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Gundam SEED Rebuild - Time Travel Fix-it Quest

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Darkcore41 said:
If we say we have assets in the area, like our own mobile suits, won't the question be why are we here instead of there using our own or protecting our own?

Also announcing the identity of the attackers means orb already knew about the attack from an outsider perspective. So why are they there with the G weapons and why didn't they warn them earlier. I feel as tho these are the questions that'll go through her head.
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The immediate answer to the first is we had an appointment to pick up Kira.

The answer to the second is.... we did warn them earlier. We warned the port. If Ramius knows about the report, she knows that Orb already knew. If not... she'll find out as soon as the survivors from the port tell her. Assuming some of the original Archangel crew did survive at the port.
 
PistachioCookies said:
The immediate answer to the first is we had an appointment to pick up Kira.

The answer to the second is.... we did warn them earlier. We warned the port. If Ramius knows about the report, she knows that Orb already knew. If not... she'll find out as soon as the survivors from the port tell her. Assuming some of the original Archangel crew did survive at the port.
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The second answer was a warning of a terrorist attack not Zaft. Knowing specifically Athruns is the one coming means not only knowledge of the attack but specifics of said attack like people involved, time of attack and maybe more.

As for the first, the question becomes why meet Kira here? Why not ask him to go straight to their actual labs?

Also what would Kira feel if he heard Athruns is coming? What would he do in the case his best friend is nearby?
 
Darkcore41 said:
As for the first, the question becomes why meet Kira here? Why not ask him to go straight to their actual labs?

Also what would Kira feel if he heard Athruns is coming? What would he do in the case his best friend is nearby?
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Knowing there was going to be any sort of attack means Orb had an information source - the assumption would be that their spy network gave them some incomplete intel that later got corrected with specifics about ZAFT.

As for Kira, I mean the guy isn't involved in the Astray project. As far as everyone is concerned right now, thanks to the lies Cagalli's been telling him, he's been telling people he's a prospective Morgenroete employee meant to work on a Natural-use OS for civilian suits, nothing to do with the military. No reason for him to be anywhere near the Astray labs.

Finally, the hope with telling Kira that Athrun is coming is that he will be shocked enough to want to see it for himself. Plus, Cagalli calling him chicken if he goes to the shelters will hopefully get him angry enough to not want to do that.

All it needs to do is make him shocked enough to stay near the Strike until he gets forced into the cockpit to avoid getting crushed by the collapsing factory.
 
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PistachioCookies said:
As for Kira, I mean the guy isn't involved in the Astray project. As far as everyone is concerned right now, thanks to the lies Kira's been telling him, he's been telling people he's a prospective Morgenroete employee meant to work on a Natural-use OS for civilian suits, nothing to do with the military. No reason for him to be anywhere near the Astray labs.
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We had the option to meet him at the labs meaning any regular person would probably think why we didn't pick that option when we knew an attack was coming so far in advance we knew the attackers names.

If feel as tho I should give a suggestion to tighten this up.

MC has an appointment with the professor and there isn't a need to mention and complicate the lie by mentioning the warning right now. It does nothing to change the situation and Ramius is under fire.

Say the MC is a whistleblower that has gotten Intel about this project. Seeing as the colony is under attack a temporary truce should be called to save said colony. Then proceed to convince her to pilot the Gundam with Kira out, while she goes for the Aegis. The reason for Kira staying near her is it would be dangerous for Cagalli to carry him to the next G weapon.

[X] Plan: Diplomat
-[X] Ask for help from Murrue Ramius:
-- [X] Orb Official
---[X] Say your a whistleblower that came to check on this project. Convince her your here to temporarily join forces to keep the G weapons out of Zafts hands. The best way is to pilot them out.
-[X] Stay with Murrue Ramius:
--[X] Convince Kira it's safer with Ramius.
--[X] Convince Ramius to babysit him to avoid crossfire while Cagalli goes for the Aegis and to see if he can make moving it easier while you go for the Aegis to keep it out of Zafts hands.
-[X] Get near GAT-X303 Aegis
--[X] Announce your Intention
---[X] Announce the plan to keep it out of Zafts hands and to use them to protect the colony.

