A Simple Transaction I

HoratioVonBecker said:

You know, another vengeance option we kinda completely missed at the time? Terminal Advent. Figuring out how to aim at the Hidden Ones would admittedly have been difficult, and the collateral damage thing is just unconscionable in normal circumstances, but having the ability to inflict the Apocryphal on HCB-level enemies is actually probably proportionate to shoving them through the Procession.

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We did have an option for 1/7 procs being of benefit to Hunger, and presumably 'hits an enemy with misfortune' would have been an acceptable way of that happening.

The Accursed seems to be asking us to rest as a selfless act. Vengeance would benefit his goals, thus the Accursed pluses, but time and again we've seen the Accursed be pleased with Hunger doing things for himself. Everything fishing related for example. I think, at heart, he doesn't want his cursebearers to suffer. Hunger has the opportunity to make a perfect ending, at the cost of his patrons goals. The Accursed wants him to take it. Not because the Accursed benefits, but because Hunger would no longer suffer the endless slog of progression that all who use the lathe of heaven must.

With that said, I don't think it's in Hungers nature to take it. Not the forebear reborn, but the Hunger we've gone through this whole quest with. I don't think hunger would abandon his patron, even if his patron asked him to. I don't think hunger would stop when the chance of victory remains. The choice is the same one he's always made, to cut through the obstacles in his way to the ending he desires.

It seems to come down, as always, to a simple conundrum. If home is where the heart is, then ... where is that?

Ultimately.. on whose behalf is Hunger conducting Vengeance for?

There is another incredibly good reason to go for Freedom; Enemies to Lover is best trope and anyone who disagrees has trash taste. Let's be honest, this is why we are probably getting the Accursed Favour, he ships it too. The dreaded Shipping Curse has no escape even for one such as him ...

Not if the Enemy to Lover in question is trash though lol.

DkArthas said:

There is another incredibly good reason to go for Freedom; Enemies to Lover is best trope and anyone who disagrees has trash taste. Let's be honest, this is why we are probably getting the Accursed Favour, he ships it too.

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Tbh I just have zero attachment to Hungers wife. As much as I think Gisena is a massive Mary Sue propped up by backer dollars, at least she has been around for long enough that we have a connection to her as players. Same can't be said for Hungers wife, she simply has not been prominent enough in discussion or flashbacks for me to feel good about voting for. That's the meta voting logic for why I really don't like freedom, we're compromising on the final battle for a character I frankly don't care about.

Fair enough. I trust Rihaku to write her well and i am still very curious about Catherine, it doesn't seem likely we will get a chance to know more about her without this. Not to mention more Maiden and Foremost lore...

Honestly, going this way with Nameless turned out pretty well too. I am more than happy to take the plunge since what we know of her already paints a very interesting picture.

GenericName said:

Tbh I just have zero attachment to Hungers wife. As much as I think Gisena is a massive Mary Sue propped up by backer dollars, at least she has been around for long enough that we have a connection to her as players. Same can't be said for Hungers wife, she simply has not been prominent enough in discussion or flashbacks for me to feel good about voting for. That's the meta voting logic for why I really don't like freedom, we're compromising on the final battle for a character I frankly don't care about.

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Supposedly, we shouldn't judge her based on Cathelynn, so I'm optimistic that she's closer to Gisena than the garbage can with the bag on the outside.

Cathelynn was cool though...not many willing to take up arms against our boy and those who do are based imo.

I still don't agree no matter how much you try hyping her up.

Foremost more like Mid-at-most lol.

When your faction is introduced with a motherfucking Jojo reference, it's all uphill from there.

Current vote count?

qwolfs said:

You don't have to worry about it at all. Rihaku has explicitly said that the expected outcome of Vengeance benefits the Victorious World more than Freedom. That is an undeniable positive for Vengeance.

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That's... not quite what Rihaku said?

Rihaku said:

3) From an expected-value standpoint, as best Hunger or anyone around him can tell, he most hastens the Victorious World by choosing Vengeance. Haeliel seems to be more in agreement with this than not. The Accursed, aside from what he's already said, keeps his own counsel.

