- Location
- Fort Worth, TX
[X] [RINGLEADER] Hold a Military Tribunal
[X] KMT - Mainline
[X] KMT - Mainline
The Dragon Roars: A KMT Quest
- Thread starter nachtingale
- Start date
- Original Alt. History Modern
-
- Tags
- original completed quest china
Vote closed
nachtingale
20. On that "honk, mimimi" type beat everyday.
- Location
- Malaysia
- Pronouns
- He/They
Turn 7.4, Squabbles of Millennia.
nachtingale
20. On that "honk, mimimi" type beat everyday.
- Location
- Malaysia
- Pronouns
- He/They
[X] Military Tribunal
Unfortunate Timing.
"Execution Upon Capture."
- NRA Propaganda Poster, Showcasing the Fate of Reconstruction Dissidents.
The Luzhou Mutiny would be one of a handful of military uprisings over the course of the initial announcement of Sichuan's military occupation, though it was certainly one of the largest and most well-organized. With the KMT government's continued concerns of a military backlash against the Party's civilian wing's indecisive nature, few would be willing to risk a breakup with the NRA over the question of dealing with the 17th Division mutineers. As such, it would do nothing, allowing the NRA to move forward with their regular internal system of military tribunals to decide the fate of the ringleaders of the mutiny, no doubt to be sentenced to the firing squad.
Indeed, the punishments would be swift as they were heavy-handed, pointedly aimed at squashing any further ideations of organizing another, larger mutiny amongst the conscript ranks. The few other isolated incidents of mutinies elsewhere in the occupation territories would be comparatively minor, and many would question how exactly the 17th Division had been so comparatively organized in their mutiny, some murmuring that a Reorganized Comrades conspiracy had been plotted to collapse Republican hold on the western territories.
Regardless, the 50 or so ringleaders would all face the firing squad, squashing any resistance within the 17th and the wider NRA, for now. NRA High Command would institute a system of divisional reorganization in response to the mutiny, separating and meshing together conscript and professional regiments into new units, hopefully preventing any future conspiracies from so-easily enticing whole divisions like in Luzhou. The regular criticism offered by the Party's usual critics, intellectuals from both the right and left-wings of the Republic, would lambast the entire situation as emblematic of the dictatorial nature of the occupation and its reliance on foreign conscripts to maintain it.
The KMT would be squarely in their sights for criticism during the whole affair, due mostly to its overwhelming influence over civilian and military affairs in the government. With national exhaustion over the end of the war, however, the affair has mostly been met with muted public reaction overall, some even praising the decisiveness in dealing with the conscripts' perceived "Hanjian", collaborationist, activity with what little Taiping presence remained in Sichuan.
Disaster, averted.
For now.
Indeed, the punishments would be swift as they were heavy-handed, pointedly aimed at squashing any further ideations of organizing another, larger mutiny amongst the conscript ranks. The few other isolated incidents of mutinies elsewhere in the occupation territories would be comparatively minor, and many would question how exactly the 17th Division had been so comparatively organized in their mutiny, some murmuring that a Reorganized Comrades conspiracy had been plotted to collapse Republican hold on the western territories.
Regardless, the 50 or so ringleaders would all face the firing squad, squashing any resistance within the 17th and the wider NRA, for now. NRA High Command would institute a system of divisional reorganization in response to the mutiny, separating and meshing together conscript and professional regiments into new units, hopefully preventing any future conspiracies from so-easily enticing whole divisions like in Luzhou. The regular criticism offered by the Party's usual critics, intellectuals from both the right and left-wings of the Republic, would lambast the entire situation as emblematic of the dictatorial nature of the occupation and its reliance on foreign conscripts to maintain it.
The KMT would be squarely in their sights for criticism during the whole affair, due mostly to its overwhelming influence over civilian and military affairs in the government. With national exhaustion over the end of the war, however, the affair has mostly been met with muted public reaction overall, some even praising the decisiveness in dealing with the conscripts' perceived "Hanjian", collaborationist, activity with what little Taiping presence remained in Sichuan.
