempt they carried out during the conference, while they were divided in opinion over us because we stopped new heaven? Treaty escalates the pace of their attack and piety how much of a priority we are. It's an increased difficulty to survive and we should take that seriously.
 
Resonant said:
I honestly don't understand the hysteria behind the Praetorian boogeyman... do people think the OSI/Directorate are lame ducks that can't/won't be countering and foiling their plots? Especially if we give Charles the favor and advancing psionic interests?


Lelouch siring the next ruler of China as First Husband is the main sticking point that will never go away as the label of "foreign takeover" will always haunt them, and I don't see how you can counter that. Marrying Lihua but not automatically siring the next heir as Second Husband is less severe.
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And? Even if that becomes an issue it would be far away. At least going first ensures there will be a child, whereas as a second husband that's a big maybe.

Resonant said:
I honestly don't understand the hysteria behind the Praetorian boogeyman... do people think the OSI/Directorate are lame ducks that can't/won't be countering and foiling their plots? Especially if we give Charles the favor and advancing psionic interests?
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Yes. Especially considering recent losses. Especially considering increased amount of work. Especially considering increased covert hostilities should treaty go through.
 
IBulit said:
And? Even if that becomes an issue it would be far away. At least going first ensures there will be a child, whereas as a second husband that's a big maybe.
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Why do you think it would be an issue far away instead of ever-present one as everyone is reminded that any sired children will be the next rulers of China - in fact any detractors would be incentivized to assassinate Lelouch before a child can be born.
 
Why are so many people voting to be first consort instead of second? It offers very few benefits over the other and comes with a whole lot of extra baggage such as eating up time for additional ceremonial and diplomatic duties (when time is already one of the things we most heavily lack and will only become more so in the future), pissing off Lihua and Li Xingke, causing heavier backlash from both external powers and the Chinese public due to the concern that Britannia is trying to turn China into a puppet state, etc.

As far as I'm aware of the only real benefits that first over second offers is more prestige and that Lelouch's child with Lihua would be the Royal heir of China. (Remember the position of husband, regardless of it's first or second, only makes one a consort. No matter what we're not going to be emperor of China - that's Lihua)
 
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Resonant said:
Why do you think it would be an issue far away instead of ever-present one as everyone is reminded that any sired children will be the next rulers of China - in fact any detractors would be incentivized to assassinate Lelouch before a child can be born.
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Because in the wake of upheaval and reform it will take time before succession becomes a hot button issue. Doubly so for something as dicy as assassination of Lelouch. I imagine Meihua's marriage will be a far likelier avenue of "resistance" as Racists will decide to get what they want through her.

odin lowe said:
Why are so many people voting to be first consort instead of second? It offers very few benefits over the other and comes with a whole lot of extra baggage such as eating up time for additional ceremonial and diplomatic duties (when time is already one of the things we most heavily lack and will only become more so in the future), pissing off Lihua and Li Xingke, causing heavier backlash from both external powers and the Chinese public due to the concern the Britannia is trying to turn China into a puppet state, etc.

As far as I'm aware of the only real benefits that first over second offers is more prestige and that Lelouch's child with Lihua would be the Royal heir of China. (Remember the position of husband, regardless of it's first or second, only makes one a consort. No matter what we're not going to be emperor of China - that's Lihua)
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Partially I imagine because all the other leading plans that have second husband option also skip over stewardship in favour of piety.

Partially because of prestige and likelier more interactions with an interesting character rather than just a political marriage.

Partially because being first husband all but guarantees there will be at least one child produced. The same can't be said for second husband option.
 
odin lowe said:
Why are so many people voting to be first consort instead of second? It offers very few benefits over the other and comes with a whole lot of extra baggage such as eating up time for additional ceremonial and diplomatic duties (when time is already one of the things we most heavily lack and will only become more so in the future), pissing off Lihua and Li Xingke, causing heavier backlash from both external powers and the Chinese public due to the concern the Britannia is trying to turn China into a puppet state, etc.

As far as I'm aware of the only real benefits that first over second offers is more prestige and that Lelouch's child with Lihua would be the Royal heir of China. (Remember the position of husband, regardless of it's first or second, only makes one a consort. No matter what we're not going to be emperor of China - that's Lihua)
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Marriage to The Empress for me is non negotiable second consort would be preferable but the plan that has it also has piety as a minster position which I feel is wasted when stewardship is much better those two choices are the main sticking points for me and since there are no plans with second consort and stewardship that are going to win I might as well choose them over the absolute travesty that is no Imperil marriage at all.