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There is considerably more nuance in this statement than you claim there is (in particular, the statement is compatible with the Accursed having some private information that change the balance of evidence)! It's best to quote the whole statement when claiming that Rihaku has said something, as to communicate all the nuances and so other can verify the information for themselves.

[X] Freedom

It's a hard choice, but for me it comes down to this:
If you had one chance, one opportunity, to avoid taking every drawback in the chase of the shiny, would you take it? Hell yes.
Really, can there be anything more subversive in a rihaku quest?

Oh my, we have an actual chance! Not what I was expecting, honestly!

Anyway, random aside, I have some new fiction recs since this CYOA thread's last activity period. I figured I'd share them, since it seems likely that many of you have similar tastes.
Aurora is basically a JRPG plot if the first three party members are each connected to a different apocalyptic plotline. (And many of the random encounters were skipped, because webcomic.) Cool worldbuilding, fun characters, it's a lot of fun. The intro is clearer if you can read the alt text, though that's been copied to the comments section for mobile readers.
The Sword Interval is a monsterhunting webcomic with some pretty impressive interplay between the monsters-of-the-week and the myth arc, and some fantastic art, and I really love how the folk-magic plants are used. And the characterization is really good. My largest reservation in reccing it is that there's a little bit of cheesecake of a character in a committed relationship - not even seemingly from her SO's perspective, just extradiagetic voyeurism - which was creepy. That said, it was one page, and not full nudity. Use your best judgement.
Unfathomable Power is an urban fantasy novel about a paranoid warlock, and despite some mild need for copyediting, is a pretty decent urban fantasy. The main character's choice to coerce murderers into signing away their posthumous existence on his behalf is morally questionable, but I enjoyed it anyway.

A crisis has broken out. A Time Crash has resulted from the final clash between the Odious Antinarrator, Malicious Anticoder, Lemony Narrator, and Thoughtful Coder. They suspect that the potential entities that would have resulted from the OA and MA succeeding in Corrupting and absorbing them, the Wretches, had reached backwards in time to screw things up in an act of spite for their existence being prevented, crashing several different worlds together just as the Ultimate Evil-Inator was fired, shoving a prism into the path of the beam, causing a huge number of heroes to become evil, leading to a Villainous World. The Nickelodeon, Cartoon Network, Disney, PBS Kids, and Netflix multiverses have merged with the homeworld of the LM and TC, already a fantasy kitchen sink with everything from living warheads created by cultists, to ordinary gunmen, to aliens, anthorpomorphic animals, to Hatsune Miku, to angels and demons, to animated plungers, causing mass chaos as various factions and sub-factions come into conflict.

You see, the UEI not only turns whoever is hit by it evil, but also grants a significant general competence boost. The Evil Simpsons, Hills, Griffins, Smiths, and Belchers have forged a powerful alliance dominating much of the North American continent, thanks in part due to Evil Fry roping one Bender Rodriguez into the matter, while Evil Scrooge McDuck has economic dominance over much of the globe. Cognito Inc's machinations have become far more vile with what good aspects they had purged under Evil Reagan's leadership. The Shadow Board has resorted to calling upon her former social circle from their perfect timelines, under the justification that they would have been targets sooner or latter, and working openly with various heroic, government, and villainous organizations to try and stem the tide.

Speaking of the global stage, as opposed to the street level Evil Heroes, the Evilized Wordgirl was captured being hit by the Ultimate Evil-Inator on camera shortly before Fair City was placed under her iron fist, and given her sudden 180 in morality, people put 2 and 2 together on the other heroes across the abruptly fused worlds having gone bad. Many of their former allies and even Rogues have been working to reverse the effects, but it's been slow going. The Evil Heroes have no more interest in being turned good than they would have in being turned evil. Any successful efforts are undone by one Evilized Timmy Turner, now aligned with the Anti-Fairies, and though he doesn't really care about their social circles, he was quick to turn his own to his cause. The confidence boost also helped him sort out the situation with Trixie, Sabrina, Tootie, Missy, and Chloe.