Disaster, averted.
For now.
Reform or Integration?
"Make True Our Struggle, Land to the Tiller!"
- Land Reform Slogan.
The question of land ownership is one that has plagued every state on every continent, where earth is not submerged by sea, for time immemorial. It is a struggle that has harried governments since the time of the Mesopotamian city-state, and the very beginnings of Chinese civilization as well. The great Yellow Turban rebellion was, after all, a peasant struggle, a struggle for their right to land, to farm and to feed themselves and their families; a formative struggle that would herald the chaos that plagued China for centuries thereafter.
It is a struggle that plagues China today.
One of the many compromises that was made during the West China War for the sake of national unity would be an agreement with the Zhili provincial government for a final resolution for land reform, to finally put to rest the argument of land ownership and to liberate millions of our citizens from the bondage of landlordism and feudal backwardness. It is certainly a popular movement, one that is readily accepted by most of our citizenry for its broad inclusion of our mostly agrarian society.
A plan of land redistribution has already been implemented in Zhili province, with Governor Feng Yuxiang's Shaanxi Province seeking to follow suit with a similarly aggressive land reform program to wide and popular acclaim.
That is not to say that detractors to this movement does not exist. Most naturally, the landlords would issue severe objections to any radical form of land reform, resisting the most radical packages of the land reform programs in either province through their usage of the more conservative judicial branch of the Republic in their favor in court settlements over the program, frustrating provincial legislators to no end. More pointedly, the continued strength of the Republican Party has meant that land reform programs would be forced to deradicalize pre-emptively in hopes of passing through local assemblies.
Sun Yat-Sen is broadly in favor of a policy of land reform, though even he faces disagreements within the party itself over what that reform should look like.
These disagreements would stem mainly from Party Whip Song Jiaoren's faction of moderates and the radical wing under Wang Zhaoming. Jiaoren's faction, much more radical than the Republican Party, to be sure, would not be quite as radical enough as to agree with the ZRF's proposals for land confiscation and redistribution. They point to the fact that with the Republic still preoccupied with the business of reconstruction of the western territories, government resources were already stretched thin enough as is, many doubting if the integration of Zhili Province's administration could even be pursued at this present course.
They propose that a slower, more conciliatory legislation be pursued for land reform, through land buybacks and voluntary land gifting on the part of the landowners in an effort to stave off a collapse of government administrative capabilities in the short-term, with more radical programs being considered in the future, when reconstruction is no longer of concern to the Republic. This would certainly also help in preventing unrest and dissent amongst the landowning class, whilst offering a helping hand to the ailing and suffering peasantry of the Republic.
Wang Zhaoming's radical faction would propose a policy far more in line with the ZRF's initial proposals, with land confiscations and redistribution in a similar vein to the American claim of "40 acres and a mule". Though, they would agree with Jiaoren's concerns of KMT administration being stretched too thin for a comprehensive form of land redistribution to be enacted. Instead, Zhaoming would suggest a policy of land redistribution in cooperation with ZRF officials, easing the burden on the part of the KMT to enact such a program wholly on their own.
Such a proposal would be viewed with large disdain to many within the higher ranks of the KMT, including both the civilian and military wings, decried as anathema to the goal of the KMT as the sole party of the revolution. Most especially as the integration and reorientation of the Zhili government bureaucracy to the benefit of the KMT is to be discussed soon after the legislation's passing, such a plan would further complicate it by the need to replace some of the more unwilling bureaucrats, slowing down the progress of the reform.
Some see the merit in this however, viewing it as a step towards a broader ZRF alliance with the KMT on a national level, with the more radical elements of the ZRF having split off towards the RCA instead.
It is a struggle that plagues China today.
One of the many compromises that was made during the West China War for the sake of national unity would be an agreement with the Zhili provincial government for a final resolution for land reform, to finally put to rest the argument of land ownership and to liberate millions of our citizens from the bondage of landlordism and feudal backwardness. It is certainly a popular movement, one that is readily accepted by most of our citizenry for its broad inclusion of our mostly agrarian society.
