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A Flame of Hope in the Grim Darkness (A 40k/Multicross Quest)

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The vote first.
@BobTheNinja, you mentioned that no Vajra are going to show up, but please, I beg you to reconsider. Even though they can only talk to Ranka and Sheryl, that makes them more interesting as a part of the story, and new utahimes may be born as a result of V-type infection anyway.

Also, the Warhammer 40k has no need of imported idols from Macross ; they already have their own.

After finding this, I'm kind of regretting Star Trek wasn't picked.

Sure, they're boring compared to superpowered idols and transforming mecha planes, and what little I know of the Prime Directive does not fill me with confidence, but unlike NUNS's progressively ambitious attempts to join Gundam UC's Earth Federation on the list of governments that are only heroic because they fight crazed lunatics*, the Star Trek Federation government seems to be mostly composed of okayish people.**
*Completely unrelated, but Gjallarhorn from Gundam IBO does not fit into that category, as despite what some people say, they are mostly definitely the villains of the story. (And Tekkadan are the heroes. So what, they had to join a company that vaguely resembled the Mafia/Yakuza because there was literally no other option to ensure their continued survival.) Ugh, the rocket launcher from Destiny is far more deserving of that cool name than that band of nespotic self-serving assholes.
**I've never watched a single full episode of Start Trek, and my knowledge of it comes from snippets found on the Internet and perhaps a vaguely remembered fanfic or two, so I could be horribly wrong about this.
 
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StarSingerBlue said:
The vote first.
@BobTheNinja, you mentioned that no Vajra are going to show up, but please, I beg you to reconsider. Even though they can only talk to Ranka and Sheryl, that makes them more interesting as a part of the story, and new utahimes may be born as a result of V-type infection anyway.

Also, the Warhammer 40k has no need of imported idols from Macross ; they already have their own.
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Are we begging the QM for things?

Neat,my turn then :V

Dont nerf the traveler,i love how is basically this absolute ball of power.....thay just happens to be too kind to use its full power because it doesnt want to hurt weaker species through collateral or call unwanted attention (aka being as powerful as her deciding to attack her or his protege species)
 
VaguelyLeft said:
Yeah, I was disappointed when I saw there wasn't really anyone voting for the Federation since it seemed like such an obviously good choice to me. Better than Mass Effect anyway, which I'm still not convinced has either a truly good faction or technology that would cover anything the others don't already cover.
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As much as I like Star Trek.....I really don't want involve the Federation.

Mostly because of the Prime Directive.

I have.......... problems with it. As much as I understand why it was created, certain situations that involve it are icky.
 
JoeHalo said:
As much as I like Star Trek.....I really don't want involve the Federation.

Mostly because of the Prime Directive.

I have.......... problems with it. As much as I understand why it was created, certain situations that involve it are icky.
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Yeah, I mean, I'm not a fan of the absolutism of the Prime Directive (nor the idea that some cultures are more "advanced" than others) I think it's generally better than keeping an open door to imperialism, which is a thing with NUN I believe, and most of the other civilizations. I mean, it's definitely morally unacceptable when a planet is blowing up and they won't move the people off, morally equivalent to genocide I'd even say, but they're at least trying to avoid imperialism, which is good in a way.
 
VaguelyLeft said:
Yeah, I mean, I'm not a fan of the absolutism of the Prime Directive (nor the idea that some cultures are more "advanced" than others) I think it's generally better than keeping an open door to imperialism, which is a thing with NUN I believe, and most of the other civilizations. I mean, it's definitely morally unacceptable when a planet is blowing up and they won't move the people off, morally equivalent to genocide I'd even say, but they're at least trying to avoid imperialism, which is good in a way.
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Exactly!

There are certain situations where the Prime Directive should be followed, yes.

But when it involves helping people who really need that help, especially in extreme situations......the Prime Directive is like a wall.
 
JoeHalo said:
Exactly!

There are certain situations where the Prime Directive should be followed, yes.

But when it involves helping people who really need that help, especially in extreme situations......the Prime Directive is like a wall.
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Yeah, I mean it's definitely a major issue, but I would still argue that on average the Federation was probably the least fucked up of the factions. Except for the ones I knew nothing about like the Eorzea Alliance or UNION, for all I know they run a literal utopia.
 