Then there's the universal stage. While TT technically sits here, he doesn't really care enough to act much on it, preferring to mess around on Earth and it's connected civilizations. Evilized Spongebob can use his full Toonforce abilities at will, making him fully capable of destroying universes at will, for example, and is one of the most powerful of the Evil Heroes, to the point Krabs and Plankton have put aside their differences to work alongside others to contain him. Evil Wander and Evil Steven get along like a house on fire, and by 'house' I mean galaxy.

This is not to say there isn't hope. A number of redeemed villains from the various worlds have also joined hands to try and clean up this mess.

First, select your character. Characters will generally operate at an appropriate level and use their skills appropriately. Majin wouldn't be expected to resolve issues of intrigue like Black Impostor. Similarly, science-related issues are likely to be relegated to Doctor D, while problems best solved with a lot of fire will be the domain of Father.

[ ] Black Impostor.

The original Impostor of Among Us, hence their presence in the Report alert. Some believe it to have been a female parasite infecting a male crewmate. Others that it was akin to an Exe. Whatever the case, they slaughtered millions over the years, but slowly grew weary of the endless cycle, eternally the Impostor. Even if you enjoy your task immensely, if you have any capacity for self-reflection, being forced to do something over and over will lead to bitterness and resentment sooner or later.

In his pre-Corruption days, the Lemony Narrator went on quite a few escapades, including being sucked into various other worlds. Undertale, Cuphead, Bendy and the Ink Machine, a plethora of Sonic.Exes, and even Among Us. Whereupon he encountered Black Impostor, and, being a stupid person forced into a killing game combined with a murder mystery, was killed quite a few times before he was able to move it to his preferred mode of combat, singing. Upon beating Black twice, he was able to break their cycle, and aided them in making a new start.

Black has literal years of experience in assassination, sabotage, deceit, be it acting or directly lying to someone's face, and is an expert at muchkinery, as it was one of the few respites from the repetition in their cycle of killing. They also possess a pocket dimension of sorts within them where they used to store their kills. The bodies the Crewmates and Impostors possess upon starting a new round are entirely new, rather than healed versions of their old ones. Seeing as it had room enough for millions of bodies, it's quite large.

[ ] Majin Sonic.

On an individual basis, not the most powerful of the options. Indeed, rather than being 'redeemed' in the sense that he was actively committing wrongdoings, he was instead prodded into action against Xenophanes by the Lemony Narrator, who had dragged the latter into his world prior to the Corruption incident. Majin and pre-Corruption Narrator bested him and freed his captives, with the latter returning to his own world afterward.

Majin is an outwardly cheerful fellow, but his backstory is tragic. He accidentally set off a self-destruct mechanism while fighting Eggman, leading to the destruction of Little Planet, and the deaths of Tails and Amy. He went a little mad, but was mostly harmless, content to simply sit in the gaps between worlds.

He isn't particularly stronger than his original self, but he is capable of creating clones of himself, possibly an outgrowth of his loneliness and fear of failing again. How many? Infinity. Between that and his ability to hide between worlds(and traverse worlds as a result) he is almost unkillable. Not in the sense that he can't be killed, but in the sense that destroying any individual body is meaningless. Each clone is a discrete entity as well, making conceptual attacks intended to destroy them all using one like a voodoo doll difficult to pull off. Beyond that, he can do everything the classic Sonic can do. Give him a set of Chaos Emeralds, and you could be looking at hundreds, thousands of Super Sonics.

[ ] Benedict 'Father' Uno.

Once the bane of the KND. The Time Crash seems have unintentionally caused him to reduce his father to ashes in a confrontation not meant to occur. It says a lot that this was probably the healthiest interaction they'd ever had. This left him aimless, as he'd spent almost his entire life living in the shadow of his father.

