Remove ads

Gundam SEED Rebuild - Time Travel Fix-it Quest

Reader mode
NegativeJ said:
The gun and body armor might fuck us, it might not. It's most likely going to be a roll.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
This is kinda why I want to introduce ourselves as the report-maker. Makes sense to be carrying a gun if we believed there was going to be a terrorist attack.
NegativeJ said:
Because the person who reported it was Cagalli Yula Athha, not something I would want coming out right this second. There is chaos to be yet had.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
If Ramius actually recognizes the name, that would only help establish our legitimacy. It would have Kira asking questions, but we didn't lie to him either - she is also Cagalli Hibiki, the same person his parents recognized and giving a different last name is easily excusable by Athha drawing too much attention from everyone in Orb.

The whole Morgenroete-employment farce we fed Kira is going to be up real quick anyway. There's no way we can maintain that in front of him if we're sticking around for any length of time.
 
I think we need to keep in mind the things we told Kira and how he'll react to what we say in this moment. Like why we aren't telling him not going to the shelters. Why were telling an Earth official to babysit him in the middle of a gun fight. Why we lied to him or if we're lying to Ramius.

PistachioCookies said:
This is kinda why I want to introduce ourselves as the report-maker.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Does she even know about the report? I thought they only told the port and security personal. Also while that may say we aren't on Zafts side, she's still guarding a piece of classified military equipment. She's not going to like another polity nor a civilian add on to be near.
 
Last edited:
[X] The Cagalli Handbook - Chapter 1: Yell at them
- [X] Ask for help from Complain/browbeat Murrue Ramius into submission: Announce your presence. Knowing Captain Ramius, she probably would not kill you on sight. Probably. [Martial DC - Easy, then Diplomacy DC varies - Easy]
-- [X] Introduce yourself as a pissed-off Orb Official: Tell Murrue that you are a fairly important official/dignitary, who is very angry finding out about a certain deal EA made with the Sahaku family behind Orb's back yesterday and about the ZAFT task force outside the unarmed colony.

- [X] Ask Kira to Stay with Murrue Ramius: While Kira would not take any active fighting actions, you may be able to convince him to take defensive choices [Diplomacy DC varies - Easy to Difficult]
-- [X] Give Kira the Hard drive with the Morgenröte OS: Give Kira some homework
-- [X] Tell them both to get into the Strike, as GINNs are heading straight into the colony: Ready or not here they come. The EA detachment of Moebius Mobile Armors are currently being slaughtered outside the colony.

- [X] Get near GAT-X303 Aegis: You need to get on a mobile suit ASAP. And there may be a chance to get on the Aegis to deny ZAFT the suit. [Martial DC - Medium, then Martial VC varies - Difficult]
-- [X] Get Demand Permission First: I'm getting into this mobile suit and defending this colony from its most likely destruction -- Cagalli the calm

Cagalli: "I was something beyond furious."
 
Darkcore41 said:
Does she even know about the report? I thought they only told the port and security personal. Also while that may say we aren't on Zafts side, she's still guarding a piece of classified military equipment. She's not going to like another polity nor a civilian add on to be near.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
She'll be unhappy with Cagalli (and Kira) being nearby no matter what.

And whether she knows about the report is really not that important. Telling her we phoned in about terrorists provides an explanation for why we are packing heat. If she never heard about the tip-off, it doesn't make a difference, she can verify it later and then find out it was true. If she knew about the report, she knows it's true and now has reason to trust we are not working with ZAFT (apart from Cagalli also shooting at the ZAFT assailants to reach her).

People are going to find out Cagalli is Cagalli Athha soon enough. Sahaku knew it was her. The port knows she's in town. Her father probably knows by now too. If Ramius knows, she knows but if she doesn't, Cagalli can just omit her last name.

We need Kira near the Strike if we want him to pilot it. We can't really provide a good reason for it, as we are actually being manipulative and trying to surreptitious force him to act as a spare pilot so Cagalli herself can make a bid for the Aegis (otherwise she'd prefer to take the Strike).

The only half-legitimate sounding way I've seen to justify Kira being near the Strike is to give him the Morgenroete OS and get him to install it, so that they can get the suits moving properly and away from ZAFT. But that itself would ring alarm bells and have him wondering about the story Cagalli cooked up and whether his natural-use OS was really for civilians suits, as opposed to this.

Fact of the matter is that the lies we told him to get his help are already crumbling - they won't last for much longer. Trying to hold them up potentially at the cost of the Aegis or the Strike seems stupid to me.
 
Last edited:
PistachioCookies said:
We need Kira near the Strike if we want him to pilot it. We can't really provide a good reason for it, as we are actually being manipulative and trying to surreptitious force him to act as a spare pilot so Cagalli herself can make a bid for the Aegis (otherwise she'd prefer to take the Strike).
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Problem is Cagalli doesn't want Kira involved in the heat of the moment. As seen by the beginning of the plan. Will she stumble here by putting him in possible danger and with her minor changes possibly changing something negatively?