Edit: what I'm expecting is no matter what plan wins the staying part is going to be a difficult roll because Kira knows the shelter is right there and is a pacifist that won't want to get into the Gundam unless pressed.

Ramius not wanting to involve civilians or foreign governments with no identification.
 
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Darkcore41 said:
MC has an appointment with the professor and there isn't a need to mention and complicate the lie by mentioning the warning right now. It does nothing to change the situation and Ramius is under fire.
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That's why the plan I made just now doesn't mention anything about Cagalli being the one who warned the port.

Ramius can either connect the dots herself if she knew there was one, if not she'll find out later that someone blew the whistle at the port and probably assume it was Orb's intelligence network with slightly faulty info.
Darkcore41 said:
Say the MC is a whistleblower that has gotten Intel about this project. Seeing as the colony is under attack a temporary truce should be called to save said colony. Then proceed to convince her to pilot the Gundam with Kira out, while she goes for the Aegis. The reason for Kira staying near her is it would be dangerous for Cagalli to carry him to the next G weapon.
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I don't think we will have much luck trying to convince Ramius to directly let anybody pilot the machines. Not even if the suggested pilot was Ramius herself.

Note that all the options are for "getting near" the suits and permission to get near them, not getting INTO the cockpit. I think Ramius would be unlikely to give permission for that barring the factory collapsing, she knows the suits are not ready to be piloted and also doesn't want anyone to see the inside.

I think it will take the factory actually collapsing to convince her to let anybody try to pilot them.

......I especially don't think Cagalli introducing herself as a Morgenroete whistleblower would go down well. As that would be introducing herself as someone who plans to expose the G-Project and Ramius would not trust her to get near the Aegis knowing that.
 
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What's stopping Ramius from assuming the MC is a Zafts spy or something with the amount of info she has and the armaments she's carrying?

The hurdles I see for this is:
Either getting Kira to stop following us either to go to the shelters or staying with Ramius.
Ramius accepting responsibility for a civilian dead weight in the middle of a shoot out.
Kira or Ramius not questioning why we aren't going to the nearby shelter.

Extra hurdles for the more info we provide. Like how we know who's coming.

This would have been easier if we could just sneak to the Aegis. Open fire with the Vulcans to push away Zafts forces. When the factory collapses Ramius hops into the strike and pilots out of the factory but can't move. That would accomplish everything but it'd rely on our intrigue roll.
 
Darkcore41 said:
What's stopping Ramius from assuming the MC is a Zafts spy or something with the amount of info she has and the armaments she's carrying?
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Simple - her shooting at ZAFT's forces and protecting the EA.

And then announcing she is going to fight Athrun Zala. And then actually fighting him for the Aegis when he shows up.
Darkcore41 said:
Either getting Kira to stop following us either to go to the shelters or staying with Ramius.
Ramius accepting responsibility for a civilian dead weight in the middle of a shoot out.
Kira or Ramius not questioning why we aren't going to the nearby shelter.
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Using Athrun's name will hopefully freeze Kira on the spot. We're not actually telling Ramius to look after him, we're just telling Kira to stay where he is, which happens to be with Ramius.

As for why Cagalli wants to fight, her explanation is that Orb's secret project also relies on the G-Project, so as an Orb official, she is doing her duty for her country.

That and we really want to fight Athrun Zala. One nation's VIP to another's, no holds barred.
 
[X] The Cagalli Handbook - Chapter 1: Yell at them(Revised)
- [X] Ask for help from Complain/browbeat Murrue Ramius into submission: Announce your presence. Knowing Captain Ramius, she probably would not kill you on sight. Probably. [Martial DC - Easy, then Diplomacy DC varies - Easy]
-- [X] Introduce yourself as a pissed-off Orb Noble: Tell Murrue that you are a fairly important dignitary, who is very angry finding out about a certain deal EA made with the Sahaku family behind Orb's back yesterday and about the ZAFT task force outside the unarmed colony.