Between some talks with his brother, the still-Recommissioned Sector Z(the Time Crash seems to have made it permanent, either that or the death of Grandfather struck some kind of metaphysical blow to Delightfulization), and actually reading the Book of KND, and he is, if not fully heroic, then certainly on the side of good. He remains Numbuh 1's most dire opponent, the latter having allied himself to the Galactic KND without much fuss.

Father possesses a set of powers that almost seem made up. Levitation, general telekinesis, duplication(though the duplicates are fragile), shapeshifting good enough to fool close allies or turn into a dragon, and his most famous ability, pyromancy. These powers grow stronger as he grows angrier, which is a bit of a problem as he has difficulty calling up the same level of rage at will these days, but as he works to self-actualize, he has less trouble.

He does possess a weakness to cold and water, but his mind remains one of his most important assets. While not a reality-warping level of scientist, he can build mechas, robots, and design massive edifices with laser defenses, is a capable planner, and is tapping into a deeper well of occult power and knowledge with his new and old contacts. He has one of the largest organizations in the group, having managed to retain control of most of the KND Rogues despite his own heel-face turn, though this was admittedly at least partially due to the sheer chaos going on. Several of the more geographically inclined members of the organization believe the planet is at least 11 times it's original size, among other things.

[ ] Doctor Doofenschmirtz.

The one who built the Ultimate Evil-Inator. A scientist who seems to embody Clarketech. His technology is sufficiently advanced that it might as well be magic. Interdimensional portals, time travel(the inventor of it in his home timeline, in fact), turning things into bread, various brainwashing and Evilizing rays, a whale translator, a device to turn past bad memories into evil energy, and so on.

His terrible childhood has left him a tremendously petty man, though usually harmless. He does have moments of terrifying competency, such as only being prevented in destroying the feeling of love on a state-wide level because he had a date and didn't want to preemptively sabotage himself. In this case, one of his most dangerous Inators was hijacked by the Wretches as part of the Time Crash. While the Lemony Narrator and Thoughtful Coder have explained that he was taken advantage of, he still feels responsible. He's not a mad scientist! His daughter lives here! Perry the Platypus lives here! Norm, his ex-wife, and his brother live here! Even his parents live here!

He has elected to take the continued existence of the planet and the wider universe into his own hands, from upgrading the traps of his allies to turn their abodes into veritable fortresses, to upgrading Norm beyond his Weaponry phase and having him lead a horde of mass-produced Norm bots to various crisis areas, to building custom Inators for various problems, to directly countering Evil Heroes with their own technological expertise, and working on a mobile Re-Good-Inator to be deployed against Evil Timmy so the others can be returned to normal on a permanent basis. While not the most powerful member of this alliance, he probably fills the Big Good role the best.

His Artifice threatens to enter the realm of mythology. Considering how quickly he figured out time travel, he could probably create his own Infinity Stones if he was properly motivated. And he is. He has issues with poor social abilities and management of his time and resources, however. Though he has been working on that.

[ ] Lemony Narrator.

One of the two strongest members of this group. Technically a redeemed Odious Antinarrator, as his component halves are the original consciousnesses of the Odious and Antinarrator entities. He possesses 1,000,000 times his base ISH 5 strength in Time, song, narrative, and purification, and the ability to copy the souls of himself and his girlfriend in unlimited numbers, as well as duplicating the souls of specific individuals he focuses on, and as a large repetoire of magics. He and the Thoughtful Coder are easily the strongest of the group... but outside a fight or their specialties, they're idiots. Their Combat Int is something to behold, bordering on precognition, but they're morons. The Antinarrator happened in the first place because of their screwups.

Still, they're both charismatic and have on several occasions turned enemies into allies, as well as made bystanders act on their behalf. In addition, the pair successfully defeating their Corrupted counterparts is the only reason there's anything left to save. They also possess a ludicrous number of acquaintances and contacts, though they aren't a distinct organization so much as a loose coalition they can call up for favors. Including the frankly ridiculous number of family members he has. He is related to Hatsune Miku, who seems to be a regular person instead of a holographic AI in his native timeline.

