[X] Plan DemCent Revolutionary Pragmatism
-[X] [INDOCHINA] Agree to the Treaty, but Reject the New Provisions.
-[X] [VNQPH] Agree to the formation of the new organization, but withhold resources.
-[X] [FOREIGN] The Empire of Germany
-[X] [FOREIGN] The Empire of Japan
-[X] KMT - Revolutionary Group
Recasting my vote then, now openly rejecting the provisions
"Plan DemCent Revolutionary Pragmatism" differs from "Plan As Agreed upon by DemCent" by one point.
"Plan Revolutionary Pragmatism v2 is different" by two points. Unpleasant, but not critical.
The only troublemakers are "Plan Instringent Internationalism", but considering the number of people who voted for the Revolutionary Group in absolute numbers, this is about 20 people. A loud minority that can be neglected.
To put it in a different perspective that's 25% of the plan that's different and 50% of the plan that's different. Meanwhile the last group has a plan that is 75% different. It's just kind of a giant mess for the Revolutionary Group and I'm wary of anything that could shave away at our increasingly narrow majority in the legislature.
But really I'm expecting a shakeup soon of the KMT internal factions. The way the whip mechanics work is as long as KMT mainline votes as a bloc, which we will because of democratic centralism, the revolutionary group's often divided votes can easily be ignored. Don't forget the rev group are basically the remnants of three factions, so people's voting preferences will differ.
Anyways we're likely to see a shakeup with the Zhili integration. The votes are also turning out how I thought they would initially. Strong mainline support for one plan. Split rev group vote and a united independent vote with the mainline.
I'm going to guess right now that this fractured vote is going to end up doing bad things to the various KMT factions stability except for the independents. The plurality party whip system does mean that we're not going to end up in a deadlock at least in theory, but there will be consequences for how split the votes have been. Please consider switching your votes for [] Plan As Agreed upon by DemCent, Revolutionary so that the revolutionary group doesn't immediately implode?
I think this is baseless fearmongering trying to advance your preffered plan.
It is the whole point of Democratic Centralism to have a spirited debate where all viewpoints can be brought forth and examined before narrowing on a course of action as a party.
I think this is baseless fearmongering trying to advance your preffered plan.
It is the whole point of Democratic Centralism to have a spirited debate where all viewpoints can be brought forth and examined before narrowing on a course of action as a party.
I should note that the so-called "Democratic Centralism" is mostly a player-side thing, as irp it's viewed as a mostly informal grassroots effort by the party membership whilst the party whip system is viewed as the actual formal system of unified voting. Party members can still voice their opposition to the party line's vote, but currently aren't actively revolting against it due to the favourability of having a stable party to rule as opposed to the chaos of the initial years.
Demcent is still a fairly foreign concept in comparison to the more long-lived whip system globally, so you'll need to prove it's viability for at least a few votes before it's actually seriously considered as party policy.
I should note that the so-called "Democratic Centralism" is mostly a player-side thing, as irp it's viewed as a mostly informal grassroots effort by the party membership whilst the party whip system is viewed as the actual formal system of unified voting. Party members can still voice their opposition to the party line's vote, but currently aren't actively revolting against it due to the favourability of having a stable party to rule as opposed to the chaos of the initial years.
Demcent is still a fairly foreign concept in comparison to the more long-lived whip system globally, so you'll need to prove it's viability for at least a few votes before it's actually seriously considered as party policy.
wait, whats the difference between the party whip and demcent systems???
what good are wang and song even if all they do is undemocraticly restrict options instead of doing their job of building the party line and carrying it out
Demcent is player larp, might become an actual thing if we larp hard enough. The whip mechanics are how the actual vote is passed.
Wang isn't whip and it's really just Song's whip mechanics. As long as a vote has plurality that vote becomes what the KMT votes as a whole.
Looking on the bright side, at least when the vote concludes the KMT as a whole won't squander their majority and get votes passed.
I think the whole focus on making everyone vote the same now that we have the whip mechanics is a bit of an overcorrection. We should only really be pushing to change votes when we can't get a plurality. Forcing complete party loyalty might just cause factions to fracture and split from the KMT because our differences don't matter, or however Nacht decided to interpret our hyper focus on party unity.