PistachioCookies said:
The only half-legitimate sounding way I've seen to justify Kira being near the Strike is to give him the Morgenroete OS and get him to install it, so that they can get the suits moving properly and away from ZAFT. But that itself would ring alarm bells and have him wondering about the story Cagalli cooked up and whether his natural-use OS was really for civilians suits, as opposed to this.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
How does that provide him legitimacy? If it's the OS allowing use of the strike, then him being a coordinator already does that.

Edit: Wouldn't using his own be just as justified?

Edit2: What is our win condition for this turn? Both the Aegis and the freedom in our hands? At what cost are we willing to have that and how will we continue to put overall goal?

Is our end goal to keep these suits for Orb? Does having the canon fate of the Freedom help with that?
 
Last edited:
I mean, in-universe Cagalli just wants him to churn out OSes for her, but I was under the impression that we, the players, wanted him in the Strike.
Darkcore41 said:
How does that provide him legitimacy? If it's the OS allowing use of the strike, then him being a coordinator already does that.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
"Hi, this young man is Kira, he has done some work for Morgenroete on Natural-use OSes, we have here a new version of the GUNDAM system that he will be installing to help you move your suits to safety. Obviously, you will need to let him in the cockpit to do the upgrade, please keep him safe while he helps keep your suit safe."

Versus:

"Hi, this is Kira, he is a Coordinator, can you please let him into your suit so he can pilot it and fight the other Coordinators who are coming to steal it? He is a citizen of Orb, not ZAFT, he will work to keep your new Earth Alliance suit safe. Trust."
Darkcore41 said:
Edit: Wouldn't using his own be just as justified?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
If his own OS is better than the one from Sahaku, sure, we can use that one instead. I was just under the impression that the one we got from Sahaku was better, though.
 
Last edited:
PistachioCookies said:
I mean, in-universe Cagalli just wants him to churn out OSes for her, but I was under the impression that we, the players, wanted him in the Strike.

"Hi, this young man is Kira, he has done some work for Morgenroete on Natural-use OSes, we have here a new version of the GUNDAM system that he will be installing to help you move your suits to safety. Obviously, you will need to let him in the cockpit to do the upgrade, please keep him safe while he helps keep your suit safe."
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
She's not going to do that if her whole mission is to guard top secret earth alliance hardware. Also why not use his own programming instead of the natural OS from the company. It wouldn't make a difference either way for this deception.

The upgrade is also a natural OS. Meaning why doesn't Ramius just pilot it herself all the way.

Might as well say the same thing and have Kira use coordinator magic to get it to move or just say a coordinator can move this Gundam. If she's desperate enough to trust a random person's word or on the word of Orb anyway.
 
Darkcore41 said:
She's not going to do that if her whole mission is to guard top secret earth alliance hardware.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It's an easier sell to Ramius to let him in the cockpit just to install a new OS, than to try and convince her that he can pilot the suit (which Kira would refuse to do anyway). Coordinators are the EA's enemies - telling her that he is one will make her point her gun at him.

Ideally, with introducing him as an OS technician, she'll think that she is going to be able to pilot the suit after he's done upgrading it and will try and still fail miserably because "better" OS still isn't "good" and then it will force Kira to take over (or rewrite the OS again on the fly) to save them.

Again, whether he uses his own or Sahaku's is just up to which one is better, we can even just give him Sahaku's and let him decide which one he thinks is better.
 
PistachioCookies said:
It's an easier sell to Ramius to let him in the cockpit just to install a new OS, than to try and convince her that he can pilot the suit (which Kira would refuse to do anyway). Coordinators are the EA's enemies - telling her that he is one will make her point her gun at him.

Ideally, with introducing him as an OS technician, she'll think that she is going to be able to pilot the suit after he's done upgrading it and will try and still fail miserably because "better" OS still isn't "good" and then it will force Kira to take over (or rewrite the OS again on the fly) to save them.

Again, whether he uses his own or Sahaku's is just up to which one is better, we can even just give him Sahaku's and let him decide which one he thinks is better.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
He's going to figure out which one is better in the middle of a combat zone? Also why even bother with either of them, of the end goal of for him to pilot? He will obvious pick to forgo both of jes the one piloting.

We're better off not doing anything special. They'll be forced to go into the cockpit anyway by the building explosion. All Kira has to do is be nearby to get into the cockpit. No need for anything extra.
 
Warmachine375 said:
It's now or never to deny Athrun and his team two Gundams while they take the remainder.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Ya that doesn't change what I'm saying. Leaving Kira near Ramius will end up with the same result as canon far as we know. It also introduced less moving parts that can go wrong.