LN appears as a short young man with blue hair, angelic wings, and glowing eyes, a blue halo with 4 spokes, two of which are connected by a bar going across it, with similar blue rings appearing around his body on a regular basis, a red hat and coat, the latter in the style of Santa Clause, alongside an almost disappointingly plain set of pants and shoes. He is capable of reverting to a less conspicuous form, though this restricts his abilities somewhat.

[ ] Thoughtful Coder.

A demoness, the daughter of two of the most powerful demons in her home timeline, and the girlfriend of the Lemony Narrator. While the two are the epitome of idiots in love, she possesses some impressive skills of her own. Even pre-Corruption, she possessed sufficient skill with Magic to effortlessly block Xenophanes' attacks. She is similarly potent as her boyfriend's mastery over Time in that realm, as well as in Artifice, Space, and purification. She possesses all the same extra magics as her boyfriend, as well as the ability to produce blank bodies copying their own en masse and specific bodies perfectly suited to place specific souls into with focus.

She is normally content to sit back and enable her boyfriend's shenanigans/protect him on the sly from bad actors(like Xenophanes), but this scenario is sort of their fault, and so they've stepped in to try and wrangle things. She is slightly wiser than her counterpart, though no less stupid in the conventional way. For instance, she knows her parents are overprotective of her to the point of madness, but she keeps showing off her boyfriends to them, which has gotten at least one cursed with an invisible body and forced to wear a goat skull by her father, and her mother is both more powerful and more clever about it. The Lemony Narrator was simply strong enough(and stupid enough) to stick around, and has more or less won them over through sheer bloody minded stubbornness in his pursuit of TC.

Her list of personal contacts is slightly smaller, discounting overlap, but no less strange, as her closest friend is an angel. Unlike her boyfriend, her family is small, though she keeps a close eye on romantic rivals, ironically a closer one than her boyfriend does, as he's usually one to gently turn down any advances besides hers.

She prefers to stick with her more human base form where she simply appears like a short human girl with long brown hair, a red dress, and red heels, though in her full glory, she has a a set of demonic horns forming a crude crown(funnily enough, she keeps these in her base form, they're just hidden by her hair), with golden numbers appearing and disappearing around her, and a similar glow to her eyes, as well as dark purple skin like her parents.

The Time Crash shook a number of things loose, not to mention opportunities in the wreckage. You have 4 Minor Adjustments, 2 Temporal Corrections, and 1 Rewind.
[ ] Mirror World - 1 Minor Adjustment.

Doctor D has experience dealing with alternate dimensions, even if he doesn't remember it, and so he was able to open a portal between the two. His hypothesis was that it was likely that if the two worlds reflected each other, then Mirror World was doing much better. He was correct. Not enormously better, seeing as there wasn't a bout of Goodified Villains to match the Evilized Heroes, but definitely not as bad as the mainline universe.

An option that's more useful in terms of Potential than anything else. Bringing in Mirror Benedict and Mirror Toiletnator to help their mainline selves with their self-actualization(and vice versa, since the former Mirror counterpart has the same powers, but lacks the spine to use them, and the latter has all but been subsumed by his god) is simple enough, for example.

[ ] The Citadel - 1 Minor Adjustment.

The former base of the Antinarrator, left to rot after his defeat. Existing in a span of dead timelines reduced to a black nothingness, it can be made a secure base of operations without issue, as it recognized the Lemony Narrator as it's master, and even accessing it is difficult without either his permission or ISH 5 mastery of Time. If not selected, it disintegrated upon the Odious Antinarrator's defeat.

[ ] Omega Timeline - 1 Minor Adjustment.

A place of refuge for those whose universes and timelines have collapsed. The Time Crash has simply smashed them together as well, rather than destroying them. It's relatively easy to access, at least for beings like The Lemony Narrator and Thoughtful Coder, though this makes it somewhat less secure. There are a huge number of individuals here, various survivors of timelines and universes the Odious Antinarrator and Malicious Anticoder destroyed in their mad quest. Thus, it offers a huge number of people who could potentially help, and it's always open to those willing to make a new start.