Demcent is player larp, might become an actual thing if we larp hard enough. The whip mechanics are how the actual vote is passed.
Wang isn't whip and it's really just Song's whip mechanics. As long as a vote has plurality that vote becomes what the KMT votes as a whole.
Looking on the bright side, at least when the vote concludes the KMT as a whole won't squander their majority and get votes passed.
I think the whole focus on making everyone vote the same now that we have the whip mechanics is a bit of an overcorrection. We should only really be pushing to change votes when we can't get a plurality. Forcing complete party loyalty might just cause factions to fracture and split from the KMT because our differences don't matter, or however Nacht decided to interpret our hyper focus on party unity.
Beats me. I just focus on the party whip mechanics, that's what actually matters to how the vote is concluded. The DemCent larp is fun, it might have gone a bit too far though. Or not enough, your pick.
What I do know is that both are attempts at making sure President Sun and Vice President/Marshal Huang don't decide to manage the whole democracy thing more directly.
[X] Plan As Agreed upon by DemCent, Revolutionary
-[X] [INDOCHINA] Agree to the Treaty, but Reject the New Provisions.
-[X] [VNQPH] Agree to the formation of the new organization, but withhold resources.
-[X] [FOREIGN] The Empire of Germany
-[X] [FOREIGN] The Union of American Socialist Republics
-[X] KMT - Revolutionary Group
[X] Plan DemCent Revolutionary Pragmatism
-[X] [INDOCHINA] Agree to the Treaty, but Reject the New Provisions.
-[X] [VNQPH] Agree to the formation of the new organization, but withhold resources.
-[X] [FOREIGN] The Empire of Germany
-[X] [FOREIGN] The Empire of Japan
-[X] KMT - Revolutionary Group
I'm also recasting, I'm just hoping we can keep a consistent position on our goals going forward, we've been rubber banding too much which has undermined our reliability somewhat.
[X] Plan As Agreed upon by DemCent, Revolutionary
-[X] [INDOCHINA] Agree to the Treaty, but Reject the New Provisions.
-[X] [VNQPH] Agree to the formation of the new organization, but withhold resources.
-[X] [FOREIGN] The Empire of Germany
-[X] [FOREIGN] The Union of American Socialist Republics
-[X] KMT - Revolutionary Group
It would be money well spent however. People forget that Maoist China was actually seen as a Great Liberator, with enough international leverage to be a third leg to the SU and USA despite being much poorer. Because people believed that the CPC meant what they said and walked the walk, and indeed they did.
It wasn't until Deng came to power and destroyed all those connections and institutions as part of the Deal with the West and the South-East Asian Countries that they lost that prestige.
Yeah but Mao also did land reform the moment he won the civil war instead of letting millions of serfs languish as bound peasants because it wasn't high enough on his priority list so y'know...
[X] Plan Instringent Internationalism
-[X] [INDOCHINA] Reject the Treaty. (Mainline CANNOT vote for this option)
-[X] [VNQPH] Give Phan all that he needs. (Mainline CANNOT vote for this option)
-[X] [FOREIGN] The United People's Union of Great Britain and Ireland
-[X] [FOREIGN] The Union of American Socialist Republics
-[X] KMT - Revolutionary Group
Scheduled vote count started by nachtingale on Mar 22, 2024 at 11:34 PM, finished with 66 posts and 34 votes.
[X] Plan As Agreed upon by DemCent
-[X] [INDOCHINA] Agree to the Treaty, but Reject the New Provisions.
-[X] [VNQPH] Agree to the formation of the new organization, but withhold resources.
-[X] [FOREIGN] The Empire of Germany
-[X] [FOREIGN] The Union of American Socialist Republics -[X]KMT - Mainline
[X] Plan Instringent Internationalism
-[X] [INDOCHINA] Reject the Treaty. (Mainline CANNOT vote for this option)
-[X] [VNQPH] Give Phan all that he needs. (Mainline CANNOT vote for this option)
-[X] [FOREIGN] The United People's Union of Great Britain and Ireland
-[X] [FOREIGN] The Union of American Socialist Republics
-[X] KMT - Revolutionary Group
[X] Plan As Agreed upon by DemCent, Revolutionary
-[X] [INDOCHINA] Agree to the Treaty, but Reject the New Provisions.