A plan of land redistribution has already been implemented in Zhili province, with Governor Feng Yuxiang's Shaanxi Province seeking to follow suit with a similarly aggressive land reform program to wide and popular acclaim.
That is not to say that detractors to this movement does not exist. Most naturally, the landlords would issue severe objections to any radical form of land reform, resisting the most radical packages of the land reform programs in either province through their usage of the more conservative judicial branch of the Republic in their favor in court settlements over the program, frustrating provincial legislators to no end. More pointedly, the continued strength of the Republican Party has meant that land reform programs would be forced to deradicalize pre-emptively in hopes of passing through local assemblies.
Sun Yat-Sen is broadly in favor of a policy of land reform, though even he faces disagreements within the party itself over what that reform should look like.
These disagreements would stem mainly from Party Whip Song Jiaoren's faction of moderates and the radical wing under Wang Zhaoming. Jiaoren's faction, much more radical than the Republican Party, to be sure, would not be quite as radical enough as to agree with the ZRF's proposals for land confiscation and redistribution. They point to the fact that with the Republic still preoccupied with the business of reconstruction of the western territories, government resources were already stretched thin enough as is, many doubting if the integration of Zhili Province's administration could even be pursued at this present course.
They propose that a slower, more conciliatory legislation be pursued for land reform, through land buybacks and voluntary land gifting on the part of the landowners in an effort to stave off a collapse of government administrative capabilities in the short-term, with more radical programs being considered in the future, when reconstruction is no longer of concern to the Republic. This would certainly also help in preventing unrest and dissent amongst the landowning class, whilst offering a helping hand to the ailing and suffering peasantry of the Republic.
Wang Zhaoming's radical faction would propose a policy far more in line with the ZRF's initial proposals, with land confiscations and redistribution in a similar vein to the American claim of "40 acres and a mule". Though, they would agree with Jiaoren's concerns of KMT administration being stretched too thin for a comprehensive form of land redistribution to be enacted. Instead, Zhaoming would suggest a policy of land redistribution in cooperation with ZRF officials, easing the burden on the part of the KMT to enact such a program wholly on their own.
Such a proposal would be viewed with large disdain to many within the higher ranks of the KMT, including both the civilian and military wings, decried as anathema to the goal of the KMT as the sole party of the revolution. Most especially as the integration and reorientation of the Zhili government bureaucracy to the benefit of the KMT is to be discussed soon after the legislation's passing, such a plan would further complicate it by the need to replace some of the more unwilling bureaucrats, slowing down the progress of the reform.
Some see the merit in this however, viewing it as a step towards a broader ZRF alliance with the KMT on a national level, with the more radical elements of the ZRF having split off towards the RCA instead.
What is to be Done?
[] Support Song Jiaoren's Plan.(KMT Revolutionary Group Votes count as 0.8)
[] Support Wang Zhaoming's Plan.
(KMT Mainline votes count as 0.6)
Pick ONE Faction.
[] KMT - Mainline[] KMT - Revolutionary Group
[] KMT - Independents
[NPC] Republican Party
(Generally Supports No or Moderate Land Reform.)
[NPC] Zhili Republican Front
(Generally Supports Moderately Aggressive Land Reform.)
[NPC] RCA
(Generally Supports Aggressive Land Reform.)
A/N: Bit more of a vague voting system this time, 48 hour moratorium.
MordredRaal
Agitating
- Pronouns
- She/They
[] Support Wang Zhaoming's Plan
[] KMT - Revolutionary Group
There is only one option
[] KMT - Revolutionary Group
There is only one option
[]Support Wang Zhaoming's Plan.
[] KMT - Mainline
I pretty much want aggressive land reform done now considering "Nothing is more permanent than a temporary solution" so a half-measure now may end up being the only land reform we would do. It will likely be consolidated in the future due to how agriculture works but it would buy good will from the population and help with stability and internal legitimacy.