While it will be unavailable if not selected, due to being ripped to shreds from many different Omega Timelines being crudely squashed together, this is easy enough to fix once the multiverse isn't on fire and LN and TC can spare some time for it. Or a number of other cosmic entities, for that matter.

[ ] Aku, Shapeshifting Master of Evil - 1 Minor Adjustment.

An ally of convenience, revived by the Time Crash, and effectively a Boxed Crook having an eye kept on him by the various higher powers of the setting. While certainly a galaxy-level threat even while only taking it half-seriously, he is of limited utility in actually restoring the Evil Heroes. His expertise lies in spreading evil, not removing it. That being said, he is nigh-unkillable without specific abiliities or items, such as a purified shard of his own evil. The purification powers of the LN and TC should be capable of killing him if he becomes truly out line, which is one the reasons he would be released to your custody if you choose this option.

A master of the occult. He could bring back the dead within Black Impostor's pocket space as an army of Husks millions strong, vulnerable only to complete destruction like Necromorphs, or purifying attacks. He is also surprisingly competent at general management, though in the centuries between his first fight with Samurai Jack and the latter's reappearance he might have simply figured it out via trial and error. This is merely one example.

[ ] Lord Gomova - 1 Minor Adjustment.

A man who obtained a mystical coin that could affect the balance of order and chaos, and flipped the coin to chaos. Humbled by the sheer magnitude of the disaster, he has decided to put his own plans for multiversal conquest and destruction on hold in favor of ensuring there is still a universe to conquer. He has an army of demons of sufficient magnitude to besiege an infinity of timelines and conceivable universes, though no individual demon is more powerful than a city-block leveler, and he himself is only on the level of a city leveler.

If not selected, he will be a minor but ever-present threat, ready to pounce on any weakness in any faction anywhere.

[ ] Eyes of the Universe - 1 Minor Adjustment.

The Eyes have deemed it better to be proactive than reactive in this instance, and so every star in the sky is your ally.

If not selected, the Eyes will simply protect the neighborhood of the kids they befriended, not wanting to risk some random villain, monster, or Evil Hero destroying the place.

[ ] Mirror Dimension - 1 Temporal Correction.

Reflections are entities of their own, assigned to copy the actions of a person whenever they are in front of a mirror of some kind, up to and including death. Should they stray from this, the punishment is death. Doctor D and the rest of the group found this appalling, with Father remarking that at least he brainwashed Sector Z to enjoy their time serving under him. While he was looked at askance for that, the sentiment was there. With all the chaos percolating through higher and lower dimensions, the authority behind this has collapsed, allowing Reflections to be freed en masse.

An opportunity to effectively double-up on your heroes, though reflections are their own people, and thus not always inclined to like their counterparts very much. Lemony Narrator and Thoughtful Coder note that it's a good thing their Corrupted counterparts didn't realize this was a thing, because they'd have totally absorbed their Reflections and become unstoppable.

[ ] Keyforging - 1 Temporal Correction.

Control over the dark emotion of Hate and it's counterpart Love, and the interdimensional energies of Chaos, Nightmare Mode, and the Glitch has allowed for enough of the principles of the heart to be understood for these to be granted. Strength of Heart requirements remain in effect, but these are otherwise free to be tossed around like candy and function as normal. A focus for magic, a blade that can be duller than a wooden sword or sharp enough to slice through a city block without effort, locking/unlocking of both mundane and conceptual varieties, shifting the weapon's form, using bonds to gain power, etc.

[ ] Boy And Girl - 1 Temporal Correction.

Part of a pantheon representing various aspects of creation and life, ruled by the King of Time and the Queen of Space. While the majority of their pantheon is busy keeping reality from collapsing into a mass of paradoxes, their powers are ill-suited for that, so they've elected to scout out the heart of the mess, and check on the kid they used to babysit, LN.

Boy and Girl are siblings, representing the masculine and feminine, sort of like Ying and Yang. They can take on any form, provided it's not feminine for the former and not masculine for the latter. Their full forms are not as strong as The Odious Antinarrator, but they are still easily in the third and fourth most powerful slots of the group. They're great with kids, and they can offer advice from the various higher beings of the setting, who have weight of experience and knowledge on LN and TC.