-[X] [VNQPH] Agree to the formation of the new organization, but withhold resources.
-[X] [FOREIGN] The Empire of Germany
-[X] [FOREIGN] The Union of American Socialist Republics
-[X] KMT - Revolutionary Group
[X] Plan DemCent Revolutionary Pragmatism
-[X] [INDOCHINA] Agree to the Treaty, but Reject the New Provisions.
-[X] [VNQPH] Agree to the formation of the new organization, but withhold resources.
-[X] [FOREIGN] The Empire of Germany
-[X] [FOREIGN] The Empire of Japan
-[X] KMT - Revolutionary Group
[X] Plan Revolutionary Pragmatism v2
-[X] [INDOCHINA] Agree to the Treaty, but Reject the New Provisions in Secret.
-[X] [VNQPH] Agree to the formation of the new organization, but withhold resources.
-[X] [FOREIGN] The Empire of Germany
-[X] [FOREIGN] The Empire of Japan
-[X] KMT - Revolutionary Group
[X] Plan Revolutionary Pragmatism v2
-[X] [INDOCHINA] Agree to the Treaty, but Reject the New Provisions in Secret.
-[X] [VNQPH] Agree to the formation of the new organization, but withhold resources.
-[X] [FOREIGN] The Empire of Germany
-[X] [FOREIGN] The Empire of Japan
[X] KMT - Mainline
[X] Plan Instringent Internationalism
-[X] [INDOCHINA] Reject the Treaty. (Mainline CANNOT vote for this option)
-[X] [VNQPH] Give Phan all that he needs. (Mainline CANNOT vote for this option)
-[X] [FOREIGN] The United People's Union of Great Britain and Ireland
-[X] [FOREIGN] The Union of American Socialist Republics
-[X] KMT - Revolutionary Group
[X] Plan As Agreed upon by DemCent, Independent
-[X] [INDOCHINA] Agree to the Treaty, but Reject the New Provisions.
-[X] [VNQPH] Agree to the formation of the new organization, but withhold resources.
-[X] [FOREIGN] The Empire of Germany
-[X] [FOREIGN] The Union of American Socialist Republics
-[X]KMT - Independents
[X] Plan As Agreed upon by DemCent
-[X] [INDOCHINA] Agree to the Treaty, but Reject the New Provisions.
-[X] [VNQPH] Agree to the formation of the new organization, but withhold resources.
-[X] [FOREIGN] The Empire of Germany
-[X] [FOREIGN] The Union of American Socialist Republics -[X]KMT - Mainline
[X] Plan Revolutionary w/ America
-[X] [INDOCHINA] Agree to the Treaty, but Reject the New Provisions in Secret.
-[X] [VNQPH] Agree to the formation of the new organization, but withhold resources.
-[X] [FOREIGN] The Empire of Germany
-[X] [FOREIGN] The Union of American Socialist Republics
-[X] KMT - Revolutionary Group
[X] Plan: Trust But Verify
-[X] [INDOCHINA] Agree to the Treaty, but Reject the New Provisions.
-[X] [VNQPH] Agree to the formation of the new organization, but withhold resources. -[X] [FOREIGN] The Empire of Brazil
-[X] [FOREIGN] The Union of American Socialist Republics -[X]KMT - Mainline
[X] Plan As Agreed upon by DemCent, Revolutionary
-[X] [INDOCHINA] Agree to the Treaty, but Reject the New Provisions.
-[X] [VNQPH] Agree to the formation of the new organization, but withhold resources.
-[X] [FOREIGN] The Empire of Germany
-[X] [FOREIGN] The Union of American Socialist Republics
-[X] KMT - Revolutionary Group
[X] Plan: Trust But Verify
-[X] [INDOCHINA] Agree to the Treaty, but Reject the New Provisions.