- [X] Ask Kira to Stay with Murrue Ramius: While Kira would not take any active fighting actions, you may be able to convince him to take defensive choices [Diplomacy DC varies - Easy to Difficult]
-- [X] Give Kira the Hard drive with the Morgenröte OS: Give Kira the drive: You are most likely going to need it more than me after all: the professor uploaded your work onto the mobile suits... at least the work you were already doing for him. This being a more complete product, by actual paid developers at Morgenröte. Also, keep the hard drive safe as it's most likely evidence of Morgenröte's downpayment for this whole mess.
-- [X] Tell them both to get into the Strike, as GINNs are heading straight into the colony: Ready or not here they come. The EA detachment of Moebius Mobile Armors is currently being slaughtered outside the colony and GINN will most likely breach the walls in about 5-10 minutes. I don't think you're going to reach the Archangel on the road anyway. Kira try to get it moving, its OS is unfinished and we're going to need to find cover right quick as the strike is basically unarmed.

- [X] Get near GAT-X303 Aegis: You need to get on a mobile suit ASAP. And there may be a chance to get on the Aegis to deny ZAFT the suit. [Martial DC - Medium, then Martial VC varies - Difficult]
-- [X] Get Demand Permission First: I'm getting into this mobile suit and defending this colony from its most likely destruction -- Cagalli the calm


PistachioCookies said:
OK, here's what I'm going to go with:

[X] Plan - I'll Steal Your Suit, Athrun
- [X] Ask for help from Murrue Ramius: Announce your presence. Knowing Captain Ramius, she probably would not kill you on sight. Probably.
-- [X] Introduce yourself as an Orb Official: Immediately inform Ramius that the assailants are ZAFT's elite Le Creuset team, here to steal the G-Weapons. Admit that Orb's Morgenroete also has a top-secret project being worked on in the colony, leeching off the G-Project data, that you are hoping to protect.

- [X] Ask Kira to Stay with Murrue Ramius: Tell Kira that his old friend Athrun Zala is part of the strike force imminently about to storm the factory and steal the suits. If he wants first-hand proof, he can stay near Ramius and see for himself while Cagalli joins the fight. But if he's too scared, he should just hide with everyone else in the shelters.

- [X] Get near GAT-X303 Aegis: You need to get on a mobile suit asap. And there may be a chance to get on the Aegis to deny ZAFT the suit.
-- [X] Announce your Intention: Declare that Athrun Zala, son of PLANT Defense Chairman Patrick Zala, is personally coming to steal the Aegis and that you are going to defend it from him. Suggest the defenders use the cockpit as a foxhole.
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This is a bad idea, a horrible idea. I think the introduction will be a Hard Diplomacy DC (or middling + our equipment giving us a negative + our apparent age giving us a negative.) The truth will not be our friend here to a fairly agitated person. It's better not to make her angrier and just try to get her confused.

There is going to be DC check for both Kira and Ramius for the ask Kira part most likely. This... Is not a a good idea

And most likely an auto fail on the Aegis one. I honestly don't think Cagalli can sell that. Selling the truth here is going to be impossible. Selling a plausible possibility of corruption is more palatable. I don't think Cagalli can sell cloudcuckoolander(We do not have Lacus's diplomatic ability... nor her most likely scary Intrigue stat). This is Seed, not Wing Pistachio, I don't think it will work. Selling a Paranoid noble is a better sell for Cagalli's abilities and current equipment.
 
[X] The Cagalli Handbook - Chapter 1: Yell at them(Revised)

Sold! though the Athrun suit one has got a significant lead now
 
NegativeJ said:
This is a bad idea, a horrible idea. I think the introduction will be a Hard Diplomacy DC (or middling + our equipment giving us a negative + our apparent age giving us a negative.) The truth will not be our friend here to a fairly agitated person. It's better not to make her angrier and just try to get her confused.
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Um. Have you taken a look at your own vote?

You're voting for Cagalli to browbeat, shout and complain at her and you think this will somehow make her LESS angry than giving intel on who the attackers are and explaining why we want to defend the suits?

If you say yes, obviously, I will disagree.

Not to mention, we just got explicitly told that giving Kira the Morgenroete OS would flat out backfire:
TurbojetTakeoff said:
Depends what you mean by homework? Cagalli could push the hard drive to Kira. But that's about it unless you meant something else?
Just a reminder that Kira at the moment is not on the team and his actions cannot be directly chosen. He can only be convinced subject to DC rolls.

Cagalli can try to convince Kira to do this. May expect Diplomacy DC Failure other than Critical Success Roll.

