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East Africa 1930: An ORBAT Quest

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Dessard said:
I've been assuming the biggest threat in the 30s is Italy
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The issue I see with that is that we are protected by the Japanese, it wouldn't be the same as invading Ethiopia as while yes the Japanese are a fair bit away from immediately helping, they will definitely send a force to protect Reewiin and their precious resources that they are starved for. Also, correct me if wrong but I was under the assumption that the Italians spent a ludicrous amount of money on both the Ethiopian War and the Spanish Civil War, almost bankrupting themselves so I don't really see them trying to even entertain the thought of fighting what would be a long naval war with the Japanese.

Side note, is there a Japanese Navy presence within Reewiin? It could also be a deterrent if of sufficient quality.
 
DegenWeeb said:
The issue I see with that is that we are protected by the Japanese, it wouldn't be the same as invading Ethiopia as while yes the Japanese are a fair bit away from immediately helping, they will definitely send a force to protect Reewiin and their precious resources that they are starved for. Also, correct me if wrong but I was under the assumption that the Italians spent a ludicrous amount of money on both the Ethiopian War and the Spanish Civil War, almost bankrupting themselves so I don't really see them trying to even entertain the thought of fighting what would be a long naval war with the Japanese.
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If Japan's busy in China, they might not be able to respond in time, in which case an Italian annexation could be seen as a fait accompli - we're a small country with very little strategic depth. If Reewiin's coast falls, Japan would need to perform a contested naval landing at the extreme edge of its supply lines against a peer opponent while the Army and the majority of the Navy are stuck elsewhere.
DegenWeeb said:
Side note, is there a Japanese Navy presence within Reewiin? It could also be a deterrent if of sufficient quality.
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There was, temporarily, and it lead to a riot and a loss of an investment point. :p
 
C_Z said:
If Japan's busy in China, they might not be able to respond in time, in which case an Italian annexation could be seen as a fait accompli - we're a small country with very little strategic depth. If Reewiin's coast falls, Japan would need to perform a contested naval landing at the extreme edge of its supply lines against a peer opponent while the Army and the majority of the Navy are stuck elsewhere.
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That is a valid point, however I do believe that the Japanese would not let it go lightly as it'd be a stain on their international prestige. They already humbled the Russians and the Germans, what are the Italians going to do?

Also, if the Japanese Civilian government just gave up on Reewiin, how likely would it be for the army or navy to immediately attempt a coup?
 
OK, here's my plan. The premise is that we focus most of all on army competence from many angles: officer education, troop drills, observation of ongoing wars. A secondary focus will be continuing to fund the Ordinance Office. Lower levels of commitment will go to resolving the Kutulo situation, starting the ball rolling on army expansion late in the plan, and miscellaneous other improvements as we can afford them.

It comes in two versions - one which scraps the Kutulo and one which commits to establishing a small Carabineri naval service to give it to. Personally, I can't decide which is better:

[X] Plan: Army preparedness, no boat
-[X] Reform The Army
--[X] With a focus on training and leadership
--[X] With a focus on artillery and supporting arms, including AA/AT weapons
--[X] Laying the groundwork for, and making a modest beginning to, army expansion
-[X] Resolve the question of the Kutulo
--[X] Removing the guns for future coastal defense use, and scrapping the ship.

[X] Plan: Army preparedness, yes boat
-[X] Reform The Army
--[X] With a focus on training and leadership
--[X] With a focus on artillery and supporting arms, including AA/AT weapons
--[X] Laying the groundwork for, and making a modest beginning to, army expansion
-[X] Resolve the question of the Kutulo
--[X] Establishing a small Carabineri naval service
 
Something to consider is that fighting Japan or Britain navally is basically a losing proposition I don't know sufficient on the Italians to know how a wager against Italy would go.
Force projection wise Ethiopia doesn't have a coast line(Italy took it) so thats negligible unless we are again fighting Italy.
 
[X] Plan: Army preparedness, We Need A Navy
-[X] Reform The Army
--[X] With a focus on training and leadership
--[X] With a focus on artillery and supporting arms, including AA/AT weapons
--[X] Laying the groundwork for, and making a modest beginning to, army expansion
-[X] Resolve the question of the Kutulo
-- [X] By establishing a Navy

Broadly supportive of the plan, just want an actual Navy or at least the core of one to exist.