Cagalli can on the other hand just go to the Aegis afterwards. That's the diplomacy check we have to make.
 
Darkcore41 said:
He's going to figure out which one is better in the middle of a combat zone? Also why even bother with either of them, of the end goal of for him to pilot? He will obvious pick to forgo both of jes the one piloting.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Uh, Kira didn't "just pilot" in canon. He literally needed to rewrite the OS of the Strike in combat time, before he could properly do it. So yes, I expect that he could do a comparison of the 2 pre-written OSes in the middle of combat too. Between choosing one to install and having to rewrite the base OS before piloting, the former is likely easier.

The circumstances of Kira being near Ramius are also different now.

In canon, he was near her because he saved her from getting shot and RAMIUS was the one who bundled him into the cockpit to keep him safe (with her originally trying to pilot it, before failing and needing Kira to rewrite the OS and take over). Here, we need a reason to keep Kira nearby and another reason for him to be let into the cockpit since he's not saving her life and she's not repaying the favor.
 
PistachioCookies said:
Uh, Kira didn't "just pilot" in canon. He literally needed to rewrite the OS of the Strike in combat time, before he could properly do it. So yes, I expect that he could do a comparison of the 2 pre-written OSes in the middle of combat too. Between choosing one to install and having to rewrite the base OS before piloting, the former is likely easier.

The circumstances of Kira being near Ramius are also different now.

In canon, he was near her because he saved her from getting shot and RAMIUS was the one who bundled him into the cockpit to keep him safe (with her originally trying to pilot it, before failing and needing Kira to rewrite the OS and take over). Here, we need a reason to keep Kira nearby and another reason for him to be let into the cockpit since he's not saving her life and she's not repaying the favor.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That's what the diplo check is for. To have him stay nearby. Things will then play out the same. Athruns is gonna run up for the kill, get distracted by Kira and an explosion happens that puts both Ramius and him in the cockpit.

As for Kira having to rewrite the strikes system. It worked better then the current natural OS when it was done. Zafts had to do the same and I don't even think it's a complete rewrite. Considering how fast all of them pulled it off.

My point in that case is Kira isn't in any rush anyway, that won't allow him to do the changes. Especially if your argument is he has the time to load up each individual os to see which one is better. With that same time he can just make it coordinator compatible.

Another thing to factor is if the mc gets the Aegis. I don't think Zaft is going to stick around if they lose the advantage like that. The ground soldiers will either have to push forward recklessly or pull back.
 
Last edited:
Darkcore41 said:
That's what the diplo check is for. To have him stay nearby. Things will then play out the same. Athruns is gonna run up for the kill, get distracted by Kira and an explosion happens that puts both Ramius and him in the cockpit.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I think you're missing the point here - the approach we take will affect the difficulty level of the DC.

No matter what we do, leaving Kira with Ramius will require a Diplomacy DC. But the way we do it will make it harder to pass or easier.
TurbojetTakeoff said:
[ ] Ask Kira to Stay Close with Cagalli / Stay with Murrue Ramius / Escape: While Kira would not take any active fighting actions, you may be able to convince him to take defensive choices [Diplomacy DC varies - Easy to Difficult]
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
"Diplomacy DC varies."

If we choose a stupid approach, like telling Ramius he is a Coordinator - the enemy race to the entire Earth Alliance - the difficulty will skyrocket.

If we choose a smoother approach, like telling Ramius he is going to upgrade the suit's OS so she can pilot it and have it run to safety, the difficulty will likely be much closer to "easy".

The question is, will this approach:
[X] The Cagalli Handbook - Chapter 1: Yell at them
- [X] Ask for help from Complain/browbeat Murrue Ramius into submission: Announce your presence. Knowing Captain Ramius, she probably would not kill you on sight. Probably. [Martial DC - Easy, then Diplomacy DC varies - Easy]
-- [X] Introduce yourself as a pissed-off Orb Official: Tell Murrue that you are a fairly important official/dignitary, who is very angry finding out about a certain deal EA made with the Sahaku family behind Orb's back yesterday and about the ZAFT task force outside the unarmed colony.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Where Cagalli does nothing except try to "browbeat" Ramius and complain and scream at her and hope she just backs down instead of screaming back, REALLY reduce the difficulty more than an approach where she tells Ramius she helped to call in a tip-off about terrorists at the port and that she has more information about the attackers?
-- [X] Get Demand Permission First: I'm getting into this mobile suit and defending this colony from its most likely destruction -- Cagalli the calm
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Would this "sound and fury" and childish demand approach REALLY reduce DC difficulty of getting permission to approach the Aegis more than promising to defend it and suggesting they take cover in the cockpit?
 