VaguelyLeft said:
Yeah, I mean it's definitely a major issue, but I would still argue that on average the Federation was probably the least fucked up of the factions. Except for the ones I knew nothing about like the Eorzea Alliance or UNION, for all I know they run a literal utopia.
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Don't know much about UNION.

The Eorzean Alliance, while great, still has its own problems like any other civilization.

Plus, they've only recently gained space travel thanks to the Loporrits. Everything else is basically........the best comparison I have is certain DnD settings but with more Magitek.

Edit:

Oh, and A LOT of teachable magic.
 
...all of this is irrelevant as factions have already been chosen and are not subject to change....
 
VaguelyLeft said:
Yeah, I mean it's definitely a major issue, but I would still argue that on average the Federation was probably the least fucked up of the factions. Except for the ones I knew nothing about like the Eorzea Alliance or UNION, for all I know they run a literal utopia.
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Eorzea is not perfect utopia but they do have the advantage of their leader/head of state being genuinely good and competence people who care a lot.
 
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Economic System Vote
  • Threadmarks
    • Alright, for now, I'll go ahead and proceed to the next major policy vote.

    Now that the coalition's basic governing organization has been decided, the next major topic to address is how the economy will be run and managed. Each of the factions came with their own goods and infrastructure, and while much of it automatically falls under government and military control, the rest will need to be allocated in some way.

    The choices available are roughly as follows:

    [] Capitalist Economy - A fairly standard mixed market industrial/service economy, with most non-critical civilian infrastructure and capital being relinquished to private ownership. Initial allocation will be fairly equitable and based on merit. Can allow for dynamic productivity, but will most likely introduce problems of inequality, class conflict, monopolistic pressures, excessive focus on profit, and political influence accrued by the wealthy, unless diligently regulated.

    [] Social Liberal Economy - A mixed market economy with a much greater commitment to universal welfare services and public utilities, as well as expansive rights and protections for workers, though still allowing a largely privatized economy. May fall into the same pitfalls as a Capitalist economy over time.

    [] Centralized Socialist Economy - A system in which most civilian capital is subject to public control by means of an expansive government administrative body run by the federal government, making extensive use of planning, computational power, networking, and citizen requisitions in order to steer the whole of the economy. Will likely run into issues of trust in such an expansive organization.

    [] Decentralized Socialist Economy - A system in which most civilian capital is subject to public control, mostly in the form of local and regional co-operatives and other community organizations based on democratic governance, with private ownership largely being limited to personal-scale businesses. Ensures broad and highly equitable allocation of capital and resources, but may experience co-ordination problems at larger scales.

    [] Write-in
     
  • Threadmarks
    • Sweet baby Jesus, where to begin?

    Alright, we need an Economy that works well with a Space Faring Civilization.

    Unfortunately, many "Space Faring Civilization" are quite..... merciless.

    We need to have an EXTENSIVE conversational debate for this.
     
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    Yeah, we do. My first bet is on decentralized socialist, because with Kushan manufacturing and resource gathering tech, Glimmer, and probably some of the other tech from settings we'll probably have a post scarcity civ pretty quickly, meaning the biggest issue should be distributing our resources fairly, and by minimizing centralization we can avoid a lot of problems. Particularly I hope being decentralized would help make our economy harder to disrupt by having people die or places get destroyed.
     
    [X] Capitalist Economy

    History and Economy study tell us that Socialist Economy do not work.
     
    [X] Social Liberal Economy - A mixed market economy with a much greater commitment to universal welfare services and public utilities, as well as expansive rights and protections for workers, though still allowing a largely privatized economy. May fall into the same pitfalls as a Capitalist economy over time.
     
    JoeHalo said:
    Sweet baby Jesus, where to begin?

    Alright, we need an Economy that works well with a Space Fairing Civilization.

    Unfortunately, many "Space Fairing Civilization" are quite..... merciless.