-[X] [VNQPH] Agree to the formation of the new organization, but withhold resources. -[X] [FOREIGN] The Empire of Brazil
-[X] [FOREIGN] The Union of American Socialist Republics -[X]KMT - Mainline
Let's hope that the strategy of fomenting rebellion against France while giving it our name but no real support and simultaneously spurning Japan won't come back to bite us.
Let's hope that the strategy of fomenting rebellion against France while giving it our name but no real support and simultaneously spurning Japan won't come back to bite us.
KMT Internal Votes:
Legislature Votes: [X] [INDOCHINA] Agree to the Treaty, but Reject the New Provisions.
[X] [VNQPH] Agree to the Formation of the New Organization, but Withhold Resources.
[X] [FOREIGN] The Empire of Germany.
[X] [FOREIGN] The Union of American Socialist Republics.
"The Empire can ill afford another foreign distraction at this time with the newfound crisis in Spain,
it is therefor the opinion of the current government that the going-ons of the Orient are to be downplayed in any way feasible..."
- Letter from Foreign Minister Gaston Doumergue to the Indochinese Administration.
"Our revolutionary comrades in China place little confidence in the success of the Vietnamese struggle,
they see it as little more than an additional burden to their own struggle. Our cause must be rapidly intensified..."
- Phan Bội Châu's Diary.
The visit by the Republic's diplomats into the heartland of French Indochina could have best be described as uncomfortable at minimum and downright hostile in it's most contentious moments. It was no secret to either the republican Lanzhou government nor the colonialist regime in Saigon that there existed little love between the two states, and indeed many times disparaging comments would be made from one side to the other, the Republican delegates typically on the imperial nature of the French presence and the French in their typical orientalist arrogance, with the handful of interpreters and middle-men Vietnamese stuck uncomfortably in the middle of the two confrontational groups of people.
Thankfully, however, the group would be able to hammer out an agreement palatable to both sides by the time March rolled around, pressure mounting especially on the French side for a resolution to be reached with the Lanzhou government with minimal costs, much of it initiated by direct intervention from the government in Paris due to pressing needs elsewhere. The rejection of the new provisions would be met with muted pushback from the French as a result, more concerned with ensuring the security of their colonial borders above anything else.
On the other side of the equation, the formation of the Tridemist VNQPH organization in Indochina would be granted the go-ahead by the KMT government, though funding would be strictly limited to the bare minimum for the Vietnamese revolutionaries. This would be much cause of frustration for the young revolutionaries, forced to limit the scope of their activities to more frugal means of gathering support amongst the colonized peoples of Vietnam. Meetings with the charismatic Wang Zhaoming would manage to assuage fears of the Vietnamese organization being viewed as a side-project by the Lanzhou government, though without NBIS support, news from them is expected to occur at a slow pace.
Thankfully, for once, no further disputes would be pursued in either case, all parties begrudgingly satisfied with the results at minimum.
[Sino-French Border Stabilized, Relations Improved Slightly.]
[VNQPH Formed, Cordial Opinion of the KMT.]
The choice to invest additional attention to the foreign missions in Germany and America simultaneously would prove... interesting in terms of foreign perception. The choice to put one foot in either side of the growing tensions between the socialist and imperialist nations of the world would be noted with significant interest, denying either side from decrying the Lanzhou government as either a socialist puppet nor an imperialist patsy.
The Germans would welcome the increased presence of the Lanzhou government in Frankfurt, maintaining the unique relationship possessed between the two states. Requests for more aid would be readily agreed upon by the German government, offering to open up further lines of credit for the Republic's reconstruction and further economic cooperation between the two states. This would prove to be a massive boon to the struggling and miniscule Republican economy, with the Germans maintaining such agreements until no longer feasible. Other such requests for the amendment of the export ratios would be easily shrugged off by the Germans.