[X] Plan: Army preparedness, yes boat

Approval voting because it at least tries to make use of the boat.
 
[X] Plan: Army preparedness, yes boat
-[X] Reform The Army
--[X] With a focus on training and leadership
--[X] With a focus on artillery and supporting arms, including AA/AT weapons
--[X] Laying the groundwork for, and making a modest beginning to, army expansion
-[X] Resolve the question of the Kutulo
--[X] Establishing a small Carabineri naval service
It's not yet time to scrap the Kutulo. I'd make changes but at this point I'll just go with the flow.
dreameater said:
Something to consider is that fighting Japan or Britain navally is basically a losing proposition I don't know sufficient on the Italians to know how a wager against Italy would go.
Force projection wise Ethiopia doesn't have a coast line(Italy took it) so thats negligible unless we are again fighting Italy.
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We could fight Japan enough to make it not worth the cost to them. If we have a large number of MTBs to harass and bleed an amphibious force, Japan might decide that it's not worth it (or may decide that after, for example, sending a cruiser and having it be damaged when they need to conserve strength to fight China).
Agreed on the UK though; Britain would absolutely destroy us.
 
[X] Plan: Army preparedness, yes boat
[X] Plan: Army preparedness, We Need A Navy

The point of a Navy is not to win stand up battles with world powers, it's to control our territorial waters and be a pain in the ass, and maybe fight near peers in the future.
 
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Smh you're robbing our Bantu sailors their proper right to sail the seas. Your lack of faith in the proud Carabinieri Naval Service disgusts me.
 
While a navy makes sense for the future, developing it within the Carabineri first seems better for several reasons:

- It is cheaper in points, and we have a lot of higher priorities than spending on the ideal naval organization
- The Carabineri boat service is our only military-ish group with maritime experience
- The Carabineri currently operate our forts and centralized policing, and besides the Kutulo, policing and maybe coastal defense are all that the naval service is going to be doing

Thus, if we want to do nothing except get the Kutulo out to sea to stop it from decaying and making the government look bad, we can do it most cheaply through the Carabineri. If we want to develop the beginnings of a coastal defense force, it still fits within the mission of the Carabineri for the forseeable future.
 
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Actually thinking on it the navy would do rather well against Italy, the Italian navy while competent has garbage force projection in East Africa, its a British lake and they have go through Egypt or go all way around Africa or through Panama to to get their med stuff to East Africa meaning even the British thinking the word NO means their small enclave there get navally dunked.
 
Rat King said:
Are we not going to try and include logistics improvements?

[X] Plan: Army preparedness, yes boat
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We can still do them, but they don't have to be one of our objectives. We might also be able to justify some improvements under the objectives that we've outlined.

What logistics improvements, generally speaking, would you look to do? Since we'll hopefully get a fifth point back before the end of the long term plan (and, hey, possibly a sixth if we further stimulate the economy), we could definitely squeeze some stuff in.
 
The question was not addressed to me but: roads. I think good rural roads are gonna be important for a bunch of things. Besides their utility for maneuvering and supplying the military, I think it's important support for our domestic agriculture. In order to get people out of the agricultural workforce longterm, we need farms to do well and be supported with access to capital (whether that's direct investment or just access to shared infrastructure like roads, processing plants, and retail support). It might not have the same short-term industrial kick as railroads, but I think it has serious long term benefits.
 
Potato Anarchy said:
The question was not addressed to me but: roads. I think good rural roads are gonna be important for a bunch of things. Besides their utility for maneuvering and supplying the military, I think it's important support for our domestic agriculture. In order to get people out of the agricultural workforce longterm, we need farms to do well and be supported with access to capital (whether that's direct investment or just access to shared infrastructure like roads, processing plants, and retail support). It might not have the same short-term industrial kick as railroads, but I think it has serious long term benefits.
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Definitely agreed on rural roads. It's a 6-month project (so not a huge time sink), and I think we could justify it easily under our current goals.

Speaking of agriculture, it's outside of our direct influence but it might be worth considering if we can convince the government to set up a tractor factory at some point. Having mechanized agriculture would free up rural workers, preventing a famine if we suddenly have a huge need for manpower (like a mobilization!). It'd also act as a springboard for things like domestic trucks, artillery tractors, and tankettes.
 
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