[ ] The Kindness - 1 Temporal Correction.

Once a lonely sentient black hole, capable of eating the universe, and feared and hated for it and it's terrifying appearance. However, the kindness of Timmy Turner, the Chosen One, in deciding to blast something nice into it for once granted it a more pleasant form, allowing it's better nature to shine through. Having heard what befell it's friend, it has elected to help.

While benevolent, The Kindness' primary concern is restoring it's first friend to his senses. This may cause problems.

[ ] Trained Nightmare - 1 Rewind.

Allows The Lemony Narrator and Thoughtful Coder to access Nightmare Mode on the regular, having trained it to that point, not unlike Goku's efforts with Super Saiyan. This is a significant powerup, capable of turning a one-sided battle completely around. Think of it like a Heroic Advancement focused on raw combat power for whoever uses it.

[ ] Ultra Instinct Shaggy - 1 Rewind.

Just as powerful as the Antinarrator's base form as of 100%, and his maximum is 1,000,000%, though this is a logarithmic scale where each percent is worth more. He came back for another round, only to find LN and TC were too busy trying to keep reality from falling apart. Not to mention his favorite sandwich shop in this universe had been destroyed by a rampaging Evil Hero. Deciding this wouldn't do, he has elected to assist.

AN: Well, I learned my lesson from my Antinarrator CYOA. This time you're playing as an unambiguous good guy. They just used to be a bad guy. Well, for a given value of 'used to' and 'bad guy' anyway.

4065 words, discounting this line.

I brought up before that "Victorious World" is a phrasing Rihaku has not used on this whole forum before the last update, which sent me into paranoia about WhoMSt'D'vE?!?

'Cause I was preeeetty sure it wasn't the Accursed, but without offering an alternative my argument was much weaker than my certainty. So I finally bit the bullet and searched for "victory." Lots of posts about victory chances.

Anyway, the Victorious World is the Apocalypse. Odyssial's talks about victory (against inevitable odds) pretty often, but it's not the victory itself he's obsessed with. Meanwhile, Doctor Apocalypse is the one that broods about how his inevitable victory keeps getting stolen from him, and in the first update of his thread

Rihaku said:

You have stood at the precipice of victory more times than you can remember. Each time, you were defeated. The world was ever in your reach, but always beyond your grasp.

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Victory+World, and in a later one,

Rihaku said:

I accept, he told Aria, contingent of the Five's full acceptance of my terms. They are very simple. Upon my victory and at my leisure, Skyveil and I will collaborate on a new Creation, the parameters of which will be defined by me, and which will include a Working customized to my specifications. In addition, all reasonable terms and precautions will apply. They agree to honor the spirit of this agreement.

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He talks about making a new Creation upon his victory. I'll have to refresh my memory of the whole thread, but I do think this is it. Memory refreshed, it's a really short thread. He also won't shut up about taking over the world, as expected from a comic book supervillain. It looks like making a new universe was the voters' idea, that's cool.

I almost want to say that's the Voyaging Realm, but that's already happened. Maybe that was just practice?

There's a lot in there that at the very least echoes things in this thread.

Rihaku said:

The advancements that bring up Apocalypse in this quest are these-
[ ] Sky Veil [7 Arete] - Just as the sky emblazons one's majesty, so too can it do the inverse, serving as a curtain drawn against the solar blaze of superhuman will. In addition to allowing the wearer to voluntarily decrease his Charisma +s in increments of 25% (without affecting associated Attributes like Protection from Vigor Itself! A rare trait), it also increases Protection by +++++ and AGI by ++. Allows the Evening Sky to disguise its appearance, taking on the semblance of the morning or noonday sky, or even of an ordinary cloak - much as it may despise such diminishment. Unlocks stealth- and disguise-based Advancements, including Conjunctional effects with Aeira.