Last edited:
NegativeJ said:
-- [X] Give Kira the Hard drive with the Morgenröte OS: Give Kira some homework
-- [X] Tell them both to get into the Strike, as GINNs are heading straight into the colony: Ready or not here they come. The EA detachment of Moebius Mobile Armors are currently being slaughtered outside the colony.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Depends what you mean by homework? Cagalli could push the hard drive to Kira. But that's about it unless you meant something else?
Just a reminder that Kira at the moment is not on the team and his actions cannot be directly chosen. He can only be convinced subject to DC rolls.

PistachioCookies said:
Giving Kira the Morgenroete OS and telling him to install it in the Strike is a good idea for how to get him into the cockpit.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Cagalli can try to convince Kira to do this. May expect Diplomacy DC Failure other than Critical Success Roll.

Darkcore41 said:
Does she even know about the report? I thought they only told the port and security personal.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Cagalli also doesn't know if Ramius/Earth Alliance knows or not.

PistachioCookies said:
If his own OS is better than the one from Sahaku, sure, we can use that one instead. I was just under the impression that the one we got from Sahaku was better, though.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Cagalli reviewed it and confirmed that it's a prototype Natural-use OS. So it's probably worse than any OS that Kira improvises for his specific use.

PistachioCookies said:
No matter what we do, leaving Kira with Ramius will require a Diplomacy DC. But the way we do it will make it harder to pass or easier.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
In general yes.

Might also note that speaking to Ramius is a Martial and Diplomacy DC :V Just something for thoughts when deciding what to say to her/ EA forces.
 
TurbojetTakeoff said:
Cagalli can try to convince Kira to do this. May expect Diplomacy DC Failure other than Critical Success Roll.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Huh. So he'd really be resistant to working on a military suit with no warning.

Not sure what Cagalli can do to get him to stay with Ramius then, the most natural reaction would be for him to run to the shelter and they still have a slot open since Cagalli isn't taking it.
TurbojetTakeoff said:
Might also note that speaking to Ramius is a Martial and Diplomacy DC :V Just something for thoughts when deciding what to say to her/ EA forces.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Was under the impression that the Martial DC was because she'd have to fight her way through some of the ZAFT attackers just to reach Ramius.

If it's part of her actual chat with Ramius, it's looking like her best opener would be to start talking defensive tactics off the bat.
 
We should try to get him into the shelters. If he doesn't go in and still follows then he has no choice but to go to Ramius. He can't complain at that point. He has to get into the Gundam.
 
Darkcore41 said:
We should try to get him into the shelters. If he doesn't go in and still follows then he has no choice but to go to Ramius. He can't complain at that point. He has to get into the Gundam.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Coupd go with that. Narrative weight would still have us grab his escape pod probably. Except Kira has main character syndrome, if a very mild case at start. He'll be in that Gundam, just a question of time.

Wonder what calling out Athrun and Rusty by name would do.
 
Last edited:
OK, here's what I'm going to go with:

[X] Plan - I'll Steal Your Suit, Athrun
- [X] Ask for help from Murrue Ramius: Announce your presence. Knowing Captain Ramius, she probably would not kill you on sight. Probably.
-- [X] Introduce yourself as an Orb Official: Immediately inform Ramius that the assailants are ZAFT's elite Le Creuset team, here to steal the G-Weapons. Admit that Orb's Morgenroete also has a top-secret project being worked on in the colony, leeching off the G-Project data, that you are hoping to protect.

- [X] Ask Kira to Stay with Murrue Ramius: Tell Kira that his old friend Athrun Zala is part of the strike force imminently about to storm the factory and steal the suits. If he wants first-hand proof, he can stay near Ramius and see for himself while Cagalli joins the fight. But if he's too scared, he should just hide with everyone else in the shelters.

- [X] Get near GAT-X303 Aegis: You need to get on a mobile suit asap. And there may be a chance to get on the Aegis to deny ZAFT the suit.
-- [X] Announce your Intention: Declare that Athrun Zala, son of PLANT Defense Chairman Patrick Zala, is personally coming to steal the Aegis and that you are going to defend it from him. Suggest the defenders use the cockpit as a foxhole.
 
[X] Plan - I'll Steal Your Suit, Athrun

Sigh, as much as i would love to make the Cagalli Handbook a thing that lasts the entirety of this quest, lets be the adult we secretly are.

Adding my vote to this for now.

Then again we can recycle the Handbook Yell at them for the fight itself!
 
Last edited:
If we say we have assets in the area, like our own mobile suits, won't the question be why are we here instead of there using our own or protecting our own?

Also announcing the identity of the attackers means orb already knew about the attack from an outsider perspective. So why are they there with the G weapons and why didn't they warn them earlier. I feel as tho these are the questions that'll go through her head.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top