....

Cagalli reviewed it and confirmed that it's a prototype Natural-use OS. So it's probably worse than any OS that Kira improvises for his specific use.
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So him trying to use the Natural-use Morgenroete OS in the Strike would apparently be worse than rewriting the OS on the fly for his own Coordinator-specific use.... and we would need a critical success to convince Kira to actually install the thing, even if we could give him the drive.

Basically, the Morgenroete OS is for Cagalli to use and install on whatever suit she's piloting (and we're going after the Aegis in this case). Not Kira.
NegativeJ said:
And most likely an auto fail on the Aegis one. I honestly don't think Cagalli can sell that. Selling the truth here is going to be impossible. Selling a plausible possibility of corruption is more palatable.
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....My vote IS for selling a tale of corruption.

She's admitting to Ramius that Morgenroete was stealing borrowing data from the G-Project for Orb's own project (Sahaku's Astrays) and so she needs to defend the G-Project suits to secure their data for Orb's own project.

If anything is likely to be an auto-fail, it's Cagalli making unexplained, emotionally-driven "I'm getting into this mobile suit" demands on Ramius.

My vote was for "defending" the suit, because I can't see any case where asking Ramius to actually explicitly PILOT the thing is going to ever work out.*

* Now this follow-up scenario is admittedly unlikely, but I was actually hoping maybe in the process of fighting around the Aegis' cockpit, Cagalli and Athrun could end up both "accidentally" shut inside giving her the opportunity to Awaken Athrun out of the sight of anybody else and then later drop him off somewhere and claim she shot him and pushed his body out of the cockpit.

Warmachine375 said:
Lord Atha: "How did you know about this?"

Cagalli: "Uhhh... A revelation led me to it."
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Cagalli: ".....The same revelation that also told me Morgenroete was developing suits for the EA on Heliopolis. Which you didn't believe me about."
 
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Hey friends, I really appreciate the lively debate and the thoughtful analysis for the pros and cons : D It brings me joy

Let's try to keep things calm and relaxed. ( ´▽` )ﾉ
 
[X] Plan - I'll Steal Your Suit, Athrun.

We need this right now.
 
PistachioCookies said:
* Now this follow-up scenario is admittedly unlikely, but I was actually hoping maybe in the process of fighting around the Aegis' cockpit, Cagalli and Athrun could end up both "accidentally" shut inside giving her the opportunity to Awaken Athrun out of the sight of anybody else and then later drop him off somewhere and claim she shot him and pushed his body out of the cockpit.
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Kira needs 50 World Points to be Awakened, and Cagalli still doesn't have enough. I doubt Athrun's requirement is any lower than Kira's.
 
[X] Plan - I'll Steal Your Suit, Athrun.

Having reread the previous comments, i'll switch back to this. I may love the meme, but we need as much success as we can get
 
PistachioCookies said:
So him trying to use the Natural-use Morgenroete OS in the Strike would apparently be worse than rewriting the OS on the fly for his own Coordinator-specific use.... and we would need a critical success to convince Kira to actually install the thing, even if we could give him the drive.
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Wait....

TurbojetTakeoff said:
Depends what you mean by homework? Cagalli could push the hard drive to Kira. But that's about it unless you meant something else?
Just a reminder that Kira at the moment is not on the team and his actions cannot be directly chosen. He can only be convinced subject to DC rolls.


Cagalli can try to convince Kira to do this. May expect Diplomacy DC Failure other than Critical Success Roll.


Cagalli also doesn't know if Ramius/Earth Alliance knows or not.


Cagalli reviewed it and confirmed that it's a prototype Natural-use OS. So it's probably worse than any OS that Kira improvises for his specific use.


In general yes.

Might also note that speaking to Ramius is a Martial and Diplomacy DC :V Just something for thoughts when deciding what to say to her/ EA forces.
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Turbo... You mean -10 after Kira and ZAFT special forces rewrite the OS on the Gundams, right? And not the non-functional OS that was most likely written on the Duel with bits and pieces of Kira's scraps.

I'm probably going to need to reread Astrey and Rewatch like 2-4 episodes of Gundam Seed, Be back in a bit. Be back sometime in the next 24 hours.
 
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