This does bring up the concern that we would need to placate the landowners and generally make sure they wouldn't be pissed at the KMT enough to try a coup or something equally stupid
Related, I do wonder as to how much would Zhaoming's plan help in integrating the Zhili Province to the Republic.
[] KMT - Mainline
I pretty much want aggressive land reform done now considering "Nothing is more permanent than a temporary solution" so a half-measure now may end up being the only land reform we would do. It will likely be consolidated in the future due to how agriculture works but it would buy good will from the population and help with stability and internal legitimacy.
This does bring up the concern that we would need to placate the landowners and generally make sure they wouldn't be pissed at the KMT enough to try a coup or something equally stupid
Related, I do wonder as to how much would Zhaoming's plan help in integrating the Zhili Province to the Republic.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Ah. Well, we're certainly not finding out anything about any wider conspiracies from the dead bodies.
[] Support Wang Zhaoming's Plan.
[] KMT - Mainline
As for the land reform, I... really don't think Song Jiaoren's plan is a good idea at all in general. "Land buybacks and voluntary land gifting" sounds like things that will also strain our resources and be wholly ineffectual respectively. Further reconciliation with the ZRF on the other hand sounds great and while unlikely, perhaps it could be a step towards integrating them into the KMT?
Random Member
Gardener of Human Happiness
- Location
- Behind You
[] Support Song Jiaoren's Plan.
[] KMT - Mainline
Landlords are an important pillar of society, providing housing and jobs to millions! Reject the radical course to anarchy, vote for reconciliation with the landlords and the Republican Party!
[] KMT - Mainline
Landlords are an important pillar of society, providing housing and jobs to millions! Reject the radical course to anarchy, vote for reconciliation with the landlords and the Republican Party!
Regency
PFP by vanathema (previously yubishines)
- Location
- Morioh Town, Mt. Ebbot
- Pronouns
- They/Them
SAY NO MORE
Come to our embrace, ZRF 😘
- Location
- Fort Worth, TX
[] Support Song Jiaoren's Plan.
[] KMT - Mainline
[] KMT - Mainline
I would argue these are worthwhile reforms to try and implement with it helping with legitimacy and stability, and it maybe helping improve the economy considering that the agricultural workers have now more motivation to improve their land.
I also have the concern that more moderate reforms are not going to fix that issue and would be kicking the can down the road, considering that I think that the landowners would do a kind of land reform where it doesn't change how the dynamics of the countryside.
Although I do admit that a moderate reform would be easier to implement, would be more palatable to the landowners, and would be good for defusing tensions coming from the issue. That does bring up the task of actually fixing the issue of land reform down the line, something I doubts would happen considering that we haven't dealt with the opium issue as of currently
I also have the concern that more moderate reforms are not going to fix that issue and would be kicking the can down the road, considering that I think that the landowners would do a kind of land reform where it doesn't change how the dynamics of the countryside.
Although I do admit that a moderate reform would be easier to implement, would be more palatable to the landowners, and would be good for defusing tensions coming from the issue. That does bring up the task of actually fixing the issue of land reform down the line, something I doubts would happen considering that we haven't dealt with the opium issue as of currently
- Location
- Vicksburg, MS
[x] Support Wang Zhaoming's Plan.
[x] KMT - Independents
We have tipped a lot of landlords in Sichuan and earlier IIRC and it hasn't especially wowed but did enrich the Republicans who hate us. Build bridges with the ZRF, screw over the Republicans who hate us anyway, win acclaim from the people.
[x] KMT - Independents
We have tipped a lot of landlords in Sichuan and earlier IIRC and it hasn't especially wowed but did enrich the Republicans who hate us. Build bridges with the ZRF, screw over the Republicans who hate us anyway, win acclaim from the people.
nachtingale
20. On that "honk, mimimi" type beat everyday.
- Location
- Malaysia
- Pronouns
- He/They
voting isn't open yet.