*With the power of disguise comes the power, to scam...
*May provoke a certain individual. But you can probably take him. Right?

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Rihaku said:

[ ] Terminal Advent - The arrival of the Apocryphal Armament presages the end of eras, the rupturing of destiny, the annihilation of villains and heroes alike. All are carried away before its flood of epochal destruction: against which none can withstand, and after which the cycle begins anew.

*Special: Even without using its Ultimate, the Armament inflicts a mitigated version of the Apocryphal Curse against any opponents it directly challenges.
*The Armament's Ultimate unleashes an apocalyptic flood of misfortune upon the target and the target's allies, nation, territories and periphery.
*In conjunction with the Armament's actual attacks, a devastating blow that can sunder nations and topple empires. No throne is safe from this walking apocalypse.
*Reconciles you with Dr. Apocalypse, should you encounter him. Recall that he would previously attack you due to the Skyveil advancement.

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Alright. Dr. Apocalypse deeply resents living in a story universe, where the villains are destined to always lose to the heroes. It's clear why he likes Terminal Advent.

I'm less sure of why Sky Veil pissed him off. Sure, Skyveil was his nemesis, the strongest hero, and in some ways even more of a cheater than he was, but there wasn't actually that much animosity between them in the story. She even went, "you are bad guy, but you are not bad guy" at one point. I don't think it's about the person. But he despises diminishment as much as the Evening Sky does. As much as Summer in Heaven resented the diminishment of Fall?

I'm confused, let me zoom out.

But for there to be Progression, the Lathe of Heaven must turn the sky, so Summer can eat shit, we aren't him. From the perspective of a Cursebearer, the rising cycle is a drill. But Sky Veil was stepping back when we could instead have turned and moved forward in another direction? Seems a bit tangential to the point.

Wait, I zoomed out too far. Ever since.... not Sky Veil, but the Opalescent Tower it allowed us to eat, Hunger has been the master of Heaven. And like the Seasons and the Titans, it's from him that smothering fate emanates, that idiot balls are distributed.

The same reason for Ceathlynn's opposition? Well, maybe he's just jealous instead. Our cape is cooler, too.

Moving on. If the Victorious World is related to Dr. Apocalypse, where would Hunger have picked up the meme? From... the Shard of the Arcanist in Gisena, when she blasted the Blood Halo? Eh. More likely when we ate the Shogun to get that advancement in the first place. Still eh.

I think I'm more confused now. I have too many tabs open, I read about way too many crown jewels, and I need a chart associating seasons with concepts.

But a hypothetical Apocalypse Victorious World probably wouldn't be too terrible at least, he's a pretty nice supervillain. Might suck for Hunger though.

ilbgar123 said:

Redeemed Villains CYOA​

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[ ] Thoughtful Coder.
[ ] Boy And Girl - 1 Temporal Correction.

Boy and Girl have, at least some, wisdom, which is pretty much what the Coder and Antinarrator lack.

Alternatively, Doofenschmirtz + Shaggy would work pretty well. Doofenschmirtz has endless inators and shaggy has the power to fight anyone be needs to.

So are the Hidden Ones around High Cursebearer level or even above them?

If anybody has noticed/knowns lore considering that I would be interested hearing it.

Hot take: Hunger basically promised the Accursed a vote marker, and the Accursed is calling it in now. To vote Vengeance is a betrayal of the vote trading system!

ImperatorV said:

Hot take: Hunger basically promised the Accursed a vote marker, and the Accursed is calling it in now. To vote Vengeance is a betrayal of the vote trading system!

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but you see, Rihaku said vote markers aren't allowed for this vote! The Accursed made a mistake and called is vote market too late!

Pittauro said:

but you see, Rihaku said vote markers aren't allowed for this vote! The Accursed made a mistake and called is vote market too late!

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How dare you be funnier then me.

Anyway memes aside, I have to say I'm pleasantly surprised by how even this vote has been. The way things were going early on suggested a Vengeance blowout, but it's nice to know that about half the thread sees the value in Freeing Hunger from the endless procession of strife.