Furthermore, the move would serve to cement the beginnings of a budding relationship between the Republic and America once more, the KMT having always possessed much admiration for the American democracy, and Debs' sympathy to anti-imperial causes. However, relations would still have a long way to go before they were anywhere close to friends diplomatically. Notably, the matter of Sinophobic sentiments would persist even into the socialist administration, with much of the West Coast approving still of the continuation of some form of the Chinese Exclusion Act.
The Zhili Republican Front would continue to make incessant noises regarding this particular issue, as tensions continue to persist with our overseas brethren and their American counterparts. The Americans would be able to offer little in terms of aid for the Republic in this present time, with their own massive reconstruction efforts still underway, but the expansion of diplomatic ties is welcome for future endeavors all the same.
[Gain Large German Investments, +50 Economic Development per Turn until Level III.]
[Gain Minor American Trade, +10 Economic Development per Turn.]
Reconstruction
Taiping Bandits Raiding a Farm in Sichuan.
The pain and suffering of the West China War would not be a burden merely taken on by the warring armies of the involved states, though they would be the most notable of the casualties of the war. No, the injuries and deaths of the soldiering population would pale in comparison to the destruction and chaos in the aftermath of the war amongst the civilian population.
The lack of labor available to tend to the fields of the Kingdom, conscription doing its very best to deprive the farms of Sichuan of their farmers, during the critical harvesting season would cause widespread crop failures, not helped by the increased presence of war refugees evacuating from the former frontlines of the WCW. The nascent industries raised during the short period of reform would be similarly ruined amidst the chaos. Immediate food relief, spearheaded by contributions put forward by the ZRF's agricultural production, has done much to soften the blow of famine thankfully, but the threat remains still on the horizon.
Thankfully, militant disturbances in the region would be relatively muted, with much of the Taiping armed forces having been either captured by the Republican forces or defected to the Xin Han armies in the East. Bandits would become a minor, but constant, feature of the new Sichuan environment, raids occurring across the more rural territories of the basin as Republican forces secured the cities first. Local officials would turn to petty warlordism in lieu of what little central authority was possessed by the previous Taiping government.
Chaos, but one much familiar to the landscape of the Republic. The present situation will need to be dealt with immediately in order to ensure some form of stability for Republican rule in Sichuan, though our options remain, as usual, limited.
Vote for ONE of Each.
[] [ECONOMY] Focus on Rebuilding Sichuan's Agriculture.
[] [ECONOMY] Expand the Industrial Potential of Sichuan.
A chief concern for those most attentive to the local needs of the Sichuan Basin, though the land is quite suitable for agriculture, the devastation and chaos of the war, combined with mismanagement by the Taiping has seen food harvests drop to dangerously low numbers. Focusing on this aspect of the Sichuan economy will do much to rejuvenate it in the immediate short-term, especially with how many farmers dominate the Sichuan population. As such, significant effort will need to be put here to begin to revive the farmlands of Sichuan.
Whilst some argue that a focus on agricultural development be pursued in Sichuan, others argue that a decisive break must be had with the old Taiping economy, as many of the landlords of the Basin were intimately connected with not just the local Taiping administrators, but some too with the Chengdu government itself. That by redoubling on focusing on the foundations of industrialization placed down by the last Taiping King, a new path could be achieved away from the reliance on the agrarian system of economy practiced for centuries and towards a new industrial society.
[] [ADMINISTRATION] Reform the Current Taiping Administrations.
Though the Taiping government has proven itself to be the most dysfunctional system of administration ever, it cannot be said that it does not have its benefits. After all, it is something that can be built off of for the Lanzhou government's own ends. The administrators and civil servants of the Taiping may be reformed and even integrated into the ranks of the KMT, though this will take some time to be implemented in full. However, the ability for Lanzhou to begin issuing its diktats inside of the Sichuan Basin quickly is one not easily dismissed.
Some others, of course, would argue for the tearing down of the Taiping administration entirely, rebuilding the provincial authorities from the ground-up to suit the needs of the Republic rather than the other way around. This will certainly be costly and time-consuming, and the removal of the more experienced local administrators will no doubt hamper efforts to integrate Sichuan as a province in the future.