[X] Plan: Left Hand of the Empress
[X] Plan A Better China(as Second Husband)
[X] Plan A Better China
 
odin lowe said:
Why are so many people voting to be first consort instead of second? It offers very few benefits over the other and comes with a whole lot of extra baggage such as eating up time for additional ceremonial and diplomatic duties (when time is already one of the things we most heavily lack and will only become more so in the future), pissing off Lihua and Li Xingke, causing heavier backlash from both external powers and the Chinese public due to the concern that Britannia is trying to turn China into a puppet state, etc.

As far as I'm aware of the only real benefits that first over second offers is more prestige and that Lelouch's child with Lihua would be the Royal heir of China. (Remember the position of husband, regardless of it's first or second, only makes one a consort. No matter what we're not going to be emperor of China - that's Lihua)
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Because their is more to the vote than the damn marriage. The combination of treaty plus piety position increases Praetorian espionage attack in general while making us a higher priority target.

There are significant benefits to being first consort, it's not an insignificant difference, particularly given Lihua is the first empress in 1500 years.

But part of it is also that some people are just pushing to marry Meihua because it's less involvement with China, which their no longer as interested in with the in quest connection to the directorate becoming available through homecomings crit.
Slayer Anderson said:
Plan Alliance without Imperial Marriage
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What I think is happening here, is a plan to cosy up to charles and directorate as much as possible between all of his favors and control of chinese piety ministry, while avoiding getting drawn into chinese politics as much as possible, but still marrying Meihua just incase having a stake in the chinese succession to some degree is a usefull tool to cosy up to Charles and the directorate in the future.
Slayer Anderson said:
Plan: Left Hand of the Empress
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Sort of the same as the above with a willingness to get involved with chinese politics in hopes for more rewards, with a side of wanting a marriage but being opposed to first consort.
Slayer Anderson said:
Plan A Better China
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The China and Australia first vote. Does the minimum required for happy Charles and directorate while focusing on things that benefit lelouch, his aims in Australia longterm, while putting him in a position to support China's recovery from the war and future prosperity, both of which are Lihua's dream for them immediate futures.
 
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IBulit said:
Partially I imagine because all the other leading plans that have second husband option also skip over stewardship in favour of piety.

Partially because of prestige and likelier more interactions with an interesting character rather than just a political marriage.

Partially because being first husband all but guarantees there will be at least one child produced. The same can't be said for second husband option.
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Piety advisor is the superior choice though? While being stewardship advisor seems like it would grant more material benefits it would have way too many demands for what actions we need to do which would greatly restrict any ability to pursue our own projects or goals using that position and would put more demands on our own time and actions as well to keep up with it. Especially for the next few years as we're winding down the civil war and in the immediate aftermath of it.

Piety advisor though is unimportant enough to China in general and the civil war\aftermath in specific that we can likely do as little or as much as we want with it and take almost whatever actions we want as long as we prove at least somewhat useful to China (and it's not like piety projects aren't one of, if not the, major focus of everything we're doing in addition to being something extremely important to both Charles and Schneizel.)

To be honest the prestige of first over second consort is likely to provide very little mechanical benefit. And as far as interactions with interesting characters go, the only characters I'm aware of that would really matter for would be the empress, her cousin, and Xingke which we'd likely have to spend most of that time just trying to recover from their negative opinions of us for forcing ourselves into the position of first consort and recover the positive opinion we would instead get for choosing second.

Being guaranteed that our child would be heir would be the one real major benefit to first consort, but like I said above, I just don't really see how that outweighs all the negatives.

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Randino Treviani said:
Because their is more to the vote than the damn marriage. The combination of treaty plus piety position increases Praetorian espionage attack in general while making us a higher priority target
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That's a not insignificant point that, admittedly, I'd not considered. However, I'd argue that over the next few years or so we're almost certainly going to begin to draw their attention anyway and while it is likely to make us a higher priority target for the praetorians it would also put us in a good position to draw them into the public eye and to target them ourselves.

Further, this is more of an argument for having a runoff vote on what marriage option should be taken rather than an argument in favor of first consort being a superior choice over second consort.
 
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