Deadly Snark
Tryhard As Fuck
Pretty much, the NRA are already shooting Landlords in the head in Sichuan.
Now, I know Landlords are scum of the Earth, but they aren't stupid. If we don't go for the throat now, they'll go for ours because they are not going to just sit there and wait for us to slit their throats.
[]Support Wang Zhaoming's Plan.
[] KMT - Mainline
Let's cooperate with the ZRF this time. It should make them less hostile to us which is important considering we are trying to integrate them.
[] KMT - Mainline
Let's cooperate with the ZRF this time. It should make them less hostile to us which is important considering we are trying to integrate them.
- Location
- Over the next hill.
[] Support Wang Zhaoming's Plan
[] KMT - Revolutionary Group
From a political standpoint, gradual land reform will not do us any favors. The RCA and the ZRF will assume much of the KMT's revolutionary character among the public if we don't. Most of our population are farmers so this is going to be something very near and dear to our voting public. We also need to get in on the growing rift in the ZRF between the moderates and the radicals. If the ZRF have no other backers for their land reform program, that means the party draws closer to the RCA without any contenders.
From a policy standpoint, I think slow land reform is a trap. We already know the judiciary is relatively conservative. Going for the slow reform I feel is just going to give them the precedent they need to sandbag any more aggressive reforms later. We need to hit hard and fast.
Edit:
Here are the cons or at least my reading of them in Wang's proposal
[] KMT - Revolutionary Group
From a political standpoint, gradual land reform will not do us any favors. The RCA and the ZRF will assume much of the KMT's revolutionary character among the public if we don't. Most of our population are farmers so this is going to be something very near and dear to our voting public. We also need to get in on the growing rift in the ZRF between the moderates and the radicals. If the ZRF have no other backers for their land reform program, that means the party draws closer to the RCA without any contenders.
From a policy standpoint, I think slow land reform is a trap. We already know the judiciary is relatively conservative. Going for the slow reform I feel is just going to give them the precedent they need to sandbag any more aggressive reforms later. We need to hit hard and fast.
Edit:
Here are the cons or at least my reading of them in Wang's proposal
- Pisses off leadership in both civilian and military wings of the party because we're collaborating with the ZRF.
- Progress of the reform will be slower because we'll have to replace bureaucrats.
- Stretches thin our resources because we'll be doing it along with reconstruction.
- The landlords will hate us more than the conservative one.
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Out of curiosity... What are Vice President Huang's thoughts on Land Reform?
Provinces of the Republic, 1914.
nachtingale
20. On that "honk, mimimi" type beat everyday.
- Location
- Malaysia
- Pronouns
- He/They
Administrative Divisions of the Republic of China.
中華民國行政區劃
- 甘肅省 (Gansu Province)
- 貴州省 (Guizhou Province)
- 青海省 (Qinghai Province)
- 陝西省 (Shaanxi Province)
- 四川省 (Sichuan Province)
- 新疆省 (Xinjiang Province)
- 直隸省 (Zhili Province)
A/N: Just a little info to flesh out the provinces in the coming elections of later turns, the make-up of the provincial legislatures will shift around based on actions taken by the Lanzhou government and local events.
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Deadly Snark
Tryhard As Fuck
I assume
"It has to be done for the sake of the Revolution and our Ideals, but I don't like that we are following the ZRF's lead on this."
Probably something like
"It has to be done for the sake of the Revolution and our Ideals, but I don't like that we are following the ZRF's lead on this."
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Well there seems to have been relatively little debate on this but people seem to have stated opposing opinions with no reconciliation seen. So here's the poll, because a minority opinion could very well upset the vote here if we don't follow demcent.
strawpoll.com
Turn 7.4, Squabbles of Millennia. - Online Poll - StrawPoll
What's your opinion? Vote now: [] Support Song Jiaoren's Plan., [] Support Wang Zhaoming's Plan....
strawpoll.com