In comparison, Guizhou, though much less affected by the woes of the West China War, is still undoubtedly one of the poorest regions of China, relatively isolated and landlocked in comparison to even the Northwestern states and Yunnan. The frequency of cross-border raids by those remnant Taiping forces still amok is of some concern, though much less so due to the weakness of Taiping presence here, as NBIS has little to no information to the happenings within Guizhou itself. Lacking much in even a bureaucracy, the territory will need much consolidation if it is to become a well-run and integrated part of the Republic as a whole.
Vote for ONE of Each.
[] [BUREAUCRACY] Rely on Local Powerbrokers.
[] [BUREAUCRACY] Attempt to Build a Republican Administration.
The circumstances that have led to the Lanzhou government acquiring the territories of Guizhou has meant that what little of an administration that the Taiping once possessed here has been assuredly broken, though that does not mean that there does not exist some form of authority within the province. It is, however, significantly devolved amongst the Guizhou population, landlords, small militia forces and even autonomous communes dominate the landscape, and we may be able to rely on these figures to establish our presence rapidly.
The lack of a Taiping administration also poses a unique opportunity for the Lanzhou government to build up government authority from scratch, granting it a free hand in the affairs of the province once a Republican administration has been successfully established. However, this will take much longer to be accomplished, with the relatively isolated position of the province from our core territories posing a potential opportunity for our rivals, both internal and abroad, to establish their own presence first in turn.
Lastly, there is the discussion regarding how best to deal with the unrest found in the new territories, especially in the short-term as rebel groups and banditry still plague the countryside at large. Whilst occupation has been deemed the most suitable method (for now) to handle the matter of public order, the NRA has, unfortunately, been much weakened by the war, and will be unable to provide themselves for occupation for all the territories as a result. However, with Liu Xiang's assistance, military occupation of the territories may be achieved, though still with some amount of stretching of the occupation forces.
(You may only pick either Liu Xiang or the NRA to serve as occupation forces in one area.)
[] [SICHUAN] Use the Military to Crackdown on Rebels.
-[] Rely on Liu Xiang's Forces.
-[] Rely on NRA Forces.
[] [GUIZHOU] Use the Military to Crackdown on Rebels.
-[] Rely on Liu Xiang's Forces.
-[] Rely on NRA Forces.
Pick ONE Faction.
[] KMT - Mainline
[] KMT - Revolutionary Group
[] KMT - Independents
[NPC] Republican Party
[] [ECONOMY] Focus on Rebuilding Sichuan's Agriculture.
[] [ADMINISTRATION] Reform the Current Taiping Administrations.
[] [BUREAUCRACY] Rely on Local Powerbrokers.
[NPC] Zhili Republican Front
[] [ECONOMY] Focus on Rebuilding Sichuan's Agriculture.
[] [ECONOMY] Expand the Industrial Potential of Sichuan.
[] [ADMINISTRATION] Recreate Republican Institutions.
[] [BUREAUCRACY] Attempt to Build a Republican Administration.
[NPC] RCA
[] [ECONOMY] Expand the Industrial Potential of Sichuan.
[] [ADMINISTRATION] Recreate Republican Institutions. [] [BUREAUCRACY] Attempt to Build a Republican Administration.
[] [SICHUAN] Use the Military to Crackdown on Rebels.
-[] Rely on NRA Forces.
[] [GUIZHOU] Use the Military to Crackdown on Rebels.
-[] Rely on NRA Forces.
And so the repulic needs rebuilding. May the hopes and dreams of a republican china be built on a foundation of development and meaningful improvement to every citizen.
"The Empire can ill afford another foreign distraction at this time with the newfound crisis in Spain,
it is therefor the opinion of the current government that the going-ons of the Orient are to be downplayed in any way feasible..."
- Letter from Foreign Minister Gaston Doumergue to the Indochinese Administration.
The boys are back in town (the boys are back in town)
I said (the boys are back in town)
(The boys are back in town)
The boys are back in town
(The boys are back in town)
The boys are back in town
(The boys are back in town)
If people do not send Liu Xiang's forces out to bumfuck around in Guizhou and establish the NRA in Sichuan, I will actually commit murders straight up.