    We need to have an EXTENSIVE conversational debate for this.
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    at the tech and scale we work,we are post-scarcity in most areas planned economies (aka,a organization makes a big plan of what must be built and produced and distributes it),works for the most,the usual argument of "socialism doesnt work because people dont coordinate so well" is not aplicable when we got several degrees of AI's,regardless we still got the lag of FTL trave for comms

    tho there still place for market (making,buying and selling stuff without a grand plan behind it)
    so i would say we go mainly for a decentralized (every community has their input on the plan of the economy through voting and discussions allowed to the advanced tech) planned economy

    In the market areas art for example is always subjective,elastic (demand and offer varies wildly) and will always be scarce (an artist can only be a one place at one time,meaning everywhere is a scarcity of their performances),so market logic still applies to it
    market dynamics are also great for developing and uplifting low tech civilization not mature enough for post scarcity planning

    fireknight said:
    [X] Social Liberal Economy - A mixed market economy with a much greater commitment to universal welfare services and public utilities, as well as expansive rights and protections for workers, though still allowing a largely privatized economy. May fall into the same pitfalls as a Capitalist economy over time.
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    [x] Decentralized Socialist Economy - A system in which most civilian capital is subject to public control, mostly in the form of local and regional co-operatives and other community organizations based on democratic governance, with private ownership largely being limited to personal-scale businesses. Ensures broad and highly equitable allocation of capital and resources, but may experience co-ordination problems at larger scales.

    i envision this mostly as
    >AI predicts there will be a need for X amount of minerals and metals
    >people in the community vote and adress how to produce it and get to work along the indications the AI suggest them
    >other stuff is still being bought and sold,usually made by small buisness or small cooperatives
     
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    [X] Decentralized Socialist Economy - A system in which most civilian capital is subject to public control, mostly in the form of local and regional co-operatives and other community organizations based on democratic governance, with private ownership largely being limited to personal-scale businesses. Ensures broad and highly equitable allocation of capital and resources, but may experience co-ordination problems at larger scales.
     
    [] Capitalist Economy - A fairly standard mixed market industrial/service economy, with most non-critical civilian infrastructure and capital being relinquished to private ownership. Initial allocation will be fairly equitable and based on merit. Can allow for dynamic productivity, but will most likely introduce problems of inequality, class conflict, monopolistic pressures, excessive focus on profit, and political influence accrued by the wealthy, unless diligently regulated.

    Socialist Economies don't really work large scale.
     
    [x] Decentralized Socialist Economy - A system in which most civilian capital is subject to public control, mostly in the form of local and regional co-operatives and other community organizations based on democratic governance, with private ownership largely being limited to personal-scale businesses. Ensures broad and highly equitable allocation of capital and resources, but may experience co-ordination problems at larger scales.
     
    [x] Decentralized Socialist Economy - A system in which most civilian capital is subject to public control, mostly in the form of local and regional co-operatives and other community organizations based on democratic governance, with private ownership largely being limited to personal-scale businesses. Ensures broad and highly equitable allocation of capital and resources, but may experience co-ordination problems at larger scales.

    For now, this seems to be the best option.

    If anyone says differently, please provide a reason why.

    REMEMBER! We are a Space Faring Civilization!

    And each Faction has different resources at their disposal.

    For example, the Destiny Faction has Non-Sapient Robots we can use for labor. (For those who don't know, NO I'm not talking about the Exos!)
     
    [] Decentralized Socialist Economy - A system in which most civilian capital is subject to public control, mostly in the form of local and regional co-operatives and other community organizations based on democratic governance, with private ownership largely being limited to personal-scale businesses. Ensures broad and highly equitable allocation of capital and resources, but may experience co-ordination problems at larger scales.

    [] Write in: Mixed Socialist Economy - A hybrid of Decentralized and Centralized Socialist economic systems in which sectors of the economy that see natural monopolies are publicly managed by a governmental administrative body or bodies, while others are managed by non-governmental, democratic organizations or private ownership as described in Decentralized Socialist Economy.

    Considering these. More thoughts tomorrow if the vote is still going.

    EclecticGamer said:
    [] Capitalist Economy - A fairly standard mixed market industrial/service economy, with most non-critical civilian infrastructure and capital being relinquished to private ownership. Initial allocation will be fairly equitable and based on merit. Can allow for dynamic productivity, but will most likely introduce problems of inequality, class conflict, monopolistic pressures, excessive focus on profit, and political influence accrued by the wealthy, unless diligently regulated.

    Socialist Economies don't really work large scale.
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    Totalitarian socialist/communist economies don't work at scale. Or period.

    We've had more successes here and there with market socialism and large worker's cooperatives in the modern day. The Mondragon Corporation comes to mind.

    In any case, I don't think we should risk recreating the latest and greatest of late-stage capitalism when we are trying, explicitly, to be the better polity of the Imperium. At the very least we shouldn't be in the business of manufacturing ammunition for Imperial propagandists.
     
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